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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#428774
12/05/07 11:18 PM
12/05/07 11:18 PM
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Squeaky
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Squeaky
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It wasn't rescheduled. There's another hearing of the meeting next Wednesday at the same time I believe, and then around the 19th (not the official date as there isn't one yet) is the public hearing where anyone is welcome to come and speak.
As for the petition, they said they'll submit it to review but it would be more credible if it was actual signatures and specifically people from St. Paul.
Which is a lot of hooey in my opinion.
Today was not fun.
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: GliderLove]
#428875
12/06/07 02:42 AM
12/06/07 02:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
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Keep us posted! Hopefully another week or two will give us time to get more signatures, make signs, print literature, find people in St. Paul and all that jazz!
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: Usha77]
#431059
12/10/07 12:16 AM
12/10/07 12:16 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
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Glider Addict
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Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#431186
12/10/07 08:03 AM
12/10/07 08:03 AM
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magilarilla
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magilarilla
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Gwen, will you be going to the meeting this week? Working overnights, I can definitely get some sleep and then go. Also, I just found the minutes from the meeting last week as well as the "Staff Report Requesting a Change to City's Ordinance..." at http://www.stpaul.gov/council/mas/council/2007/ ...then go to either Agenda or Action Minutes (I cannot remember which one!) for more info.
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#431658
12/10/07 11:23 PM
12/10/07 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
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Glider Addict
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Posts: 3,420
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Going in this week is basically pointless...less you want to just listen. I could go in to drop off more signatures...but I can just as well mail them too.
Next week is the important meeting...reading #3 is public...and people can speak. We should all go to that...well anyone that can make it that is.
~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#431673
12/10/07 11:40 PM
12/10/07 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
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Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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Ok...read over what you found for me Krissa...thanks. I have not made it to the St Paul vet yet...maybe I can get in there and get him to write up some info on gliders and sign it...not sure. Probably best to cal and get to talk to him...will try to work on that. UNLESS...anyone has a great vet that they get in touch with SUPER easy...then maybe that would work. I have never talked with the vet at Como...let me know if any takers on getting this info. Oooh! Maybe I will try the vet right by me too...they are close and they treat gliders for sure!
~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#431679
12/10/07 11:45 PM
12/10/07 11:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
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Posts: 4,008
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When you say the Saint Paul bet are you talking about Animal Emergency Clinic on University? Cuz they are awesome! They really helped Lan out with the whole SM situations...
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: Usha77]
#431713
12/11/07 12:26 AM
12/11/07 12:26 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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Them or Como. Info from them...written or typed...stating facts on gliders...what we need in arguemet against what has been said so far. See above for link from Krissa.
~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#431726
12/11/07 12:39 AM
12/11/07 12:39 AM
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magilarilla
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magilarilla
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I just posted about this with some hedgehog lists I belong to because if you read the staff reports, its scary how easily this same logic could be used to ban hedgehogs as well as gliders. If anyone is interested in getting a copy of my email, just PM me and I can send it to you if you'd like to send it out.
Gwen, what have you been dropping off? Could I get a hard copy and see about leaving some maybe at area pet stores? Living right by Maplewood Mall, we've got quite a few here!
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#431736
12/11/07 01:00 AM
12/11/07 01:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#431908
12/11/07 09:02 AM
12/11/07 09:02 AM
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magilarilla
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magilarilla
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Now the possible glider ban is front page news with the Pioneer Press Pioneer Press article on Banning Gliders. Thank you Priscilla Price for having a pro-glider view point and being so eloquent in getting it across! Its scary because the first article with Bill Stephenson seemed quite absurd while this Pioneer Press one actually has some research (even if I do not agree with lots of it) behind it! Yikes!
Last edited by magilarilla; 12/11/07 09:03 AM. Reason: had to figure out how to add websites
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#431934
12/11/07 11:51 AM
12/11/07 11:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
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Thanks for the link, Krissa. I added my comment to it...
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: uraqt33]
#432181
12/11/07 05:22 PM
12/11/07 05:22 PM
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Squeaky
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Squeaky
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Wow. Way for the Pioneer Press to take every even remotely negative aspect of having sugar gliders and embellish on it like crazy.
Because I know I sure didn't realize they'd be so smelly, loud, and wild [/sarcasm]
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#432217
12/11/07 06:00 PM
12/11/07 06:00 PM
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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magilarilla
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What would I do without you guys? For a self-proclaimed geek, I'm pretty non-internet sauvy since I didn't even realize that. Just got done reading the comments...did anyone even think about the damage even Jimmy's sweet Lassie could do if she went feral? All this talk about feral sugar gliders as an invasive species, but many animals can become problematic to the public at large if forced to live outside the circle of humans.
