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HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? #1163482
08/19/11 12:39 PM
08/19/11 12:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
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B3N Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
I'm seeing this pop up more and more. What's the difference from the original HPW?

Has all the complications that came with the Blended diet been resolved? I saw the thread about it yesterday and was considering diets so I wanted to know what's up?


Benjamin K.
Suggie Lover

"Even the dawn has trouble hiding the stars; shine for all you're worth." - Me

"My Patronus is a Sugar Glider!" - Me

"Step one is moving. It doesn't really matter how you move. What matters is that you do." - Unknown
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163498
08/19/11 01:21 PM
08/19/11 01:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
josefine Offline
Glider Addict
josefine  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
You probably will need to go to both Peggy's(SRLB), & Candy's acct's.,& speak w/both of them.You could PM both of them in the same one,& have a 3 way conversation.They both feel their own diet is the best.
Peggy claims that Candy's calculations aren't @ 100%,but Candy feels that even if your younguns don't eat their meal,that if they just ate the diet,they would be getting all the nutrients needed.
Peggy's,for sure,is alot easier to make.


Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163505
08/19/11 01:39 PM
08/19/11 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict
MissSarah  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
I don't believe theres such thing as a "best" diet. It could be the most awesome, out of sight, super nutritious diet out there, but if your suggies won't eat it, its useless.

I know there are several people here that have strong negative feelings about the blended diet, but I know that theres also many that have fed it for a while and have had no incidents.

I'm not sure of the differences between Peggy's original HPW and the blended diet are. I would forward any questions about that to Peggy. Her email address can be found on her website which is HPWPlus.com.

Now, what I can tell you is my personal experience. I use Peggy's HPW Complete and I absolutely love it. I get clean plates every night and my glider's coats look full and plush.
Also, it used to be anytime I got into the tent with my gliders, my eyes would swell together. My allergies were awful. After switching to HPW Complete for a significant amount of time, I can get in the tent and enjoy my babies again without looking like the elephant man when it's over! lol

I would most definitely email Peggy (and Candy too, for that matter) and discuss any questions you may have with them. thumb

Last edited by MissSarah; 08/19/11 01:40 PM.

Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163519
08/19/11 02:10 PM
08/19/11 02:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
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B3N  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
I looked on the website and maybe I'm seeing something wrong but it states that the protein in the HPW Complete is 14% whereas the HPW Plus is 54%?

Is this a typo?

Read the faqs, nevermind on the above statement.

Last edited by B3N; 08/19/11 02:19 PM.

Benjamin K.
Suggie Lover

"Even the dawn has trouble hiding the stars; shine for all you're worth." - Me

"My Patronus is a Sugar Glider!" - Me

"Step one is moving. It doesn't really matter how you move. What matters is that you do." - Unknown
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163526
08/19/11 02:19 PM
08/19/11 02:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
[quote]Peggy claims that Candy's calculations aren't @ 100%,but Candy feels that even if your younguns don't eat their meal,that if they just ate the diet,they would be getting all the nutrients needed.[quote]

I have never claimed that eating only the Blended diet, or any other diet alone, will provide all the nutrients your gliders need. Offering a wide variety of fruits and vegetables along with the Blended diet mixture is a key part of the diet. Each fruit and vegetable contains vitamins and minerals that are needed for balanced nutrition. Each one has some elements that they are rich in and others that they are poor in so offering a wide variety creates a better balance than offering only a few choices. I have expressed my concerns about the relish recipes that rely heavily on Bok Choi and Papaya. No single fruit or vegetable should be over 50% of the fruits and vegetables offered in the overall diet.

As for the "complications" with the Blended diet I will say that I have not recommended any changes to the Blended diet based on the few individuals that felt their gliders did not do well on it. The very few individuals claiming that the Blended diet caused problems have not chosen to discuss their concerns directly with me. I will be happy to discuss it with them. I have had many more individuals tell me their gliders are healthy and thriving on the Blended diet than I have had individuals expressing concerns.

It is difficult to recommend changes when I have not seen any of the problems they have observed with my own gliders who have been fed the Blended diet for over 2 1/2 years. Those that have concerns are welcome to share their observations with me an engage in a discussion including factors in addition to diet that may contribute to what they are seeing.

Blame has been pointed at many glider diets from time to time. Original HPW has been associated with concerns about low calcium to phosphorus ratio of the mix and difficulty choosing fruits and vegetables to increase that ratio. BML has been discussed in relation to liver problems found at necropsy with a number of gliders. Those observations and concerns do not make them bad diets.

The Blended diet is a recipe that I wrote to meet the nutritional needs of my gliders. It is not a combination of other diets, but it does use ingredients that are used in several other glider diets.

As for my diet calculator - it simply does the math for you. If you wish to calculate the amounts of calcium, phosphorus and the ratio for combinations of foods then the calculator has been shared to help you do the calculations. At the request of Peggy and Bourbon, I did delete the calculated values for their diets. This makes the calculator less useful if you want to calculate the full meals you present your gliders, but you can still calculate the ratio for combinations of fruits and vegetables if you choose to do that. Peggy chose not to share the amounts of sugar, protein, calcium, phosphorus, fat and fiber in the HPW Plus and HPW Complete powders so I am unable to include those in the calculator for others to do their own calculations of fruits and vegetables with those diets.

The Blended diet is a choice. Some people do not feel it is good for their gliders. I can say the same for other diets that I do not feel is right choice for my gliders.

I believe, all of the recognized glider diets have their advantages and disadvantages. The all provide the nutrition gliders need. As owners we all have preferences - some want to feed less honey, some want simplicity of preparation and storage, some simply look for the least costly diet. All personal opinions and choices that go into choosing a diet for our gliders. HPW Complete is by far the simplest to prepare, add water only. Priscilla's I feel makes way to much food using the posted recipe for me to store in my smallish freezer. It is not a bad diet, just not one I choose to feed. BML has the longest period of time being used by many individuals. Unfortunately, my gliders will not eat anything with the repcal calcium so it was not the right diet for me.


B3N - The difference between the Original HPW diet and HPW Plus is the main ingredient in each. Original HPW uses Wombaroo High Protein Supplement which is imported from Australia. The same powder is used in the Blended diet to provide vitamins, minerals and part of the calcium and protein and other nutrients. HPW Plus is a new product developed and marketed by Peggy Brewer. This product is made in the US and is prepared very much like the original HPW diet (which she also developed.) HPW Complete, also developed and marketed by Peggy, contains dried honey, dried egg and bee pollen so it requires water only to prepare the mix.

The choice of a diet for your glider depends on which one you feel most comfortable making for your gliders after considering the availability of supplements, other ingredients, ease of preparation and serving. Review all of the recipes and the recommendations for additional fruits and vegetables to accompany each diet and choose the one you feel is best for you and your gliders.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163533
08/19/11 02:41 PM
08/19/11 02:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
I'm seeing this pop up more and more. What's the difference from the original HPW?


The difference between the three??

The Original Wombaroo High Protein Supplement is not a 2:1 Ca:P ratio and one has to wait for the arrival by boat to arrive in the USA. This diet needs to be mixed with eggs, honey, bee pollen and water (Green Juice optional)Please no matter what you hear, DO NOT add additional Calcium. If the fruits and vegetables are fed in a variety and in moderation, the diet WILL balance itself out over time and your gliders will be healthy.

The HPW Plus IS a 2:1 Ca:P ratio therefore allowing folks to not worry about this as much. It also contains flaxseed in the mix along with smelling like sweet Vanilla and the gliders love and thrive off of it. You also need to add this powder to eggs, honey, bee pollen water (Green Juice is optional)

The HPW Complete IS a 2:1 ratio as well. Again allowing folks to be more at ease when feeding. It also contains flaxseed in the mix along with smelling like sweet Vanilla and the gliders love and thrive off of it.
With the HPW Complete all you add is Water (and Green Juice if you so wish).

All three diets are WONDERFUL diets and have all show great success in sugar glider healths and happiness when followed as directed.

It is only when folks feel the need to add addtional calcium and or vitamins to the mix that health issues begin to arise.

Sugar gliders that are on the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete have shown to have healthier, more plush coats, fuller tails and the joeys that come OOP are larger and healthier.

To view some of the testimonials please view the testimonial page http://hpwplus.com/testimonials/testimonials.htm and also feel free to ask those here and on other boards how they personally feel about the Plus and Complete diet.

