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Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17236
03/07/04 11:58 AM
03/07/04 11:58 AM

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If you can't get Ensure Light (it's not available in all areas), try offering a teaspoon or so instead of a whole tablespoon, or opt for a different diet altogether--I can practically guarantee that GusGus will not lose weight on Darcy's diet!
Obesity shortens the lifespan, decreases energy, makes the heart work harder, decreases the efficiency of the lungs, and increases risk of diabetes and heart attack, to name just a few problems.
Staples sells good quality postal scales for a decent price, look for one with a glider-size pan <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17237
03/07/04 09:34 PM
03/07/04 09:34 PM

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I will definately look for ensure light, tomorrow when I go get them more fruits since my mom didnt get them enough. another question...you said to get the chewable calcium tablets, theyre in antacid form...Well they only type of those they had were Tums...I wasnt sure if this was right because I figured you would probably just say to get tums...?? maybe not? Well, they didnt have 'original' flavor they only assorted fruit flavor, spearmint and mint...I got the fruit flavor, hopefully thats ok? I havent opened it yet, lol but it says calcium carbonate usp 500 mg....antacid. then it says each tablet provides 200 mg of elemental calcium. Let me know the dosage of this product and if I can even use it? thank ya bunches!

Anyone Want To Stock Ruger Calcium Powder Online?? [Re: ] #17238
03/08/04 12:56 AM
03/08/04 12:56 AM

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Based on the response to this thread, there is obviously a lot of interest in Darcy's diet. We have seen a number of posts concerning the difficulty finding a calcium supplement to use with the diet. I wonder if someone with an online store.......Sheila, maybe.....would consider stocking some of the Ruger calcium powder for owners who want to use Darcy's diet???

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17239
03/08/04 01:32 AM
03/08/04 01:32 AM

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ok, im not too sure if this question was posted before and the answer already lies there somewhere up above but i figured i'de ask anyways.
donna, whats the difference between the recommended calcium supplement for darcy's diet and any other supplement? glider-cal from exotic nutrition is crushed powdery , phosphorous free ultra fine and freely availble on the internet. it's guaranteed analysis is as follows,
caclium carbonate 96.5%
magnesium carbonate 3.5%

Re: Anyone Want To Stock Ruger Calcium Powder Online?? [Re: ] #17240
03/08/04 10:36 AM
03/08/04 10:36 AM

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I use calcium citrate. I have spoken to Donna concerning the amount, and she figured out 250 mg per can, or one crushed tablet/ 1/2 tsp per can of ensure. I buy the Jamieson brand found at any Wal-mart pharmacy. See attachment.

Attached Files
Re: Anyone Want To Stock Ruger Calcium Powder Online?? [Re: lillysmomma] #17241
03/08/04 07:33 PM
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I suspect Ruger's only sells to pharmacies. Any calcium supplement, phosphorus free and no Vit. D is fine; Rep Cal is fine, just if it seems to be settling out, try putting it in a blender, food processor or coffee grinder and pulverising it further --idea by Infinitezero, whose Inglish is jest fine wid me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Anyone Want To Stock Ruger Calcium Powder Online?? [Re: ] #17242
03/08/04 07:36 PM
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not sure if you missed my post...but is Tums ok? I used it last night and figured 2 tablets crushed, it dissolved wonderfully and this is the first time they licked their bowl clean. the other time they wouldnt cuz the repcal would settle at the bottom. Just making sure Tums would be ok? Its the only antacid tablets they had and its not expensive at all.

Re: Anyone Want To Stock Ruger Calcium Powder Online?? [Re: ] #17243
03/08/04 07:55 PM
03/08/04 07:55 PM

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JenJen, sorry, yep, I did miss your question. Tums are probably OK as far as the calcium is, but I'm not sure about the inactive ingredients. I would not use the mint flavor, just to be safe--catnip is not good for gliders, and it is in the mint family.
If each tablet has 200mg of elemental Ca, then one and one-fourth tablet would give you 250.

Re: Anyone Want To Stock Ruger Calcium Powder Online?? [Re: ] #17244
03/08/04 08:36 PM
03/08/04 08:36 PM

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thank ya much. yeah i didnt get the mint flavor, i got assorted fruit. they didnt have the 'original' flavor.

An Alternative View of Darcy's Diet.(ENSUREŽ) [Re: ] #17245
03/14/04 06:21 AM
03/14/04 06:21 AM

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Glider Greetings: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Well, it looks likes this thread has attracted another point of view!!! The vet that takes care of Lisa's gliders at Suncoast(Dr. C) has written an article on Darcy's diet. This is the link to the first installment. She is not real crazy about the diet; but we will have to wait for the next installment to find out exactly why.

