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Serratia #186130
12/14/06 08:59 PM
12/14/06 08:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
My Tira has passed away....and I am just beginning to search for some answers to a couple of things. The vet ran cultures on her wound, and said it was heavy with Serratia, and that is was very resistant to antibiotics. From what I have read and *understood crazy, this is a gram-neg. bacteria. I could only find info as it relates to humans though. Since I am not real good at traveling the net at warp-speed like you younger folk, I was wondering if anyone knows anything about Serratia, and can maybe help me in layman's terms? I could call the vet, but they are so busy, and I just thought discussing it here might shed some light also.
Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Serratia [Re: Karin] #186132
12/14/06 09:03 PM
12/14/06 09:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
pappy1264  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
I don't have any experience, but wanted to say how very sorry I am on your loss of Tira. Godspeed sweet little angel.


Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary
Re: Serratia [Re: pappy1264] #186133
12/14/06 09:13 PM
12/14/06 09:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
pappy1264  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
I was just doing some reading on it. Seems we carry it in our intestines. It is an opportunistic bacteria that used to be seen as harmless, but now is it is known to be a very serious 'bug'. It is very hard to treat, most drugs have no effect on it. As you said, it is a gram-negative opportunistic bacteria. I have no idea how she would have gotten it into her system, but according to what I read (several different sites) we, humans, carry it. http://www.vaccinetruth.org/serratia_marcescens.htm Here is one of the sites I read.

Last edited by pappy1264; 12/14/06 09:15 PM.

Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary
Re: Serratia [Re: pappy1264] #186135
12/14/06 09:16 PM
12/14/06 09:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
BeckiT  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
Gram negative; bacillus; anaerobic

Occurs naturally in soil and water as well as the intestines.

associated with urinary and respiratory tract infections, endocarditis, osteomyelitis, septicemia, wound infections, eye infections, meningitis.

Transmission: direct contact, droplets; has been found growing on catheters, in saline irrigation solutions, and in other supposedly sterile solutions.

Treatment: Includes cephalosporins, gentamicin, amikacin, but most strains are resistant to several antibiotics because of the presence or R-factors on plasmids.

Re: Serratia [Re: BeckiT] #186136
12/14/06 09:21 PM
12/14/06 09:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
BeckiT  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
and here's info related to animals:

Serratia spp. are common bacterial inhabitants of water, soil, manure, feed, and bedding.

Characteristics of Serratia spp. intramammary infections (IMI) reported included: 1) IMI tend to be mild and chronic; 2) clinical signs were sporadic and did not involve systemic signs of disease; 3) bacteria were often shed in low numbers; and 4) isolates were resistant to most antibiotics commonly used to treat mastitis

Outbreaks have been attributed to contaminated water and bacterial colonization of skin. Each of these factors is consistent with known etiological properties of Serratia spp. causing infectious diseases in humans. Serratia spp. infections in humans have arisen from contaminated surgical disinfectants and occur in immune compromised patients including those with dermal trauma.

Re: Serratia [Re: BeckiT] #186137
12/14/06 09:22 PM
12/14/06 09:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Yuck ohwell.

This was external on her wound though...but Misu's mouth was helping the wound along..so to speak. Would it have grown due to the open wound exposed...or could it have come from Misu's mouth...or are we guessing here? (I know this, as I saw some fur in his stool the next day.) Will her cage be a danger to another suggie? (I know to sterilize it, etc., but this being so resistant.) Thoughts?
Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Serratia [Re: Karin] #186141
12/14/06 09:28 PM
12/14/06 09:28 PM

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Im so sorry to hear that Karin but Tira knows that she was loved.

Re: Serratia [Re: ] #186150
12/14/06 09:41 PM
12/14/06 09:41 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I am sorry to hear about the loss of your little one.

Re: Serratia [Re: ] #186164
12/14/06 10:12 PM
12/14/06 10:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
Xfilefan  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Karin, this sounds like it reinforces that the infection was already there BEFORE he messed with it. If he had it already, he'd be sick as well. worried Let me talk to my vet tomorrow, and see what she says. I would say that Misu should be given antibiotics just in case, but let me see what she says first, and I'll call you, in addition to sterilizing everything. Then take him to your vet. Make an appointment for him-this doesn't sound like you want to mess with it if it could be in him-I don't want to rearrange another song. worried

Sterilize everything with bleach/boiling water and dry WELL before he comes in contact with it again-you may need to do it more than once. hug2

Last edited by Xfilefan; 12/14/06 10:14 PM.

Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Serratia [Re: Xfilefan] #186170
12/14/06 10:18 PM
12/14/06 10:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
You can purchase the Industrial Strenth Clorox Bleach at Lowes. (it's thicker and what the hospitals use) Wear a nose mask and gloves. It worked well to kill all the mold and stuff in our basement before we got it redone.



Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Serratia [Re: SugarBlossoms] #186190
12/14/06 10:47 PM
12/14/06 10:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Thank you all for your help and kind words. hug2

Jen...Misu went in for an exam the same night with Tira...he checked out fine...except we could not get a urine sample (tried like all get-out, but he wouldn't give up enough.) He is also on an antibiotic *just in case.

He was removed from their cage and has all new pouches, toys, etc...except for the wheel. Their old cage has been in the garage.

What I am not sure of...and I will call the vet tomorrow...is was this detected on the wound because it was an open, infected wound...or can it continue to thrive elsewhere? I still don't quite understand crazy...par for me.
Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Serratia [Re: Karin] #186194
12/14/06 10:51 PM
12/14/06 10:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
Xfilefan  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
I don't know, either, and that worries me. If it was there, and he ingested it, it can take time to grow into an infection that would be life threatening. If the antibiotic he's on is not suited for THAT bacteria, or not long enough, it could come back worse, provided it can infect from ingestion. (what I was going to call my vet about).

Karin, if you'd like to give your vet my vet's number, it's in the vet links for UT, Dr. Harris. She's very good. If you want me to call her, let me know. I'm worried about your guy.


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Serratia [Re: SugarBlossoms] #186200
12/14/06 11:14 PM
12/14/06 11:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
BeckiT  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
Karin, it could have started with just the teensiest spot which became contaminated (or was already infected) that allowed the bacteria to colonize and spread frown I wish I could find more for you, I wish I could find an answer to why this happened to your lovely princess Tira!

Re: Serratia [Re: BeckiT] #186238
12/15/06 12:18 AM
12/15/06 12:18 AM

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Anonymous
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Karin, I would also spray the old cage down with 90% isopropyl alcohol (available in the grocery store or pharmacy) in addition to the bleach bath.

Sorry I can't tell you much about serratia, although I do remember it being one of the top suspects in eye infections back in path lab. I also remember it being one of the ones we studied under the microscope, but I don't remember details about it.

So did they get a culture and sensitivity on the bug from Tira's wound? If so, is Misu on the antibiotic it was sensitive to, or was there one, since you said it was pretty resistant?

Last edited by PeeperKeeper; 12/15/06 12:18 AM.
Re: Serratia [Re: ] #186253
12/15/06 12:54 AM
12/15/06 12:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Yes, they did do a C & S. The topical ointments available are the one's the vet said the bacteria is resistant to...not the oral antibiotic. I am going to call Dr. Ness tomorrow, and find out as much as I can...I will update of course. (He left a long message the day Tira passed (when he got the results) that I just listened to a couple of days ago.)

Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Serratia [Re: Karin] #186310
12/15/06 06:41 AM
12/15/06 06:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: BeckiT
Transmission: direct contact, droplets; has been found growing on catheters, in saline irrigation solutions, and in other supposedly sterile solutions.

My concern here is the mention of saline irrigation solutions... I know that you were flushing Tira's wound. Was the C&S based on a tissue sample taken before or after you started to flush the wound? If after, do you still have the saline solution the vet provided you with? If so, then bring it to the vet to be tested. If the serratia was present before the flushing began, then that eliminates the saline solution as the possible culprit.
I don't want to be an alarmist, but that just threw a red flag up to me... dunno


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Serratia [Re: sugarglidersuz] #186342
12/15/06 09:35 AM
12/15/06 09:35 AM

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Anonymous
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worried Suz, I was thinking the exact same thing about the saline solution, and the part that it can be present in "other supposedly sterile solutions" is also reson for concern worried

Karin, thank you for bringing this up, it is something we can all learn a lot from hug2

Re: Serratia [Re: ] #186345
12/15/06 09:45 AM
12/15/06 09:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
BeckiT  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
Suz, you know, I typed that info that I found for Karin, but I failed to make that connection with the saline/other sterile solutions frown If it was present in the saline that was being used to flush the wound, that could explain why Misu wasn't affected by it dunno

Re: Serratia [Re: BeckiT] #186652
12/15/06 08:45 PM
12/15/06 08:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Ok...I talked to Dr. Ness today about the serratia. He is an exotics vet...actually owned glider's himself 13yrs. ago. His only concern about Misu would be if he had an open wound...then we would have worries. I asked about the cage, and he said just clean and sanitize it well before using again. All I can say is................whew!
Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"

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