okay schlep, lets see if I can address each one of your concerns. I will only address the BML however.
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1. I've seen people spend incredible time and energy making the BML just right, down to every last
milligram of everything, then lose me in practices such as some use bugs and some don't. Some feed
pinkies, others gut loaded crickets, some mealies, and some no bugs at all. No one seems to count the
nutritional content of the bugs if they use them. Also there are different fruits and veggies. Variation
galore. Diversity is good, actually essential. But clearly not all "BML-fed" gliders are fed the exact same
thing. Healthy to be sure, but the
diets we use are not an exact science.
2. Also in nature, there is a tendency for cravings of things deficient in the body, and the intestine can
enhance absorption of that which is short supply. I have confidence in the animal's homeostatic
mechanisms to self-regulate their physiology to a degree. Obviously an animal in captivity has to have the
proper food placed before it. I have less confidence in my own ability to put the right things on the plate,
not from lack of desire, but out of ignorance.
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this is absolutely correct. If you had noticed in almost all my posts regarding the BML, I say the same thing. do NOT modify it, use it as directed, and go back to basics. Many problems people have with their gliders
diet is they are doing many things, modifications that actually affect the balance of the plan, offering far too much of a variety, constantly changing things. Fact is gliders are creatures of habit. They love variety, but too much can overwhelm them, and far too many well meaning people make modifications without taking the "nutritional values" in mind. A lot of people don't take their Natural tastes and instincts into consideration. Some of the biggest things I have noticed that are contradictory to their instincts.
1. feeding during the day (they are nocturnal, they forage for their foods at night)
2. trying to make the food sweeter (most of the things in the wild they eat actually is unpalatable to us humans, the gliders palates are more of a blander taste, (sap, gums, and insects(controversial)they smell of tree bark). and yes I have tasted these items.)
3. Offering too much (their stomachs are only about the size of your thumb nail)
4. Offering too much of a variety (in the wild there choices are very simple, and not as in abundance as what we as humans would consider a smorgasbord.
5. not allocating for normal eating habits (we are not always famished and there are times when we are not as hungry as others)
as for the animals craving things they need, as a general rule that is true, (in the wild they tend to forage on foods not only based on nutritional needs, but also availability) however much like our children, if we offer them candy and cakes and expect them to eat the foods that are healthy, chances are they will eat the unhealthy foods. With the gliders, we have noticed if offered, chicken, corn and fruit juice in abundance, along with healthy foods, they will be more apt to drink the juice eat the chicken and corn, and then if they are hungry, they will eat the healthier foods. so in essence since unlike the wild, since we hand choose their
diet we must try to be at least trying to meet their nutritional needs. They body can not compensate for lack of the proper nutrients, if they are not offered.
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3. Some foods in these "balanced
diets" are eaten while others are passed over. What the gliders take in
and retain is the real issue. I can put a great meal plan on the plate, but if they eat what they like and
leave what they don't, I didn't get the great nutrition in them. So it was with BML. My trash can has
great nutrition. The nutritional analysis would seem to make more sense to me if someone actually did the
accounting of what was left on the plate and subtracted it from the original evening offering. Keep track
of everything that they actually eat. I'm talking total content of every milligram of every bug, each and
every day, and for each individual glider.
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This is true in theory, however just as you would take a group of health conscience people and they may try as they may to stay on lets say a 1200 calorie
diet on a day by day basis, there will be fluctuations. just as each persons daily activity also affects how much of a caloric intake is needed on a daily basis. Then you have those with higher metabolisms, those that have problems with certain nutrients.. etc.. the gliders are living in a regulated environment where in the wild they could forage for their needs. In the various seasons, they also eat different staples. more so based again not just on nutritional needs but also availability and activity. In the wild they go into torpor during the cold winter months, where they actually drop their own metabolisms, and sleep more, eat less. But in the wild they prepare for this. (hence the cleavage that is very prominent more so in the fall and winter).
the problem with using the various papers and studies done in the wild is just that, availability, and seasonal. many factors that even we as humans haven't got to a science yet.
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4. Along the same line, does anyone separate your gliders at mealtime? As a social animal they should
remain in their colony. But I've often wondered which one of the boys ate what in the middle of the night.