Benjamin if you have any other questions about the HPW Plus or the HPW Complete diets, please feel free to contact me at critterlove@critterlove.com

I would also like to include that the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete are indeed veterinarian Approved and Recommended diet plans. :-)


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Srlb] #1163600
08/19/11 05:26 PM
08/19/11 05:26 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
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Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Quote:

All three diets are WONDERFUL diets and have all show great success in sugar glider healths and happiness when followed as directed.


Peggy I am sure was referring to the ..
hpw, hpw plus and the hpw complete

the blended diet is a combination of the HPW and the BML diet BLENDED together.

it has an awful lot of variations so there is nothing that is really consistent about the diet itself. even on her site there are variations of the mix alone. The problems associated with the blended can not be addressed due to the multiple variations and variables within the diet plan itself.. after all.. where do you start if there is no consistency.

there are also inaccurate calculations with the BML figures on her site.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Bourbon] #1163616
08/19/11 06:05 PM
08/19/11 06:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Peggy I am sure was referring to the ..
hpw, hpw plus and the hpw complete


Bourbon is correct and I am sorry if I lead anyone to any confusion.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163621
08/19/11 06:16 PM
08/19/11 06:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Bourbon wrote:
Quote:
there are also inaccurate calculations with the BML figures on her site.


The BML diet was removed from the diet calculator months ago at your request.

Quote:
the blended diet is a combination of the HPW and the BML diet BLENDED together.



The Blended diet was never intended to be a mixture of any other diets. It is similar to other diets in the same way my lemon cookie recipe is much like my vanilla cookie recipe. Sugar, butter, flour, baking powder in different amounts, mixed the same but the flavorings are a little different.

The Blended diet does share ingredients used in BML, HPW, and other glider diets. It is a recipe I developed after comparisons of a number of diets for the amounts of calcium, phosphorus, sugar, protein, fat and fiber contained in those diets. Once I determined the upper range amounts and the lower range amounts of calcium phosphorus, sugar, protein fat and fiber in those diets, I selected foods in amounts that make a diet that contains a mid range amount for each of those components.

As with all glider diets (check the poll at the top of the forum for a list) not all glider diets become ones that others choose for their gliders. diets that do not meet the needs of glider parents other than the individual that developed the diet - are just not used by others.

If no one chooses to use the Blended diet for what ever their reasons, I am fine with that. I do not market the diet. I do not send out free samples to get people to try it. I do not derive any income from the Blended diet. I do not solicit others to write "letters of support" for the Blended diet. I am not selling it wholesale to others to sell for me.

It is threads such as this one that generate attention for the Blended diet. I will respond to questions when asked but I would prefer that I be allowed to simply answer questions asked and that I not have each question about the Blended diet turned into an attack. I have not initiated a thread about the Blended diet in over a year.

The Blended diet is a recipe, using ingredients found in many other glider diets. Any one is free to choose the glider diet that works best for their gliders.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163626
08/19/11 06:35 PM
08/19/11 06:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: OtteMom
It is difficult to recommend changes when I have not seen any of the problems they have observed with my own gliders who have been fed the Blended diet for over 2 1/2 years. Those that have concerns are welcome to share their observations with me an engage in a discussion including factors in addition to diet that may contribute to what they are seeing.


So what you are saying here is that if you do not experience problems in your gliders you'll have difficulty recommending changes?? If you are going to present a diet to the public to feed (whether you are profiting off of it or not), you have to expect that some gliders won't respond to it the same way yours have; and you, as the creator, have to be able to recommend changes even if you haven't "seen" them.

Originally Posted By: BN3
Has all the complications that came with the Blended diet been resolved? I saw the thread about it yesterday and was considering diets so I wanted to know what's up?


There have been concerns brought to your attention, but I haven't seen much for the discussion factor. I think that was what the OP wanted to know.

ETA: Just seen your post above, and wanted to let you know that my intentions are not meant as an attack in any way. smile

Last edited by GliderNursery; 08/19/11 06:36 PM. Reason: added comment

Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163636
08/19/11 06:46 PM
08/19/11 06:46 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
I have fed both diets you are looking into. With the blended diet i started off fine. My gliders seemed to like it and my joeys were doing well. After about 5 months i started seeing that my gliders were loosing weight. The few that were showing this were loosing more then i was comfy with. At this time other people had been seeing trouble with there gliders and this diet so i choose to switch back to the hpw diet as i did not want to see if anymore trouble would come of this diet.

I have seen no trouble on the hpw diet nore the bml diet which i have also fed. My gliders showed no trouble with the bml at all. I like these 2 diets and think these would be a great start for you and your future gliders.

I can not tell you a diff in the hpw, plus or complete. I have mainly fed the org hpw.

Hope this is of some help!

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: GliderNursery] #1163639
08/19/11 06:48 PM
08/19/11 06:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer
Jos  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
I'm gonna have to speak up.

Changes cannot be made to ANY diet if the creator is not made AWARE of the problems people have BEFORE people go off their rocker. This is not a "Bash the Blended diet" thread, lets keep things neutral and not get into an argument like the last thread on this I saw.

I feed Blended, not because of any reason other then MY gliders do well on it. They clean their plates and eat all their fruits and veggies. They didn't do that on HPW (they'd eat about half, and none of their fruits/veggies), and they refused to touch BML for whatever reason sugar gliders have for not eating something. If something medical came up because of diet then I would have my vet give me information as to what the nutritional details were and I'd give it to Candy so she could see if any adjustments based on vet findings needed to be made.

So keep it civil guys. We're adults here.


Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: CandyOtte] #1163645
08/19/11 07:00 PM
08/19/11 07:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
The Blended Diet was never intended to be a mixture of any other diets.


Candy, when you spoke to me about it way back when, when you were first *Coming out* with it, you wrote me and you told me it is between BML and HPW and that is one of the reasons you called it The Blended diet.

But really it does not matter what you call it or what ingredients are in it, what matters is if it is healthy for a glider to THRIVE on.

What matters is as a CREATOR of a diet, if anyone comes to you and states a concern, you should act upon that concern by discussing the matter with your veterinarian and/or Nutritionist you worked on when coming up with the diet plan to make sure nothing is to be alarmed about.

I personally did NOT say ANYTHING at all about The Blended diet here but since you feel the need to make it sound like a bad thing for me to do by saying:

Quote:
I do not market the diet. I do not send out free samples to get people to try it. I do not derive any income from the Blended Diet. I do not solicit others to write "letters of support" for the Blended Diet. I am not selling it wholesale to others to sell for me.


And it can only be assumed you are speaking of me and these are things I do, I feel a need to come in as well.

YES, I DO send out free samples. Why? Because no matter how good a diet is not every glider is going to eat it. Why should I make people buy a large bag just to find out their gliders wont eat it? But because I am CONFIDENT that gliders will like it, I offer it.

Yes, I DO market my food, why? Because I am CONFIDENT that it is a healthy and good diet for gliders to THRIVE on. And why am I sure about that? Because I work with veterinarians and Animal Nutritionist to make sure that it is. I have testings done and we make sure that the glider is going to do more than just survive.

Letters of Support? NO. They are called TESTIMONIAL letters.

And why do I have them....again because I am PROUD of the way the gliders that consume the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete diets Thrive and look and how HEALTHY they are on them. Look how LARGE the joeys are that come OOP, look at the TAILS and coats in those gliders that consume the HPW Plus and the HPW Complete!! I take pride in that. It was a lot of hard work and not just some ingredients and recipes we put on a piece of paper and threw together.
Wholesalers?? Yep, I DO have LOTS of them and you know what? They sell lots of food!! Including overseas in Malaysi and South Africa and those gliders are thriving as well.

When I had ONE customer come to me with concerns, I took it IMMEDIATELY to the vets and Nutritionist and worked with the person who had concerns. Her gliders are fine and healthy on the HPW diet plans now.

So, NO, I feel NO shame at all marketing a GOOD, HEALTHY diet for gliders.

Quote:
If you are going to present a diet to the public to feed (whether you are profiting off of it or not), you have to expect that some gliders won't respond to it the same way yours have; and you, as the creator, have to be able to recommend changes even if you haven't "seen" them.


Shelly, I couldnt agree more.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Jos] #1163647
08/19/11 07:02 PM
08/19/11 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
fox0r Offline
Glider Guardian
fox0r  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,061
Meridian, ID
Originally Posted By: Jos
Changes cannot be made to ANY diet if the creator is not made AWARE of the problems people have BEFORE people go off their rocker.