It should be interesting to hear the case for the opposing point of view. I hope everyone will be respectful of it's presentation!!!

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17246
03/14/04 01:12 PM
03/14/04 01:12 PM

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Randy,
I read the article you're referring to and I thought she did mention why.

An excerpt from her article:
"Why would you feed your pet a human product designed for sick, chronic, underweight, or recovering humans? Next, what empirical data exists to equate human needs to sugar glider needs? In other words, do you assume that human nutritional requirements and sugar glider nutritional requirements are the same? In my opinion and experience, this is not likely the case.

I really want to encourage you to stick with a sugar glider plan for diet and nutrition that has been time tested and proven. This is one of those areas where I personally feel that information derived from the internet can be potentially dangerous to keepers of exotic animals. "

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17247
03/15/04 12:32 AM
03/15/04 12:32 AM

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As far as I knew Ensure wasnt only for the ILL, it was for lack of nutrition as well. and, well, being before my gliders were on Ensure I would say they lacked the proper proportions of all the nutrients needed...now they have it...I guess mine havent been on it long enough and I havent researched it with my vet Im just going by what I've read about other people whos gliders are on it and what their vets have said about it. I will continue to read Lisas dr's side as well as ours, this is very exciting for me.

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17248
03/15/04 01:48 AM
03/15/04 01:48 AM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
It’s hard to argue with success, but the fact remains that this diet was used to save the life of a sick sugar glider.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I understand that she has gone to great lengths and sought the advice of several professionals in her quest to find answers to resolve a life-threatening situation

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
We suspect a prescribed diet using these ingredients to feed sugar gliders began with a very specific situation but now has snowballed into a "diet plan". It is not very likely the use of these ingredients was ever intended as part of an ongoing "diet plan", and they can possibly impact your glider's health negatively.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

above our quotes from dr.C 's article.

wow! firstly i must say some of the comments on that atricle are pretty strong remarks.
secondly i would like to hear donna's view on this, as far as i remember, i read that she had worked with exeprienced professionals at cornell university to devolop this diet for darcy (her ill glider) and also later did she not work with these same professionals about using the ensure diet plan as a regular diet with the rest of her gliders? dont we also have members and glider owners who have used "darcy's diet" over a extended period of time with great sucess, thus making it more that just a diet that "snow balled" from a diet that catered from a sick gliders diet into a mainstream diet?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
what empirical data exists to equate human needs to sugar glider needs?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
what empirical data exists of sugar gliders nutritinal needs i ask? has there been a study of their nutritional needs besides there need for calcium? The last i was aware of was that most if not all mainstream diets were all constructed from a alot of guesswork about thier nutritional needs?

An Alternative View of Darcy's Diet.(ENSUREŽ) [Re: ] #17249
03/15/04 03:00 AM
03/15/04 03:00 AM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
.....I will continue to read Lisas dr's side as well as ours, this is very exciting.....

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Jennie has made an excellent point. Let's all be respectful to the presentation of alternative points of view. And before rushing to judgment, perhaps we should let Dr. "C" present the full scope of her comments.

Thanks.

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17250
03/15/04 10:08 AM
03/15/04 10:08 AM
Joined: Apr 1999
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Jen,

The ensure has been used for MANY, MANY years with gliders, however never (as far as I know)for a healthy glider until Donna's Darcy. for gliders it has been used for gliders that were sick and wasn't eating, those that couldn't gain weight. but they were put on regular diets when they got better or got up to size.

Darcy was diagnosed with lymphoma., and he couldn't put on weight or even maintain it, they developed a diet plan for him which also was fed to her other gliders (healthy),

Before I go any further, I do want to say, that I really do like Donna, we have spoken in great lengths regarding this.

the diet originally suggested by her vet has been changed a few times, the calcium suppliments have as well.

Donna, wants so badly to help other owners, in regards to her gliders have done fine on it, and she would like to be able to help others. I really do understand this.

she is well aware of the many issues that vets as well as dr's are worried about with offering it to healthy gliders. Dr C is another vet with her point of view. the same as a couple agree with it being fed to healthy gliders, there are going to be others that do not agree with it.

Just as Donna is aware that the weight gain is an issue with it, she is trying to work around that. She is being as honest with everyone as humanly possible, she is telling everyone that obesity may be a problem. and what the effects of obesty could lead to. What others are putting out are other things to also consider. (possible side effects)

The fact is the Ensure diet for healthy gliders is in VERY early experimental stage. So that also needs to be considered.

