Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
peterbenma, Their_mommy
Member Spotlight
theresaw
theresaw
United States
Posts: 364
Joined: July 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Last 10 Posts
Vendor approved TOYS!
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 03:06 PM
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 03:04 PM
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 03:01 PM
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 02:59 PM
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 02:58 PM
Exciting update! . . .
by KarenE. 09/14/19 10:12 AM
2020 Sugar Glider Calendar and Cafe Press Store
by theresaw. 09/13/19 07:57 AM
Step dads'
by the_eidolon. 09/13/19 01:35 AM
Which Gender is best for colony?
by Claralice. 09/13/19 12:18 AM
Traveling with Gliders in RV**
by Ladymagyver. 09/12/19 01:26 PM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164250
08/21/11 07:20 AM
08/21/11 07:20 AM

B
bishopclan
Unregistered
bishopclan
Unregistered
B



Wow.

Im new to GC and I think it's absolutly wonderful. It's extremely informative and something I wish I got into earlier and a place I have recommended to dozens of people already.

But this page really upset me. From creators of these diets OBVIOUSLY going at each other, to the death of a sugar glider (I am so sorry that you had to go through that Nancy, my thoughts and prayers are with your babies).

As Aimee states and this forums holds true to "for the good of the glider" this seemed to be the opposite of that. It turned into a " Im better then you" arguement.

If we were looking out "for the good of the glider" it would have never got to this point and it really upset me that it did. Everybody on this forum is on here to learn, educate, and share stories about sugar gliders. I doubt anyone is on here to purposley harm gliders so why bash each other. Why not congratulate them on steping up and trying to find a better way for our gliders? Why not help motivate and give encouragement to help progress these issues instead of putting down and insulting each other when we are all lovers of these beautiful creatures? You don't get anywhere by going about these issues as a negative. Go at them with a positive! A positive promise to change things for the better and learn from mistakes, learn from bad experiences.

As someone new to this forum it makes the whole diet issue scary! It should be a fun journey to watch how amazing these gliders are with how picky they can be and the different attitudes they have towards foods. I was excited to see what would be the best fit, to see how they reacted to different foods. I was excited to prepare and compare these diets. Now I am just plain afraid.

I understand that these issues are extremely important and I understand they must be discussed. Let's just remember why we all have these babies...because we love them and want the best for them!

Thank you all for doing what your doing and keep up to good work. Without Candy, Peggy, Bourbon and countless others where would we be with our glidders now?

Please excuse any grammar problems I had to work an over night shift and energy drinks make my fingers dance.

Last edited by bishopclan; 08/21/11 07:22 AM.
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164266
08/21/11 09:50 AM
08/21/11 09:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,216
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,216
Washington D.C. Metro Area
JM is correect - when insults are hurled, all the good points are lost. So yes, I agree that we need to be civil and discuss things in an adult manner. That seems to be what's happening now and what I hope continues throughout this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, ANY discussion like this should happen if there is EVER a question about a diet, a cage accessory, a wheel - anything! When the cage toxicity issue came to light and gliders were becoming ill and/or passing, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets stepped up to say, "Hey, there's something wrong with our cages". Martin's did the same, albeit slowly, but it happened. There's clearly something wrong with the cages, but still, to this day, we don't know WHAT is wrong. I don't want this to move into a discussion about cages - my point here is that although there is not a clear answer to what is wrong with the cages or that with 100% certainty it IS the cages, they STILL pulled them and to this day, are STILL testing. Because they can't technically prove that it was the cages that caused problems, they could have very easily let it roll off their backs and gone on with their business. They didn't. That's what I feel needs to happen here, as well.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164346
08/21/11 02:17 PM
08/21/11 02:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i agree with you aimee but i would like to state again that
a problem with this blended diet exists plus a death from malnutrition and the creator says everything is fine with her gliders so she isnt changing a thing? very disturbing.

this is very worrisome to me for our gliders out there.
will it take another death of a glider before these types
of diets are recalled.

sorry but this is not bashing these are Facts abt. a diet that is not working and still nothing is being done abt. it.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164556
08/21/11 10:11 PM
08/21/11 10:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
This will be my only response to this thread. I will not attempt to post quotes and defend each and every statement that has been made about me personally.

