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Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237470
03/09/12 04:27 PM
03/09/12 04:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave
kjgoulet  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
I'm with you Nancy, I would sell them to be loved on and spoiled versus stress with babies on their bodies. But everybody will have their own opinion.. What's that saying, can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink lol! We can all push our views on it but in the end it's no up to us unless we're contacted to put a mate with said joey.


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237489
03/09/12 05:28 PM
03/09/12 05:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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Big Sandy TN
I can't speak for everyone that has had joey's affected with this, I can only speak of what "I" know.

I know that one of my "ick" babies that is being bred is staying here and being bred by me. "I" will be doing everything in my power to make sure that the joey's are healthy if or when they leave my home.

I know that one of Nadines gliders is going into a breeding program and I know that the person that got that joey is going to do the same as I am.

I know that the 2 of us do plan on neutering the males "IF" there is a problem with breeding these 2 affected gliders.

What I "don't" know is what has happened to all the other affected joey's out there that have had "ick". There are quite a few more joey's out there that have or had this that people aren't talking about openly.

And for Nadine and I to be constantly brought up because we ARE the ones that are keeping people informed is really not fair to us considering the amount of others out there that have been affected, that haven't said anything.

Yes I'm breeding Bits, no I'm not breeding Abigail. Abigail has been through enough. I WILL be doing blood work on Bits, Abigail and their momma regularly and what other random/scheduled tests I need to do to make sure that they remain healthy and have no long term affects.

I do admit things that go on in my house when it comes to my gliders. I do not point fingers, I do not try to connect the dots and cause a panic, I do not try and blame diet or try to link it to a gathering or a vets office or lineage. I will not cause an uproar that its anyone elses fault but my own that my gliders got sick.

I do not obssess over spotless cages, I did not quarentine my gliders who were affected and I did not change diets.

All of my other gliders are perfectly healthy and none of my other joey's were affected. I did not panic and cause any more undo stress on my other gliders.

I am a firm believer that stress is the root to most all sickness. It has been proven with people, so why not the same in animals?


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237494
03/09/12 05:53 PM
03/09/12 05:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
sherri,
you have been very up front with all of us. the other people that have had this problem are silent and yet another is not telling the whole story of all their
test results.

i respect you and some of the others that are keeping us updated, and so do a whole lot of other glider people.

i didnt think anybody was singling you out but you and tracy are the only ones that are telling us what is going on and with updates, nobody else is- that has been affected
by this.

i do hope your joeys are all very healthy.

people are afraid of this because we dont know what
the future holds for these joeys, but time will tell the
story.

good luck and hugs sent to you,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237499
03/09/12 06:08 PM
03/09/12 06:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
I couldn't agree more with Nancy. Sherri, I don't mean to point you out as a "negative" thing, only because you ARE being so open and honest with everyone (an example of how the others should be) about your joeys.

We know of your joeys, Nadine's joeys and Tracy's. There ARE others out there that are not posting about them and that is sad because it limits our ability to find answers. I can only hope that they are working behind the scenes to help find the answers.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237503
03/09/12 06:18 PM
03/09/12 06:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
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kjgoulet  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
I too Sherri wasn't trying to say anything negative about you, just what I would personally do. What you've done for Abigail (saw the pics and she looks amazing btw) and are continuing to do by keeping everyone informed, is beyond what could've been asked. I in NO way was trying to upset you hug2

With that said, your last post alone just shows how passionate you are about this. I didn't realize that Bits was in your home being bred, I'll keep all these behbehz in my thoughts and hope everyone has healthy joeys from here on out smile

PS. Abigail has stolen my heart lol!


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237505
03/09/12 06:23 PM
03/09/12 06:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
I know that people aren't specifically trying to point us out. I really do believe that. I also just believe that since we are the only ones that have come forward, we are automatically thought of. Thats all I meant by it. There are quite a few others that have had "ick" babies that haven't said anything publicly and this is exactly why.

Nadine and I will always have a stigma of being the breeders with "ick". I guess that is something that I will have to live with.


I also don't think its fair to label all joey's with "ick" as having tritrich (no matter what the strain)until its proven that said joey's do in fact have it.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: Sherri] #1237507
03/09/12 06:28 PM
03/09/12 06:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
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kjgoulet  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
Originally Posted By: Sherri


I also don't think its fair to label all joey's with "ick" as having tritrich (no matter what the strain)until its proven that said joey's do in fact have it.