I applaud Donna for her desire to help others.


Dude there is far more "empircle" evidence out there, than what you may happen to read on the net.

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17251
03/15/04 10:20 AM
03/15/04 10:20 AM
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small correction...lymphoma.

Karin


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Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17252
03/15/04 05:25 PM
03/15/04 05:25 PM
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correction made and noted <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> thanks Karin

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17253
03/15/04 09:19 PM
03/15/04 09:19 PM
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Ensure is supposed to be the equivelent of the sustagen used in diets for healthy gliders in Australia. It has been used for years.
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
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Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17254
03/16/04 12:28 AM
03/16/04 12:28 AM

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a very very good point charlie!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Dude there is far more "empircle" evidence out there, than what you may happen to read on the net.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

bourbon, would you be kind enough to share some of that research with us? I have been dying to not only know the nutrtional analysis of BML (which i posted as a question to you in this same thread before and got no response) also to know of any research done on a gliders nutritional needs.
it would be a HUGE contribution to the entire glider community if you could share some of the research thats been done on a gliders nutritional needs.,
Eagerly awaiting a response form you.

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17255
03/16/04 12:41 AM
03/16/04 12:41 AM

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Just a small bit of my mind here I have been letting my gliders try ensure a little here and there about a week or so ago I had to go out of town left in the morning and had to be gone untill the afternoon the following day what would I do I had no one to feed the gliders so I set out dry snacks cheerios bugs and ensure fresh from the can I figured it would be ok overnight since it hadn't been refrigerated yet it worked great they came out sometime while I was gone and still had something good to eat I didn't worry to much about it going sour like yogurts and stuff do I wouldn't leave it longer but it was nice to know they didn't have to go without dinner while I had to go away <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17256
03/18/04 02:37 AM
03/18/04 02:37 AM

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I think any vet can take any diet and find simular flaws if they choose to. My vet finds BML has rediculous amounts of honey! Im sure if he analysed Zoo keepers secret he could find many ingredience that he may feel are not suitable for gliders. I think its up to the owners to read all these opinions, and we must remember, vet or no vet, these are still just opinions, and make valid decisions for our own pets. We may all have different experiences with different diets. Mine are doing wonderful on Darcys and a paper written by one vet doesnt change the results I see everyday. Aside from that, i have seen more vets agree with it then not. Even still, after all is said and done, talk is cheap, and experience shows all. If my gliders are looking well, acting well, are healthy and happy, thats all I need to experience to know im on the right track <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: lillysmomma] #17257
03/18/04 10:17 AM
03/18/04 10:17 AM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I think its up to the owners to read all these opinions, and we must remember, vet or no vet, these are still just opinions, and make valid decisions for our own pets. We may all have different experiences with different diets.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

This makes a lot of sense to me! It's just like people. There is a lot of argument out there on how much of the food pyramid is correct. High carb, low carb, low fat, etc. You get the picture. If we all get regular vet checks for our suggies, make sure they get enough calcium and vitamins and watch their weight, take note of the obvious...no hard dry foods, fresh fruits and veggies along with good protein sources, we can feed a diet that works for OUR gliders. Let's face it, what good is any diet if your glider won't eat it?

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17258
03/18/04 11:16 AM
03/18/04 11:16 AM

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Hey Randy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
Just curious if you were using the darcy diet for your gliders and how they were doing on it ?
I've sorta switched my gliders are on the same diet as my 2 yearold son the what ever I can get you to eat diet lol
my gliders won't eat bml (maby i am not making it right ) they don't like many veggies etc.. what I have been doing (before I get yelled at lol i know this is not a balanced proven diet ) I have been mixing the ensure with a little vanilla yogurt and gerber baby food cereal to thicken it a little bit and cooked carrots blend it all up and put it in ice cube trays. the also get mealworms, dry cereals for day snacks and fresh veggies the darcy diet has really helped alot my gliders wouldn't eat anything I put the repcal and herbative in so umm just curious what you feed and what you thought of my gliders dinner plans <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17259
03/18/04 03:14 PM
03/18/04 03:14 PM
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Frog: just reading your post to Randy, and if you are feeding your gliders ensure there is no need to add additional vitamins outside of the calcium. The Ensure has all the vitamins that are required. That is one of the best things about the Darcy diet! So please be careful so and accidental overdose on regular vitamins do not occur.
I also have my two on the Darcy diet and they are thriving on it. Unfortunately they wouldnt touch the bml more than two times...no matter what trick I tried. As was stated earlier, it doesnt matter what diet or how good it is, if it isnt eaten it doesnt do anyone any good.
Not only is a good diet up to the us, the slaves, but most of all it is up to the children!! It isnt like we can plug their noses and shove a spoon full down their throat if they refuse to eat!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />
So just be careful and add calcium only to ensure! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Peggy
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17260
03/18/04 03:41 PM
03/18/04 03:41 PM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
As was stated earlier, it doesnt matter what diet or how good it is, if it isnt eaten it doesnt do anyone any good.
Not only is a good diet up to the us, the slaves, but most of all it is up to the children!! It isnt like we can plug their noses and shove a spoon full down their throat if they refuse to eat!!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

