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Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: Lucky_Glider] #369927
08/24/07 06:30 PM
08/24/07 06:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
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Marz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Lucky_Glider
Wow Marz, as Johnny Carson used to say:

Anyway, since the pollen we get from exoticnutrition.com is not in grain form but is "powdered," do you have any suggestions for figuring how to compare 5 bee pollen grains (granules?) against two tablespoons of bee pollen (powdered)?

Any guidance on that would be helpful. Thanks again!



You got me there! Never seen powdered pollen here.

I can just see you sitting there reconstructing pollen into little grains but just don't use super glue wink

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #369939
08/24/07 06:54 PM
08/24/07 06:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
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Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
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Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Originally Posted By: ThePastafarian
The way I look at it is this - if you provide everything their bodies need, they'll eat it as needed.

Ever get cravings for anything? Sometimes I feel like I just have to have a bannana... and I HATE bannanas! Guess my body knows I need potassium or something.

If you watch gliders closely, you'll see that some nights they eat more of something and other nights they won't touch it!

I think that as long as you provide them a good balance, they'll work the rest out!


Pastafarian, your ascertion may be absolutely correct. Recently, I bought some research papers as part of a joint research project I am doing with an Austrailian colleague. My part of that research was on the Yellow-bellied Glider. Although these are not sugar gliders, I have read similar accounts about them. In these papers the idea of them not "getting enough food / variety" seems to have an effect on social and mating behavior. The converse of getting enough variety and being able to work it out is a tangential argument, but both speak to "adaptability" so I thought you'd appreciate this reply.

At any rate, it seems native, wild possums are adaptable to what happens to be available in the particular sector of their distribution area. For example, it has been observed that Yellow-bellied gliders who have access to fewer blossums and insects will choose monogamy in an inate attempt to reduce colony size and conserve food. In areas where certain blossums are more prevalent and the access to protein is less severe, the mating behaviors are polygamous. These diverse behaviors were ostensibly observed in two separate areas of their distribution at the ssame time.

So the argument that they may eat selectively or eat whatever is available does have merit in the eyes of these studies. One difference; however, is captive possums live longer - which suggest choice has its merits over adaptability.

If you are interested in the studies I refered to here are the details:

"Socioecology of the Yellow-bellied Glider (Petaurus australis) in a Coastal Forest"

Ross L. Goldingay, Biology Department, University of Wollongong, Wollongong, N.S.W. 2500, Australia.

"The regional distribution of large gliding possums in southern Queensland, Australia. I. The yellow-bellied glider (Petaurus australis)."

Biological Conservation, Volume 125, Issue 1 , September 2005, Pages 65-86. Teresa J. Eyre, and Rosalie G. Buck. Wildlife Ecology, Environmental Protection Agency, Forestry Building, 80 Meiers Road, Indooroopilly, Qld 4068, Australia

Thank you for your contributions to the post





Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: Lucky_Glider] #369942
08/24/07 06:59 PM
08/24/07 06:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
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Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
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Van Alstyne, Texas
Thanks Marz, I think what we will do is buy both powdered and granualized forms of pollen and then count out 5 grains and smash them up and measure the resulting powder and then compare it that way... But I gotta wait until after we run out of what we have :-)


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: princessmegi] #369948
08/24/07 07:15 PM
08/24/07 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
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Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
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Van Alstyne, Texas
Originally Posted By: princessmegi
I understand that, but the majority of glider owners do not understand nutritional analysis or the ratios involved in diets. We now have members worried that they are killing their gliders and panicking when they are really feeding good diets... I'm not saying not to post this, but make sure when you do that you aren't causing a panic...


princessmegi, I am not speaking for Brian, but I can tell you I have been wrestling with this "panic" idea for several days now and it is indeed important.

I mean on one hand, you have people who truly want to understand nutrition more and have a thirst for learning more. And on the other hand, there is the spectre of scaring people.

I am leaning towards the idea that knowledge is good, and that to "protect" people from it generally demeans us.

Clearly your suggestion not to panic people is a worthy sentiment. But how shall we "make sure" people don't panic? I hate the idea of putting disclaimers at the beginning that say "now don't panic" or "this is just optional so don't worry yourselves," etc. I mean I have already been called on the carpet for being patronizing, so how does one "make sure" without coming off as being patronizing?

In fact, if you look at the core issue of "not panicking people with information" one could rationalize that that very sentiment could be construed as patronizing because it assumes people are not smart enough to understand.

So as you can see, I am sharing my angst in not knowing how to balance the two out. So without casting disparity on the research, it is hard to walk away and rationalize that it is just "too much" for people to handle. It is truly a predicament.