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#432508
12/11/07 11:46 PM
12/11/07 11:46 PM
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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magilarilla
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OK, just got off the phone with a friend who works for the St. Paul Chamber and he gave me lots of good advice so here goes. First off, he told me we really need someone from St. Paul to start things off. This person doesn't necessarily have to own gliders (though that would be preferrable), but should be glider-sauvy. This would be the spokeperson in a way. They would say their piece and also kinda give an outline of other speakers. Other speakers would more or less refute evidence given in the staff report (see above link I gave) and/or offer new evidence. This needs to be a St. Paul resident because that will give us the most bang for our buck. Regardless of how this might effect the rest of us long-term, only a St. Paul resident will really have any vote in the matter. Perhaps we could find a pet store owner also that would double as a St. Paul resident? He recommended that we get either a vet to show up or get evidence (maybe signed on company letter head?) from vet(s). This evidence could cover a number of things. The staff report mentions that (1)glider knowledgable vets are difficult to find, (2) diet for captive gliders is difficult to prepare and provide and (3)gliders could survive in the Minnesota ecosystem. A vet could refute all these things much better than any of us could. He recommended that we come prepared with evidence from different humane societies concerning number of dogs or cats or rabbits or whatever abandoned in one year versus the number of gliders to show that this is not an epidemic problem that needs legislation. Also, it would be good to have an estimate of how many captive gliders there are nationwide and how many are going through glider rescues in the course of a year. When it comes to the comparision of gliders as an "invasive species", it needs to be pointed out again that they wouldn't be able to get a foothold like milfoil or zebra mussles. He also pointed out that there are certain breeds of dogs which cannot survive a MN winter without a warm house to live in and daily meals provided for them. And how much more damage can a feral dog pose than a "feral" glider? Basically, we need to refute the claims which have been made on a point-by-point basis and add information refuting other possible points that have not yet even been voiced. And once again, after our St. Paul resident has started us off, anyone can refute the claims. Goodness, that was wordy...and hopefully made sense. Any questions and I'll try to clarify. My friend is also willing to answer more questions. After all, its the least he can do after mocking my 445am emails to him! And for at least one Minnesotan, I cleared up the confusion as to just how they "sound like a cross between a baby seal and a chihuahua".
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#432758
12/12/07 11:52 AM
12/12/07 11:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
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hehehe...well, how can we get this going? I know the Animal Emergency Clinic in St. Paul sees gliders and are quite knowledgeable about them - particularly Dr. Jeff Bush - he saved Lan's life when he SM'd after his neuter. Their website even has a pic of a baby glider on it & they say right on the website that they treat gliders http://www.aec-tc.com/ http://www.aec-tc.com/ourpatients.htmlhttp://www.aec-tc.com/gallery/categories.php?cat_id=1- how can they say that the vets are hard to come by when there's one right on University in St. Paul??? Ugh!! And I bet Dr. John Baille of Cedar Pet Clinic would be able to refute some of that...he sees gliders... http://cedarpetclinic.vetsuite.com/Templates/traditional.aspx
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: Usha77]
#433216
12/13/07 01:02 AM
12/13/07 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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I have sent an email to Center of Disease Control. Awaiting my response. This is in regards to the lack of a rabies vaccine. It may be possible that gliders temperature is too low for them to host the rabies disease and transmit it. If that is valid information...this arguement for them is a lost cause. I am hoping they reply soon.
Also, in that Star Trib article...I am not impressed with comment made by Kessler saying they are not trying to take them away...what a joke...read the ordinance... Sec 198.03 (9): Any Sugar Glider (Petaurus Breviceps). Any person keeping any prohibited animal identified above may have it seized immediately by animal control.
Somebody is failing BIG time at their job!
~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#433258
12/13/07 02:11 AM
12/13/07 02:11 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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2nd reading was today...7 in favor and none opposed. We need to show up next week and pull a hat full of tricks people!
~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#433388
12/13/07 12:40 PM
12/13/07 12:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
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I got the okay from my boss for the day off...as long as I don't get arrested she said! She said I should just bring Nynaeve and she'd crab at them all and bite them. Somehow, I don't think that would help our cause. Do we have any St. Paul residents on our side? Has anyone spoken to the vets in the area? Any documentaion or proof that gliders don't carry rabies and that they cannot survive Minnesota winters? I am not a leader, but I am a great follower - someone tell me what to do & I'll do it!
