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LittleRock, AR USA
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Single Gliders May Self Mutilate #1317337
01/06/13 10:29 PM
01/06/13 10:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline OP
Owner
KarenE  Offline OP
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
Recently it has come to my attention posts are being made giving out information that gliders housed as singles are prone to self mutilate as well as having other issues.

This is being posted as fact rather than possibility.

In all my years here, I don't remember reading anywhere definitive proof for the cause of self mutilation in gliders, but the majority I believe will link it to pain, injury or illness and not loneliness.

It is true most gliders prefer the company of their own and some may over groom or even become depressed if they are alone, but again I have not read any definitive proof this is true of ALL gliders.

They are as different as we are.

What do you think? Fact or Fiction?


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Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317345
01/06/13 10:38 PM
01/06/13 10:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
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Washington D.C. Metro Area
Fiction.

There is a HUGE misconception of self-mutilation. Because a glider overgrooms, they aren't self-mutilating. Because a glider licks and even scrapes their newly neutered belly, making it red, is NOT self-mutilation. Gliders typically self-mutilate for the very reasons Karen stated above. Not because they are alone in their cage.

A lone glider may overgroom. They may become bored. They may become depressed. But is it fact that they will? Nope...not even close.

I have a little girl here right now, a single glider. She has been in a cage by herself for some time now. She is terrified of other gliders. Any glider that WANTS to be with her, she wants no part of. Put her back in her cage or away from the others, she's as happy as a little clam. Her entire personality changes when she's away from others. Is this the norm? Not necessarily. But it does say that just because a glider is alone, doesn't mean they are upset/sad/depressed/anxious/upset.

Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317363
01/06/13 11:11 PM
01/06/13 11:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 235
Arcadia, Florida USA
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mypreciousbabies Offline
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Arcadia, Florida USA
My last vet told me to watch for self mutilation because she treated several single gliders who did it. Dr Linner bridgeport Audobon Veterinary


Kimberly Mama to
2-adult children
:grey: Ipsy Doodle & :grey: Mowgli
:grey: Sarah Rose & :grey: Rachel Josephine, Twins
RESCUES:Toy Poodle: Precious, Chihuahua:Bella
Cats:MaryAnn, Ginger,Marchello
Cichlids & goldfish pond
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Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: mypreciousbabies] #1317368
01/06/13 11:30 PM
01/06/13 11:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline OP
Owner
KarenE  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: mypreciousbabies
My last vet told me to watch for self mutilation because she treated several single gliders who did it. Dr Linner bridgeport Audobon Veterinary


Not saying she didn't treat single gliders who injured themselves, but it would be very helpful to have the history/medical records of those gliders to know if there were any underlying health issues to determine if it was true self mutilation.

Were they in e-collars? Where on their bodies did they self mutilate and how much damage was done?

When a glider truly does this, they usually do quite a bit of damage to themselves.


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Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317371
01/06/13 11:43 PM
01/06/13 11:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
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DCMuffin  Offline
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Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
I've run across two different vets who thought that since a glider went for their bellies after a neuter, they were self-mutilating. This is untrue. A glider coming out of anesthesia is disoriented and will chew on ANYTHING. If you give them a treat, a towel, a piece of fleece - they will chew on it. If they are properly restrained, they will not do this and after 10-15 minutes, they will no longer have that urge to chew.

Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317372
01/06/13 11:50 PM
01/06/13 11:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 235
Arcadia, Florida USA
M
mypreciousbabies Offline
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mypreciousbabies  Offline
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M

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 235
Arcadia, Florida USA
I understand. Just wanted to say where I got that idea from. She said she had to amputate the tail on one who was depressed his owner stopped spending time with him. (I know now it could have been an injury after my own experience with this)


Kimberly Mama to
2-adult children
:grey: Ipsy Doodle & :grey: Mowgli
:grey: Sarah Rose & :grey: Rachel Josephine, Twins
RESCUES:Toy Poodle: Precious, Chihuahua:Bella
Cats:MaryAnn, Ginger,Marchello
Cichlids & goldfish pond
:rbridge: Matilda Jane
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317377
01/07/13 12:09 AM
01/07/13 12:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
josefine Offline
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josefine  Offline
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Perry, Iowa
There is a lady that lives up the street from me. Her husband bought a glider for her, as a surprise, from our state fair.
So, he came from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. This glider is now, I think, 6 yrs old. She feeds only what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets had told her to feed @ that time. She was told to never go onto other forums, as they are all wrong, so she doesn't. She only listens to what they say on their site on the computer.
He seems to be a happy glider, & he definitely is bonded to his owner.


Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317401
01/07/13 07:39 AM
01/07/13 07:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,182
Maine
IslandGliders Offline
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Maine
The one experience I have with self-mutilation (not my glider) was involving a joey that had always been housed with other gliders, but had an untreated UTI and was found dead on the floor of the cage by her owner.

Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317418
01/07/13 10:10 AM
01/07/13 10:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
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Kilgore, Texas
False info, they might overgroom their heads or above the eyes but not mutilate. Mutilation is caused by pain/discomfort in a small percentage of gliders.


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Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: Cora] #1317438
01/07/13 11:19 AM
01/07/13 11:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline OP
Owner
KarenE  Offline OP
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Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
Along these same lines, Aimee touched on a subject of gliders living alone.

We are told gliders are colony animals and should "always" have a mate/cage mate. They should never live alone. They cannot be happy living alone.

Fact or Fiction?


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Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317452
01/07/13 03:39 PM
01/07/13 03:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
GliderGuy540 Offline
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Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
I always have trouble in absolute all or nothing classifications, but I would say Fiction. I have heard accounts from several people who have reported their lone gliders are healthy and happy.

I have recently had to separate two gliders because of a wound. They have been in separate cages for going on 3 weeks now and I honestly cannot see any changes in their behavior. Granted, I have been paying them both more attention than usual and been allowing them closely supervised interaction for very brief visits. I know this is not exactly a great example since the time apart has only been a few weeks.

Gliders are colony animals and therefore I would postulate thrive in groups, but I don't think it is impossible for a glider to be perfectly happy and healthy on its own with an attentive caretaker.


--==Kevin==--
Suggie-Daddy to Willow, Wicket, and Loki
:grey: :grey: :plat:

Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317453
01/07/13 03:50 PM
01/07/13 03:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
Maryland, USA
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mylily Offline
In Pouch
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
Maryland, USA
Fiction.

My suggie has lived alone for two years and is perfectly satisfied and healthy. I have never noticed her trying to hurt herself in anyway. Just like us humans we are individuals. Maybe some suggie just like being alone.

Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317455
01/07/13 04:00 PM
01/07/13 04:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
josefine Offline
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josefine  Offline
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Perry, Iowa
I would have to say that this would be Fiction, b/c of the post I mentioned earlier.


Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317465
01/07/13 05:03 PM
01/07/13 05:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
I have two single girls right now.

Azalea has been single since her mate died quite a long time ago. She likes having neighbors but refuses to share a cage with anyone. She is happy and content.

Dayla is my other single girl. She has been single for over 3 years. She too prefers it that way. She likes her neighbors but doesn't want to share.

Both girls are well over 10 years old now. They are healthy, energetic and eat well. They are friendly to me and my husband but they just don't want another glider companion in their house. They chatter with their neighbors and Azalea is a HORRIBLE flirt with Billy and Sam, the two bachelors that live next to her. They would love to have her move in with them but she wants nothing to do with it. Sadly, the two girls also don't want to live with each other either.

I believe the "lore" of a lone glider self mutilating comes from they can over groom. If they are obsessive with it, they can cause sores which in turn causes pain. This COULD lead to self mutilation. A good glider owner would catch this before the self mutilation happens or at least I'd like to think so.

But I've NEVER (in 14 years) seen this happen with any of the gliders I've had here. (and there have been over 300 gliders over the years).


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317493
01/07/13 06:44 PM
01/07/13 06:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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North Central Ohio
I have also never seen evidence that loneliness or boredom causes SMing. I fully believe it to be a medical issue.

As for gliders living alone, yes they can. Do I recommend it? No. Because gliders are colony animals, they are typically more content having a cage mate that they can interact and communicate with. Regardless of how much time and love we offer our gliders, we simply cannot give them the same companionship as another glider. For those reasons, I recommend them to be in at least a pair.