I think posting on a public form where creator of said diet is an active member is making them more than aware of the situation. Especially when the topic has been brought up more than once. IMO, anyway.


-Jen

Sugar Mountain - Sugar gliders in Idaho!
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: fox0r] #1163681
08/19/11 07:49 PM
08/19/11 07:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer
Jos  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
The original thread was admitted that it was not brought to Candy first, in fact, she didn't find out anything about it until it was 4-5 pages in.

Again.

diet bashing is against the rules. A newbie came with a question and it has turned into that thread all over.

I think this discussion needs to end.


Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163705
08/19/11 08:53 PM
08/19/11 08:53 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
Jos,

at what point is it ok for us to talk about diets? It seems unless we are praising a diet it is banned. Where is it ok to bring up the probs of a diet so that people can be aware of things to look for. Or how to make it better? How are we to know how to make a diet better if we cant talk about the good and bad in a diet? I for one would be very upset if i found out gliders were sick or passing and the cause could be a diet and i was not made aware of this and my gliders were on that diet. I do not bash people nore do i like to see a person bashed but if there are probs in a diet that are affecting gliders it needs to be talked about.

Ben,

this forum is full of great info and people. You will find lots of info and advise. My advice to you is to research each diet and make sure its what YOU want to feed and feel is best for your gliders. Then and only then can you know its the right diet. I comend you for doing your reasearch!

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163716
08/19/11 09:16 PM
08/19/11 09:16 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Quote:
I'm seeing this pop up more and more.


Ben the reason for this is simple.. it will keep coming up until the problems are addressed and still haven't been, even if she was not aware of the problems till 4 or 5 days in on the last thread, she has had plenty of time to address them since then. The people who had/has the problems post about them, so she knows who they are and how to reach them.

BTW Ben .....Welcome Back !!!

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ssdreamsicles] #1163720
08/19/11 09:26 PM
08/19/11 09:26 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Originally Posted By: B3N
Has all the complications that came with the Blended diet been resolved?
In a word, no. Here are two recent threads with Blended diet concerns:
Thread 1

Thread 2

Originally Posted By: OtteMom
As for the "complications" with the Blended diet I will say that I have not recommended any changes to the Blended diet based on the few individuals that felt their gliders did not do well on it. The very few individuals claiming that the Blended diet caused problems have not chosen to discuss their concerns directly with me.
I, for one, have expressed my concerns. I had an 11-month old glider die, with malnutrition as one of the primary causes on the necropsy. I had two gliders develop HLP. All three of these gliders were born here, and were relatively young. They have made a remarkable recovery since being switched to BML, and diligent vet care/treatment.

Are there any bloodwork results available showing how well all of these gliders on the Blended diet are doing? Could there be one version of the diet that is showing better results? If so, which one?

Originally Posted By: Jos
Changes cannot be made to ANY diet if the creator is not made AWARE of the problems people have BEFORE people go off their rocker.

I feed Blended, not because of any reason other then MY gliders do well on it.
I am truly happy that your gliders are doing well on their diet Jos. This is a valid discussion in response to the OP about “complications with the Blended diet”. The creator WAS made aware of the problems. Many of us have yet to see any kind of resolution or acknowledgement that there may even be a problem. That is the part that concerns me.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163732
08/19/11 09:38 PM
08/19/11 09:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer
JeremysDad  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
I got my first 2 gliders from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets:( After realizing the pellets they sold for them was [censored] within a week and turning my babies orange, I switched to the Ensure diet.

I did more research and found Priscilla's diet. My babies hated it. I tried everything. Blending, chopping, different veggies etc. If your gliders won't it, then it's not a great choice. But when you pick a diet, give them time.

I feed candy's now. I have no issues with it all, all though my gliders have no been eating well due to the heat wave etc... I like that candy's has a natural human supplement (they are not lizards LOL) and most of the ingredients I can easily get at the store.


Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163733
08/19/11 09:38 PM
08/19/11 09:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 191
Kentucky
StellaLuna Offline
Glider Explorer
StellaLuna  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 191
Kentucky
Ben,
When I first got my gliders I put them on the blended diet, they ate it very well, always cleaned their plate, but after several months I notice that they had a yellowish tint in their fur and their tails were much thinner. I consulted my vet and moved them over to HPW. Over the next month their color changed dramatically, they are very fluffy, soft, with full tails and have white underbellies. My boyfriend also just 2 months ago got 4 gliders that had been on the blended diet, and they had the same yellow tint, they were put straight on HPW and their activity level has dramatically increased and their color is already much improved. I know blended might have worked for others, but it didn't work with my gliders, mine eat the HPW complete just as well, and look 1000% better.


Kimberly
10 gliders
Stella, Little foot, Ducky, Nox, Lupin :grey:
Tonks :plat:
Pip :leu:
Squeak, Petrie, Spike :rtmo:
1 Brazilian rainbow boa
1 Queen Bee Ball Python
1 leopard Geckos, Spike
3 Cats, Booger Ollie and Padfoot
1 wonderful amazing supportive fiance
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163737
08/19/11 09:40 PM
08/19/11 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i also believe that if someone creates a diet and there
are problems that have been made aware re: this diet, it
should be addressed.

it is not bashing to mention there are problems with a
diet as everyone of us that own gliders need to know abt.
these problems which helps us decide for ourselves what
diet we will feed.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1163781
08/19/11 11:00 PM
08/19/11 11:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,979
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,979
Wisconsin
I fed BML when I got my first glider. Gizmo hated it, Zoey and Widget picked at it. So I switched to HPW (original), they ate that better than they did the BML.

When Candy's Blended diet came out I decided to give it a try as I liked the fact that it had a 2:1 Calcium:Phos ratio. They cleaned up everything. I would say that my gliders were on the blended diet for over a year.

Peggy debuted her HPW Plus and HPW Complete, posting pictures of her gliders. Other people that were feeding the new HPW diets posted pictures of their gliders also. I couldn't get over how thick their fur was, especially their tails.

I made the decision to switch to HPW Plus and I am glad that I did. My glider's fur has changed dramatically, their tails are incredible.

The best part of the new HPW Plus and HPW Complete, Gizmo gained weight! She was always what I would call thin, granted she puts the miles on in the wheel. I worried about her not gaining weight. There is no fighting over food in my cages I have enough dishes out, so she was getting a chance to eat.

I noticed her gaining weight about a month into feeding the new HPW. HPW Plus and HPW Complete are great products, Peggy has put a lot of time and energy into making a product that is safe and healthy for our gliders. She is also doing blood work on her gliders to see what the long term results are on her product.

I am glad that I made the switch to HPW Plus and HPW Complete.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ssdreamsicles] #1163883
08/20/11 05:35 AM
08/20/11 05:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: ssdreamsicles
Jos,

at what point is it ok for us to talk about diets? It seems unless we are praising a diet it is banned. Where is it ok to bring up the probs of a diet so that people can be aware of things to look for. Or how to make it better? How are we to know how to make a diet better if we cant talk about the good and bad in a diet? I for one would be very upset if i found out gliders were sick or passing and the cause could be a diet and i was not made aware of this and my gliders were on that diet. I do not bash people nore do i like to see a person bashed but if there are probs in a diet that are affecting gliders it needs to be talked about.

Ben,

this forum is full of great info and people. You will find lots of info and advise. My advice to you is to research each diet and make sure its what YOU want to feed and feel is best for your gliders. Then and only then can you know its the right diet. I comend you for doing your reasearch!


Nice points! As a fellow glider worshiper and also someone who has looked at creating my own diet, I fully understand where everyone is coming from in discussions like this. There is a very thin line between discussing issues with a diet, and then turning it into a personal attack.

First of all let us leave all innuendos OFF the board, take those up in private please. And not PM's either.

STATE FACTS or ask direct questions. Some examples of what I mean:
"I dont have people selling for me" is an innuendo that the person who DOES have someone selling knows you are indirectly pointing at them. And this makes people defensive.
But so are statements that insinuate the creator of a diet doesnt care about how gliders do on their diet.

There are always different ways to say things to not appear as attacking. For example: see the difference here if I say "Hey diet creator, your diet is killing gliders what are you doing about it" or put it this way "I know you researched while designing this diet, but I have some concerns. How long have your gliders had it. Have you had bloodwork done or had a vet look at it?"

I understand fully how hard it is to leave emotions and personal issues off the board, but this is a subject that does need to be discussed. But if everyone does not play nice, this thread will be removed and the only ones who will suffer are the SUGAR GLIDERS!