To those of you who believe the Blended diet had and adverse affect on the health of your gliders I am deeply sorry. My intention was to write a recipe for a glider diet that was balanced, easy to prepare and easy to choose fruits and vegetables to feed with it while maintaining a calcium to phosphorus ratio in the desired range. Many of you have referred to me and others that have written diets as “Creators”. I think you are assuming we have some magical powers when in reality we are glider owners and lovers who have written a recipe, using commercially available foods and supplements. Peggy’s new HPW diets might be considered a creation in that they are manufactured to her specifications. The Blended diet is simply a recipe. I did not ‘create’ any of the ingredients used in the recipe and all of the ingredients are also found in other glider diets.

When Adri initially posted the concerns of a few breeders, I asked those individuals to share more specific information with me including the version they were feeding, how long they had been using the diet and information about the amounts and variety of fruits and vegetables they were feeding with the blended diet. Since many of the concerns were about fur condition, I also asked them to share information about the weather (It had been a very cold winter), humidity, heating and/or air conditioning in their glider areas. Those requests were mistaken as my looking for excuses other than the diet. That was not my intention. I was trying to look at other commonalities between those that were seeing issues other than they were all breeders who were feeding the blended diet. I simply needed more specific information to put their observations into perspective since I have not seen the same issues personally.

Those with concerns seemed to feel that they did not need to share any information with me. That is their right, but not helpful to me to better understand their situations. Let’s face it. These forums do not work well for a detailed, thoughtful discussion of anything. Before a question can be answered, six other people who have no direct experience or first hand observations have jumped in to render an opinion often sending the whole discussion off in multiple directions. Insults and name calling do not solve anything.

Now that you (collectively) have ripped me apart, painted me a an uncaring villain, and virtually burned me at the stake for being a bad “Creator” I will list the steps I have taken. Nothing will satisfy most of you but I have taken steps to prevent anyone from using the Blended diet in the future.

First - you demand that I “Fix” the Blended diet. For those of you with concerns about feeding it, the “fix” is to choose another diet. I assume you have all done this and are not waiting to see what the “fix” will be. Even if I did post a revision of the Blended diet I doubt that any of you would use it.

Second - I have removed the Blended diet from my web page.

Third - I have removed the Blended diet and all other diets from the diet Calculator which has been modified to calculate only combinations of fruits and vegetables and other foods often used in the mixed combinations of fruits and vegetables. The ingredients list has been removed from the calculator spread sheet so no one will be able to use it in the future to write or check their own glider diet recipes.

Fourth - The Blended diet has been removed entirely from SugarGliderHelp.com. This step was necessary because many people have questioned how the Blended diet got on the “Approved diet List.” Folks, there is no approval process for Glider diets. Who would be granting such approval? There are no written criteria for diets to be approved. There are no nutritional guidelines for the amounts of nutrients that should be included in glider diets. The diets listed on SugarGliderHelp.com were placed there by individuals. I posted the link for the blended diet at the request of several individuals, I do not recall specifically who those folks were. The problem is that every time the word “diet” appears in a post on Glider Central it is highlighted and linked to the diets posted on SugarGliderHelp.com. This leads people to assume that the diets listed there are “Approved” by Glider Central. Anyone can list a personal diet there, the assumption would be the same. By the way Peggy, I do not think you have listed HPW Plus or HPW Complete at SugarGliderHelp.com but there is a listing for the “SSG Complete HPW diet.”

Last, I will make a short post on the forums recommending that those glider owners with concerns about the health of their gliders who are currently feeding the blended diet make another diet choice. I will request that they not recommend it to others.

In return, I request that anyone that would like to discuss specific points with respect to the blended diet please contact me by email at LuvMyGliderKids@aol.com. I have taken the necessary steps to prevent others from trying the blended diet in the future. I can do nothing more with respect to the past choices of others that accepted my diet recipe as one they would like to feed to their gliders. If you feel there are other steps I need to take, please contact me by email.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164568
08/21/11 10:55 PM
08/21/11 10:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Candy, thank you for taking action. Your action/response is all that can be asked of you.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: GliderNursery] #1164588
08/21/11 11:40 PM
08/21/11 11:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,712
nKY
Sabarika Offline
Glider Slave
Sabarika  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,712
nKY
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Candy, thank you for taking action. Your action/response is all that can be asked of you.

I agree.


Sabarika
Photography
Cash :rtmo: cloud9 :rtmo: Xpense
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: CandyOtte] #1164733
08/22/11 09:39 AM
08/22/11 09:39 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Candy, I do appreciate the steps you have taken, but have a few observations.

