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Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: ] #298918
05/27/07 11:14 AM
05/27/07 11:14 AM

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I wrote a research paper on Organic food, and you are absolouty right, "Organic" is just as good as non organic.

Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: eccles] #298926
05/27/07 11:26 AM
05/27/07 11:26 AM

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Originally Posted By: eccles
They are very intelligent and sneaky little monsters that go out of their way to get their own way, our girl Mary Jane was our piked eared princess of mayhem, she chased the dog to play she done the typical bouncy bouncy skunk run when she was found doing somethign she shouldnt, she climbed the stairs and climbed onto our bed stealing our pillows when she was ready for bed regardless of us being asleep or not, she clawed my legs for lap time and cuddles she is sorely missed. Sompy was more alloof he would chase us round the house when he was after something and make a groaning and grunting noise if we caught him upto something he should not be doing, he learnt how to break into the fridge 2 weeks after moving in and ran off with a lettuce (which he hates) to hide under a cabinet with it and then we heard a huge gruning noise and the stomping of his front feet and out popped this lettuce in disgust, we had to have the fridge locked to stop him getting in it. he was not a lap skunk he was a lay by your feet and wait to be stroked skunk but he was himself. We love them both and as you can see they kept us on our toes.

And Gossamer dont worry too much i have seen with my own eyes today what some of the glider community can be like to people they do not think are members here, shame I am aye guys, means you cant go on saying me or Moorie are making this up or Moorie is making up storys to scare people.

I have to say Im socked that only 2 or 3 people have bothered to be even a wee bit sensitive on this subject when it was my kids that died,its a different story when someones glider dies everyone trys to be gentle when replying but no come on me like a bulldozer! thanks I dont think I will be around here much longer I just cant believe how cruel some people are


i do not believe we think moorie is making up stories. I really dont think that was the issue here.
I also really dont think anyone was trying to hurt your feelings.
I have not read once on this or any other forum moorie posted on where someone was calling you or moorie a lier. what made me look into all the other forums was when moorie suggest to me that i was calling her a lier on another forum( which now seems to be edited smile ) So i am unsure why you both are feeling like we dont believe you, and think this is some joke. I think if we thought it was a joke we would laugh and leave it at that.
The issue that was brought to our attention was the issues with grapes and animals dying. I think even if it was a glider who someone said died of grapes everyone would still be talking the same way, wanting more info, wanting to know all the details, and what research was done. It seems as if we all strive on information here since these are exotic pets and not much is well known about them.
I am very sorry for your loss, i know how hard it is to loose an animal that you loved dearly. I hope you can realize that we are here to support you, but we also want information and do not mean to tread on your feelings while trying to gather such.
i know this can be a touchy subject but would you be willing to show us the autopsy report on your little guys. I dont ask because i think you are lying I ask because I think it will help other in the future.

Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: ] #298928
05/27/07 11:28 AM
05/27/07 11:28 AM

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Originally Posted By: CinnaMom
I wrote a research paper on Organic food, and you are absolouty right, "Organic" is just as good as non organic.

Maybe oregon laws are different then.... I'll do more research into this as we speak. I was also wondering when you did this research paper?

Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: ] #298939
05/27/07 11:49 AM
05/27/07 11:49 AM

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i forget how to link on here, so bare with me if it doesnt link correctly.As for organic stuff. Here are the NOP regulations
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NOP/NOPhome.html
It was a lot to read :)so.....
the crop information-pg 45
rules about handeling-pg 53
crop production changes based on comments-pg 63
crop productions clarifications-pg 81
handling changes based on comments-pg 100
handling clarifications-pg 106
description of regulations general requirements-pg 110, and its interesting until pg 114
also there is an interesting table on page 117. Many of you may not know, but there are different catagories for organic stuff, so this table explains it perfectly.
Also another interesting table on page 124
Then i stopped reading for now smile but u get the drift.... there are regulations that farmers have to follow in order to place the organic label on their produce, or livestock.

Last edited by anjuli503; 05/27/07 11:53 AM.
Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: eccles] #298968
05/27/07 12:47 PM
05/27/07 12:47 PM

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I guess it's experience on the boards that makes people read each post w/skepticism. Sometimes that's a good thing.

Here we have all been told of yet another species that presented at the vets as not able to move well (especially in the back legs) and very cold to the touch then renal failure. I've certainly read quite a few times on the boards of gliders dying in this same way and then vets scratching their heads as to the cause. Sometimes it's HLP/dystrophy. But maybe sometimes it's something else.

