My vet could be mistaken, she has not seen many gliders. No I can't show pictures of hair loss because I didn't have him at that age. I bought him somewhere between 6-12 weeks oop. The mill breeder I bought him from claimed 12 weeks but when I took him to the vet about 2 weeks after she said 8-10 weeks at that time.The only thing I can say for certain is the my glider has tritrichonomas, what he is getting treated with, & what we are considering changing it to. I'm telling ya'll so that ya'll know its out there, give advice, & support. I don't want to cause drama-I HATE drama. I'm not playing the blame game, & I'm not taking sides. I' passing along what I have been told by lab techs (PCR results) & vets. If someone disagrees, ok but don't shoot the messenger.

I saw cab before he was diagnosed with tritrich. He is a cute lil black beauty. I trimmed his nails. He appeared small but not ill, I sanitized anyway, I always do. His fur was a little dull but not alarming, ya know?

so he went in for a routine fecal what 3 weeks or so ago that changed everything for the poor guy, weeks of meds, no girls, and a stressed momma

I really am sorry for you and Cab and that you 2 have to go throught this. I hope that you can get some answers and that Cab will be able to have some new friends to play with.

What were his symptoms that first alarmed you that he was sick?

I too am just trying to get a grasp on this whole tritrich info. And it is really hard to understand the symptoms of it. Some articles say that there may not be any outward showing signs and then some say that there is major diarreah. I was just wondering what the symptoms were with Cab, so others may know what to look for.

read my post Sherri, he went in for a routine fecal, well visit cause I asked her to do that before I sent the girls there since I knew where cab came from.

So there were no symptoms then? I read where some strains don't have any outward appearance of symptoms. Thats why I was asking. Sorry if I seem to be backsliding to the beginning, but there are so many strains of tritrich and so much info being given that its hard to keep it all straight.

Awesome .. Make sure to do the multi-strain PCR... Im sending off next week when we get paid for the job we are on currently, I am doing my 3 breeding cages in a combined and then I am also doing the new girls Marilyn Monroe and Jackie O. More for piece of mind and a "base" reading from someone that has show no signs of illness. I know Tracy is testing her whole room at GREAT expense but at least then she will have a "starting point". Nadine has stated to me that she will get samples off next week also when things calm down at her place....

Peggy, I dont have any good internet links. All info either I learned at University myself or in the field, have gone back over my textbooks, have devoured my daughters textbooks (at University majoring in Marine Mammal Biology for a Ph.D with double minors in business management and education) she literally just went through this portion of her education... Picking her brains, her professors brains, going to the Universities library AND talking with my various contacts that are either Ph.d's/researching/teaching vets, zoologists, microbiologists and working vets AND what others working behind the scenes have come up with when talking/writing to their own contacts....... and to answer your other questions, its to early to tell or to come to any real conclusions just based off of 2 positives, we will find out more as we go along and more testing is done...

Also, this has been said somewhere before, but a negative wet mount is NOT definative as you can have 100 KNOWN positive slides but you would ONLY see the trich swimmers in 15 of those, not very good odds at all IMHO, esp if one of those opportunistic secondaries come in and "battles down" the tritrichs numbers. In fact, I believe out of like 6 or more wet mounts done on Grace the tritrich was ONLY seen twice

Now Im off to bed again, fighting a head cold (with headache that makes it hurt to think)

Chris here is a link I posted on LGG. I know our gliders are not rodents, but it seems the tritrichomonas Muris is commonly found in them and is natural. That is what made me think maybe all gliders have it to some extent.

http://books.google.com/books?id=CaHuLkp...ris&f=false


Here is another one I found. If you look it states that it is found throughout the fecal mass in the cecum and colon and also not known to cause clinical signs.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=1429&page=162

My samples are being sent off this afternoon. We don't know what strain the gliders have. The muris strain was a guess. So far, no one has found anywhere that can determine the strain for us. If it's something native to the glider's gut I would expect more people to see it. Grace didn't have any symptoms. She did, however get diagnosed with strep and because of the diagnosis, I requested a fecal to see if there was anything else going on with her. It seems that there may not always be major symptoms when trich is found in gliders. I do know vets do want to treat it so they are assuming it is pathogenic at this point.

yes its commonly found in rodents, but, there are also many researchers that believe that is also sets up the other "naturally occuring" Lawsonia intracellularis which causes the wet tail symtoms in rodents (young hamsters show the highest morbidity)....

I dont think anyone has concluded that this is in fact muris strain, we were only advised to go that direction first since the T.Foetus PCR's all came back negative.. also the fact that this WILL NOT grow in the TF bags (Nadines nor the 2 that were loaded with it in my area and if I remember correctly Tracys vet tried to "stabalize" a sample sent to lab in a TF, which again was negative although the sample sent was positive on wet mount and now the PCR)

Heres a good link showing some of the common causes of Proliferative Enteritis (Proliferative Ileitis, Wet Tail)
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/171530.htm

There is also no links that I can find of the newly discovered pathogenic trichamonas found in prairie dogs but I have now heard about it from 3 different contacts of mine, which have access to research documents that none of us have access to

I also think if it was "naturally occuring" at some points we would have seen it before this on routine fecals.. There have also been NO cysts/pseudocyts seen with floatation and T.Muirs is the only trich I know that produces these, unless of course the "yeast" seen on Tracys exams is actually a T.Muirs pseudocyst (daughter MADE me add this as a possible option for that uncommon cell walled yeast LOL)... Its just to darn early to tell!!!!