Originally Posted By: OtteMom
Second - I have removed the Blended Diet from my web page.
It's still there.
Originally Posted By: OtteMom
Fourth - The Blended Diet has been removed entirely from SugarGliderHelp.com. This step was necessary because many people have questioned how the Blended Diet got on the “Approved Diet List.” This leads people to assume that the diets listed there are “Approved” by Glider Central.
Here is the mission statement on the Sugar Glider Help home page:

Our purpose is to provide an online sugar glider resource by maintaining a database that allows businesses/individuals the opportunity to add their information and contribute their experiences through a rating and review system. Our goal is to have up-to-date sugar glider related links to assist sugar glider owners when searching for Veterinarians, Breeders, Organizations, and Vendors.

This is clearly a place for everyone to rate and review diets and to give personal experiences. I'm not sure I understand why that was allowed to be removed, unless it only contained positive reviews.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164754
08/22/11 10:46 AM
08/22/11 10:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
You all need to back off Candy.

I have never used her diet, nor really looked into it but OH MY WORD you guys are brutal.

IF Candy wants to have on HER website what SHE feeds her gliders, she SHOULD have it on there. It works for HER gliders. Anyone with a glider website should have on there what they feed THEIR gliders.

Who are all of you to tell her she has to go though all this?

I've been on GC for a very long time and have seen some brutal attacks before but NEVER like this one.

We KNOW Wodent wheels cause glider injuries and deaths but I don't see anyone being attacked for selling or using those!

Quote:
Third - I have removed the Blended diet and all other diets from the diet Calculator which has been modified to calculate only combinations of fruits and vegetables and other foods often used in the mixed combinations of fruits and vegetables. The ingredients list has been removed from the calculator spread sheet so no one will be able to use it in the future to write or check their own glider diet recipes.


I'm sad to see you take that down. I found it helpful and I appreciated you doing the calculations for Reep's diet. While I am confident in Reeps (been feeding it for well over 7 years now), it was nice to see I wasn't "off base" with my "formula/recipe".

Last edited by Dancing; 08/22/11 10:48 AM.

620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164779
08/22/11 11:43 AM
08/22/11 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
nobody is forcing her to do what she is doing, it was asked
to recall the diet until it can be determined what the
problem is and suggested a nutrition expert be called in
to help.

on another note: it is not brutal to tell a creator of the
problems associated with their diet.

what is Brutal is gliders pulling joeys, hair loss, gliders
dying of malnutrition, etc, etc. and the creator states
"my gliders are doing fine, so i will not change anything"

that is a very cavalier attitude when you have people feeding your diet.

personally i am happy candy is pulling the diet and hope
she can find out what went wrong.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. i ask all now what diet would you feed the complete or
the blended?


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164791
08/22/11 12:26 PM
08/22/11 12:26 PM

H
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
H



Wow, this is insane. Isn't the purpose of this site to put different ideas out there about what works for them as an individual??

I am a new sugar glider owner and when I first started I didn't know squat about diet and housing. I seriously thought that throwing some baby food into the cage with fresh fruits and veggies was enough. My cage had one little pouch and two home-made toys. I joined a different site and got smashed becuase I was doing EVERytHING wrong! When in all reality, I got the wrong information from a wrong site! I even had 2 books on them. I left the other site and joined this one and learned SO much in just the first couple hours I was here. Needless to say I packed up and went to the store and made a HUGE online order within hours.

My point being that people come here to get educated. They should be given the most choices possible to CHOOSE HOW TO RAISE THEIR OWN BABIES. I personally feed my little guy the HPW complete...but I have used some recipies from the blended diet. My little guy also LOVES the eggs and honey with warm water mixture. So he gets that everyonce in a while for a snack.

If there are concerns that comes with something, then yes it should be noted...but in all reality, it's the owners choice.

As for the comment made of "my gliders are doing fine, so i will not change anything" I was once in this type of an issue and I was not by any means being rude...but it gets old when people are telling you how bad of an owner you are being when you know in your heart that these little ones are your world.

My personal issue was over the Wodent Wheel. I have one for my little guy and he does fine in it. I clean it every-other day and he loves it so much he sometimes sleeps in it. And again, unless you personally come to my home and re-place it, he is going to be using this wheel untill it is time to buy a new one.

There are so many issues with everything. I am going to use the wheel as an example (because I did not see the original post with this specific issue) I have seen people lose their babies due to the stelth because of being behind the wheel while another glider is running and it snapping their neck. So again, everything has their cautions.