right on peggy!

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17261
03/18/04 04:33 PM
03/18/04 04:33 PM
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I received an email from Donna last weekend and she told me that her personal vet, 2 Cornell University vets, and a vet in Canada had all approved the diet for healthy gliders. She also said that at least one Australian sanctuary has been feeding its various gliders, including sugar gliders, Sustagen for over 20 years.

I emailed Lisa and asked if Dr. C. would compare BML to the Ensure diet and tell us, nutritionally, where the Ensure diet is dangerous. She said one of Dr. C.'s concerns was the high fat content -- which Donna has already told us about and it's up to us to weigh and keep a close eye on our little fuzzies. She said she has other concerns about it also and will get into that in her next newsletter. But she did say that what it all boils down to is "no one knows for sure" about sugar gliders. And we're all just doing our best. They received some gliders from a person who had been feeding them Boost -- which is not the same as Sustagen and Ensure. They're also concerned that people out there won't know that and use the wrong thing. Lisa said Dr. C. will do some research before writing her next article. I can't wait to read it.

I put mine on the Ensure diet and they eat it all -- and leave a few fruits and veggies!! How do you get the cubes out of the ice trays easy? The ones I got are only 1 1/2 tablespoon to each cube so I just put 1 tablespoon in each. But when I try to get them out, I have to have my son squeeze the tray from the bottom of each individual cube. And that's after I've run water over the bottom of the trays. I've even banged the trays on the counter -- but do you think they would move?? Nope!!

Thanks a bunch.
Sue1

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17262
03/18/04 04:49 PM
03/18/04 04:49 PM

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great work sue. well dr.c's concerns are true. But what i cannot fathom are the comments regarding the diet in her article.
as you and charlie pointed out sustagen which is the equivelent of ensure has been used for many many years on gliders. so darcy's diet is not just a diet that "snow-balled" from a sick glider to being a regular diet.
from what i've heard and read donna did work the pro's-con's of making it a regular diet with experienced proffessionals at cornell so it isnt just something an individual tried out and the rest followed.
If fat content is the worry and the main issue then there are many others who have claimed that The BML it self can be "fatty", the egg, the baby cereal, the wheat, the honey are all fat forming high carb ingredients??
i do like bourbon very much, and donna and lisa from sun coast but my personal likiings and dislikings of the individiuals should have no stance or no bearing towards whats right and wrong.
hats of to suncoast for testing the diet.This kind of scrutiny is very welcome. It is indeed for the benefit of our gliders but dr.c should be presented with all the correct information before she makes her own judgement and makes that kind of remarks.
i would love to see ALL diets been tested and scrutinised like this.At the end of the day it is indeed for the good of the glider.

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17263
03/18/04 04:53 PM
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I don't use ice trays for Ensure. I measure it and put it in a sandwich bag and then freeze. To thaw, simply take the bag out of the freezer, wait a few minutes and pour into a bowl. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (I measure the 2 tbsp. (2 gliders) and then add a tiny extra to compensate for what will stick to the plastic bag)

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17264
03/18/04 06:22 PM
03/18/04 06:22 PM

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Great idea Charlee. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> I was having a heck of a time getting it out of the ice cube trays.


Kim

Re: Learn About Darcy's Diet(ENSUREŽ ), Part 2 [Re: ] #17265
03/18/04 06:36 PM
03/18/04 06:36 PM
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Wallis Texas
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Copied from Sue1 post:

. She said she has other concerns about it also and will get into that in her next newsletter. But she did say that what it all boils down to is "no one knows for sure" about sugar gliders

With the statement "no one knows for sure" comming from the person who is doing the analysis, how can she say this is good or this is bad? If a vet does not know for sure then what it REALLY boils down to is opinions and educated guesses.
Charlie H


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http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]
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