So I want to remind EVEYONE of
Originally Posted By: Board Rules
4. GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented "G" rated board. Be polite, courteous and respectful to other board members at all times. This means illegal substances, illegal activities, flaming, sexually explicit subjects, cursing, spamming, harassing, policing, diet bashing, and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Please keep any personal matters off the board. Take it to email or pm. Please keep in mind that board rules do apply when using the PM feature.


As for the original poster's concerns, here is my thinking:

Make the diet that is easiest for you, but that your gliders LIKE!

Here's my diet history:
Pellets and fruit/veggies. Looked good and smelled good.
BML. they got fat. Real fat. Had some concerns over the reptile vitamins and started research on alternatives.
Made my own recipe.
changed it over and over based on what I saw in my gliders or new information became available to me.
Gliders looked GREAT!
then I made a change somewhere and I noticed they looked a little more crackly than I wanted.
Decided to give HPW Plus a try.
My boys love it and look great.
My girls did not love it.
working with Peggy we tried different things, but they never seemed to work for more than a few days. Picky gits!
So no matter how good I think HPW is, I cant feed it to them as they wont EAT it. I beleive its the honey. Too much and my girls turn their noses up. I actually have a taste test video showing Arwen's preference for maple syrup over honey. So I went back to my diet with a few tweaks here and there. Do I advise anyone to use my diet? NO because I am not done thinking about. I think there are still a few things that need to be addressed but I do have it up for others to see ONLY because I got tired of people asking me what I feed.

the point, BML, Peggy's HPW line, Priscilla's, Candy's are all good diets if THEY WORK FOR YOU. Unfortunately since we all feed our own little mix of fruits and veggies, it is hard to pinpoint any issues. Good Lord, nutrients can vary form papaya to papaya depending on the conditions it was grown and stored!!!

So, follow a diet AS WRITTEN, and if it doesnt work for you, change to another diet. BUT POLITELY tell the maker of that diet WHAT happened with using their diet so they know. NOT "your diet killed my glider" but "do you think the diet was the cause?" BUT HONESTLY I feel if a diet killed a glider, the owner of that glider should have seen some telltale signs FIRST, taken their glider to a vet for an exam and bloodwork, and than maybe switched diets.

So you have all been gently reminded to play nice in the sandbox please.

REMEMBER WE ARE ABOUT THE BETTERMENT OF GLIDER CARE!

Last edited by JillMarie; 08/20/11 05:39 AM. Reason: typos

:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Srlb] #1163919
08/20/11 09:57 AM
08/20/11 09:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 127
keokuk, iowa
C
crazyk Offline
Joey Member
crazyk  Offline
Joey Member
C

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 127
keokuk, iowa
Hi Peggy, I feed the hpw and I am thinking about switching to the hpw complete. How long has the hpw complete been tested? I am confused on what would be better for my gliders. I want to do the best for them and just would like more info. Thanks a bunch!

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: crazyk] #1163989
08/20/11 01:59 PM
08/20/11 01:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Crazyk, the HPW Complete has been tested for about a year now. We began testing on it several months prior to it being launched.

Quote:
I am confused on what would be better for my gliders.


diets are just about the most confusing things with sugar gliders. I dont think people think about diets with any other animals, not even with our own childrens diets as we do with these little ones.

No matter what you choose in the end, just remember, they are your gliders, and you have to choose something not only that they will eat, but also something that YOU feel comfortable with feeding no matter what everyone else feeds.

If you ever have any questions, please feel free to contact me at critterlove@critterlove.com


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: JillMarie] #1164132
08/20/11 07:42 PM
08/20/11 07:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
First of all let us leave all innuendos OFF the board,..........

BUT HONESTLY I feel if a diet killed a glider, the owner of that glider should have seen some telltale signs FIRST, taken their glider to a vet for an exam and bloodwork, and than maybe switched diets.


Ummm...that's an innuendo JillMarie! smile The glider that died, I was there. She looked healthy, was active and playing perfectly normal that weekend, including the night before she died. The next morning I woke up to a frantic glider owner holding her dead glider. vet care is a normal thing in that household as well.

The creator of the diet was made fully aware of the situation and ignored it.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164133
08/20/11 07:50 PM
08/20/11 07:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
josefine Offline
Glider Addict
josefine  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
Sort of off subject, but I still need to ask:
Everytime someone has come w/a diet plan, I have read over & over of how much nicer & thicker the coats & tails have gotten.
I started here just a few years ago, in 2008, & this is a repeat statement made to each diet.
I started out on BML,then I went to HPW,only b/c my gliders wouldn't eat as much as I wanted them to of the BML, but HPW didn't prove to be the answer,either.
Then I started feeding them Priscilla's diet,hoping they would eat the fruits & veggies w/her green powder stuff,(of which I never found out what the ingredients were).They would not eat any of it,whether left on top of the food,or mixed in.
I tried ED & Gails diet,from Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary (it is deemed as a glider soup).
I later did go to Candy's diet,they would eat it if it was fed on its own.When I poured it over the meals,they wouldn't eat anything.It is still a hit & miss w/the blended.
I sent out for the free samples,I ordered both,& they really do not like eggs,let alone 3 in the plus!!
The complete did do alittle bit of a better job,but they still weren't eating it,whether fed on the meals,or fed in its own bowl alone.
W/all the different diets they have been on,I never saw a 'better' coat,or more of a fluffy tail!!
There are days when I know I'll soon go bald,from pulling my hair out b/c of their lack of eating anything.
I continually pray that someday they will no longer be such picky eaters, & eat what is fed to them.


Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: JillMarie] #1164145
08/20/11 08:58 PM
08/20/11 08:58 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
BUT POLITELY tell the maker of that diet WHAT happened with using their diet so they know. NOT "your diet killed my glider" but "do you think the diet was the cause?" BUT HONESTLY I feel if a diet killed a glider, the owner of that glider should have seen some telltale signs FIRST, taken their glider to a vet for an exam and bloodwork, and than maybe switched diets.
Jill, I can't help but take your comments very personally. It is my glider that died. I'm not sure why you are suggesting that I should politely ask the creator of the diet, ""do you think the diet was the cause?" when I had a necropsy from a pathologist at the University of Kentucky confirm malnutrition as a cause of death. That pretty much removes all doubt. I also see it as a personal attack that I should have seen the telltale signs. I would have given ANYTHING to have seen some telltale signs. And yes, I did switch diets before she died, but the damage was already done. I just had no idea of the extent of it. You can rest assured that I have my own guilt to deal with. I made a decision that was fatal for one of my babies, and will live with that forever. I take full responsibility for that decision, but Zoey paid the ultimate price.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164182
08/21/11 12:07 AM
08/21/11 12:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Nancy, I feel your pain and I picture the tears on your face as you post this. I'm so very sorry for your loss.

I do believe that there is a disconnect with the Blended diet. Where or what that disconnect is, I don't know. But I DID feed the Blended for a good period of time. And in that time, I noticed a HUGE change in my gliders. Their activity level was down, but more so, their appearance was just so poor. Their fur was not healthy, their tails were scrawny and there almost seemed to be an "oily" appearance to their fur, even though it was cracked, if that makes any sense. All in all, I was not happy and since the gliders were never finishing their meal, I finally made a diet change.

With all due respect, Jill Marie...I don't know that Nancy could have done anything differently. We all know that gliders hide their illnesses and injuries. Some gliders hide these things better than others, but ultimately, we oftentimes don't know things until it's too late. So I'm not sure that it's a fair assessment to say that she should have known or seen something ahead of time. I know it's neither here nor there, but the last thing I want to have done in this thread is to pass judgment or add guilt to the burden she already carries.

I think this is a valid discussion to have and one that affects so many of us as glider owners. diet is such a controversial thing, but there are issues here with the Blended diet that I really feel need to be addressed. I'm not a nutritionist, nor do I profess to know much about diets at all. So, what those specific issues are, I don't know. What I DO know is that any time you create something, you need to stand tall, through the good and the bad. And when someone approaches the creator of a diet with an issue, it should be addressed, with no excuses, no procrastination. If for no other reason than the make sure that each and every one of the gliders out there are being fed something safe and healthy. One issue - whether it be illness or death - is one issue too many. Once diet is discovered to be the culprit, in one or 1,000 cases, it's time to do a recall until appropriate steps are taken to ensure the health and well being of other gliders. This is the responsible thing to do and would be reinforcing that you're here, first and foremost, "for the good of the glider."