I do not think it is fair that Candy felt like she had to take off her diet. I think it is flat out ridiclous. Whats next....making members that still choose to leave pelet food in their cage leave GC??

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164803
08/22/11 12:59 PM
08/22/11 12:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
what is so stupid abt. taking a diet off the market that
has proven to hurt/kill our gliders.

if you concocted a new diet and started pushing/advertising
other gliders to eat it and they started getting sick and worse would you still promote your diet. i dont think so. for the good of the glider and not your pride you would pull it and try to find out what went wrong.

dont understand your logic on this one.

the question here was asked hpw complete? or blended?
the question was answered good and bad. if you dont want to hear the good with the bad how would you expect to learn what is and isnt good for your gliders?

these problems were brought up months ago and nothing was done to stop or fix the diet and the creator of this diet was aware.
candy is fixing this issue the way she sees fit.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ] #1164808
08/22/11 01:04 PM
08/22/11 01:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA

I just have to wonder...What do you guys say to someone like myself who never followed ANY diet and rarely added ANY suppliments? BTW Lillie will soon be 12 and I have 3 that are 10. So I'm not sure how feeding a diet that is supposed to be a combination of BML and HPW can cause malnutrition. I didn't see the original post but I wonder if there was some underlying problem that caused malnutrition? Nancy, I am very sorry that you lost one of your babies because I know how very much you love them. But I really don't understand how a diet that provides so many nutrients can be cause malnutrition when I've never worried about all that stuff myself???




Originally Posted By: HisSugaMomma

There are so many issues with everything. I am going to use the wheel as an example (because I did not see the original post with this specific issue) I have seen people lose their babies due to the stelth because of being behind the wheel while another glider is running and it snapping their neck. So again, everything has their cautions.



Would you please PM me specifics on that. I've never heard about that and we like to check into those kinds of things. So far all the reports that we have had turned out to be nothing but we still like to check it out. Now I'm sure that animals can get hurt on any wheel, and when it does happen on ours, it will break my heart. But please just let me know so I can look into it.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook



Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164819
08/22/11 01:37 PM
08/22/11 01:37 PM

R
resa0210
Unregistered
resa0210
Unregistered
R



As a new glider mommy and a new member to GC, I may be out of place here but this post seems to have caused a lot of hate and upset.

I am very sorry for your loss Nancy.

Again I am sorry if I am out of line but cant this post be locked and the op make a new thread with any other questions they may have now that all this has gone on. It just seems to be so much anger on a site that I thought was very caring and could talk to each other about things without all the virtual chokeholds...

If my post is against the rules or out of line please delete it. It is just kinda scary to new owners and members to see this much fighting when they come to the forums.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: hushpuppy] #1164820
08/22/11 01:37 PM
08/22/11 01:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer
Jos  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
I find it appalling that Candy has been essentially bullied into removing her diet from HER OWN website.

I'm a firm believer in owner accountablity.

If my pets got sick from something I gave them, that's MY fault. The diet may not be right for MY gliders, but others may have no issue with it. They may have had an allergy to something in it, or perhaps they had a sensitive digestive track.

That is not Candy's fault, in fact, from all the different accounts I've read only a VERY small percentage of people actually had problems with the diet.

I'm truly at a loss, I thought this was a place to go for help and advice but lately all I've been seeing is the opposite. There is a great push for HPW complete and Plus and everyone is singing it's praises. I'm still unsure it's good as it hasn't been around long enough, but who am I to judge.

If you have a problem with a diet. Don't use it. Don't complain about it either though if it's working for other people.

But sadly in this case the squeaky wheel got the oil without any help to Candy to find out exactly what part of the diet MAY have caused the issue. Bravo. Bravo.


Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164839
08/22/11 02:35 PM
08/22/11 02:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict
Sherri  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
Ok, so here is a little bit of info for all of you saying that people have bullied Candy into anything.

Actually the truth is that all people wanted is that she have her diet and her gliders tested to see if there was a problem. But since she refuses to do either than what are people to expect when there are sick and dying gliders that the only common factor is that they were eating The Blended diet?

I think everyone would have been happy with aknowledgement that Candy was interested in doing these tests. Instead she took it upon herself to pull her diet. And not do anything about the concerns that others had.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164846
08/22/11 03:06 PM
08/22/11 03:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian
Marz  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
I don't want to comment on diets specifically but about the glider that died. Did anyone take into account there may have been an underlying cause why it had malnutrition?

