From: Kyrie's Mom [mailto:valkyriemome@aol.com] 

Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2012 

To: wombaroo@adelaide.on.net

Subject: Enquiry from the
www.wombaroo.com.au Web Site
Hello, Mr. and Mrs. Rich,
I am a sugar gliders owner in America. I know you've probably heard of us!
There is a glider owner in the US named Peggy Brewer. Ms. Brewer has developed what she calls her HPW
diet. I'm sure you've heard of that, as well.
This is the
diet as written by her:
• 2 cups warm water
• 1.5 cups honey
• 3 scrambled eggs
• 1/4 cup High Protein Wombaroo Powder (if you have a breeding pair with a nursing or lactating female, increase the amount of HPW Powder to 1/2 cup for the female's HPW
diet)
• *1 TABLEspoon Australian Bee Pollen (or American Bee Pollen)
I feed my sugar gliders a modification of this
diet:
• 1.5 cups warm water
• 1 cup honey
• 2 scrambled eggs
• 1/3 cup High Protein Wombaroo Powder
• 1 TABLEspoon Bee Pollen
• 1 cup "green juice" such as Odwalla "Superfood" (
http://www.odwalla.com/products/Superfood.jsp) or Bolthouse Farms "Green Goodness" (
http://bolthouse.com/our-products/beverages/smoothies/green-goodness/detail)
• 3/4 teaspoon Calcium Carbonate
• 170 mg powdered milk thistle
Both versions are fed with a combination of vegetables and fruit.
If I could be so bold, I respectfully request your opinion/ review of my modifications. I respect your research and knowledge. Here in the US we debate about sugar glider
diets and what is best for our gliders. Whenever there is any kind of forum debate - people comment "Go to the source! Ask Peggy Brewer!" I find that this is good advice, however the wrong source.
I am not trying to claim I invented any kind of
diet using your powder. But I would like your advice and input on how glider owners can best supply our gliders' nutrition. It seems to me that a "nectar base" which includes Wombaroo High Protein Powder is a good starting place.
I am very grateful for any assistance you could offer.
Sincerely,
Alden Bullwinkle
From: Wombaroo/Passwell <wombaroo@adelaide.on.net>
Subject: RE: Enquiry
Date: February 22, 2012
To: Kyrie's Mom valkyriemome@aol.com
Hi Alden,
Thanks for your enquiry regarding Sugar Glider
diets.
As you are probably aware there are many “recipes” that are used to feed Sugar Gliders. Many of these
diets seem unnecessarily complicated and contain an array of ingredients, many of which duplicate the role of one another or offer little additional nutritional value.
Firstly if we look at the wild
diet of Sugar Gliders it comprises mostly of native (Australian) plant secretions (nectar, sap) and insects. Carbohydrate is a major energy source and is mostly provided by the simple and complex sugars found in plant secretions. Protein and fatty acids are mainly provided by the insect component of their
diet. A balance of these dietary sources provides the required levels of vitamins and minerals in the
diet.
In captivity Sugar Gliders readily eat high carbohydrate foods (such as honey, fruit & vegetables) which are suitable sources of energy. However they often miss out on the protein and other essential nutrients that would be supplied by the array of insect eaten in the wild. Providing insects to captive animals is a good start, but it is impractical to try and match the variety that would be consumed in the wild. Wombaroo High Protein Supplement (HPS) was designed to supply the essential protein, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals that captive animal require. Attached is a datasheet for this product.
Wombaroo HPS should be supplied at the rate of 10g per 100g of fruit. This equates to about 10% w/v of a typical “wet”
diet.
Alternatively the product can be made up as a 25% w/v suspension in warm water ie a solution consisting of 250 grams made up with water to 1 litre. We then disperse this solution over plain (sweet) biscuit at the rate of 10mL per 25grams of biscuit. In this case the biscuit simply acts as a palatable medium for which to feed the HPS over.
In terms of your
diet I would make the following comments:
1) It is difficult to determine the total volume of your preparation as it has some solid and liquid components in various measures. If we exclude the 1.5 cups of warm water (which have no caloric effect) then I’m guessing that the total volume of this “wet” preparation comes to about 3 cups (750mL). 1/3 of a cup of HPS would weigh about 40g so you are using about 5% w/v HPS, which is about half our recommendation for a fruit-based
diet. However because you are adding eggs then your protein levels are boosted to about the levels that we recommend.