However, there are also gliders that prefer to be alone, and yet others that do just fine by themselves.

For anyone getting a single glider, I always tell them to look for signs of loneliness/boredom. If you are seeing this, then you may have a glider that is not happy living alone.

Know your glider, know the signs, and keep them happy! wink


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1317561
01/08/13 12:05 AM
01/08/13 12:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,637
New York
Drea Offline
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Drea  Offline
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Posts: 1,637
New York
I admit I was hesitant to post on here when people suggested I do so.
I will also say that I've inherited my position on single gliders as a result of constantly speaking to vets who say the same thing.
Being a vet's assistant I do take any advice or conversation I have with certified vet's pretty seriously.

However, I have also considered that their information could be based on a consistently perpetuated rumor too.
There are a lot of things like that in the glider community - the conversation in sterility being one of them.
I can say I have seen severe over grooming, lethargy, and complete loss of appetite as a result of being raised alone. I've seen those symptoms personally via rescue gliders named Tails.
I will admit I have never personally seen a glider mutilate itself because they were housed alone.

That being said, I will scale back my posts to reflect only that I highly suggest keeping gliders in pairs and will only mention lack of appetite, lethargy, depression, and over rooming as POSSIBLE symptoms. I will also add that this is not true in every case but is something to consider as gliders are colony animals.

I think Shelly's post above was quite intelligent and very well written.
I agree wholeheartedly with how she put it.
I'd never recommend a glider to live alone but if they do - know them well, watch for signs, be aware of the negative possiblities.


-~~~ Drea ~~~- <3

super ecstatic mama to:
:bb: weebay (lil'boy) &&&&
:bb: beeble (lil'girl) &&&&
:rtmo: Tay-Bee (baby girl) <33333

Call or Text anytime for glider help - 570-850-2101 <3
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: GliderNursery] #1317581
01/08/13 01:16 AM
01/08/13 01:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
I have also never seen evidence that loneliness or boredom causes SMing. I fully believe it to be a medical issue.

As for gliders living alone, yes they can. Do I recommend it? No. Because gliders are colony animals, they are typically more content having a cage mate that they can interact and communicate with. Regardless of how much time and love we offer our gliders, we simply cannot give them the same companionship as another glider. For those reasons, I recommend them to be in at least a pair.

However, there are also gliders that prefer to be alone, and yet others that do just fine by themselves.

For anyone getting a single glider, I always tell them to look for signs of loneliness/boredom. If you are seeing this, then you may have a glider that is not happy living alone.

Know your glider, know the signs, and keep them happy! wink



I agree 100%


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1321295
01/23/13 07:14 AM
01/23/13 07:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66
Across the Universe
M
misa Offline
Out of Pouch
misa  Offline
Out of Pouch
M

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 66
Across the Universe
I have a seven year old glider and he's been on his own ever since I got him when he was a few months old. He's active and I've never had any problems with him. I considered getting him paired up with another glider, but he seems to be okay on his own. No changes in diet, mood or health so far. I do agree that perhaps he would be happier living in a colony or paired up with another, but he seems to be doing fine on his own. He's gotten used to living the single life and gets plenty of attention anyways that at this point, I'm just afraid getting another glider and introducing one at this age might be more stressful than it's worth.


Glider - Babyboi (DOB: July 25, 2006)
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1321562
01/24/13 12:10 AM
01/24/13 12:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 212
VA
animalloversfb Offline
Glider Explorer
animalloversfb  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 212
VA
In the 2006 AEMV proceedings, Dr. Johnson-Delaney discusses solitary sugar gliders being used in depression studies because all it takes to cause clinical depression in sugar gliders is to house them alone. She also comments on the incidence of self-mutilation...

"Self-mutiliation is usually seen in solitary sugar gliders. Sugar gliders have been used in laboratory animal medicine as models of serotonin-deficiency depression. To clinically depress a sugar glider, the researchers found one only has to house them as single animals. Many of our pet gliders are solitary. And unfortunately, because they were removed from glider families prior to puberty, they do not know how to properly integrate into glider society. Gliders should not be housed as solitary animals...Therapy needs to be aimed at maximizing the diet and habitat, and in many cases will require medical intervention."

http://www.aemv.org/Documents/2006_AEMV_proceedings_6.pdf

I don't think anything in gliders is absolute so there are exceptions where individuals should/must be kept alone, but overall, they should not. It would be interesting to ask Dr. Delaney about the cases - she does include that environment and diet(what we would probably call enrichment) is important to consider as well.