A glider eating a grape is sort of like a human eating a big watermelon. And a glider eating a globe grape is like a human eating 2 watermelons. And maybe it's the seeds.

But whatever the reason there is a problem w/grapes, we all have a choice to continue to feed them or not. I took them out of my birds' and gliders' diets ages ago. Who needs em?

My dogs and pot-bellied pigs have gotten into chocolate and cocoa and are still alive. Does that mean chocolate is ok? NO. It just means I got lucky. And I put those items on a higher shelf.

Moorie and eccles are very experienced animal keepers in the UK w/extensive knowledge and experience w/exotics. They have related a terrible experience and we appreciate their concern for all of the animals.

Eccles, thanks for posting even though you are so very sad and miss your babies terribly. Big hugs.


Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: ] #299000
05/27/07 01:35 PM
05/27/07 01:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,732
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I just wanted to post an appology eccles if I offended in any way I am sorry and I did not mean to lessen your loss. When I origionally posted I didnt have enough information on what type of animal it was. I am truely sorry for your loss as I know how I would feel if any of my beloved pets died. Its just that it seem we hear a lot of dont feed this and dont feed that. I for one will not use grapes even as a treat anymore for my babies.

Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: eccles] #299334
05/27/07 10:59 PM
05/27/07 10:59 PM

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blush i'm very sorry for your loss, i do have some questions and i'm sorry if they're dumb and may have been answered, how long had you been feeding your little one's the grapes?
what's really sad on this, is that i just first heard of this now! i've had my gliders going on seven years now, and fed them grapes, not everyday but yeah fed them grapes for as long as i've had them! crazy so like dancing having fed hers for more than ten years, i think is what she had said, i'm not saying it's okay or not, i'm just curious, how long you had them eating them, obviously seven years of feeding my suggies grapes should have killed them by now right? i mean i don't read up under diets and feel really bad this is the first i've ever heard of this! I'm not knew in that i know every food that's veg or fruit is going to have potential sp harm being they all come from all over and are grown, honestly just because grapes have been brought up as the only thing seen by vets, shouldn't we now worry about all the other foods we're feeding them then?
i live in North dakota and i guess we grow alot of our stuff here and it's scary to think that according to the study of grapes that i guess my gliders might just die anytime now! so i need honest answers here? if i've been feeding them this long, will they be okay? how would i know if they're not okay, they act normal and play everyday like normal and overal haven't been sick once in the seven years i've owned them, only had to take my male in to get him nuetured otherwise my three have done awesome, other than be a little chuncky! again i'm very very sorry for your loss and totally agreen with the vet if they said it was grapes it was grapes, now i just need to know if i've got major problems now or not? thanks for all replies greatly appriciated dunno

Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: ] #299695
05/28/07 12:28 PM
05/28/07 12:28 PM

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The APCC has noticed a trend in grapes relating to dogs getting sick. Here are the signs they said the dogs were having. NOTE they said a TREND, not YES it is an actual poision from grapes.the link is bellow if u want to read it all
.....The database showed that dogs who ate the grapes and raisins typically vomited within a few hours of ingestion. Most of the time, partially digested grapes and raisins could be seen in the vomit, fecal material, or both. At this point, some dogs would stop eating (anorexia), and develop diarrhea. The dogs often became quiet and lethargic, and showed signs of abdominal pain. These clinical signs lasted for several days -- sometimes even weeks

When medical care was sought, blood chemistry panels showed consistent patterns. Hypercalcemia (elevated blood calcium levels) was frequently present, as well as elevated levels of blood urea nitrogen, creatinine and phosphorous (substances that reflect kidney function). These chemistries began to increase anywhere from 24 hours to several days after the dogs ate the fruit. As the kidney damage developed, the dogs would produce little urine. When they could no longer produce urine, death occurred. In some cases, dogs who received timely veterinary care still had to be euthanized......
http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pro_apcc_publicationsgrapes

Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: ] #303075
06/01/07 08:39 AM
06/01/07 08:39 AM

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Dogs are not supposed to be fed anyway! Anyone who has had dos and a good vet should know this.

Re: More Grape Related Deaths [Re: ] #303557
06/01/07 07:22 PM
06/01/07 07:22 PM

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lol if i had a dog id feed it, although i would stick to just dog food.

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