That is true.. It's like saying all construction workers are sexy lmao! Which isn't always true tounge


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237513
03/09/12 06:58 PM
03/09/12 06:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
Nadine and I will always have a stigma of being the breeders with "ick".


I don't see this as a "stigma" I see it as an unfortunate event. What I DO see is how you two have fought for the health of your joeys. I see this as a positive.

I also agree that the "ick" joeys should not be labled as having trich UNTIL it is proven. But by the same standards, it needs to be kept in mind that it could be and these joeys need to be "followed" to see if it turns up again with them or their offspring (or even cage mates). Not as a negative thing but to LEARN from them.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237514
03/09/12 07:02 PM
03/09/12 07:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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Springfield/Eugene, OR
So--what is the suggested quarantine on the tri trich? Some people here are saying it *could* take years to be rid of. Does that mean a breeder with tri trich should be locked down? No joeys adopted out to prevent the spread, and no new gliders in to become infected? What happens if we find out this tri trich really isn't going to go away completely for years or ever? If the infected gliders are adopted out, it will just spread further. I can see how this parasite could become a parasite that is found in every glider if individuals from infected populations are allowed to leave and sire new infections in the next home, and so on. What does a breeder with many breeding pairs do in a situation like that? Neuter everyone and keep the last wave of joeys and the parents? It doesn't sound like letting any of them leave your home is a responsible idea until we have a clear picture of the nature of this buggy and how it interacts with a sugar glider's system...but where does that leave someone that has a large breeding program? What if someone like, say, Priscilla got trich? She is not going to turn her breeding population into pets. It seems to me like there is a high risk someone like Priscilla might get infected, too.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237517
03/09/12 07:28 PM
03/09/12 07:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave
kjgoulet  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
I thought Priscilla had a case that was similar to the "ick" joeys we've been seeing recently, except her case was a while back? I don't have my notes (yes my dorky behind was taking notes when this first started to appear lol) downstairs with me at the moment. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure her name came up as someone who had it in the past and nobody knew what it really was?


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237523
03/09/12 07:44 PM
03/09/12 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
yes, priscilla but it was around in 2003.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237524
03/09/12 07:44 PM
03/09/12 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
duplicate.

Last edited by hwh4ev; 03/09/12 07:45 PM.

regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237528
03/09/12 07:50 PM
03/09/12 07:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Were those joeys sold as breeders as well?


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237530
03/09/12 07:51 PM
03/09/12 07:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave
kjgoulet  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
dunno


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: Chris_R] #1237542
03/09/12 08:15 PM
03/09/12 08:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline OP
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline OP
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Chris_R
The only known way to "break the cycle" is to perform a C-sect so the offspring is not passing through the birth canal where it gets infected. That mother is then culled from the breeding program as is the male that bred her, unfortunately this is not an option in our sugar gliders...


I assume by this comment, that it is only passed through the mating and birthing process? If that's the case, then I'm going to disagree with the majority of your comment quoted above. Obviously we cannot do c-sections on gliders - that I agree with. But if a breeder finds they definitively have tri-trich, then IMO it would be the responsible thing to neuter that male and keep that pair together as a non-breeding pair. That would break the cycle for that pair. Then, that breeder would have the unfortunate responsibility of updating the database and notifying the owners of any previous joeys so they can be informed as well.

I do realize though, that the problem is accurate diagnosis.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237543
03/09/12 08:16 PM
03/09/12 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline OP
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline OP
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North Central Ohio
I also assume that if it's only passed through mating/birthing, no other gliders in the same household would be at risk. Correct?


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237563
03/09/12 08:54 PM
03/09/12 08:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
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Minneapolis, MN
When the ick was at my home. It was a bacteria on their skin, and it spread when I was weighing joeys (I wasn't as picky about handwashing between every single cage as I am now). Only the joeys that I was handling got icky. Once I started to wash my hands between every single cage, it didn't affect any more joeys.

And for an official update on the ick joeys from my house and their siblings:

Tommy - grew perfectly healthy after ick, I felt he was fine to breed. His owner will neuter him so fast your head would spin if he were to have any problems with himself or any joeys. He had another fecal sent to Idexx before he left and it was perfect. He also had a set of twin brothers that were perfectly fine.