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164221
08/21/11 03:07 AM
08/21/11 03:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Nancy, my comments are not meant to be taken personally. I posted on LGG as well that I am very sorry for the loss of your glider. Believe me when I say I have shed buckets of tears when I hear of one of these dying even though I never met them. I am truly sorry you took it personal. I never meant to add to your pain.

This is just the point I am trying to make though. It is when we do take things personal that the discussion gets lost. I think I made it very clear that the Blended diet needs work. But the only way that new members will learn about it, is to read threads where there is a discussion, not an argument. I am thinking back on when I was new and how I avoided threads like that, or why to this day I avoid a forum like Glider Gossip. Its a shame there are so many good discussions that members dont read because of issues like this.

I am NOT trying to downsize your feelings at all. If only you know how badly I want to reach through the screen and give you a big hug and let you see the tears on my face for YOU and your glider. But I am trying to put that aside for the benefit of new people that need to learn so the same doesnt happen to them. When posts become a personal attack, they get pulled. I am trying to stress here that diet discussions need to remain civil so they can stay and help others. IN NO WAY am I downsizing the loss of your glider. Aimee will tell you I had to take days off GC when I lost a family member recently who was a member of the animal kingdom, so believe me, I feel your pain. Please please please lets pull together here for the benefit of other gliders.

Aimee, in no way did I mean to pass judgement or add guilt. Nancy I am sorry if you feel I did that. The comments were meant in a general sense, not directed to you specifically.


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164250
08/21/11 07:20 AM
08/21/11 07:20 AM

B
bishopclan
Unregistered
bishopclan
Unregistered
B



Wow.

Im new to GC and I think it's absolutly wonderful. It's extremely informative and something I wish I got into earlier and a place I have recommended to dozens of people already.

But this page really upset me. From creators of these diets OBVIOUSLY going at each other, to the death of a sugar glider (I am so sorry that you had to go through that Nancy, my thoughts and prayers are with your babies).

As Aimee states and this forums holds true to "for the good of the glider" this seemed to be the opposite of that. It turned into a " Im better then you" arguement.

If we were looking out "for the good of the glider" it would have never got to this point and it really upset me that it did. Everybody on this forum is on here to learn, educate, and share stories about sugar gliders. I doubt anyone is on here to purposley harm gliders so why bash each other. Why not congratulate them on steping up and trying to find a better way for our gliders? Why not help motivate and give encouragement to help progress these issues instead of putting down and insulting each other when we are all lovers of these beautiful creatures? You don't get anywhere by going about these issues as a negative. Go at them with a positive! A positive promise to change things for the better and learn from mistakes, learn from bad experiences.

As someone new to this forum it makes the whole diet issue scary! It should be a fun journey to watch how amazing these gliders are with how picky they can be and the different attitudes they have towards foods. I was excited to see what would be the best fit, to see how they reacted to different foods. I was excited to prepare and compare these diets. Now I am just plain afraid.

I understand that these issues are extremely important and I understand they must be discussed. Let's just remember why we all have these babies...because we love them and want the best for them!

Thank you all for doing what your doing and keep up to good work. Without Candy, Peggy, Bourbon and countless others where would we be with our glidders now?

Please excuse any grammar problems I had to work an over night shift and energy drinks make my fingers dance.

Last edited by bishopclan; 08/21/11 07:22 AM.
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164266
08/21/11 09:50 AM
08/21/11 09:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
JM is correect - when insults are hurled, all the good points are lost. So yes, I agree that we need to be civil and discuss things in an adult manner. That seems to be what's happening now and what I hope continues throughout this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, ANY discussion like this should happen if there is EVER a question about a diet, a cage accessory, a wheel - anything! When the cage toxicity issue came to light and gliders were becoming ill and/or passing, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets stepped up to say, "Hey, there's something wrong with our cages". Martin's did the same, albeit slowly, but it happened. There's clearly something wrong with the cages, but still, to this day, we don't know WHAT is wrong. I don't want this to move into a discussion about cages - my point here is that although there is not a clear answer to what is wrong with the cages or that with 100% certainty it IS the cages, they STILL pulled them and to this day, are STILL testing. Because they can't technically prove that it was the cages that caused problems, they could have very easily let it roll off their backs and gone on with their business. They didn't. That's what I feel needs to happen here, as well.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164346
08/21/11 02:17 PM
08/21/11 02:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i agree with you aimee but i would like to state again that
a problem with this blended diet exists plus a death from malnutrition and the creator says everything is fine with her gliders so she isnt changing a thing? very disturbing.

this is very worrisome to me for our gliders out there.
will it take another death of a glider before these types
of diets are recalled.

sorry but this is not bashing these are Facts abt. a diet that is not working and still nothing is being done abt. it.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164556
08/21/11 10:11 PM
08/21/11 10:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
This will be my only response to this thread. I will not attempt to post quotes and defend each and every statement that has been made about me personally.

To those of you who believe the Blended diet had and adverse affect on the health of your gliders I am deeply sorry. My intention was to write a recipe for a glider diet that was balanced, easy to prepare and easy to choose fruits and vegetables to feed with it while maintaining a calcium to phosphorus ratio in the desired range. Many of you have referred to me and others that have written diets as “Creators”. I think you are assuming we have some magical powers when in reality we are glider owners and lovers who have written a recipe, using commercially available foods and supplements. Peggy’s new HPW diets might be considered a creation in that they are manufactured to her specifications. The Blended diet is simply a recipe. I did not ‘create’ any of the ingredients used in the recipe and all of the ingredients are also found in other glider diets.

When Adri initially posted the concerns of a few breeders, I asked those individuals to share more specific information with me including the version they were feeding, how long they had been using the diet and information about the amounts and variety of fruits and vegetables they were feeding with the blended diet. Since many of the concerns were about fur condition, I also asked them to share information about the weather (It had been a very cold winter), humidity, heating and/or air conditioning in their glider areas. Those requests were mistaken as my looking for excuses other than the diet. That was not my intention. I was trying to look at other commonalities between those that were seeing issues other than they were all breeders who were feeding the blended diet. I simply needed more specific information to put their observations into perspective since I have not seen the same issues personally.

Those with concerns seemed to feel that they did not need to share any information with me. That is their right, but not helpful to me to better understand their situations. Let’s face it. These forums do not work well for a detailed, thoughtful discussion of anything. Before a question can be answered, six other people who have no direct experience or first hand observations have jumped in to render an opinion often sending the whole discussion off in multiple directions. Insults and name calling do not solve anything.

Now that you (collectively) have ripped me apart, painted me a an uncaring villain, and virtually burned me at the stake for being a bad “Creator” I will list the steps I have taken. Nothing will satisfy most of you but I have taken steps to prevent anyone from using the Blended diet in the future.

First - you demand that I “Fix” the Blended diet. For those of you with concerns about feeding it, the “fix” is to choose another diet. I assume you have all done this and are not waiting to see what the “fix” will be. Even if I did post a revision of the Blended diet I doubt that any of you would use it.

Second - I have removed the Blended diet from my web page.

Third - I have removed the Blended diet and all other diets from the diet Calculator which has been modified to calculate only combinations of fruits and vegetables and other foods often used in the mixed combinations of fruits and vegetables. The ingredients list has been removed from the calculator spread sheet so no one will be able to use it in the future to write or check their own glider diet recipes.

Fourth - The Blended diet has been removed entirely from SugarGliderHelp.com. This step was necessary because many people have questioned how the Blended diet got on the “Approved diet List.” Folks, there is no approval process for Glider diets. Who would be granting such approval? There are no written criteria for diets to be approved. There are no nutritional guidelines for the amounts of nutrients that should be included in glider diets. The diets listed on SugarGliderHelp.com were placed there by individuals. I posted the link for the blended diet at the request of several individuals, I do not recall specifically who those folks were. The problem is that every time the word “diet” appears in a post on Glider Central it is highlighted and linked to the diets posted on SugarGliderHelp.com. This leads people to assume that the diets listed there are “Approved” by Glider Central. Anyone can list a personal diet there, the assumption would be the same. By the way Peggy, I do not think you have listed HPW Plus or HPW Complete at SugarGliderHelp.com but there is a listing for the “SSG Complete HPW diet.”

Last, I will make a short post on the forums recommending that those glider owners with concerns about the health of their gliders who are currently feeding the blended diet make another diet choice. I will request that they not recommend it to others.