Firstly there is malabsorption (difficulty absorbing nutrients from food).Who is to say the glider in question didn't have a condition that affected adequete nutrition absorption? Were the other gliders in the cage tested to see if they were suffering from malnutrition too? If the diet was the cause, there should have been signs that the other gliders were to some extent affected also.

Secondly preferred food preference could have been a cause also. When you have more than one glider in the cage, it is often difficult to control or note what each individual glider is consuming. Often like a child, they will fill up on their favourite foods first! Maybe it was the last to eat (by preference or colony rank!) and there was little choice left. Without careful observation it can be hard to tell.

I dealt with someone who had a glider that starting showing signs of malnutrition despite a fairly good diet. However, on further investigation, like a child, it ate it's fill on only what it wanted and not what it needed. The other gliders were fine and the owner didn't notice that this particular glider was not eating across the range of foods fed out each night.With a careful change to the way it was fed, the glider had a good turnaround and today it's nice and healthy.

For this reason alone, I always look at a bigger picture first!

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Marz] #1164849
08/22/11 03:25 PM
08/22/11 03:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer
JeremysDad  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
Originally Posted By: Marz
I don't want to comment on diets specifically but about the glider that died. Did anyone take into account there may have been an underlying cause why it had malnutrition?

Firstly there is malabsorption (difficulty absorbing nutrients from food).Who is to say the glider in question didn't have a condition that affected adequete nutrition absorption? Were the other gliders in the cage tested to see if they were suffering from malnutrition too? If the diet was the cause, there should have been signs that the other gliders were to some extent affected also.

Secondly preferred food preference could have been a cause also. When you have more than one glider in the cage, it is often difficult to control or note what each individual glider is consuming. Often like a child, they will fill up on their favourite foods first! Maybe it was the last to eat (by preference or colony rank!) and there was little choice left. Without careful observation it can be hard to tell.

I dealt with someone who had a glider that starting showing signs of malnutrition despite a fairly good diet. However, on further investigation, like a child, it ate it's fill on only what it wanted and not what it needed. The other gliders were fine and the owner didn't notice that this particular glider was not eating across the range of foods fed out each night.With a careful change to the way it was fed, the glider had a good turnaround and today it's nice and healthy.

For this reason alone, I always look at a bigger picture first!
That's what I was thinking!


Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: Jos] #1164851
08/22/11 03:38 PM
08/22/11 03:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
JeremysDad Offline
Glider Explorer
JeremysDad  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
Originally Posted By: Jos
I find it appalling that Candy has been essentially bullied into removing her diet from HER OWN website.

I'm a firm believer in owner accountablity.

If my pets got sick from something I gave them, that's MY fault. The diet may not be right for MY gliders, but others may have no issue with it. They may have had an allergy to something in it, or perhaps they had a sensitive digestive track.

That is not Candy's fault, in fact, from all the different accounts I've read only a VERY small percentage of people actually had problems with the diet.

I'm truly at a loss, I thought this was a place to go for help and advice but lately all I've been seeing is the opposite. There is a great push for HPW complete and Plus and everyone is singing it's praises. I'm still unsure it's good as it hasn't been around long enough, but who am I to judge.

If you have a problem with a diet. Don't use it. Don't complain about it either though if it's working for other people.

But sadly in this case the squeaky wheel got the oil without any help to Candy to find out exactly what part of the diet MAY have caused the issue. Bravo. Bravo.
Totally agree. I was told there are ingredients in HPW complete that are not safe for gliders, yet you hear a lot of people have their gliders on it.


Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164853
08/22/11 03:48 PM
08/22/11 03:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
the problem is not just abt. a glider dying on this diet but of many other gliders from different owners that were pulling joeys, losing hair and getting sick. the one common denomination in all of this is they were feeding the blended diet. this tells me that something is not right in
this particular diet.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164875
08/22/11 05:17 PM
08/22/11 05:17 PM

N
newfuzzyflyermom
Unregistered
newfuzzyflyermom
Unregistered
N



Ben, as a newbie myself all I can tell you is that I have been using HPW complete for 2 months and they love it. Like people I think gliders may react differently to diets. I know I won't eat veggies but remain healthy while there are some people out there that don't eat meat and remain healthy. Do your research, try one, and see how they do. I know this is a touchy subject just since I have been on here but just do the best you can and watch your gliders closely. Until more is known about gliders and their care we are all just doing our best for the ones we love. Am I right everyone?