Cadence - He healed perfectly and completely, he never had to be pulled from his parents or any major complications (besides not eating for a little while). He is going for breeding as well, and his new mommy will also neuter if there are any complications. He has a younger brother who is 6 weeks OOP now. Reagan is perfectly fine and will stay here.

Kismet - She took the longest to heal, but she did. She went to a pet only home with Tommy's neutered brothers. Her parents know to contact me if there are any problems, and we are checking in often. Kismet lived with her parents until she was about 4 months old. Her sister was 4 weeks when
Kismet left. her sister did not have any problems at all, she was actually a fat joey.

Romeo - He died from a tube feeding accident while in the worst part of the ick. I got a necropsy on him, and that is where the idea of tritrich was dispelled (until now). If he had an intestinal parasite, the lining of his intestines would have shown clear signs of infection... there were none. There was also nothing to see besides the bacterias (one native, one the problem). His parents are going to be retired, but its due to her milk production and NOT the ick. His little sister needed to be hand-fed but stayed with her parents during that time. She never got the ick or any other problems (went as pet only with Kismet's sister).

All my other cages were unaffected and continue to be so. We treated with Baytril and (when we were thinking trich) Metronidizole. The healthy joeys (after ick) never got the metronidizole, and it didn't seem to do much for my colony.

Everything here started with a UTI in Cadence's mom. It was treated, but when she peed on him, she contaminated him with that bacteria. We had a high humidity level at that time, which allowed the bacteria to spread and thrive. Once each joey was on baytril, they recovered quickly. My joeys NEVER lost their fur (although Cadence's parents pulled most of his belly fur off) and they all recovered from their ordeal.

I think it is about responsibility... but how many people breed and sell gliders who have had giardia? The same vets who said that tritrich is incurable ALSO believe that giardia is incurable.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237622
03/09/12 10:53 PM
03/09/12 10:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
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Chris_R  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Originally Posted By: Chris_R
The only known way to "break the cycle" is to perform a C-sect so the offspring is not passing through the birth canal where it gets infected. That mother is then culled from the breeding program as is the male that bred her, unfortunately this is not an option in our sugar gliders...


I assume by this comment, that it is only passed through the mating and birthing process? If that's the case, then I'm going to disagree with the majority of your comment quoted above. Obviously we cannot do c-sections on gliders - that I agree with. But if a breeder finds they definitively have tri-trich, then IMO it would be the responsible thing to neuter that male and keep that pair together as a non-breeding pair. That would break the cycle for that pair. Then, that breeder would have the unfortunate responsibility of updating the database and notifying the owners of any previous joeys so they can be informed as well.

I do realize though, that the problem is accurate diagnosis.


It is believed to be so in the other species, but unfortunetly they also do NOT act the same as our gliders do... When I have spoken to different researchers about this I explained that our gliders groom each other (yes, other species do this and it is not considered to be a means of transmission amongst these other species), that they are scent animals and even the females will urinate while rubbing their cloaca on the bars of the cage, at which point, another glider will commonly come RIGHT behind and mark over this spot with their own scent by doing the same. Given just that scenerio, I could not be promised that it would NOT be carried over to the others that way, as it would be considered a "sexual act" in that regards (transferring of bodily fluids via a kind of direct contact)... Hope that makes sense and helps to explain it more, I am TERRIBLE at trying to get my thoughts into written word whilst not getting to techinical on everyone and have you walking away scratching your heads saying "HUH??? what the heck is she talking about??" lol

Also need to add that alot of these other species also have two different "exits" for bodily fluids, one port for urine which is also access for "sexual acts" and one port for feces. Our gliders have one port, the cloaca in which both urine and feces exit and in which the "sexual acts" are done (sorry for my lack of terms here but my brain is refusing to bring anything forward, grandson wore me the heck out and Im running on empty lol)


Last edited by Chris_R; 03/09/12 11:07 PM.
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: Chris_R] #1237641
03/09/12 11:56 PM
03/09/12 11:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
I also posted this link over on LGG for anyone who may want to contact these guys and find out about testing. They specialize in Exotics and I hear they run some pretty thorough testings. I'm sure if given the opportunity, they will be able to find out what is going on or at least rule out what is not going on.

http://zoologix.com/zoo/index.htm


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237643
03/10/12 12:02 AM
03/10/12 12:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline OP
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline OP
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
That makes sense. So that brings another thought to mind.