2) Honey is a suitable carbohydrate source and adds palatability
3) Scrambled eggs are a good source of protein and fat. However if you are using Wombaroo HPS then you don’t really need egg. On a dry basis both Wombaroo HPS and Egg contain about 52% protein, and both have excellent amino acid profiles. Egg has the advantage that it is cheaper to buy than HPS. However it has the disadvantage that it also contains very high fat (about 40% on a dry basis, about a third of which is saturated), and Sugar Gliders do not require very high levels of fat (particularly saturated) in their
diet (note that much of the fat in eggs is in the yolk so egg white may be preferable to use). Wombaroo HPS on the other hand has about 12% fat much of which is polyunsaturated including the essential fatty acids ALA, EPA & DHA. Also egg can harbour harmful bacteria like salmonella, which can be
toxic if not properly cooked and stored.
4) Bee pollen is also another source of protein but is not required if using sufficient HPS. Bee pollen is also much less digestible than the protein in HPS so you would need to add a lot more to make it nutritionally equivalent to HPS.
5) “Green Juice” is mainly a high carbohydrate fruit-based product which will provide energy as well as some vitamins and minerals. Looks like a reasonable addition to the
diet.
6) Calcium Carbonate is already present in HPS and would not be required if using it in accordance with our recommendations ( see datasheet Calcium in HPS is about 1.3%). However if all the other dietary additions are low in calcium, you may need to add extra to increase dietary levels.
7) Milk Thistle is a widely used herbal remedy for people particularly for kidney disorders. We have no evidence of its use and efficacy when it comes to a Sugar Glider’s
diet, so are unable to comment on its benefit in your
diet.
I hope this information has been of some help, and please do not take any of our comments negatively as we are trying to be constructive. On the whole your
diet seems well-balanced and should fulfill the main dietary requirements of Sugar Gliders. We’d still recommend to feed live insects if possible as this forms a large part of their natural
diet and can provide a behavioural enrichment.
Kind Regards,
Gordon Rich.
Wombaroo Food Products / Passwell Pty Ltd
PO Box 151
Glen Osmond
SA 5064
Ph 08 8391 1713
Fax 08 8391 1713
www.wombaroo.com.au From: Kyrie's
Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 

Mr. Rich -
I'm afraid to report that after a night of thinking on your email, I have more and more questions.
I'm thrilled with your answers, and don't mean to be a pest to you. It would be so much better if our pets came with "care and feeding" labels!
I completely agree. It does seem as if we've gotten in our own way here in the States, making
diets unnecessarily complex. I think the needs of our pets would be much better served by offering an easier to feed
diet. I believe that many people here opt for easiness over nutrition, and thus the popularity of sadly lacking pelleted
diets here. An ideal would be a nectar source that was just as easy, yet more healthy.
What are your thoughts on substituting egg-whites for whole eggs? Would this add the (more inexpensive) protein without the high fat content? If yes, then how many egg-whites should be added?
What are your thoughts, if any, about replacing the honey with Acacia Gum? Since honey is fructose-based, and acacia gum (powder) is sucrose-based, would it be a better fit for the nutritional needs of gliders? Would it throw off the balance of other parts of the
diet?
When you write about serving your solution over plain (sweet) biscuits, could you perhaps give me an example of this kind of biscuit? Recently, in a conversation with a British sugar glider owner, I realized that in her frequent references to feeding "biscuits", she was actually feeding what Americans call "kibble." This simple semantic replacement made a huge difference in what I was perceiving her to be saying! So, I do want to clarify what "biscuit" is in Australia. Here in the States, biscuit would be something like "Monkey Biscuit" as sold by Exotic Nutrition
http://www.exoticnutrition.com/r1077743.html. These are roughly 5cm x 1.25cm little "blocks" of hard food.
Regarding the addition of Calcium Carbonate - American glider owners are somewhat obsessed with a 2:1 ratio of Calcium:Phosphorus. The concern was raised that the "HPW
diet" invented by Ms. Brewer had a ratio of closer to 1 Ca:1 Ph, so the extra calcium is added. Is this not accurate?