Any suggestions? I am the new kid on the block and you have been around so maybe you can share your ideas on how we can share information like this and at the same time make sure we are not throwing people into a panic?

Many thanks!








Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: Lucky_Glider] #370288
08/25/07 08:02 AM
08/25/07 08:02 AM

T
TnR
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I understand the answers will be approximate...

How many grapes and blueberries are in a cup?
How many slices are in a bannana, orange, cucumber, and apple?

Should I leave the skin on the cucumber and papaya?
Are there seedless oranges?


Feeding 14 gliders there is still a lot of math even in the "south beach" area.


Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #370348
08/25/07 01:58 PM
08/25/07 01:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
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Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
Maybe you can use an online calculator to guesstimate. Using the USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, I looked up raw blueberries (as an example). It lists 1 cup as 148 grams, or 50 berries as 68 grams. That means roughly 109 blueberries are in a cup.

I haven't counted how many slices are in an average orange, and how many slices really depends on how thick you make the slice (1/4", 1/2", 1"). I slice my bananas (for myself) fairly thin, but slice my apples much thicker.

I remove the skins of all fruits I offer my babies (yes, I even peel my grapes and blueberries tounge ). I don't feed cucumber or papaya, but I would peel those as well.

There are seedless oranges (navel oranges), but they still have tiny seeds.


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
• 2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: KattyM] #370356
08/25/07 02:26 PM
08/25/07 02:26 PM

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Rita
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Ed - There are many of us who appreciate your research and want to hear more. You have taken the diet research to a new level and it is extremely interesting. Im proud to know someone who has the intellect to do this - and then turn around and share with all of us.

This whole "panic" thing seems very simple to me. Everyone has the option to read and learn or skip these posts. If you are having problems understanding - as I did - I let Ed know and he coached me over the phone until I did understand how to figure the ratios. He is in no way trying to be condescending. He is trying to be helpful - as this is the kind of person he is. Im sure that it hurts him deeply to know there are some out there who feel he is talking down to them. He is a very intelligent, very sincere and very kind person who always goes out of his way to help others. Just ask and he will be there for you. Thank you, Ed, for all you do. I applaud you. clap

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: KattyM] #370361
08/25/07 02:59 PM
08/25/07 02:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
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Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
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Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Originally Posted By: TnR
I understand the answers will be approximate...

How many grapes and blueberries are in a cup?
How many slices are in a bannana, orange, cucumber, and apple?

Should I leave the skin on the cucumber and papaya?
Are there seedless oranges?

Feeding 14 gliders there is still a lot of math even in the "south beach" area.


TnR, this is a great set of questions. We generally use the methodology found in the nutritiondata.com site to do our figuring and a lot of our cheat sheet data is sourced from there. The general unit of measurement we use to compare fruits and veggies to each other is the "cup." We have learned that all cups are not created equal and blending is the only way to "bake down" the item enough to make it fit *exactly* into a cup. But chopped is better than blended so the gliders have the joy of chewing...

Kattym did a great job of answering that based on the database she mentioned. What you do in practice may vary depending on the size of grapes or berries, because the larger ones when put into a measuring cup will not yeild as much weight as a cup of small ones (because the space between the large ones takes up room that could be filled with more "grape").

When we do measurements by the cup, or tablespoon, we try to chop or slice the material first to get around this problem. For example, 40 or more small seedless green domestic grapes will pour into a cup. Chop them in half or quarters and more fit in...

Another example is banana. Bananas weigh-in at about 125 grams. If mashed, that'll take up about half a cup. But sliced into roughly 12 to 15 pieces, that'll take up a whole cup. Of course they vary in size, but generally speaking, a whole skinned banana easily fits into a cup sliced up in just less than half an inch portions. Cucumbers tend to be a little larger so although the same sized slices will easily fill a cup, you will have more left over...

Regarding "slices," although they'll never be perfectly uniform, we generally cut them perpendicular to the length of a banana or cucumber and generally in slices just less than half an inch. That's what we call a "small slice."

If you wash the cucumber beforehand it is not imperative to skin it, but there of course is no problem with doing that if you care to put some extra "love" into it like Kattym suggested - good for you! :-) Ditto any other fruit or veggie.

For round fruits, like oranges, we start by cutting them in half. And then, depending on the size, cut wedges out of the "half" where the broadest part of the wedge is no more than a half inch.

For fruits like Papaya, where the "meat" is soft, we generally just scoop it out with a teaspoon or tablespoon to get the desired amount.