In return, I request that anyone that would like to discuss specific points with respect to the blended diet please contact me by email at LuvMyGliderKids@aol.com. I have taken the necessary steps to prevent others from trying the blended diet in the future. I can do nothing more with respect to the past choices of others that accepted my diet recipe as one they would like to feed to their gliders. If you feel there are other steps I need to take, please contact me by email.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164568
08/21/11 10:55 PM
08/21/11 10:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Candy, thank you for taking action. Your action/response is all that can be asked of you.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: GliderNursery] #1164588
08/21/11 11:40 PM
08/21/11 11:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,713
GA
Sabarika Offline
Glider Slave
Sabarika  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,713
GA
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Candy, thank you for taking action. Your action/response is all that can be asked of you.

I agree.


Sabarika
Photography
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: CandyOtte] #1164733
08/22/11 09:39 AM
08/22/11 09:39 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Candy, I do appreciate the steps you have taken, but have a few observations.

Originally Posted By: OtteMom
Second - I have removed the Blended Diet from my web page.
It's still there.
Originally Posted By: OtteMom
Fourth - The Blended Diet has been removed entirely from SugarGliderHelp.com. This step was necessary because many people have questioned how the Blended Diet got on the “Approved Diet List.” This leads people to assume that the diets listed there are “Approved” by Glider Central.
Here is the mission statement on the Sugar Glider Help home page:

Our purpose is to provide an online sugar glider resource by maintaining a database that allows businesses/individuals the opportunity to add their information and contribute their experiences through a rating and review system. Our goal is to have up-to-date sugar glider related links to assist sugar glider owners when searching for Veterinarians, Breeders, Organizations, and Vendors.

This is clearly a place for everyone to rate and review diets and to give personal experiences. I'm not sure I understand why that was allowed to be removed, unless it only contained positive reviews.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164754
08/22/11 10:46 AM
08/22/11 10:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
You all need to back off Candy.

I have never used her diet, nor really looked into it but OH MY WORD you guys are brutal.

IF Candy wants to have on HER website what SHE feeds her gliders, she SHOULD have it on there. It works for HER gliders. Anyone with a glider website should have on there what they feed THEIR gliders.

Who are all of you to tell her she has to go though all this?

I've been on GC for a very long time and have seen some brutal attacks before but NEVER like this one.

We KNOW Wodent wheels cause glider injuries and deaths but I don't see anyone being attacked for selling or using those!

Quote:
Third - I have removed the Blended diet and all other diets from the diet Calculator which has been modified to calculate only combinations of fruits and vegetables and other foods often used in the mixed combinations of fruits and vegetables. The ingredients list has been removed from the calculator spread sheet so no one will be able to use it in the future to write or check their own glider diet recipes.


I'm sad to see you take that down. I found it helpful and I appreciated you doing the calculations for Reep's diet. While I am confident in Reeps (been feeding it for well over 7 years now), it was nice to see I wasn't "off base" with my "formula/recipe".

Last edited by Dancing; 08/22/11 10:48 AM.

620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164779
08/22/11 11:43 AM
08/22/11 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
nobody is forcing her to do what she is doing, it was asked
to recall the diet until it can be determined what the
problem is and suggested a nutrition expert be called in
to help.

on another note: it is not brutal to tell a creator of the
problems associated with their diet.

what is Brutal is gliders pulling joeys, hair loss, gliders
dying of malnutrition, etc, etc. and the creator states
"my gliders are doing fine, so i will not change anything"

that is a very cavalier attitude when you have people feeding your diet.

personally i am happy candy is pulling the diet and hope
she can find out what went wrong.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. i ask all now what diet would you feed the complete or
the blended?


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164791
08/22/11 12:26 PM
08/22/11 12:26 PM

H
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
H



Wow, this is insane. Isn't the purpose of this site to put different ideas out there about what works for them as an individual??

I am a new sugar glider owner and when I first started I didn't know squat about diet and housing. I seriously thought that throwing some baby food into the cage with fresh fruits and veggies was enough. My cage had one little pouch and two home-made toys. I joined a different site and got smashed becuase I was doing EVERytHING wrong! When in all reality, I got the wrong information from a wrong site! I even had 2 books on them. I left the other site and joined this one and learned SO much in just the first couple hours I was here. Needless to say I packed up and went to the store and made a HUGE online order within hours.

My point being that people come here to get educated. They should be given the most choices possible to CHOOSE HOW TO RAISE THEIR OWN BABIES. I personally feed my little guy the HPW complete...but I have used some recipies from the blended diet. My little guy also LOVES the eggs and honey with warm water mixture. So he gets that everyonce in a while for a snack.

If there are concerns that comes with something, then yes it should be noted...but in all reality, it's the owners choice.

As for the comment made of "my gliders are doing fine, so i will not change anything" I was once in this type of an issue and I was not by any means being rude...but it gets old when people are telling you how bad of an owner you are being when you know in your heart that these little ones are your world.

My personal issue was over the Wodent Wheel. I have one for my little guy and he does fine in it. I clean it every-other day and he loves it so much he sometimes sleeps in it. And again, unless you personally come to my home and re-place it, he is going to be using this wheel untill it is time to buy a new one.

There are so many issues with everything. I am going to use the wheel as an example (because I did not see the original post with this specific issue) I have seen people lose their babies due to the stelth because of being behind the wheel while another glider is running and it snapping their neck. So again, everything has their cautions.

I do not think it is fair that Candy felt like she had to take off her diet. I think it is flat out ridiclous. Whats next....making members that still choose to leave pelet food in their cage leave GC??

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164803
08/22/11 12:59 PM
08/22/11 12:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
what is so stupid abt. taking a diet off the market that
has proven to hurt/kill our gliders.

if you concocted a new diet and started pushing/advertising
other gliders to eat it and they started getting sick and worse would you still promote your diet. i dont think so. for the good of the glider and not your pride you would pull it and try to find out what went wrong.

dont understand your logic on this one.

the question here was asked hpw complete? or blended?
the question was answered good and bad. if you dont want to hear the good with the bad how would you expect to learn what is and isnt good for your gliders?

these problems were brought up months ago and nothing was done to stop or fix the diet and the creator of this diet was aware.
candy is fixing this issue the way she sees fit.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ] #1164808
08/22/11 01:04 PM
08/22/11 01:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA

I just have to wonder...What do you guys say to someone like myself who never followed ANY diet and rarely added ANY suppliments? BTW Lillie will soon be 12 and I have 3 that are 10. So I'm not sure how feeding a diet that is supposed to be a combination of BML and HPW can cause malnutrition. I didn't see the original post but I wonder if there was some underlying problem that caused malnutrition? Nancy, I am very sorry that you lost one of your babies because I know how very much you love them. But I really don't understand how a diet that provides so many nutrients can be cause malnutrition when I've never worried about all that stuff myself???




Originally Posted By: HisSugaMomma

There are so many issues with everything. I am going to use the wheel as an example (because I did not see the original post with this specific issue) I have seen people lose their babies due to the stelth because of being behind the wheel while another glider is running and it snapping their neck. So again, everything has their cautions.



Would you please PM me specifics on that. I've never heard about that and we like to check into those kinds of things. So far all the reports that we have had turned out to be nothing but we still like to check it out. Now I'm sure that animals can get hurt on any wheel, and when it does happen on ours, it will break my heart. But please just let me know so I can look into it.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook



Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164819
08/22/11 01:37 PM
08/22/11 01:37 PM

R
resa0210
Unregistered
resa0210
Unregistered
R



As a new glider mommy and a new member to GC, I may be out of place here but this post seems to have caused a lot of hate and upset.

I am very sorry for your loss Nancy.

Again I am sorry if I am out of line but cant this post be locked and the op make a new thread with any other questions they may have now that all this has gone on. It just seems to be so much anger on a site that I thought was very caring and could talk to each other about things without all the virtual chokeholds...

If my post is against the rules or out of line please delete it. It is just kinda scary to new owners and members to see this much fighting when they come to the forums.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: hushpuppy] #1164820
08/22/11 01:37 PM
08/22/11 01:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer
Jos  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
I find it appalling that Candy has been essentially bullied into removing her diet from HER OWN website.

I'm a firm believer in owner accountablity.

If my pets got sick from something I gave them, that's MY fault. The diet may not be right for MY gliders, but others may have no issue with it. They may have had an allergy to something in it, or perhaps they had a sensitive digestive track.

That is not Candy's fault, in fact, from all the different accounts I've read only a VERY small percentage of people actually had problems with the diet.