Maybe Mario gobbled more of the phosphorus load, while Luigi went for the calcium rich foods. Same
question for protein. Ditto for the sweets. Who ate what? I clearly have not assured that each one got
what he individually needed. In the wild might one glider prefer certain saps, while another likes bugs
better?
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again this more of a captive difference and concern, a concern that we have always kept in mind. Originally the leadbeaters
diet was designed for 1 tablespoon for 2 gliders, with the addition of the fruits and veggies. We increased this and it is stated on the bml site that there should always be some left over, that way each one in the cage also has access to the same foods. Nutritionally, we can not force feed the gliders, but we can offer them a nutritional sound
diet. If the
diet is nutritionally sound, their own bodies will pick and choose based on their individual needs. hence why the majority of the nutrients are in the mix of the bml, combined to avoid the risks of picking out just the proteins, and just the certain vits and minerals.
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5. The effort of comparing other
diets to BML to evaluate content or nutritional value is an interesting
endeavor. No glider in the wild eats BML. Shouldn't we compare other proposed
diets to wild
diets? Do
gliders in Australia eat the same nutrients in the same amounts as those in Indonesia? Does one colony in
the wild eat the same stuff that another colony 200 miles away eats where the terrain and foliage are
different? Is there not room in Gliderdom for the same variation that lets Italians eat pasta, Irishmen eat
potatoes, and Chinese eat rice without necessarily causing harm? The issue is the quantity and quality of
nutrition in the noodles, spuds and rice. These last two points make it hard for me to be so sure of myself
when criticizing anyone's
diet.
6. In creating
diets, we are trying to achieve a specific amount of certain nutrients and vitamins. How do
we propose to know the required daily values for vitamins and minerals in all species? We have expert
opinion and educated guesses and not enough true science proven by randomized, prospective, double
blinded, controlled trials. From where do these targets herald? It seems the only reasonable way to set
targets is to measure the vitamin, mineral and nutrient content of a wild
diet and try to emulate it. That
diet is truly proven. It got gliders here over the millennia. I'm not only concerned about what we don't
know in Pricilla's
diet, but also about the limiting assumptions we make concerning what we think is
correct. People were once sure the world was flat and that low-fat
diets were good for humans.
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Understanding the concern here, sadly I have already addressed this many times, however more in defense of those that are out to prove the BML harmful, rather than really wanting to know.
The BML when we first started working with it, we were very limited as to the information and resources available regarding their nutritional needs. so the work in finding a healthy
diet was very ,very difficult. The
diet in the wild and taken into consideration the varied areas, varied seasons, and the total nutritional values that were already known, not only published, but through many emails and correspondence with many rehabbers, sanctuaries, etc.. the first goal was to get a nutritional breakdown of the varied
diets, both in the wild as well as in captivity in Australia, there is little to NO information in the new guinea area where more of our gliders originate from, We had to get a high and low of each nutrient, and see if we couldn't find things here to fall into those highs and lows. This is how it started.. that doesn't mean that is where it stopped. Because now we had those figures for the Australian gliders, but how did they all fit together when we try to make a
diet here that is just as nutritional when we don't have access to the natural floras and faunas, thus different nutrient values as well. Then things had to be considered.
1. ambient temperatures
2. reduced activity level
3. foraging activity
4. controlled reduced living space
as an example the gliders in the wild has a higher fat adipose than the gliders in captivity. the reasons are simple, they have cooler nights and falls and winters, they live outside, their foods are limited in supply at times. when we control their temps, they have little to no need for the extra fat for warmth, since we offer them food each night, they don't need the extra storage of nutrients. etc..
so after we get a basic baseline to accommodate the needs in captivity, then we have to look at availability of certain foods. I see people ordering acacia gum, but many of them don't even know what species it is that gliders eat, as they do not eat all of them, and some of them are actually
toxic. there are many misconceptions regarding eucalyptus, acacia gums and nectars. Then we have to look at necropsies, illnesses, and structures of gliders on many of the
diets, we tried to address the many issues that were prominent at the time. since they haven't been here in the states very long, there really was very little "research" or data collection actually being done by
vets or the average owner.
In Australia they don't have many of the problems that we here in the states have faced.