For leafy vegetables, we generally "chop" the item first so that the pieces are able to fit into a tablespoon. Because of the "air space" between these leafy pieces, we generally make a tablespoon a "heaping" one to compensate for the "extra air."

With the "glider beach" idea of Peggy's that we explored earlier I mentioned that the amounts tallied up to more than the suggested 1 tablespoon of mixed veggie and 1 tablespoon of mixed fruit. I think it's relevant to mention here, especially if you have 14 gliders, that the variables involved in their feeding justify offering more (accounting for multiple animals) than is suggested for one individual. For example if you have them in separate colonies, as we do, but at least five individuals will be sharing the same bowl, you can count on plenty of waste. (Consider how they steal food from each other and how in the process food is dropped or goes into the litter tray, or how they "fling" food, etc.). We always offer liberal amounts of fruits and veggies to account for this waste exactly because we have more than a few gliders. If yours our like ours, they almost always devour the HPW part of the mix and leave some fruits and veggies anyway.

Also, the "glider beach" idea was meant to keep things simple and less stressful for those who do not want to do a whole lot of figuring. For that reason, I would suggest that if you follow that path, keeping the relative proportion between the items as suggested is probably more important than exact cup amounts. So instead of two blackberries, offer 2 x 14, etc. instead of getting into cup measurements. After all, you'll want to cut and/or offer the food in those smaller slices and increments anyway (that is of course unless they are fussy and you have to blend stuff to get them to eat it).

I tried to provide measurements that are easy like "2 grapes" and "small slice of orange" in order to keep it simple. I hope my definition of the size of these items matches the spirit of the "glider beach" approach as intended.

If you desire to be more exact, this approach may not be the way to go. For what it's worth, the "glider beach" way is very close to what we do for our own gliders. But we make adjustments along the way depending on what's in the fridge. That's where understanding the ratios a little more can be helpful so you can do things 'on the fly' depending on availability.

'Hope this was helpful. Cheers, Ed & Gail


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #370547
08/25/07 10:53 PM
08/25/07 10:53 PM

J
jungleflockmom
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jungleflockmom
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Calcium from whole foods does not pose the danger that supplemental calcium powder sprinkled on food does.

The gliders won't get too much calcium from whole foods if they have the variety that Lucky Glider presents as they will self regulate the foods they eat and the calcium from real food does not pose the danger that too supplement does.

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #370608
08/26/07 12:33 AM
08/26/07 12:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 563
Lynchburg, VA
B
blockamon Offline
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blockamon  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 563
Lynchburg, VA
Is there any research to confirm that animals instinctively choose food to get needed nutrients. I find that hard to believe given that we are giving gliders, basically, totally foreign food. I mean, maybe if they had unlimited access to natural branches, leaves, and blossoms they would self-regulate. But, how does a glider know that the collards are a good source of XXX, when it's never seen collards before.

That's why I'm a fan of chopping things together or blending to make sure they eat everyting served. If they still pick and choose, I feel safer with a calcium supplement.

The key to me is to offer the supplement in a specific, measured amounts to give enough, but not too much. Options are to mix it with the Leadbeater's mix or to down-blend the calcium powder with other powders (milk replacer, acacia gum, etc.) until you can use a reasonable scoop (like 1/8 tsp. 2-3 times a week).

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: blockamon] #370654
08/26/07 02:07 AM
08/26/07 02:07 AM

7
7glider7
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7glider7
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7



To the best of my knowledge (and I am by no means an expert on this) I have read some articles (but they were in popular literature, I have not read the primary sources) that some cravings for certain foods may actually be the "body's way of resolving a deficiency." For example, perhaps if I was not getting enough Vitamin C, I would crave citrus fruits.

However, as far as I know it has NOT been substantiated that humans or any other animal will formulate a balanced diet based on these cravings alone. In other words, you cannot trust that if you provide your glider a smorgasboard(spelling?) of various fruits that it will eat the ones it "needs" or that are "best for it."

Even without scientific evidence, just think about this in terms of your other pets (like dogs) or children, if you have them. If my dog Harlee could eat whatever she wanted she would certainly eat all table scraps and not her kibble. Most kids I know would forego the salad bar and avoid vegetables all together in favor for desserts. And if I let my gliders choose, they would all eat only mealies. And if I offered them all sorts of fruit, Kirby would eat only melons, Tanooki wouldn't eat the fruit at all, and Zoey would eat...well, everything.

My point is I don't think from what I've read and personal experience that we can trust our animals to self-regulate their needs. They eat what tastes best to them. Sometimes they may crave a certain food that is beneficial to them, and this may be linked to need...I am not dismissing that claim. But I don't think we can go on that alone.