There is a distinction between surviving and thriving - sure they can probably survive alone...but would the vast majority of sugar gliders THRIVE with a buddy? Absolutely. And if we wait until we see signs of depression, then we have to deal with that on top of scrambling to find a friend for them, quarantine to ensure we don't compound it with an illness/parasite, etc. I have heard countless people say their gliders were happy and then are elated at how much HAPPIER they are when they end up getting another glider friend. To me, it is worth a try to find a compatible buddy and see how it affects the gliders...

I think the self-mutilation aspect is probably limited - but I don't think depression is something to be taken lightly, especially when it could be avoidable in a lot of cases.

Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1321570
01/24/13 12:37 AM
01/24/13 12:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,637
New York
Drea Offline
Glider Slave
Drea  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,637
New York
Sara, WOW.
I am so happy to hear a vet is trying to put some factual research out there.
ALL the exotic vets I know say that gliders have the potential to self mutilate when housed alone.
That was why I always posted that.
Hopefully more research can be done on the subject so that we all know either way smile


-~~~ Drea ~~~- <3

super ecstatic mama to:
:bb: weebay (lil'boy) &&&&
:bb: beeble (lil'girl) &&&&
:rtmo: Tay-Bee (baby girl) <33333

Call or Text anytime for glider help - 570-850-2101 <3
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1321711
01/24/13 03:12 PM
01/24/13 03:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
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North Central Ohio
That study was done in 2006. I have to wonder what else may have been going on with those gliders. Does it say that gliders actually SM'd or that is was a potential. (Guess I should read the entire article.) Since we have so much more experience since '06 with single gliders surviving without SMing, I think that may be outdated info. dunno


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: GliderNursery] #1322129
01/26/13 12:01 AM
01/26/13 12:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 177
South Carolina
Supergirl Offline
Glider Explorer
Supergirl  Offline
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Posts: 177
South Carolina
I am a newbie, but just chiming in after reading what was posted about the article above... there are many variables that could effect the outcome, and were not addressed (maybe they are in the full article?) For example... Were the solitary gliders given any attention or interaction from their humans?? How was their housing? Where they left in a bare cage with only a pouch and food? Anyone would go crazy in that type of scenario, even humans! Did they have toys, wheels, enrichment of any kind to keep them busy?

I currently have a single glider girl. I rescued her off craigslist when she was 8 weeks old.. shes now 6 months old and I would say she is thriving and happy as can be. BUT- my situation may be different than others. I work from home, am a night owl by nature... I literally have her with me 24/7. All day she sleeps in my bra...only time I leave her in her cage pouch is when I take a shower and go to the gym (3x a week for 1 hour) She sleeps in my bra soundly when I go grocery shopping, out to a movie or lunch or dinner, running errands. At night when she wakes up (usually around 8-9pm) I feed her, and do bathroom playtime for an hour... then I play with her in the "glider room" (spare guestroom/office) which is glider proofed. She glides and hops around... brings me her little army men... comes gets treats... jumps on my head... till about 3 or 4 am. And then I do another 30 min- 1 hr of playtime in the bathroom again before calling it a night. I wheel her cage into the bedroom... and leave the TV on for her all night. I go to bed at 4:30-5am every night. I realize that most people who have jobs and schedules and other responsibilities arent able to keep this type of schedule.... but so far it has been working great! She gets more attention and time than even my own hubby gets :rofl2:

That being said.. I have been actively searching for a cage mate for her (and have finally found one! YAY) Not because I feel she is depressed or will self mutilate..... but because I do realize that there are things I am not able to do due to size contraints.. i cant run and play on the wheel with her... i cant forage for hidden treats in the cage.. i cant cuddle in pouch with her (even though 99% of the time she is cuddled in my bra) I know that she will have more fun and excitement, and her life will be enriched by having a little buddy of her own kind. In the end I want HER to be to the happiest she can be. Even if she is happy now, I know she will be all the more happier smile