Again - I am so grateful for your time and guidance.
Sincerely,
Alden
From: Wombaroo/Passwell <wombaroo@adelaide.on.net>
Date: February 23, 2012
Hi Alden,
We are more than happy to answer your enquiries about Sugar Glider Nutrition. In answer to your questions:
1. Egg white would be a better way of adding protein without excessive fat compared to whole eggs. Eggs are approximately 2/3 white and 1/3 yolk, so on a weight basis you would need to add 1.5 egg whites per 1 whole egg. However egg white contains much more water than the yolk (87% compared to 52%) so gram for gram it is much more dilute in nutrients. Also the yolk contains higher levels of some nutrients (vitamins & minerals) compared to the white. This is why we don’t use eggs at all for gliders – the yolk contains excess fat and the white is relatively dilute in nutrients. Wombaroo HPS is much more concentrated in nutrients and contains the full range of amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals in a balanced formula.
2. The composition of honey depends on the source, but is mainly the monosaccharides fructose and glucose (about 50/50). Sucrose is a disaccharide consisting of a fructose unit
bonded to a glucose unit. As long as you have the intestinal enzyme sucrase, the sucrose is easily converted to its component sugars of glucose and fructose. All nectar eating species (including sugar gliders) have very high activity of sucrase and therefore absorb sucrose very easily. So nutritionally speaking, there is no difference as to whether you supply sucrose or a 50/50 mix of fructose/glucose.
3. The biscuits we refer to are what you call a “cookie” in the US (but we use plain ones - nothing covered with chocolate or icing!). Nothing like a “monkey biscuit” as these would be fortified with various nutrients that would unbalance the nutrition in the HPS. The purpose of using the cookie is as a palatable “vehicle” for supply the nutrients in the HPS.
4. We recommend a dietary Calcium to Phosphorus ratio (Ca:P) of about 1.5. A Ca:P ratio of about 2:1 is what is in bone, but this is not directly applicable to the
diet (the turnover rates of calcium and phosphorus in the body are different). Note the dietary ratio should be more accurately referred to as Available Ca:P as it depends on the bioavailability of the nutritional sources. Most phosphorus sources from plant origin have a lower availability of phosphorus (anywhere from 10-60%) due to the presence of phytate. On the other hand the bioavailability of calcium in calcium carbonate is close to 100%. So you need to account for this when calculating Ca:P. It is probably best to supply calcium based on the energy intake of the animal. For marsupials like Sugar Gliders we recommend 480mg of calcium per MJ of metabolisable energy.
Kind Regards,
Gordon Rich.
From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2012 

Mr. Rich-
This is wonderful! Thank you so much for this dialog, and your excellent advice.
What do you think about the addition of an Insectivore
diet, such as the one available by Mazuri or Exotic Nutrition? I'm attaching pdfs of the Nutrition statements from 3 such pelleted
diets. I'm wondering if providing these would be beneficial to sugar gliders at all.
I have one more question (at this time ... maybe more coming!). Would you agree to the formulation of your suggestions into a "
diet" I can present to our American glider community? I would like to present a
diet that is "Wombaroo Approved". I would like to publicly share at least part of this conversation with those people interested, and have the outcome be a recipe that the lay-person can follow, and in doing so, feel more confident about their pet sugar gliders'
diet.
From: Wombaroo/Passwell <wombaroo@adelaide.on.net>
Date: February 26, 2012
Hi Alden,
Without going into too much detail, I have the following comments about the “Insectivore”
diets you have presented:
1. The Exotic Nutrition Insect Eater contains 56.8% moisture so can not be a pelleted
diet. The moisture represents no nutritional benefit so you would have to ascertain whether it represents value for money, given the high moisture content. On a dry basis this
diet contains about 70% protein which is quite high (not a bad thing for an insectivore
diet). However a quick summation of the product components (protein, fat, moisture, ash + fibre) = 105.5% which is already over 100% without taking into account non-fibre Carbohydrate. This looks wrong to me because the ingredients contain quite a few digestible carbohydrate sources including apple, pear, bananas, carrots, sweat potatoes, wheat germ, honey – these are either in negligible quantities or the product analysis is wrong. Also the Calcium content on a dry basis is about 5% which I believe is far too high for an Insectivore
diet.