I'm truly at a loss, I thought this was a place to go for help and advice but lately all I've been seeing is the opposite. There is a great push for HPW complete and Plus and everyone is singing it's praises. I'm still unsure it's good as it hasn't been around long enough, but who am I to judge.

If you have a problem with a diet. Don't use it. Don't complain about it either though if it's working for other people.

But sadly in this case the squeaky wheel got the oil without any help to Candy to find out exactly what part of the diet MAY have caused the issue. Bravo. Bravo.


Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164839
08/22/11 02:35 PM
08/22/11 02:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict
Sherri  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Ok, so here is a little bit of info for all of you saying that people have bullied Candy into anything.

Actually the truth is that all people wanted is that she have her diet and her gliders tested to see if there was a problem. But since she refuses to do either than what are people to expect when there are sick and dying gliders that the only common factor is that they were eating The Blended diet?

I think everyone would have been happy with aknowledgement that Candy was interested in doing these tests. Instead she took it upon herself to pull her diet. And not do anything about the concerns that others had.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164846
08/22/11 03:06 PM
08/22/11 03:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian
Marz  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
I don't want to comment on diets specifically but about the glider that died. Did anyone take into account there may have been an underlying cause why it had malnutrition?

Firstly there is malabsorption (difficulty absorbing nutrients from food).Who is to say the glider in question didn't have a condition that affected adequete nutrition absorption? Were the other gliders in the cage tested to see if they were suffering from malnutrition too? If the diet was the cause, there should have been signs that the other gliders were to some extent affected also.

Secondly preferred food preference could have been a cause also. When you have more than one glider in the cage, it is often difficult to control or note what each individual glider is consuming. Often like a child, they will fill up on their favourite foods first! Maybe it was the last to eat (by preference or colony rank!) and there was little choice left. Without careful observation it can be hard to tell.

I dealt with someone who had a glider that starting showing signs of malnutrition despite a fairly good diet. However, on further investigation, like a child, it ate it's fill on only what it wanted and not what it needed. The other gliders were fine and the owner didn't notice that this particular glider was not eating across the range of foods fed out each night.With a careful change to the way it was fed, the glider had a good turnaround and today it's nice and healthy.

For this reason alone, I always look at a bigger picture first!

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Marz] #1164849
08/22/11 03:25 PM
08/22/11 03:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer
JeremysDad  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
Originally Posted By: Marz
I don't want to comment on diets specifically but about the glider that died. Did anyone take into account there may have been an underlying cause why it had malnutrition?

Firstly there is malabsorption (difficulty absorbing nutrients from food).Who is to say the glider in question didn't have a condition that affected adequete nutrition absorption? Were the other gliders in the cage tested to see if they were suffering from malnutrition too? If the diet was the cause, there should have been signs that the other gliders were to some extent affected also.

Secondly preferred food preference could have been a cause also. When you have more than one glider in the cage, it is often difficult to control or note what each individual glider is consuming. Often like a child, they will fill up on their favourite foods first! Maybe it was the last to eat (by preference or colony rank!) and there was little choice left. Without careful observation it can be hard to tell.

I dealt with someone who had a glider that starting showing signs of malnutrition despite a fairly good diet. However, on further investigation, like a child, it ate it's fill on only what it wanted and not what it needed. The other gliders were fine and the owner didn't notice that this particular glider was not eating across the range of foods fed out each night.With a careful change to the way it was fed, the glider had a good turnaround and today it's nice and healthy.

For this reason alone, I always look at a bigger picture first!
That's what I was thinking!


Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Jos] #1164851
08/22/11 03:38 PM
08/22/11 03:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer
JeremysDad  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
Originally Posted By: Jos
I find it appalling that Candy has been essentially bullied into removing her diet from HER OWN website.

I'm a firm believer in owner accountablity.

If my pets got sick from something I gave them, that's MY fault. The diet may not be right for MY gliders, but others may have no issue with it. They may have had an allergy to something in it, or perhaps they had a sensitive digestive track.

That is not Candy's fault, in fact, from all the different accounts I've read only a VERY small percentage of people actually had problems with the diet.

I'm truly at a loss, I thought this was a place to go for help and advice but lately all I've been seeing is the opposite. There is a great push for HPW complete and Plus and everyone is singing it's praises. I'm still unsure it's good as it hasn't been around long enough, but who am I to judge.

If you have a problem with a diet. Don't use it. Don't complain about it either though if it's working for other people.

But sadly in this case the squeaky wheel got the oil without any help to Candy to find out exactly what part of the diet MAY have caused the issue. Bravo. Bravo.
Totally agree. I was told there are ingredients in HPW complete that are not safe for gliders, yet you hear a lot of people have their gliders on it.


Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164853
08/22/11 03:48 PM
08/22/11 03:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
the problem is not just abt. a glider dying on this diet but of many other gliders from different owners that were pulling joeys, losing hair and getting sick. the one common denomination in all of this is they were feeding the blended diet. this tells me that something is not right in
this particular diet.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164875
08/22/11 05:17 PM
08/22/11 05:17 PM

N
newfuzzyflyermom
Unregistered
newfuzzyflyermom
Unregistered
N



Ben, as a newbie myself all I can tell you is that I have been using HPW complete for 2 months and they love it. Like people I think gliders may react differently to diets. I know I won't eat veggies but remain healthy while there are some people out there that don't eat meat and remain healthy. Do your research, try one, and see how they do. I know this is a touchy subject just since I have been on here but just do the best you can and watch your gliders closely. Until more is known about gliders and their care we are all just doing our best for the ones we love. Am I right everyone?

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ] #1164934
08/22/11 07:48 PM
08/22/11 07:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 353
TN
JazzNZoeysMom Offline
Glider Lover
JazzNZoeysMom  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 353
TN
Originally Posted By: newfuzzyflyermom
Until more is known about gliders and their care we are all just doing our best for the ones we love. Am I right everyone?



Absolutely agree!

JeremysDad,... I'm wondering what ingredients in the HPW COMPLETE are not good for gliders? IMO, with a thread this heated, statements like that shouldn't just be thrown out there. It would be more beneficial to those of us that are confused to say something on the order of, "the ????? in HPW has been proven to be bad for gliders,..." and then back it up with whatever proof you have. diet is a hot button topic, especially now, & if you know there is an ingredient that is bad, how can we question the "creator" if we don't know what it is & why or who has deemed it bad? I'm just saying cuz I feed HPW COMPLETE & if it may injure my gliders I would really like to know, and I believe Peggy would appreciate the opportunity to fix any potential problems. Thanks!


LuvMyGliderBabies

Jasper :grey: Zoey :grey: Mala :grey: Kodah :grey:
Ariana :grey: And the twins~ Aerwen :wfb: Caci
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164952
08/22/11 08:36 PM
08/22/11 08:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
B
B3N Offline OP
Joey Member
B3N  Offline OP
Joey Member
B

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
Wow, this thread got really intense. I tried to keep quiet being mostly new to glider diets in general but wow, just wow. I have already sent Candy a personal email with my sincere apologies. I know nothing about feeding her diet since the original post was a question on whether the concerns with it were resolved or not but I feel sad.

I saw the blended as a "best of both worlds" since it included the top two diets in its' contents.

I've heard nothing but praise for HPW Complete and being upfront will probably try that as my first diet to see how my gliders, when I get them, will take to it.

I've seen some newbies put in their two cents in this thread as well and as a partial newbie myself, it IS very scary to see the comments that have been made.

I'm proud of Candy's composure when she decided to do what she did in relation to her diet. She stated that she was being burned at the stake yet in that final post on this thread she neither pointed fingers or laid blame. Thank you Candy, for being a respectful person.

I do hope that this thread continues in a more pleasant manner. Lets get back to what GC was known for: being a place to learn without prejudices. Stand by what most have said and if there were problems with diets, bring it TO the creator in a PM so as not to raise any panic or alarm.

With enough input from enough people through a PM, I'm certain that the creator of a diet that may cause problems will do the right thing in the name of the gliders and announce that their diet may or may not be harmful.

I want the old GC back. I miss the niceties. Once again, Candy, I truly am sorry. Much love to you and your babies.

Much love to everyone and THEIR babies as well.