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: ] #1164934
08/22/11 07:48 PM
08/22/11 07:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 353
TN
JazzNZoeysMom Offline
Glider Lover
JazzNZoeysMom  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 353
TN
Originally Posted By: newfuzzyflyermom
Until more is known about gliders and their care we are all just doing our best for the ones we love. Am I right everyone?



Absolutely agree!

JeremysDad,... I'm wondering what ingredients in the HPW COMPLETE are not good for gliders? IMO, with a thread this heated, statements like that shouldn't just be thrown out there. It would be more beneficial to those of us that are confused to say something on the order of, "the ????? in HPW has been proven to be bad for gliders,..." and then back it up with whatever proof you have. diet is a hot button topic, especially now, & if you know there is an ingredient that is bad, how can we question the "creator" if we don't know what it is & why or who has deemed it bad? I'm just saying cuz I feed HPW COMPLETE & if it may injure my gliders I would really like to know, and I believe Peggy would appreciate the opportunity to fix any potential problems. Thanks!


LuvMyGliderBabies

Jasper :grey: Zoey :grey: Mala :grey: Kodah :grey:
Ariana :grey: And the twins~ Aerwen :wfb: Caci
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164952
08/22/11 08:36 PM
08/22/11 08:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
B
B3N Offline OP
Joey Member
B3N  Offline OP
Joey Member
B

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
Wow, this thread got really intense. I tried to keep quiet being mostly new to glider diets in general but wow, just wow. I have already sent Candy a personal email with my sincere apologies. I know nothing about feeding her diet since the original post was a question on whether the concerns with it were resolved or not but I feel sad.

I saw the blended as a "best of both worlds" since it included the top two diets in its' contents.

I've heard nothing but praise for HPW Complete and being upfront will probably try that as my first diet to see how my gliders, when I get them, will take to it.

I've seen some newbies put in their two cents in this thread as well and as a partial newbie myself, it IS very scary to see the comments that have been made.

I'm proud of Candy's composure when she decided to do what she did in relation to her diet. She stated that she was being burned at the stake yet in that final post on this thread she neither pointed fingers or laid blame. Thank you Candy, for being a respectful person.

I do hope that this thread continues in a more pleasant manner. Lets get back to what GC was known for: being a place to learn without prejudices. Stand by what most have said and if there were problems with diets, bring it TO the creator in a PM so as not to raise any panic or alarm.

With enough input from enough people through a PM, I'm certain that the creator of a diet that may cause problems will do the right thing in the name of the gliders and announce that their diet may or may not be harmful.

I want the old GC back. I miss the niceties. Once again, Candy, I truly am sorry. Much love to you and your babies.

Much love to everyone and THEIR babies as well.


Benjamin K.
Suggie Lover

"Even the dawn has trouble hiding the stars; shine for all you're worth." - Me

"My Patronus is a Sugar Glider!" - Me

"Step one is moving. It doesn't really matter how you move. What matters is that you do." - Unknown
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1164962
08/22/11 08:58 PM
08/22/11 08:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
holelottaRosie Offline
Glider Explorer
holelottaRosie  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
It's really sad that when you have a bunch of people that are very passionate about something that this is what you get. Let's all be honest and admit NONE of us are experts...we have opinions, beliefs and what has worked for us in the past...we are ALL learning...If you believe a diet is bad or a toy is unsafe or anything like that...then don't use it...most of the time I don't post here and just read...I listen to what the people I respect think and then make up my own mind for better or worse. Einstein once said " anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"...so Peggy,Candy and Bourbon ( sorry if I've left anyone out) are at least trying things for the betterment of all gliders...you may agree or disagree with something they say or do...but attacking them is just plain wrong....if you disagree with me....that's fine...attack away...I'm a big boy and can take it....but lets all try and remember why we are here....we all love gliders


Gary
Servant to
Mia & Rosie :grey: Delilah :wfb:
Piper,Phoebe and Paige :grey: "The Charmed Ones"
My Connie babies Liam & Lilith :bb: And Sparrow :rtmo:
3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley
1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great"
1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: holelottaRosie] #1165006
08/22/11 10:50 PM
08/22/11 10:50 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Benjamin, it was certainly not your fault this turned into what it did. You just asked some diet questions, based upon what you had read. There is always so much history and background in the glider community that many of us aren’t aware of. This is a very passionate group, and diet seems to be one of the most controversial issues.