1 - If gliders do not co-habitate an area, then it should not be able to be transmitted to each other. Meaning, if I have two cages, one cage couldn't get it from the other. Correct?

2 - Playtime would have to be in glider specific areas, not shared. That would mean a separate tent for the "infected" gliders. Otherwise, them marking the tent and another cage following behind, would become infected? Also, as in a quarantine situation, you would always play with the non-infected cage first.

3 - If you were able to keep the infected cage completely separate from the other cage, would their toys/fleece be interchangeable between the infected and non-infected cage? Or would it "live" through washing and sanitizing?


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237647
03/10/12 12:13 AM
03/10/12 12:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Good post Mary, Peggy found us a link to a laboratory. We have to get to the bottom of Cabs issue.
http://zoologix.com/zoo/index.htm

Last edited by GliderNursery; 03/10/12 12:35 AM. Reason: edited text

USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237648
03/10/12 12:15 AM
03/10/12 12:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
JeremysDad Offline
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JeremysDad  Offline
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Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
If it's only spread by mating & birthing why can't the original poster in the thread adopt cora's gliders?


Jeremy, Lexie and Zoey
Mimi & Pepper, Skeeter, Beaker & Alladin, Nell & Ling
Group Leader - Mill Breeder Project
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237653
03/10/12 12:26 AM
03/10/12 12:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
because even if he is neutered they still try to mate. One of the girls was handraised from maybe 4 weeks oop so her system may not be strong enough to fight it off. . AND we dont know which strain he has to know exactly how its transmitted. Different strains are transmitted differently. None are airborn.


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: JeremysDad] #1237656
03/10/12 12:39 AM
03/10/12 12:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline OP
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GliderNursery  Offline OP
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Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Thanks for the link Peggy! Maybe some additional testing can be done to get some definitive answers! smile

Originally Posted By: JeremysDad
If it's only spread by mating & birthing why can't the original poster in the thread adopt cora's gliders?


According to Chris_R, it's possible to be spread through urine/fecal matter since it uses the same tract. If that's the case, any glider in the same cage/play area could become infected.


Shelly

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Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: Chris_R] #1237667
03/10/12 01:12 AM
03/10/12 01:12 AM
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Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chris_R
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Originally Posted By: Chris_R
The only known way to "break the cycle" is to perform a C-sect so the offspring is not passing through the birth canal where it gets infected. That mother is then culled from the breeding program as is the male that bred her, unfortunately this is not an option in our sugar gliders...


I assume by this comment, that it is only passed through the mating and birthing process? If that's the case, then I'm going to disagree with the majority of your comment quoted above. Obviously we cannot do c-sections on gliders - that I agree with. But if a breeder finds they definitively have tri-trich, then IMO it would be the responsible thing to neuter that male and keep that pair together as a non-breeding pair. That would break the cycle for that pair. Then, that breeder would have the unfortunate responsibility of updating the database and notifying the owners of any previous joeys so they can be informed as well.

I do realize though, that the problem is accurate diagnosis.


It is believed to be so in the other species, but unfortunetly they also do NOT act the same as our gliders do... When I have spoken to different researchers about this I explained that our gliders groom each other (yes, other species do this and it is not considered to be a means of transmission amongst these other species), that they are scent animals and even the females will urinate while rubbing their cloaca on the bars of the cage, at which point, another glider will commonly come RIGHT behind and mark over this spot with their own scent by doing the same. Given just that scenerio, I could not be promised that it would NOT be carried over to the others that way, as it would be considered a "sexual act" in that regards (transferring of bodily fluids via a kind of direct contact)... Hope that makes sense and helps to explain it more, I am TERRIBLE at trying to get my thoughts into written word whilst not getting to techinical on everyone and have you walking away scratching your heads saying "HUH??? what the heck is she talking about??" lol

Also need to add that alot of these other species also have two different "exits" for bodily fluids, one port for urine which is also access for "sexual acts" and one port for feces. Our gliders have one port, the cloaca in which both urine and feces exit and in which the "sexual acts" are done (sorry for my lack of terms here but my brain is refusing to bring anything forward, grandson wore me the heck out and Im running on empty lol)



Loud and clear to me! Makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explanation.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237672
03/10/12 01:33 AM
03/10/12 01:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
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Chris_R  Offline
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Northwest Missouri
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
That makes sense. So that brings another thought to mind.