Benjamin K.
Suggie Lover

"Even the dawn has trouble hiding the stars; shine for all you're worth." - Me

"My Patronus is a Sugar Glider!" - Me

"Step one is moving. It doesn't really matter how you move. What matters is that you do." - Unknown
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164962
08/22/11 08:58 PM
08/22/11 08:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
holelottaRosie Offline
Glider Explorer
holelottaRosie  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
It's really sad that when you have a bunch of people that are very passionate about something that this is what you get. Let's all be honest and admit NONE of us are experts...we have opinions, beliefs and what has worked for us in the past...we are ALL learning...If you believe a diet is bad or a toy is unsafe or anything like that...then don't use it...most of the time I don't post here and just read...I listen to what the people I respect think and then make up my own mind for better or worse. Einstein once said " anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"...so Peggy,Candy and Bourbon ( sorry if I've left anyone out) are at least trying things for the betterment of all gliders...you may agree or disagree with something they say or do...but attacking them is just plain wrong....if you disagree with me....that's fine...attack away...I'm a big boy and can take it....but lets all try and remember why we are here....we all love gliders


Gary
Servant to
Mia & Rosie :grey: Delilah :wfb:
Piper,Phoebe and Paige :grey: "The Charmed Ones"
My Connie babies Liam & Lilith :bb: And Sparrow :rtmo:
3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley
1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great"
1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: holelottaRosie] #1165006
08/22/11 10:50 PM
08/22/11 10:50 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Benjamin, it was certainly not your fault this turned into what it did. You just asked some diet questions, based upon what you had read. There is always so much history and background in the glider community that many of us aren’t aware of. This is a very passionate group, and diet seems to be one of the most controversial issues.

Anita, believe me, I am tempted to just throw some ice cream, Cheerios, granola bars or whatever else I can find into the glider bowls. (Just an example that came into my head and am not implying that you feed that!) Nothing about gliders has caused me as much worry and confusion as diet in the past 3 years. All we can do is try to make the best decision we can, based upon the vast pool of information available. Ultimately, it is our decision, and I have accepted the responsibility for mine.

Marz, as I mentioned on another forum, anything is possible. All I have are vet reports, a necropsy report, fecals, physical exams, ELISA tests, and I can't even remember what else. Zoey had two cagemates. None of them had any weight loss, lethargy or what I thought would be symptoms of malnutrition. They were given enough food so that there was at least some left in the bowl in the morning. No, I didn’t watch to make sure who ate what. I keep charts of my glider’s weights when I trim nails every two to three weeks. There was no weight loss for the last few weights I recorded. There were no signs of food aggression - the only sound out of that cage is crabbing from the pouch from the older grumpy female when I reached in the cage to remove the bowl in the morning.

Candy made her own decision to take her diet off her website. She posted that she did it, I looked and it was still there, so I posted. It does not matter to me if it is there or not. I would have preferred some answers to the valid questions that were being asked. These are questions I should have sought answers to in September 2010. My bad. I guess there are no answers.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: hushpuppy] #1165058
08/23/11 01:02 AM
08/23/11 01:02 AM

H
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
H



Originally Posted By: hushpuppy

I just have to wonder...What do you guys say to someone like myself who never followed ANY diet and rarely added ANY suppliments? BTW Lillie will soon be 12 and I have 3 that are 10. So I'm not sure how feeding a diet that is supposed to be a combination of BML and HPW can cause malnutrition. I didn't see the original post but I wonder if there was some underlying problem that caused malnutrition? Nancy, I am very sorry that you lost one of your babies because I know how very much you love them. But I really don't understand how a diet that provides so many nutrients can be cause malnutrition when I've never worried about all that stuff myself???




Originally Posted By: HisSugaMomma

There are so many issues with everything. I am going to use the wheel as an example (because I did not see the original post with this specific issue) I have seen people lose their babies due to the stelth because of being behind the wheel while another glider is running and it snapping their neck. So again, everything has their cautions.



Would you please PM me specifics on that. I've never heard about that and we like to check into those kinds of things. So far all the reports that we have had turned out to be nothing but we still like to check it out. Now I'm sure that animals can get hurt on any wheel, and when it does happen on ours, it will break my heart. But please just let me know so I can look into it.


This issue was in a forum that was posted at, if I remember right, Sugarglider.com...I am very sorry that I don't really have the specifics. Although I did make a couple posts on this forum...So I know that what I was reading was what I was reading.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1165124
08/23/11 05:33 AM
08/23/11 05:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
E
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover
eshaw  Offline
Glider Lover
E

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
I'm going along with what Gary said. I'd also like to reiterate that just because something didn't work for you or isn't of the popular opinion, that doesn't make something bad. Maybe it's not the diet that is the problem. Maybe some of you are getting tainted ingredients??? You never know now days.
I like to try things out and see what happens and I know this makes some of the old timers on here unhappy, or makes them think what's the use. I don't consider this reinventing the wheel. Will I knowingly put a glider in harms way? No. But it's also up to me and you to be responsible for your glider and live with the consequences or your actions. If you want to experiment with cage bar size, diets, wheels or what have you it's your decision. This site is basically a compilation of lessons learned from what I've seen so far. If you don't try things on your own nothing will ever change.

Last edited by eshaw; 08/23/11 05:35 AM.
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1165156
08/23/11 09:23 AM
08/23/11 09:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Nancy, no offense taken. Heck fire we's bed buddies. And once I looked back, I do remember you telling us about Zoey. Gosh, that seems like an eternity ago, but it was just last month.

Ice cream and cheerios? I wouldn't take it that far. OK, well maybe a little taste out of my bowl occasionally. Lol But what I'm trying to say it that I have tried all the diets at one time or another and I just don't have the discipline to stick with it and the gliders seem to be doing OK.

My vet told me that the average sugar glider death that she sees in her office is 2 – 4 yrs old. And the facts seem to say that lots of gliders are dying young; even those that are on good approved diets. There is just so much that we don't know about these little creatures. And the last report that I had from the Sugar group shows something like 25% (didn't look it up, so that's from memory) of glider deaths are directly due to liver problems. That is a huge number.

Yep, I'm going to put a shameless plug here. This is one of the reasons that the work that the SUGAR group does is so important. If there is evidence that there is a deficiency in any of the diets, It will show up in their research. Until something definitely rears it's head, we all just have to do the best that we can do.

Something is for sure going on with so many babies dieing so young, but we just haven't been able to put our finger on it and we might never be able to. It could be diet related, it could be heredity, it could be related to enrichment, exercise, exposure to chemicals. Who knows?

I know that for me, I have lightened up a little and stopped kicking myself for not doing everything perfect. I know the risks and I'm willing to take them. Since I gave myself permission to be imperfect, I have had much more enjoyment with my fur brats. And heck yeah, they will fight me over a Popsicle on a stick. They don't want the stinkin' piece that I broke off and put in a bowl for them. They want the whole stick. LOL Ungrateful little boogers!

I don't want to take this post too far off but I did go over to GG and did a search but I didn't come up with anything. I just want people to know if there is ever an injury, please let me know. We really do care about the safety of our products.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook



Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: hwh4ev] #1166658
08/27/11 12:48 AM
08/27/11 12:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 458
Colorado, USA
Paani Offline
Glider Lover
Paani  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 458
Colorado, USA
Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
what is so stupid abt. taking a diet off the market that
has proven to hurt/kill our gliders.

if you concocted a new diet and started pushing/advertising
other gliders to eat it and they started getting sick and worse would you still promote your diet. i dont think so. for the good of the glider and not your pride you would pull it and try to find out what went wrong.

dont understand your logic on this one.

the question here was asked hpw complete? or blended?
the question was answered good and bad. if you dont want to hear the good with the bad how would you expect to learn what is and isnt good for your gliders?

these problems were brought up months ago and nothing was done to stop or fix the diet and the creator of this diet was aware.
candy is fixing this issue the way she sees fit.

regards,
nancy in detroit


I actually don't understand YOUR logic or those that say the diet has to be "stopped or fixed" because SOME people had issues. There seem to be a LOT of gliders doing quite well using her diet and the fact of the matter is that a LOT of things can cause an organism to suffer from malnutrition (dietary behavior, parasites, bad production of key ingredients, etc.). If the diet was really lacking something then you'd expect the MAJORITY (if not all) of gliders on it to be dying of malnutrition.

Eliminating references to other diets in her calculator was all good if the nutritional calculations were incorrect but Candy has done more than I think she needed to because I'm not at all convinced it needed "to be stopped or fixed". She built it on very sound dietary and nutrition principles and pulled information from an authoritative source.


Nala, Ronald & Reuel (formerly Eladio & Petal) :plat:
Judah :rbridge: Anson :rbridge: Lele :rbridge: Laki :rbridge:
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