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Advice Needed! #1307342
11/24/12 11:13 PM
11/24/12 11:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
D
dizzyblue Offline OP
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dizzyblue  Offline OP
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Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
Its graphic. But I need some extra advice.

I have two 8 week old joeys. About 24 hours ago my mother and I went to get them and move them to their own cage, so I could take note of their eating habits, and make sure they were progressing fine and using the potty, Normal things.

But when my mom brought out the joeys they were blue and stiff.I was pretty sure they were dead, so I went to take them from my mother, who was trying to stretch them out. When I held them I could tell both were still alive.

We got a syringe and gave each honey and egg, and rubbed on them for about 30-45 minutes.After the initial shock I got the things from my joey rejection kit.I was missing pedilyte so I had to run to the store.

When we got back both gliders were moving and eyes open. I mixed up some formula and pedilyte and we fed them every 2 hours until I got vet contact this morning and took them both in.

One joey is doing much better than the other. After we got some formula in her she would eat on her own since last night, the other will only eat via syringe.So the vet gave each some (Im not sure what its called it starts with a "D" and the assistant said it was just like sugar to pep them up, whatever it was it wasn't on my receipt) And the weaker glider got Sub-Q fluids.

Both are equally excited about the formula now, ears are up and eyes bright.Still only the one will eat on her own. But is there anything else I should be looking out for, and i'm a little confused on how warm they should be kept. The vet advised me to replace the fleece pouch and liner with cotton which I did.

I'm not really sure how to know when i'm out of the woods. Also one joey had solid stools, the other runny, now they both have solid stools. The weak one did come out and climb around the cage for a moment but not too much.

I'm having a hard time finding info on how to care for they joeys since they are so old. And i've been feeding them every 2 hours, they seem to not want to be eating so much. (they are eating 1-2 CC's every 2 hours)

The vet was at a loss because all other gliders in the household are fine. They joeys were out and about the night before this happened though.She suspects the mother glider couldn't produce enough milk for both gliders and it just caught up to them. I just checked and the mama glider does have joeys IP. And they are very large.

They both seem to be staying hydrated and I will be taking them both back to the vet tomorrow if they need more fluids. A sugar glider specialist will be at the office on Wednesday. And both will be going.

Thanks for reading,and sorry so long and discombobulated.I've never experienced anything like this, and i've had gliders for over 6 years!

Here is my cell number ITS TEXT ONLY
765-977-9323
If you have any advice for me




Last edited by dizzyblue; 11/24/12 11:31 PM. Reason: Mother does in face have joeys IP
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307358
11/25/12 12:16 AM
11/25/12 12:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,216
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
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Posts: 28,216
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These guys are 8 weeks OOP - they should be eating regular food and not relying on mom to eat. What diet are you feeding in your cage?

Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307395
11/25/12 02:05 AM
11/25/12 02:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,114
MI
Sweet As Suggies Offline
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Sweet As Suggies  Offline
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MI
My gosh, my mouth dropped open in shock, but I'm so happy that it closed again in relief. I'm so happy to hear what a quick response you had, and that both little ones are still alive. Keep us posted...


Alicia

:cream: :bb: :plat: :wt: :leu: :wfb:

Naaya & Halo, Solari & Casper, Naphtali & Polar, Twilight & Cherish
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307410
11/25/12 03:07 AM
11/25/12 03:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
D
dizzyblue Offline OP
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dizzyblue  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
I feed Candy's blended. And have never had a problem with it.

I don't think they have been able to eat adequately from mom since she has had joeys in pouch, but i'm not sure if that would make a difference? They joeys IP are very large, like about to come OOP.

They were weighed today,at the vet, and I think they both came in around 38 grams?

Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307422
11/25/12 09:34 AM
11/25/12 09:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
But when my mom brought out the joeys they were blue and stiff.


In all my years of owning gliders, I have never heard of a glider being blue!

I have to agree, at 8 weeks oop they should be eating on their own and they 'should' weigh more than 38 grams at this age. Gliders who have low weights at 6-8 weeks oop normally is an indication that mom is not getting the proper nutrients needed to maintain proper milk supply or nutrients in the milk.

What is the weight of your mom? Can you post some photos of her please? And of the joeys?


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Advice Needed! [Re: Srlb] #1307427
11/25/12 10:23 AM
11/25/12 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
T
Terry Offline
Serious Glideritis
Terry  Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
I am not familiar with breeding or anything related to joeys. I was wondering though, if the mom was carrying another joey or pair of joey's, could this have been when she was still nursing the first pair? If so, could that be why this 1st pair of joeys have malnutrition and caused that condition? And if that would be the case, did she get pregnant too soon after having joeys?