Anita, believe me, I am tempted to just throw some ice cream, Cheerios, granola bars or whatever else I can find into the glider bowls. (Just an example that came into my head and am not implying that you feed that!) Nothing about gliders has caused me as much worry and confusion as diet in the past 3 years. All we can do is try to make the best decision we can, based upon the vast pool of information available. Ultimately, it is our decision, and I have accepted the responsibility for mine.

Marz, as I mentioned on another forum, anything is possible. All I have are vet reports, a necropsy report, fecals, physical exams, ELISA tests, and I can't even remember what else. Zoey had two cagemates. None of them had any weight loss, lethargy or what I thought would be symptoms of malnutrition. They were given enough food so that there was at least some left in the bowl in the morning. No, I didn’t watch to make sure who ate what. I keep charts of my glider’s weights when I trim nails every two to three weeks. There was no weight loss for the last few weights I recorded. There were no signs of food aggression - the only sound out of that cage is crabbing from the pouch from the older grumpy female when I reached in the cage to remove the bowl in the morning.

Candy made her own decision to take her diet off her website. She posted that she did it, I looked and it was still there, so I posted. It does not matter to me if it is there or not. I would have preferred some answers to the valid questions that were being asked. These are questions I should have sought answers to in September 2010. My bad. I guess there are no answers.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: hushpuppy] #1165058
08/23/11 01:02 AM
08/23/11 01:02 AM

H
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
HisSugaMomma
Unregistered
H



Originally Posted By: hushpuppy

I just have to wonder...What do you guys say to someone like myself who never followed ANY diet and rarely added ANY suppliments? BTW Lillie will soon be 12 and I have 3 that are 10. So I'm not sure how feeding a diet that is supposed to be a combination of BML and HPW can cause malnutrition. I didn't see the original post but I wonder if there was some underlying problem that caused malnutrition? Nancy, I am very sorry that you lost one of your babies because I know how very much you love them. But I really don't understand how a diet that provides so many nutrients can be cause malnutrition when I've never worried about all that stuff myself???




Originally Posted By: HisSugaMomma

There are so many issues with everything. I am going to use the wheel as an example (because I did not see the original post with this specific issue) I have seen people lose their babies due to the stelth because of being behind the wheel while another glider is running and it snapping their neck. So again, everything has their cautions.



Would you please PM me specifics on that. I've never heard about that and we like to check into those kinds of things. So far all the reports that we have had turned out to be nothing but we still like to check it out. Now I'm sure that animals can get hurt on any wheel, and when it does happen on ours, it will break my heart. But please just let me know so I can look into it.


This issue was in a forum that was posted at, if I remember right, Sugarglider.com...I am very sorry that I don't really have the specifics. Although I did make a couple posts on this forum...So I know that what I was reading was what I was reading.

Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1165124
08/23/11 05:33 AM
08/23/11 05:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
E
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover
eshaw  Offline
Glider Lover
E

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
I'm going along with what Gary said. I'd also like to reiterate that just because something didn't work for you or isn't of the popular opinion, that doesn't make something bad. Maybe it's not the diet that is the problem. Maybe some of you are getting tainted ingredients??? You never know now days.
I like to try things out and see what happens and I know this makes some of the old timers on here unhappy, or makes them think what's the use. I don't consider this reinventing the wheel. Will I knowingly put a glider in harms way? No. But it's also up to me and you to be responsible for your glider and live with the consequences or your actions. If you want to experiment with cage bar size, diets, wheels or what have you it's your decision. This site is basically a compilation of lessons learned from what I've seen so far. If you don't try things on your own nothing will ever change.

Last edited by eshaw; 08/23/11 05:35 AM.
Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: B3N] #1165156
08/23/11 09:23 AM
08/23/11 09:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Nancy, no offense taken. Heck fire we's bed buddies. And once I looked back, I do remember you telling us about Zoey. Gosh, that seems like an eternity ago, but it was just last month.

Ice cream and cheerios? I wouldn't take it that far. OK, well maybe a little taste out of my bowl occasionally. Lol But what I'm trying to say it that I have tried all the diets at one time or another and I just don't have the discipline to stick with it and the gliders seem to be doing OK.

My vet told me that the average sugar glider death that she sees in her office is 2 – 4 yrs old. And the facts seem to say that lots of gliders are dying young; even those that are on good approved diets. There is just so much that we don't know about these little creatures. And the last report that I had from the Sugar group shows something like 25% (didn't look it up, so that's from memory) of glider deaths are directly due to liver problems. That is a huge number.