1.aflatoxin
2. calcium deficiency
3. various bacteria's
4. viruses
5.depression
6.lonliness
7. genetic defects caused by line breeding/inbreeding
8. mass
breeders As for the wild vs the gliders in captivity, there really is a huge difference, we can not replicate the wild, lifestyle, environment and
diet, however we can do the best we can in trying to offer them a nutritionally balanced
diet that accommodates our gliders in captivity here in the states.
I too am concerned with the various
diets that the nutritional value can not be compared. The many studies that are needed are quite expensive, but as you had said, they once believe the world was flat, but there was also those that didn't, and who was willing to study and test and be sure of their beliefs.
The glider research is much needed, especially here in the states, the GRF is only touching the cold areas, haven't quite reached the iceberg yet, but that will come with time, people believe that a study or 2 will answer all their concerns, and it will not, the research must continue, and each time a research study is done, we will learn from it, but keep in mind we won't have all the answers for many, many years, but al least it moves us closer to where we need to be. One of the key things about the BML, is that we are not afraid to make changes based on research, The BML is nutritionally balanced (when fed as directed) based on what is known about sugar gliders to date.
everyone who owns a glider should help the grf, in the long run, it is their gliders that will reap the rewards.
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8. And one last observation, why would one care whether the label says Reptile vitamins or Mammalian
vitamins? Isn't the issue the number of milligrams of a particular ingredient present, and is that number of
milligrams adequate for the critter in question? And how do I measure BML against Pricilla's or Brisky's if I
don't know what the goal should be. My biggest source of frustration is not knowing what is the true
Minimum Daily Requirement. The human MDR's are pretty weak in my opinion, despite lots of research. Has
anyone ever analyzed the content of the various vitamins in the wild
diet?
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up till now I have given facts, what I haven't done is offer very many of my opinions, this paragraph, warrants just that.
granted just as billions and billions of dollars have gone into human research, and there isn't any definitive figures, the same applies with the gliders, however; just as in the human figures, you have highs and lows, example we know that a deficiency of calcium can cause rickets, we also know that a lack of calcium causes hlp. so there really is a basic baseline that has allowed us to witness healing properties, bone density, longer life spans, etc.
Now as to how would compare the various
diets when the baseline isn't set, well that isn't where the real problem is. The real problem is in not being able to get the nutritional breakdown of those
diets. People ask me all the time what the figures are for the BML, needless to say they have been posted many, many times. what I have NEVER seen is the nutritional breakdown of any of the other
diets. so in essence what are you comparing? The BML has been tested to be nutritionally balanced when fed as directed for as much as we know, well, I guess that would be a baseline (depending on how you look at it) but NO other
diet has EVER revealed the nutritional breakdown for anyone to compare them. So the start would be with the
diet you are using, hypothetically, lets say I was to have all of the figures needed. and you wanted them , I sent them to you, what would you do with them? compare them to the
diet you are using? get those figures first. IF you are able to, this has been one of the biggest problems with us trying to figure out healthy alternatives to the owners whose gliders will not eat the BML. We know there are gliders out there that won't eat it, so when we are asked for healthy alternatives, where do we send people? Do we send them on a hope and a prayer that the
diet they will be using is "hopefully" nutritionally balanced? Until I can see for myself that a
diet is healthy, I will never recommend it. everyone’s glider is as important to me as they are to them.
There are many
diets out there, some may be healthy, others are obviously not, without nutritional breakdown, we can't even make a remotely educated decision. This is where I say that people play Russian roulette with their glider's life. OFTEN turned around to mean "your gliders will die if not on BML" that is NOT the case, all I know is that the BML is healthy, but I also know that nutritionally it is sound, it has been tested and falls within the various baselines. I know the bml is a healthy choice. But I can not say the same about many other
diets out there. with no one being able to check for themselves how healthy their
diet is, regardless of which baseline they use, it is like playing Russian roulette. Lets say you decide you want to create your own
diet, you also do your own search for your baseline, using whatever methods and
diets you choose. wouldn't you also want to be sure that it is balanced?
sadly there isn't enough guidelines/requirements that regulate pet foods/vitamins. Therefore if the creators do not want to reveal or can not reveal what is in their product, they don't have to. The BML gets the most flack, because it IS the only
diet plan out there that the nutritional figures can be seen, checked, and compared. BUT it also continues to stand on it's own.
I hope that I have answered your questions,