In any case, I'm sorry you and your joeys have been through this trauma, but very happy to hear there is improvement.


Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
1 Sugie, (Ollie)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)
R.I.P. Skadoosh (2/28/12-3/26/18)
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307428
11/25/12 10:24 AM
11/25/12 10:24 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
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nancy1202  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Sigh... I am so sorry to read about this. I do hope your joeys recover with no ill effects. You were probably given a 50% dextrose solution for them, which is a natural sugar. Many of us have had issues with the blended diet. I'm sure you have read the threads. The problems seem to be primarily with nursing moms and joeys weaned onto the diet. I lost one glider and almost lost her two siblings two years ago. The diagnosis on her necropsy was malnutrition. There is obviously something missing in that diet. I do know that many have had no issues, but there are enough of us who have to send up red flags. These are your gliders, and of course your decision on what to feed them.

Those are low weights for your joeys, who should no longer be nursing off mom as their primary source of nutrition. What does mom weigh? Do you know what the joeys weighed when they came OOP?

How are the joeys this morning? What "formula" are you giving them?


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307507
11/25/12 08:00 PM
11/25/12 08:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Nancy1202 said:
Quote:
I lost one glider and almost lost her two siblings two years ago. The diagnosis on her necropsy was malnutrition.)

Nancy failed to mention here that that her glider was from a line of gliders that was found to have malabsorption issues.

Where were the joeys when your mom found them? In a pouch with other gliders, or on the floor of the cage?

Was there any food available in the cage when the gliders were found unresponsive?

If the honey & egg you fed them perked them up so quickly, they may have had very low blood sugar which can cause them to go into shock.

If the joeys are only 8 weeks OOP and there are additional joeys in pouch that are close to coming out, the mom was basically providing for Quadruplets - not a common situation with gliders. In any event, the 8 week OOP joeys should be eating well on their own and should not be dependent on mom's milk supply at this age.

You asked about how warm to keep them. Is there any sort of heat source in or near the cage? How warm do you keep the room the gliders are in?

I wonder why the vet thought a cotton pouch would be better than the usual fleece pouch. Unless you keep the house very warm the fleece should not be too warm for them. Did the the vet say WHY the cotton pouch would be preferred. You should not need to provide any additional heat for them. At 8 weeks OOP they can maintain their own body temperature.

I hope they continue to improve. Be sure to put food in the cage before your gliders wake up each evening to your gliders can eat some as soon as they are awake and active each evening.


Last edited by CandyOtte; 11/25/12 08:01 PM.

Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307508
11/25/12 08:00 PM
11/25/12 08:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
D
dizzyblue Offline OP
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dizzyblue  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
Thanks all.

I left these forums when the issues came up about the diet way back. I just posted a little while back asking about it and didn't get many responses.

Mama glider is very large!

Joeys are eating on their own now, but its still formula. I'm not sure how to introduce them to solid foods. If anyone can help please PM me.

Also they are exploring and grooming. They just wanted to sleep before.

I have an appointment on Wednesday with a specialist to see them.

Last edited by dizzyblue; 11/25/12 08:02 PM.
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307509
11/25/12 08:11 PM
11/25/12 08:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,860
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,860
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: dizzyblue
Thanks all.

I left these forums when the issues came up about the diet way back. I just posted a little while back asking about it and didn't get many responses.

Mama glider is very large!

Joeys are eating on their own now, but its still formula. I'm not sure how to introduce them to solid foods. If anyone can help please PM me.

Also they are exploring and grooming. They just wanted to sleep before.

I have an appointment on Wednesday with a specialist to see them.


At eight (8) weeks OOP which means eight (8) weeks out of pouch, these joeys should not need any sort of forumula whatsoever.

YOU should not need to "introduce" them to solid foods. The parents should have started doing this at somewhere around 3-4 weeks OOP.

At this point in time,they should be eating the same diet the parents are with NO formula. Or at least I have never heard of supplementing formula in joeys this age if the are otherwise at a healthy weight.


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Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307510
11/25/12 08:11 PM
11/25/12 08:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,417
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,417
Wisconsin
Are they still in with the parents?

If not just offer them a piece of veggie or fruit just as you would a treat. They will taste it and possible eat it or toss it, just keep offering them tidbits of fruit and veggies they will catch on.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Sklyar Blue, Mister Peanut, Big Mack & Ibo
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Micheal, Stevie, Cho & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman & T'Pring :rtmo: O'Ryan :leu:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307514
11/25/12 08:20 PM
11/25/12 08:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
D
dizzyblue Offline OP
Glider Lover
dizzyblue  Offline OP
Glider Lover
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
they are not with the parents now.
They were 38 grams when I got them weighed.
I haven't tried to feed them anything else yet.
But yes i'll go and give them some regular food,and see how they do.