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: blockamon] #370658
08/26/07 02:14 AM
08/26/07 02:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
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Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
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Van Alstyne, Texas
Brian, that's a good point. When I first started using the HPW plan, I bought some calcium supplement for the same reason you are explaining. But now that we tallied-up the calcium that's already in the HPW and add the fruits and veggies I'm wondering if you need to add more. I did make the point early on in this post that the F & V make the difference though. So I guess you are hedging your bets as it were in case even that is not enough... And of course, I am suggesting it is enough but then we have the sticky problem of those little furbutts not always eating their F & V...I think maybe we can do some more research on that together if you want to.

Also, in the wild, based on the stuff I've read, gliders pretty much eat what's available to them depending on the region they live in. That's what was the core of the other discussion on how single partners vs. multiple partners came in so far as 'regulating' scant food supplies. But I don't reckon they have much chance to self-regulate owing to variety... Man, I wish they did know how to do that and all this figuring would be for nothing :-)

[just added - 7glider7 yours and mine must have "crossed" since I think we wrote and the same time... sorry if mine is redundant at all]

Last edited by Lucky_Glider; 08/26/07 02:16 AM.

Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #370661
08/26/07 02:22 AM
08/26/07 02:22 AM

7
7glider7
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7glider7
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I also wanted to post to thank Ed and Gail for this information. I can see that it has caused some panic and that is unfortunate. But it is also immensely helpful for those who want to learn more about nutrition.

I think sharing as much information as we have is what is most beneficial for our gliders. If others are afraid to come forward and share research they have done in fear of panicking others, how will we progress in our knowledge of gliders and how to best care for them in captivity?

If you don't understand this information or it is too cumbersome for you, that is fine. Disregard it. As long as you are following a diet that has been used by others with success, or approved by people who are experienced in exotics and nutrition, you are doing well for your glider. Think how many people out there are feeding their poor gliders birdseed and cheerios only.

Honestly, the diets on the diet page here are not "bad diets;" in fact, any diet used by that many people with that much success is obviously pretty "good." And if you are feeding one of these diets, give yourself a pat on the back. Don't panic! Your glider will be fine, as are the many other gliders who have eaten this diet before your glider.

That being said, sharing this sort of information is how we all learn, and by learning we might someday be able to make our diets for gliders even "better." (ie, meet their nutritional needs more exactly).

To say that someone shouldn't share information in fear of "panicking others" is really unfortunate and frankly a little insulting to everyone's intelligence. Good science is about objectively sharing facts and findings and evidence that you have found. As a science teacher I'd like to think we've come far enough that we can handle someone sharing some well-thought out nutritional analyses about a sugar glider diet without everyone wigging out about it. After all, it's not like we're just finding out for the first time that the Earth actually revolves around the Sun smile That really caused some panic. Poor Galileo got locked up for a while after that one.

Thanks for sharing this, and please, share on.

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #370677
08/26/07 02:41 AM
08/26/07 02:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Jen -

I completely agree. However, the difference between education and frightening could be in the presentation? I don't know. It is something I'm putting out there.

I'm wondering if rather than saying "HPW is NOT a diet until you do this complex math that you don't understand" ... perhaps something more along the lines of "HPW is a great place to start. However, I'm wondering if it could be improved with the application of a little math."

No - I'm not saying "dumb it down." I'm saying everyone on this forum has been encouraged to believe that the diets in the diet link are approved diets. So, coming along and saying "You are wrong and it could hurt your gliders" *is* going to panic some people.

Now - I've discussed this with Ed. I do NOT believe, as I've told him, that telling people they could harm their gliders was his intention - or even, for that matter, what he was actually saying. However, I believe that the initial presentation left that as a possible interpretation.

I'm glad that so many have stuck with this and are willing to learn more. So little has actually been researched about glider ownership. Further research and analysis will benefit us all.

Math is one of those "hot button" topics - like religion and politics! I needs to be approached with sensitivity for the benefit of the Mathematically Challenged (of which I am one). Start throwing math at me, and my brain goes numb! All I can hear at that point is "You are doing everything wrong and your gliders are going to suffer for it."

Fortunately, I'm able to work my way through my panic and recognize the cause, and then work through that to try to understand the math! LOL I think that panic is a knee-jerk reaction for me when I'm confronted with too many numbers! I am not asking that things be "dumbed down"! I'm only asking for a little math-compassion. Which Ed has been gracious to offer!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ValkyrieMome] #370834
08/26/07 02:21 PM
08/26/07 02:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 563
Lynchburg, VA
B
blockamon Offline
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Lynchburg, VA
Ed, one thing I should note is that I do NOT use the HPW diet. I use a mix about 1/2 way between PML and HPW, but I feed a diet more based on the Taronga zoo diet. I basically feed a small amount of pellet, some animal protein, the mix, and fruits and veggies. So, I personally need a calcium supplement to offset the extra phosphorous from the meat.

