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Something every breeder should know #1385562
01/15/15 03:23 PM
01/15/15 03:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline OP
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Sherri  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,830
Big Sandy TN
Any time you get a glider for breeding (regardless of great lineage and great diets) there will always be a chance that the pairing does not become the baby makers that you thought they should be.

Every glider male or female has the decision whether or not they want to be parents. Or how often they want to be parents.

Just because they have great lineage or awesome diets doesn't mean that they are genetically compatible for breeding with each other.

I had received 2 pairs of gliders that did not breed well at their previous home. And I believe that the pairings just weren't compatible genetically. They got along great just no babies.

1 pair I left together and the other pair I swapped mates. The one pair I left alone have produced 1 set of joeys when I first got them but none since and its been a year and a half. The pair I swapped out mates with have had joeys several times since.

I also had a wolf hybrid that her pups would all pass in the first few weeks after being born, it was heartbreaking to watch her try so hard to be a good mom only to have the pups die anyway. The 3rd breeding we tried with a different male and every pup lived from that pairing.

My point is, I wouldn't be quick to jump to conclusions.....some gliders will never be baby makers like we expect them to be, while others exceed our expectations to the point that we think its dangerous that they are having back to back joeys.

There is so much more going on genetically that we don't know about with our gliders. It's never safe to assume that every glider or every pair is exactly like another.


sherri

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Re: Something every breeder should know [Re: Sherri] #1385577
01/15/15 10:15 PM
01/15/15 10:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Excellent post Sherri! clap

I also wanted to add that even when we determine their genetic compatibility (using the kinship chart and the COI), that only means they are compatible on paper. We have no idea what all is truly going on inside; I'm sure there is so much more to their genetics that we don't even begin to understand that comes into play. Sometimes pairs just don't work.


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Re: Something every breeder should know [Re: Sherri] #1385584
01/15/15 10:40 PM
01/15/15 10:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Unfortunately, the concentration on lineage records has been limited to breeding gliders and has been only focused on their coloration differences.

There is a total lack of record keeping on illnesses that might some day be identified as having a genetic component.

Unfortunately this record keeping would require identifying not only the gliders that are used in breeding programs but also the siblings of those gliders who may exhibit some identifiable illness pattern that causes an early death.

Many recessive illnesses may be hiding in the gene pool but are not identified because they show up in non-breeding gliders.

There have been discussions in the past about the "wiggle babies" and another group of related gliders that appeared to have some type of a digestive disorder that lead them to be malnourished even when fed a diet that was successful with many other gliders. The incidence of these problems is probably higher than we realize because they are just not fully recorded and linked to the lineage of the gliders involved. There are probably many other 'syndromes' that may eventually be identified if more records were kept and made available for comparison.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

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Re: Something every breeder should know [Re: CandyOtte] #1385724
01/18/15 07:15 PM
01/18/15 07:15 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
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nancy1202  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
This is very true Sherri. Some pairings just don't work for any number of reasons. These captive gliders don't pick their mates. We pick for them, put them in a cage together and assume it is a done deal.

Originally Posted By: CandyOtte
There have been discussions in the past about the "wiggle babies" and another group of related gliders that appeared to have some type of a digestive disorder that lead them to be malnourished even when fed a diet that was successful with many other gliders.
Can you please give sources or more information about this? I agree that not all gliders will thrive on all diets. I am unaware of this "digestive disorder" with a malnourished group of gliders related to the Wiggle babies.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: Something every breeder should know [Re: Sherri] #1385726
01/18/15 07:27 PM
01/18/15 07:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
The two problems are not connected - they are separate of examples of clusters of symptoms that might be considered to have a genetic origin because the health problems have been observed in gliders that are genetically related to others that have the same health problems.

I was pointing out that some health issues may have a genetic component but without investigating the lineage of gliders that exhibit unusual health problems we will not be able to make the link to a genetic cause.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Something every breeder should know [Re: CandyOtte] #1385727
01/18/15 07:37 PM
01/18/15 07:37 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
OK, thank you for clarifying, and I agree... many issues are not recorded anywhere for easy access to help determine a genetic component.

I would still be interested in your sources or any details about the "digestive disorder" leading gliders to be malnourished on a "successful" diet.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: Something every breeder should know [Re: Sherri] #1385738
01/18/15 09:01 PM
01/18/15 09:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
It was Val's thread about several joeys - parents were Morsel and Kibble - that did not thrive and the possibility that their problems might be a genetic malabsorption problem was discussed because it had been mentioned in one of the necropsy reports on her gliders.

Had there been more research done and lineage traced back on this pair of gliders I suspect there might have been other cases in other gliders who were descendants of Morsel or Kibble's parents or grand parents. Identifying only Ancestors will not give a definite link but if the descendants of those ancestors were identified and similar health issues were found in their descendants that are siblings or cousins of Morsel or Kibble - that would clarify the genetic link.

Unfortunately, the pet glider database only traces gliders ancestors. The 'family tree' is incomplete without linking the descendants as well. The database lists siblings but not who they are paired with and there is no notation in the database when gliders have died at young ages or the cause of their deaths. If that type of information were recorded the patterns of inheritance of any genetic problems would become clearer.

For example if several gliders that were 1st or 2nd cousins were all found to have died of problems that had similar symptoms it would be a red flag that the issue was an inherited one passed on through a common ancestor. We just do not have these types of records on gliders.

It is similar to some dog breeds being prone to hip dysplasia or kidney diseases. These are known problems because records have been kept much more completely in dogs than we have so far been able to do with gliders.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Something every breeder should know [Re: CandyOtte] #1385820
01/19/15 08:26 PM
01/19/15 08:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,899
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,899
LittleRock, AR USA


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