Yep, I'm going to put a shameless plug here. This is one of the reasons that the work that the SUGAR group does is so important. If there is evidence that there is a deficiency in any of the diets, It will show up in their research. Until something definitely rears it's head, we all just have to do the best that we can do.

Something is for sure going on with so many babies dieing so young, but we just haven't been able to put our finger on it and we might never be able to. It could be diet related, it could be heredity, it could be related to enrichment, exercise, exposure to chemicals. Who knows?

I know that for me, I have lightened up a little and stopped kicking myself for not doing everything perfect. I know the risks and I'm willing to take them. Since I gave myself permission to be imperfect, I have had much more enjoyment with my fur brats. And heck yeah, they will fight me over a Popsicle on a stick. They don't want the stinkin' piece that I broke off and put in a bowl for them. They want the whole stick. LOL Ungrateful little boogers!

I don't want to take this post too far off but I did go over to GG and did a search but I didn't come up with anything. I just want people to know if there is ever an injury, please let me know. We really do care about the safety of our products.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook



Re: HPW Complete? Candy's Blended? [Re: hwh4ev] #1166658
08/27/11 12:48 AM
08/27/11 12:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 448
Colorado, USA
Paani Offline
Glider Lover
Paani  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 448
Colorado, USA
Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
what is so stupid abt. taking a diet off the market that
has proven to hurt/kill our gliders.

if you concocted a new diet and started pushing/advertising
other gliders to eat it and they started getting sick and worse would you still promote your diet. i dont think so. for the good of the glider and not your pride you would pull it and try to find out what went wrong.

dont understand your logic on this one.

the question here was asked hpw complete? or blended?
the question was answered good and bad. if you dont want to hear the good with the bad how would you expect to learn what is and isnt good for your gliders?

these problems were brought up months ago and nothing was done to stop or fix the diet and the creator of this diet was aware.
candy is fixing this issue the way she sees fit.

regards,
nancy in detroit


I actually don't understand YOUR logic or those that say the diet has to be "stopped or fixed" because SOME people had issues. There seem to be a LOT of gliders doing quite well using her diet and the fact of the matter is that a LOT of things can cause an organism to suffer from malnutrition (dietary behavior, parasites, bad production of key ingredients, etc.). If the diet was really lacking something then you'd expect the MAJORITY (if not all) of gliders on it to be dying of malnutrition.

Eliminating references to other diets in her calculator was all good if the nutritional calculations were incorrect but Candy has done more than I think she needed to because I'm not at all convinced it needed "to be stopped or fixed". She built it on very sound dietary and nutrition principles and pulled information from an authoritative source.


Judah :grey: Nala, Ronald & Reuel (formerly Eladio & Petal) :plat:
Anson :rbridge: Lele :rbridge: Laki :rbridge:
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver 

Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Lynsie), 31 guests, and 265 spiders.
Key: , , Owner, Admin
Newest Members
SugarFloof, Stormi, ivy, Ravenmadison1433, JUICYB
6967 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums132
Topics9,881
Posts156,253
posts in the last 24hrs0
Members6,967
Most Online1,230
Jul 28th, 2019
Last 10 New Topics
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 03:04 PM
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 03:01 PM
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 02:59 PM
Joeys from Lucky You Gliders
by Lynsie. 09/15/19 02:58 PM
Traveling with Gliders in RV**
by . 09/12/19 12:05 AM
Which Gender is best for colony?
by SugarFloof. 09/11/19 06:40 PM
Critter Love® Has JOEYS!!!
by Srlb. 09/10/19 06:21 PM
A good home needed
by TheSGirlCrew. 09/05/19 04:50 PM
A good home needed
by TheSGirlCrew. 09/05/19 04:46 PM
A good home needed
by TheSGirlCrew. 09/05/19 04:44 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
785,473 TEXAS
628,010 OHIO
434,236 OKLAHOMA
384,443 UTAH
282,071 NORTH CAROLINA
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!
Home Forums Links Sitemap Vets Breeders Sounds Contact Us Names Rules & Policies

GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2019
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software
(Release build 20180918)
Page Time: 0.064s Queries: 15 (0.012s) Memory: 1.5387 MB (Peak: 1.9601 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2019-09-15 19:57:31 UTC