1 - If gliders do not co-habitate an area, then it should not be able to be transmitted to each other. Meaning, if I have two cages, one cage couldn't get it from the other. Correct?

2 - Playtime would have to be in glider specific areas, not shared. That would mean a separate tent for the "infected" gliders. Otherwise, them marking the tent and another cage following behind, would become infected? Also, as in a quarantine situation, you would always play with the non-infected cage first.



3 - If you were able to keep the infected cage completely separate from the other cage, would their toys/fleece be interchangeable between the infected and non-infected cage? Or would it "live" through washing and sanitizing?



1. Correct as long as you try to use as sterile of a technique when going between cages (ie WASH YOUR HANDS)

2. Again, correct

3. Trich doesnt have a cyst stage (almost bomb proof shell_, so normal washing and drying should absolutely kill it

Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: Chris_R] #1237678
03/10/12 01:48 AM
03/10/12 01:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chris_R
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
That makes sense. So that brings another thought to mind.

1 - If gliders do not co-habitate an area, then it should not be able to be transmitted to each other. Meaning, if I have two cages, one cage couldn't get it from the other. Correct?

2 - Playtime would have to be in glider specific areas, not shared. That would mean a separate tent for the "infected" gliders. Otherwise, them marking the tent and another cage following behind, would become infected? Also, as in a quarantine situation, you would always play with the non-infected cage first.



3 - If you were able to keep the infected cage completely separate from the other cage, would their toys/fleece be interchangeable between the infected and non-infected cage? Or would it "live" through washing and sanitizing?



1. Correct as long as you try to use as sterile of a technique when going between cages (ie WASH YOUR HANDS)

2. Again, correct

3. Trich doesnt have a cyst stage (almost bomb proof shell_, so normal washing and drying should absolutely kill it


Would freezing an item be a reliable way of killing the parasite? I'm just thinking, if you washed the plastic toys and wanted to be sure, you could stick them in a bag and pop them in the freezer, would that work?


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237732
03/10/12 10:02 AM
03/10/12 10:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
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Chris_R  Offline
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Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Sticking them in the sun would be a more viable option, even Giardia cyts are subsceptible to UV rays, given enough time and making sure every little nook has had its time in the sun, I dry my coonie cages (wildlife rescue) all day long in the sun once Ive sterilized them, turning every few hours to make sure to get all those crannies....

Everyone that knows me... knows how adamant I am about NOT taking risks of transmission of the raccoon round worm called Baylisascaris

Also, most toys are plastic, freezing them could make the plastic brittle

Trich is not a hardy little critter outside of its host. Normally it dies within the hour (20-30 min average). While in the host most trichs eat the hosts carbs and produce a byproduct from eating the host carbs that is a caustic ammonia (smells like pee!), this reduces the PH in the gut. This not only sets up the gut for its own "bloom" but other oppertunistic organisms to bloom also (yeast, staph, strep) and for some of those other naturally occuring "bad" gut flora (remember it takes a balance of the good and the bad for a healthy gut)to "bloom" over the good. There are actually certain "bad yeast" (and others) that will via against the Trich and take over, because its "stronger" than the Trich. Although it wont completely wipe out the Trich, it can drastically reduce the Trichs numbers to something that would not be seen without a PCR. Also why adding probiotics to the treatment can be a vital "turn around" point, because a normal ph gut will also help to keep everything else "at bay".

Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: GliderNursery] #1237867
03/10/12 06:36 PM
03/10/12 06:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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Springfield/Eugene, OR
What about a UV light? Would it be strong enough if you wanted to leave it underneath a UV light for a while, and turn it the same way? How long would be ideal? I know people around my area, or Tracy's, wouldn't always be able to use the sun. Up here in the NW we can go for weeks without real sun.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: Tritrichomonas/Tri Trichs [Re: kitsune] #1237891
03/10/12 08:17 PM
03/10/12 08:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
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tjlong Offline
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T

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Washington
Originally Posted By: kitsune
What about a UV light? Would it be strong enough if you wanted to leave it underneath a UV light for a while, and turn it the same way? How long would be ideal? I know people around my area, or Tracy's, wouldn't always be able to use the sun. Up here in the NW we can go for weeks without real sun.

Hey! We had sunshine 2 days this week!


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