I PM'd some of you thanks.

Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307524
11/25/12 08:50 PM
11/25/12 08:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
I wonder if these joeys were OOP before they were ready due to the other set of joeys coming along so quickly. If they were OOP early then they may be developmentally less than 8 weeks OOP and are just beginning to eat fully on their own like joeys that are about 6 weeks OOP. If mom was not letting them nurse they may have been essentially rejected so mom could provide enough milk for the younger in pouch Joeys.

I have not heard of anyone else having two sets of joeys in pouch do close in age.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307528
11/25/12 09:04 PM
11/25/12 09:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I have had females breed back to back. Several times the joeys are about to come OOP when the first set is ready to go to their new home (8-10 weeks OOP), so nursing different aged joeys at the same time is not uncommon at all. I don't think these joeys would come OOP "early" so mom can produce milk for the younger joeys.

Actually, this is one of the cool things with gliders, they produce different types of milk based on the ages of joeys they are nursing. So I don't think milk production is an issue based on having 2 sets of joeys nursing at the same time.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307529
11/25/12 09:04 PM
11/25/12 09:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Candy, what has your experience been with joeys born at your house?


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Advice Needed! [Re: CandyOtte] #1307537
11/25/12 09:18 PM
11/25/12 09:18 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Quote:
Nancy1202 said:
Quote:
I lost one glider and almost lost her two siblings two years ago. The diagnosis on her necropsy was malnutrition.)
Nancy failed to mention here that that her glider was from a line of gliders that was found to have malabsorption issues.
I failed to mention quite a few things because I did not think they were pertinent to dizzyblue's post. What IS pertinent, and what needs to be ruled out are common factors that have been experienced by other breeders that may have contributed to the condition of these joeys. I don't believe genetic malabsorption would be "curable". The two gliders I was mentioned above did a complete turnaround with a diet change and vet care. They have made a full recovery, look great, are extremely active and are thriving.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307544
11/25/12 09:40 PM
11/25/12 09:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
I have not heard of anyone else having two sets of joeys in pouch do close in age.


I have had joeys that were 3-5 weeks out of pouch and joeys in pouch at the same time. It isnt uncommon for some moms to do this at all. Takara was well known for it, and Fauna is currently following that same track.

Quote:
Actually, this is one of the cool things with gliders, they produce different types of milk based on the ages of joeys they are nursing. So I don't think milk production is an issue based on having 2 sets of joeys nursing at the same time.


I completely agree with this Shelly.

There is actually a very interesting study that was written called:

Prenatal Protein Malnutrition and Visual Discrimination Learning in the Sugar Glider, Petaurs Breviceps
Fred Punzo, All Laird and Erica Pedrosa

I had to read this when working on my diet. Just one of the many.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307550
11/25/12 10:16 PM
11/25/12 10:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
How long have these joey's not been with their parents? were they just removed today when you found them? or have they been removed from mom and dad longer?

My joeys all are pretty much weaned between 6-7 weeks and eating on their own. they just learn so much more in the last couple of weeks. But mine usually are eating on their own completely at 6 weeks. I have never offered formula unless I have had to handraise.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307551
11/25/12 10:19 PM
11/25/12 10:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
My joey experience in my home has nothing to do with the original poster's question but I will answer any way.

My only breeding pair have had a total of 6 joeys the first 2 were single joeys OOP about 6 months apart, the next set of twins were OOP about about 8 months after that and the last ones are about 9 or 10 weeks OOP and Kanobles and the other boys except the youngest have all been neutered. The first joey lives with Art & Paulette and the rest are all here and thriving in a family colony.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307553
11/25/12 10:25 PM
11/25/12 10:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 240
Danville, VA
JadeEliz Offline
Glider Explorer
JadeEliz  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 240
Danville, VA
Candy what do you think caused your girl to have such long gaps between joeys? Was she pulling or did you give her breaks?


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Re: Advice Needed! [Re: dizzyblue] #1307555
11/25/12 10:27 PM
11/25/12 10:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
JeremysDad Offline
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JeremysDad  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 311
Raymond, NH, USA
I have to agree, if honey ad egg perked them up that quickly, it was prolly a low blood sugar shock thing. I have one little girl that exhibits LBS and needs to be fed on time and have snacks (she's has been to the vet and is fine otherwise)


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