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: Usha77]
#433399
12/13/07 12:58 PM
12/13/07 12:58 PM
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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Well, I'm going to your vet today Brenda...unfortunately for the hedgehogs, not the gliders. Rilla needs an annual as does Tiegen, but Tiegen's got some bumps that I'm afraid might be cancerous. Fingers crossed...she's my feisty girl. Have you read the staff report? I think that is a good place to start. I also thing overlap would be fantastic. How much more of an impact would it make to say we have 10 vets saying a glider would not survive a winter outdoors instead of only one vet. Or have vet approval of not just one diet, but several (in reply to the staff report saying that their diet is difficult). I work overnights (in case you've noticed the crazy times I post) and have today and tommorrow off this week and Wednesday and Thursday off next week so I'll definitely be there too. Does anyone else have any ideas?
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#433494
12/13/07 04:13 PM
12/13/07 04:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
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Where do I find this report??
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: Usha77]
#433500
12/13/07 04:36 PM
12/13/07 04:36 PM
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magilarilla
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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Here you go Brenda Staff Report I had to run errands today and I stopped in at Twin Cities Reptiles and YAY! they have Gwen's handout right in front of you on the counter. I gave info to be passed onto the store owner which included contact info as well as how to get to this thread since it has a lot of links in it. I also invited the owner or anyone else there to come to the meeting. We'll see. A girl named Becca is who I spoke with and she was uber-helpful and sympathetic. We really need to be dynamic and persuasive with this. Like Gwen mentioned, at the meeting yesterday, there are currently seven in favor of the bill and none against! YIKES!!
Last edited by magilarilla; 12/13/07 05:04 PM.
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#433517
12/13/07 05:11 PM
12/13/07 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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Not sure how easy it will be sneaking in Nynaeve. I do not think you are supposed to bring in animals to government buildings. You go through a metal detector and stuff...I however did sneak in Gracie...as she had the IP (that was coming in and out...lol) at the time and Gracie was everywhere with me. But yeah...they might kick you/us out.
You might call Shari Moore (City Clerk). She is the one who took and submitted my petition. You may call and inquire if you can bring your baby. Tell her that you would have her zipped in a bag with no ways of escaping, but feel it may be good for the people to actually "see" what they are voting for/against. I could bring a pair.
Let us know. Her number is 651-266-8686
~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#433520
12/13/07 05:19 PM
12/13/07 05:19 PM
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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What does everyone think about bringing in a collage or something with pictures? Showing more than just how cute they are, but cage set-ups, meal prep, interactions with us humans?
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: ]
#433529
12/13/07 05:36 PM
12/13/07 05:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
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The collage idea sounds really good - all I have are pics of their cage & the babies, tho. And, if I were to bring any of mine in, it would probably be Lan & Tika - they're the most mellow of the 4... Oh, and thanks for the link, Krissa!
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: Usha77]
#433548
12/13/07 06:02 PM
12/13/07 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420 Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
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Still no email from CDC...I called. There is no time frame for emails to be returned sadly. Ugh. I was transferred to the rabies lady...she did not answer. I left a message. Hopefully she will return my call.
~GWEN~ Crazy Hubby Dru Tortoise: Vork Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#433550
12/13/07 06:04 PM
12/13/07 06:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008 Greeley, CO
Usha77
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
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I hope so! This is so ridiculous! I'm reading the report & just wish the only argument we needed was to just say, "Nuh Uh!!" - Ugh! I will work on researching and talking to people over the weekend. When is the meeting and do we get to speak and ask questions before they actually vote??
Brenda 970-616-2872
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa Dogs: Nacho & Dory RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas www.sugargroup.org
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Re: St. Paul's pet ban--petition made
[Re: cinnamonstix]
#433561
12/13/07 06:14 PM
12/13/07 06:14 PM
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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magilarilla
Unregistered
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Hey Gwen, do you know what the body temps are that rabies doesn't flourish in? I have photocopies in front of me from the Merck Veterinary Manual (I believe) which states that a sugar glider's rectal temperature is 36.2 plus or minus 0.4 degrees C or 97.2 plus or minus 0.7 degrees F. Don't know if that helps at all. Per this page of the American Veterinary Medical Association , horses, sheep, goats, pigs and ferrets have also been diagnosed with rabies. Nowhere does it mention gliders and also, I don't believe it is required for all of those animals to get rabies vaccines?
Last edited by magilarilla; 12/13/07 06:17 PM.
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