2. The Insectivore Fare product contains 40% moisture so can not be a pelleted
diet. The moisture represents no nutritional benefit so you would have to ascertain whether it represents value for money, given the high moisture content. On a dry basis this
diet contains about 33% protein which is relatively low for an Insectivore
diet. As there is no further technical data on this product we can not make any other comments about its suitability.
3. The Mazuri Insectivore
diet is an extruded product so would have relatively low moisture content. It contains 28.5% protein which is relatively low for an Insectivore
diet. Everything else in this
diet appears OK at first glance.
In light of these comments I don’t think any of these products compare that favourably to Wombaroo HPS. The first contains a lot of moisture, but appears high in protein (on a dry basis) - however I don’t entirely trust the product analysis and the calcium levels. Given that the Wombaroo product contains about 52% protein it is significantly higher than the 2nd & 3rd
diets discussed, which we believe is more suitable for insectivorous animals.
The upshot is that none of these products would be required if feeding adequate quantities of Wombaroo HPS.
In terms of a “Wombaroo Approved”
diet, we don’t really want to go down that path as it will tend to alienate people and we do not want to be seen as dictators. Invariably as soon as you publish a “complete”
diet people want to make additions or changes and things tend to get out of balance. We believe that our product recommendations are relatively easy to follow (as long as you understand that “biscuit” is synonymous with “cookie” in the USA), but still allow for an individual’s flexibility. The upshot is that our product is a useful supplement which can be applied to a range of different food sources to provide balanced levels of protein, fatty acids, vitamins & minerals into a Sugar Glider’s
diet. I am happy for you to share any of this information with others, however we always urge people to contact us directly if they have specific questions about the products.
Kind Regards,
Gordon Rich.
From: Kyrie's Mom [
Sent: Wednesday, 29 February 2012
Mr. Rich -
I guess what I don't fully understand is ... What exactly are your recommendations for feeding sugar gliders? I think the reason for my confusion is that when you've referred to your product recommendations, I'm not sure exactly what those are.
Since I am in the US and buy High Protein Powder from another source that imports it, perhaps I'm not getting the original packaging?
I see on your site that you also offer a Small Carnivore Food. Would that be something appropriate to add to a sugar glider
diet?
Thanks for your time!
Alden
From: Wombaroo/Passwell
Date: March 5, 2012
Hi Alden,
Please find attached our feeding guidelines for Sugar Gliders.
As outlined in the guidelines we use Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food as a replacement/adjunct to live insect foods. I’m not sure if this product is widely available in the US, but our distributor should be able to get it in.
Kind Regards,
Gordon Rich.
From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Friday, 9 March 2012
Mr. Rich -
Thank you! I find this very enlightening!
I will be calling the US distributor.
Arrowroot "cookies" in America are something made for toddlers.
Americans love to put iron in anything that is intended for a baby! Do you feel that the amount of iron is acceptable for a glider? Are the other values acceptable?
From: Wombaroo/Passwell
Date: March 8, 2012 7:26:06 PM CST
Hi Alden,
I wouldn’t recommend using a fortified baby biscuit as food for gliders. Just a normal plain cookie wouldn’t have as much iron. The arrowroot biscuits we get here in Australia are not fortified for babies – I probably should delete reference to them for our US customers!
Regards,
Gordon.
From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2012
I have found a natural (unfortified) source for the cookies.
May I please share this discussion with some friends publicly? I will not pass this off as a "Wombaroo Approved
diet" - but I think many American sugar glider owners would benefit from hearing more about your recommendations and the specifics. Of course, any questions I would direct to you. Your email may be swamped!
Alden
Kyrie's Mom
valkyriemome@aol.com
From: Wombaroo/Passwell
Date: March 13, 2012
Hi Alden,
No problems, feel free to discuss any of these issues publicly. We are happy to answer any specific questions. We are also happy for you to distribute the information sheet with our recommendations/suggestions (I have attached a copy here, and omitted the reference to arrowroot biscuits to avoid confusion with the fortified baby products).
Kind regards,
Gordon.