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Re: Why are we feeding these diets??? [Re: ] #272797
04/27/07 09:02 PM
04/27/07 09:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,071
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the gliders angel Offline
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the gliders angel  Offline
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according to aussie vets i talk to they all say why are we making our gliders diets so complicated. use a protein source fruits and veggies. and alot of veriety they think we are all crazy here with special diets.

Re: Why are we feeding these diets??? [Re: the gliders angel] #272798
04/27/07 09:10 PM
04/27/07 09:10 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,501
Parsons, Kansas
dranger1108 Offline
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all I know is my breeders recomended the bml diet, my gliders are happy, healthy, and they look healthy and act healthy so I'm sticking with the bml.



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Re: Why are we feeding these diets??? [Re: ] #272802
04/27/07 09:19 PM
04/27/07 09:19 PM

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Well, the word "proven diet" in the glider community means very different than "proven" in a science sense, and it can be misleading.

In science, for something to be "proven," you have to do multiple studies with controlled variables, gather a great deal of evidence, and after multiple trials and peer review, there is reasonable assurance that something is "proven" or accepted as true (unless additional evidence comes up indicating otherwise).

Here (aka the glider community at large), "proven" seems to mean that many people have used the diet for a long period of time with reasonably high success.

What we are marketing as "proven" diets are not BAD diets. They probably are a better alternative than everyone trying to make their own diets, because frankly, many of us, including myself, are just not educated enough in nutrition to assemble a healthy diet, and using a more "standard" diet like BML or Suncoast that has a reasonably large amount of evidence indicating that most gliders do well on it is a safer option.

However, we must remember that this isn't necessarily the BEST or the be all end all. Part of the problem is that even the scientific community and the vet community in general (probably moreso in the US than Australia) just don't know enough about gliders' exact nutritional needs to mandate what exactly is best.

In fact, the one dietary study that came out recently on gliders that I DO know of found that the gliders on BML didn't necessarily do better than the gliders on the other diets; in fact, they raised pretty grave concerns about possibly too MUCH vitamins in the BML. This is not to say BML is bad, and there were many potential problems with the study (small sample size, cannot determine long-term effects of diet, etc); it's just to say that we have a lot left to learn about what diets are best for our gliders.

All of this in consideration, going with a "proven" diet is probably safer for most of us, since we are not nutritional experts. However, I think that having open discussions about diet and sharing findings is important. We shouldn't poo-poo people with alternative diets (unless they're only feeding SPAM or something) because their diets may be equally viable to the "proven" ones.

The only way that we can improve diets and welfare for our gliders is to continue to learn and share our findings. I'm sure diets out now are much better than diets were for most gliders 10 years ago, and hopefully in 10 more years, we will have made considerably more progress in doing what's best for the gliders.

Sorry, that was long.

Re: Why are we feeding these diets??? [Re: ] #272900
04/27/07 11:32 PM
04/27/07 11:32 PM

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From one verbose Jen to another, I appreciate you stepping up to back my post/this line of thought. smile I think this board, and the glider community, is actually taking a wonderful step forward by even entertaining this discussion! smile I agree 100% with you, and in particular, appreciate you reminding everyone the discrepancy between proven scientifically via empirical data, and proven conversationally via anecdotal evidence. This, to me, is a significant issue, because when I read something about diet intially, and I see the word "proven" marking it, my understanding of it was scientific, as in, backed by medical research. A lot of things that *are* quite good and beneficial in this world are not necessarily "proven" by medical research, so it does not take away from the efficacy or quality of BML or any other loosely termed "proven" diet. It does mean that we must consider that there IS existing medical research to draw from in Australia by professionals who deal with gliders in their natural habitat (as others have already stated).

Even in the human world, dietary recommendations and trends ebb and flow at the drop of a hat. Different time periods come with different dietary recommendations: in the 50's, eating a large steak, a butter and sour cream and bacon-clad potato, and a big glass of milk were part of the All American "recommended" diet. Today, it's the cholesterol special and most people don't eat like that everyday anymore. At some point, people have to evaluate their current practices and be willing to change in order to grow with educational research. Gliders deserve that same dietary growth that we offer ourselves in the human community. When we love our animals, we need not attach speculation, emotion, and habitual loyalty to foods that may be improved upon instead.

Re: Why are we feeding these diets??? [Re: ] #273140
04/28/07 11:43 AM
04/28/07 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted By: 7glider7

Here (aka the glider community at large), "proven" seems to mean that many people have used the diet for a long period of time with reasonably high success.



I think we are on the same page here.....
The definition you gave fits that of mine - just different wording of - but same meaning.


MINE:
PROVEN just means....... to learn or find out by experience.


Re: Why are we feeding these diets??? [Re: ] #273159
04/28/07 12:28 PM
04/28/07 12:28 PM

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Are there diets here in the US that use at least some of what gliders eat in the wild? I read about acacia gum all the time, and i know exotic nutrition sells it. Im just curious..
I personally feed bml, but ive been wondering about it lately.

Re: Why are we feeding these diets??? [Re: ] #273161
04/28/07 12:31 PM
04/28/07 12:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,579
Sherman, Texas
MizValorie Offline
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Posts: 2,579
Sherman, Texas
Elee I know alot of people add it. I use a food grade acacia, and my gliders love it. I mix it in the staple and also do a "paste or gum" of it, some people even put the paste in holes in their branches to stimulate their natural foraging instincts.


Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate
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