~*Alicia*~

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:wfb: Sophie heart

Yorkie Girl- Skyler heart

Chameleons- Leonidas, Lilly, Lucy (RIP- Lexie, Luke, Leia & Leeloo)

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Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: Supergirl] #1322139
01/26/13 01:05 AM
01/26/13 01:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline
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Berg  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Originally Posted By: Supergirl
I am a newbie, but just chiming in after reading what was posted about the article above... there are many variables that could effect the outcome, and were not addressed (maybe they are in the full article?) For example... Were the solitary gliders given any attention or interaction from their humans?? How was their housing? Where they left in a bare cage with only a pouch and food? Anyone would go crazy in that type of scenario, even humans! Did they have toys, wheels, enrichment of any kind to keep them busy?


These are the same thoughts I had when I read what was posted about the article. I did look at the article and there was no mention of under what conditions the gliders were kept in the depression studies. It was also not clear from the references in the article where the info came from, although one possible candidate article was published in 2000. Much has been learned in 12 years.

Out son had a lone glider (from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets) for 3 1/2 years. He spent a lot of time with Case and Case has done very well. In November Case got a cagemate (Ghost), and he seems much happier. I would assume that if you had a lone glider and had little interaction with it, it would in most cases become depressed. My opinion, from anecdotal evidence, is that lone gliders in general do fine if given a lot of attention but will probably always do better with one or more companions.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1322152
01/26/13 05:16 AM
01/26/13 05:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
I have thought for a couple days whether or not I should post this. As I dont want to give anyone another reason to house a glider alone. I do beleive they should be housed with others of their own kind. I truly do think that is best.

However, I also do not think people should be bashed because they have chosen to house their glider alone. I have a glider in my home that is housed with another, but if I do not spend enough time with her she will over groom. So whose company does she react to more, mine or her cagemate?

But all that aside...we claim gliders need other gliders because they are "colony" animals. True.

But thousands of people accept the fact that thousands of dogs are kept as single pets even though dogs are "pack" animals. Pack and colony here essentially being the same thing. dog owners claim the humans in the house become the "pack" but a single glider who gets plenty of human interaction cannot adopt the human as "colony"?

I am just playing devils advocate here for a bit, and I want to stress again that GLIDERS ARE BEST IN COLONIES and any single glider would need TONS of human attention and interaction. Please do NOT use my thoughts as an excuse to not get your single glider a cagemate, but there is an exception to every rule, just do not use your PERSONAL desire to create the appearance that you have an exception.


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
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Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1322207
01/26/13 02:35 PM
01/26/13 02:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
I absolutely believe that people can be (aren't always) part of a glider(s) colony.


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: sugarlope] #1322215
01/26/13 03:08 PM
01/26/13 03:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline OP
Owner
KarenE  Offline OP
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,092
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: sugarlope
I absolutely believe that people can be (aren't always) part of a glider(s) colony.
:agreed:


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Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: JillMarie] #1322273
01/26/13 08:10 PM
01/26/13 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: JillMarie


dog owners claim the humans in the house become the "pack" but a single glider who gets plenty of human interaction cannot adopt the human as "colony"?



To clarify, the above bolded statement was written to get the reader to think, it is in direct disagreement with the previous statement even though they both point in the same direction. I forget what the technique is called but it is meant to get the reader to realize the inconsistency of their thinking. I was NOT saying that a human cannot become colony, HENCE the question mark at the end.

Last edited by JillMarie; 01/26/13 08:11 PM.

:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1333731
03/17/13 11:19 PM
03/17/13 11:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
South Florida
K
Karriss Offline
New Member
Karriss  Offline
New Member
K

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
South Florida
Our Nikki was alone for a little over his first year and cried the entire duration like a baby. He's with two other suggies now and though he has never self-mutilated, I honestly think if we'd left him alone any longer his quality of life would have further deteriorated. He was obviously somewhere emotionally dark.

When he bonded to us after the first few months, he was always eager to come out and interact with everyone but come night-time, when he was alone, the crying would begin. Sometimes he would just peck a little at his food dish and crawl back into his sleeping pouch.