I took him to the vet because Cora requested & told me that getting from the mill it needed to be done. BUT I also took him in on her "emergency only" day because he didn't eat well 2 nights in a row (he did eat but not very much), because he had some semi-loose stool, & because he didn't weigh as much as I understood he should have weighed.

My Grace has alwa been very small. She is over a year old and is still only 65g. She seems to have the ki d of frame that would support a heavier gliders. I am hoping after treatment, if we can get rid of this stuff, she will gain some weigh!

I had my vet send off 2 samples today. One sample is Adara ( the mother of my ick joeys) and one sample from Bits (Adara's first ick joey). We did talk about medications for this and she had informed me that Ronidizol used in cats and dogs for tritrich can cause neurological side effects. Although she did say that most of the time that 90-95% of the time the neurological issues clear up within 1-3 months of stopping treatment. Doesn't sound like an option of medication that I would want to try with my gliders.

Yes that's what my vet suggested next, but she informed me he would be a guinea pig because as far as she knows it hasnt been tried on gliders. She was suggested this from another vet-not delany btw.

And just to let everyone know, that this PCR being sent of too the Zoologix is ALOT more than what has been quoted. $230 for 2 samples and that does NOT include shipping.

sounds like your vet charged you a "handling fee". If you send the samples yourself in a ziplock baggie then Zoologix does only charge 85 per I believe it was (plus shipping)

Chris, that's correct. Per the people AT Zoologix the following prices are correct for the test for trichomonas/tritrichomonas test code: X0013
1-4 samples $85 each
5-16 samples $75 each
17-39 samples $65 each
40+ samples $60 each
The samples must be sent together to get discounted pricing. IF your vet or anyone else sends the samples, you can expect a fee added on for their services. However, Zoologix will do tests for vets, or just ordinary people like us for the same price.

To send a sample you need to put the fresh fecal sample in a ziplock marked with the name you want them to use. You need to put that ziplock in a heavy duty ziplock. Try to get all the air out of the bags so that they won't pop open with pressure. You fill out their submission form and include it with your sample and send it overnight to their facility in CA. Fed Ex is best and don't pay for early morning shipping because they have a deal worked out with Fed Ex so that they get all their samples that are coming to them each day at the same time. Mine actually was delivered at 8:45 that morning after I shipped. They will usually get their results to you in 2-3 days.

Danielle, I remembered the name of one of the other possible treatments drugs....tinidizole <sp?>, mention it to your vet and see what she thinks

To send to Zoologix we payed $85 (1 sample) and $18.95 express/overnight shipping at the local USPS office. We used the USPS envelope; in the envelope we put the sample in a ziplock bag getting out as much air as possible-Bag was labeled "Cab-Sugar Glider"- and the subscription form.
I have the recipets to prove it. I'm sorry your vet charged you a "handling fee".

Maybe my feelings are on my sleeve but I keep feeling that I'm getting called a liar. I already said I'm giving info -what I have been told- & hoping to get support/advice. If I continue to feel like I'm getting attacked I will stop posting about it.

Thanks Chris-I pmd you

I may have worded it wrong in my post and for that I am sorry if people got the wrong idea that all tests were going to cost so much.

Personally "if" my vet charged a handling fee I don't mind. I am one of those people that would rather have my vet take care of sending it in because I just know that "I" could mess up the sample if I tried to do it myself. Then I might have a contaminated sample and that wouldn't do me any good.

Took Cab back to the vet today. He weighed 75g! We decided to put him on liquid ronidazole for 10 days. If its cleared up on vets float/smear will do another PCR. If its not clear (either vet or PCR) he gets it for another 10 days. If its still not clear at that point idk. Praying the first 10 days clears it up!

how is cab doing? hope these meds do the trick.

take care,
nancy in detroit

He is doing good thanks for asking! So far I haven't noticed any side effects except maybe loss of diet-but that could also be my husband's fault lol. He decided to hide a LOT of dried fruit in his basket & other toys so out of 2tbs & 1tsp he gets every night fri he ate 1tsp & sat he ate 1tbs&the tsp.I didnt know till he told me...I think I found the rest .
He's on day 4 of his meds out of 10 days (he ate fine thur night).

Thank you o much for sharing all this information. I have been following this post and hope to find out more about this. I hope he keeps doing good and thank you for sharing all the information to us.

It's not a problem

glad to hear he is tolerating the meds so far {{{{{hugs}}}}}

I hope Cab takes his meds better than my colony (for an UNRELATED issue). It is too funny trying to think of ways to bribe them with their meds. Cab is being such a trooper!



I got the greatest news for a monday morning from my vet. BOTH of my tests for tritrich came back NEGATIVE!!!!! WHOO HOO!!!

I got lucky, my antibiotics were flavored and all but two think they're getting an extra special treat