With the HPW as the only protein source, balancing the calcium with the F&V should be possible as long as the gliders eat well. I guess you can also use portion control to "force" them to eat some of everything.

I just don't think people should discount calcium supplements entirely because they are "unnatural." Gliders will get calcium in nature from egg shells and the bones of small birds (which are mainly calcium carbonate). Add to that the high calcium content of their native food because of the calcium-rich soil, and they probably get a lot more than we think.

Sure, too much calcium can be bad. Therefore, I don't recommend the method of dosing a lot so that any combination of foods (even high-phos) is tolerable. However, you'd probably be surprised how little it takes to give the diet a boost. I think I calculated that it would only take about 1/8 tsp. of Glider-Cal to boost the Ca:P ratio of my mix from~1.2:1 to 2:1. Compare that with the 2 tsp. used by some diets.

Last edited by blockamon; 08/26/07 02:22 PM.
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: blockamon] #370998
08/26/07 06:24 PM
08/26/07 06:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
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Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Brian thanks for offering that information. Yes, I think depending on how much of the fruits and veggies they actually eat, it stands serious consideration as to adding a calcium supplement. I'd like to see some others weigh in on that. But let me say first that I realize it's not just about calcium... :-)


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: Lucky_Glider] #371200
08/26/07 10:05 PM
08/26/07 10:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
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Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
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Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
jen, alden, thank you both for your encouragement and guidance. Yes, presentation is important. I shall try in the future to provide qualifying comments and proper "set up" so as not to scare people. I shall also try to do that in such a way that people do not feel like their intellect is in question. It's a delicate balance as evidenced by this post and its offshoots. Of course I count on my friends here to push it back on track if it looks like it is veering away from what's intended. You guys are doing a good job of that and clearly helping to keep this thread constructive and true.

Many thanks for your thoughtful and continued input. (everyone)

- Ed


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: Lucky_Glider] #372778
08/29/07 02:24 AM
08/29/07 02:24 AM

R
River
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River
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I have to say that Rita and Jen are right on in her defense of Ed. I was a little stressed to find out that feeding a glider isn't as simple as the three cups of dog food I feed my dog twice a day but I just can't see how Ed's education has caused offense as it has. It does not seem like he has personally attacked anyone at all yet some have been striking back like he has. I for one am on this web site for the sole purpose of learning how to feed my gliders and I am more than thankful that someone here is mindful enough and interested enough in the process to work out diets and better yet, be willing to share his time to teach others what he has learned. Am I going to ask my vet for advice on this? Heck no, she does not specialize in sugar gliders in the least and I would guess that very few actually do. Just because you have a degree in something does not make you an expert, you have just begun your education when you graduate. Schools are for the basics and you can not assume your vet knows what the proper diet of a glider would be. I do not get the impression that anyone here feels like they know everything about feeding gliders but at least some here are interested in the topic enough to research it to their fullest extent so that I don't have to and I am very thankful for that. My panic has nothing to do with the actual worry of my gliders nutrition, my panic is over the fact that I have to actually learn something new and put a little extra time and thought into my work and I am often stubborn about those concepts. I don't mean to sound fussy, but hey, lets face it, I am because I know I couldn't handle all the snake bites like Ed has and frankly, I don't want him to be discouraged to share his research.

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #372834
08/29/07 09:09 AM
08/29/07 09:09 AM

W
Wantiki2
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Wantiki2
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I would like to add my voice to River's in applauding Ed for his well-written and informative posts. I am extremely grateful that the GC family has folks like Ed that so very unselfishly share their knowledge with us. After all, we are all here to learn and share information and experiences for the 'good of the glider'.

Re: HPW DIET NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS [Re: ] #373206
08/29/07 07:01 PM
08/29/07 07:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
Glider Lover
Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
River, Wantiki2, you are very kind. I think sometimes I make cynical or ironic observations and that gets people mad, but I am trying hard to not let my style get in the way of the message. I hope I get an overall "plays well with others" on my GC report card at the end of the semester :-)

Gail and I are just glider lovers like everyone else here and we enjoy learning from others and sharing photos and stories. We really love to tell stories about our colonies and our gliders' antics, so this post is more of our "serious side." We are mostly just glider-obsessed is all... :-) It feels good to make new friends though so thank you and I hope we can learn a lot from each other over the years and also have fun!


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
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