All I can say is he's a completely different glider now, with plenty of activity and a healthy appetite to boot. He had an almost immediate change of character after his first few introductions with his (then future) cagemates. Of course, this doesn't prove that being alone (even with interaction) will make your glider harm himself/herself. But as far as everything goes, I'd say it's a definite possibility. That alone should be enough to deter most people from housing a single animal.

Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: animalloversfb] #1334268
03/21/13 01:33 AM
03/21/13 01:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 826
Texas
Imbrium Offline
Glider Guardian
Imbrium  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 826
Texas
Originally Posted By: animalloversfb
In the 2006 AEMV proceedings, Dr. Johnson-Delaney discusses solitary sugar gliders being used in depression studies because all it takes to cause clinical depression in sugar gliders is to house them alone. She also comments on the incidence of self-mutilation...


Originally Posted By: Supergirl
I am a newbie, but just chiming in after reading what was posted about the article above... there are many variables that could effect the outcome, and were not addressed (maybe they are in the full article?) For example... Were the solitary gliders given any attention or interaction from their humans?? How was their housing? Where they left in a bare cage with only a pouch and food? Anyone would go crazy in that type of scenario, even humans! Did they have toys, wheels, enrichment of any kind to keep them busy?


I have the exact same questions. I DO believe that being a solo glider can cause severe depression... but I DON'T believe that it does so 100% of the time, except perhaps if coupled with lack of interaction with a bonded human and/or lack of enough enrichment toys.

I have a solo glider. she's happy, energetic, bright-eyed and very, VERY much a "mommy's girl"... always begging to come play with me when I walk past the cage (and I almost always indulge her).

she's been alone since Trouble passed away about 2 1/2 months ago. she does have a pair of gliders in the same room a few feet away that she can communicate with, though, and she gets TONS of time with me (especially at night, as I'm mostly nocturnal). granted, I DO let her have a supervised play date with Lemmy once or twice a week, as they get along wonderfully... I'd rather let her have play-dates with Tabby so I didn't have to watch like a hawk for any sign of "shenanigans" since Hurricane's at a "probably isn't but potentially could be" age as far as sexual maturity goes, but she HATES Tabby. (yes, I know the "casual friends" concept with gliders is frowned upon and no, I wouldn't suggest what I've been doing to anyone else - especially with an intact male and a younger female - but it's what I believe is in my gliders' best interests based on Hurricane (and Lemmy's) reactions to the play-dates and the fact that Tabitha is always quick to groom and snuggle Lemmy even when he comes home smelling like another girl).

I keep a very close eye on Hurricane for signs of depression, lack of appetite, over-grooming, etc... I plan to bond her to the first joey I get from Lemmy and Tabitha if she'll accept them, though if I see ANY cause to be concerned that a solo life is taking a toll on her before I have a joey ready, I won't hesitate to go out and purchase another glider to be her companion.

overall, my opinion is that having a solo glider is much more likely to cause problems than it is to result in a happy glider... but it's not an absolute. there are exceptions to every generalization. I definitely think that people should always be encouraged to get gliders in pairs, though, especially since I've never heard of a young glider (as in recently weaned/just went to their new home) rejecting a potential cage mate. (I'm guessing they're like bunnies and will get along with anyone as babies but can become picky about who they live with when introduced to a new friend as a juvenile or adult?)


Jennifer

http://www.hurricanesleucisticfriends.com

Proud mommy to:

:grey: Hurricane
:leu: Lemmy
:wfb: Tabitha

and two bunnies - Nala (lionhead) and Gaz (Holland lop)
Re: Single Gliders May Self Mutilate [Re: KarenE] #1334273
03/21/13 01:51 AM
03/21/13 01:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 127
VA
Heroine Offline
Joey Member
Heroine  Offline
Joey Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 127
VA
I have a single glider and have had her for over 4 years. She is a very happy little girl. I'll even be honest, we have a 2 year old so I don't have as much time for her anymore as I would like, but she's still as happy as she can be. When Biddy was born though she never cared for her siblings, just her mother. She's housed in my room so she sees and hears me all the time. I take her out when time permits and my 2 year old isn't trying to catch her. haha.


:grey: X 1 My "Biddy" Butt!
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