Okay, Binx had green discharge. The culture showed klebsiella pneumoniae, at one point. He is the one of mine that had his anal glands removed. I would suspect anal gland involvement-they SHOULD be about the size of a grain of rice.

Now, apparently he IS hurting, but not PRONE to SM-so watch him until you can get that collar on. Wrap him in a towel like a burrito and hold him NON STOP if you have to until someone can help you get the collar on-once a glider has done damage, his risk of dying or long term/permanent injury goes up EXPONENTIALLY. You NEED a painkiller (Torb-aka Torbuterol, Butorphanol-known in horse circles as Bute, or Buprenex in suspension). Metacam is ONLY good for 3 days and deals mostly with inflammation (swelling), not pain (the difference between Lortab and Advil), and while it may be helpful IN CONCERT with another painkiller for inflammation, that is MOST ALL it does, and WON'T help enough with the pain that is making him Crab at himself-Chronos did that BTW.

Read this one, next post will be some tips for the collar.

The antibiotic(s) I recommend depends on the following: What did they see under the microscope, and did they send it for culture?

Are you POSITIVE the vet didn't manipulate his anal glands at ALL?

Did they use a syringe to get the sample?


Edit: note: 'Bute', and Buprenex are two different meds...too tired to figure out how to word that different at the moment.

They DIDN'T take a sample! She did feel his lower abdomen and said it felt fine, nothing enlarged. She put him on Baytril. I have added Buprenex (in apple juice), he is getting that every 8 hours or so. She gave him injectible baytril yesterday and today he started the oral. My question is, is his not eating normal? Is that from pain? I worry about a blockage, since I have not seen him pee or poo since yesterday.

Will the baytril work if it is from his anal glands?

Use Duct Tape. Riker's was grey DUCK brand. I know they make different colors now, but really haven't seen any of them but through the package, and don't know if they'll work. Some medical tapes (NOT the paper) will do also. Attach a piece of tape to the RIGHT HAND side of the collar (or if you're left handed, the LEFT side). Wrap Petey up TIGHT in a regular terrycloth handtowel (it provides more traction than fleece, harder for him to get out of).

Before you start, have the collar WITH the tape on one side, ready on like a coffee table in front of you, or right beside you.

Wrap him, and hold him between your thighs. Grab collar, and put around his neck.

This may sound odd, but once you have the collar AROUND his neck BEFORE putting the tape down, stretch his neck out GENTLY with the collar eith ONE hand-use the other to help tighten, and tape. He's going to try to scrunch up, which means when you let go, he can shove it off. Stretching him out will minimize that. Tighten it, tape it, and let him go on a blanket on the floor to fight with it.

WATCH his nose closely it doesn't go blue!! If it does, take it off, and repeat that entire process. It's how I did Riker at first by myself. Darker red IS OKAY. Blue is what you don't want.

If he can crab-he can breathe.

The collar stresses or "freaks out" EVERY glider. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Riker thrashed for 40 minutes. Some go longer, some not as long. It may take 30-minutes to an hour of thrashing around before he stops, and will still try periodically thereafter to remove it. Let him fight it. It's sad, but necessary. Damage is MUCH worse. If he does get it off, try again. Once he DOESN'T, he will begin to learn and accept. Though for ANY glider in a collar, the more attention from YOU, the better. It does make them depressed.

Having a glider die by ripping it's own intestines out it's abdomen is MUCH, MUCH worse than the collar.

Okay, Mary? For right now, Can YOU feel his anal glands? Hold him in a towel between your thighs. They are not up in the abdomen. They are at 3:00 and 9:00 (Edit: approximately) to the sides of the cloacal opening if his tail is facing you and he is on his back in your lap.

They should be about the size of a grain of rice or slightly larger-barely detectable. If pea size or bigger, they're infected.

It also DOES NOT matter for now if the collar is on perfectly straight as long as IT STAYS on, and he can breathe ok. You'll be able to adjust it better later when he's tired of fighting.

Question on the green discharge-was it at all thick or grainy looking? With like specks in it?

It looked like pea soup, no flecks visable to the eye, not grainy looking (she did wipe it with a paper towel). She palpated down by his pom area and back (is that where the glands are)? God, I wish I could have spoken to you yesterday! I have never been through this and it is awful not knowing what to ask. I am going down there tomorrow. Hubby said he will try again to help me put the collar on when he gets home. Problem is, it is a 'shotglass' one and I am not sure it is big enough for him. I will have to try the terry cloth, as he easily escaped the fleece (and I wrapped him pretty tightly!)

He is still sleeping, if he doesn't get up I will check when he is due for his pain meds (since when he is asleep, he is quiet). What about trying to get him to eat? Should I just stick with the pedialyte for now???? He won't eat on his own, so would be via syringe anyway. Thank you so much Jen.

Mary, his anal glands are to either side of the cloaca. Underneath. Similar to a ferret, but MUCH smaller.


How long has he not eaten?

IF he is NOT dehydrated, you can put vanilla Ensure down by syringe- or BML, or HPW if that's a concern. You want him to keep his strength up to fight this. Just be careful and go slow, so he doesn't suck any into his lungs.

You can also offer gliderade, or syringe feed it, as well as the pedialyte.

I would recommend what Binx and Riker took for their infections. Since they started antibiotics, a culture now would be compromised. Baytril, Flagyl, Clindamycin to cover the broadest spectrum. I can help with dosages pm the Flagyl and Clinda to guide your vet-PM me his weight (Petey's) in grams.

Edit: you can forcefeed (syringe feed) .5, or half a CC, food every couple hours or so. The more he maintains his weight, and doesn't LOSE weight, the easier he'll fight this.

Let me see if I can find a pic of the green discharge we had-and you can tell me if it's similar. After the computer reload, everything is still a mess with me working 7 days a week. I'll edit THIS post with pics. I posted it a long time ago, but no idea what the title of the post is any more.

Its been two nights. I am going to get him up now (time for his pain meds) and will see if I can feel the glands. So they are on either side of the cloaca, ok. Will keep you posted.

Mary, you need to remove the dose from the post and send it in PM.

It's against GC rules, because someone may try and self treat if they read it and overdose or cause organ damage to their glider, or not give enough and it won't help. There are different strengths (mg/ml) it can be mixed at. It's one I wholeheartedly agree with for that reason. Since you've replied already, I found the pic, will post here:

Ok, sorry I didn't know, will do that right now!

It is hard to tell from the pic, but I think his looked a little lighter in color (and seeing it was on a different material--paper towel, it may look different.) I saw it on his cloaca, looked like pea soup. Btw, just checked his anal glands when I took him out to give his pain meds. They feel like a grain of rice. A good thing, (I think) he did pee on me (but when he peed, he began that crabby noise). But at least I have now seen him 'go'. I held him and massaged a little down there and he went more (but made that noise while he did), so is it from the sound most likely a UTI? On a good note, he wants to be near Roo today (last night he did NOT). He was resting comfortably when I went to get him (he drank three syringes of juice, off to go get pedialyte right now). He does not show signs of dehydration (skin goes back down) but he was very thirsty. After he went potty, he was licking back there (but wasn't anywhere near as bad as last night!)

Should I be concerned I have not seen him poop? I don't want to have that added into the mix! The vet (not the one from yesterday, the other one) suggested I mix a little metimucil (sp?) in with some baby food to see if it will help him go. What do you think? Course, with no food for two days, should I expect him to be pooping today?

It wasn't the best of pics. UTI is likely, but a UTI also won't produce that kind of discharge-the anal glands will. If he's got a UTI that is also affecting those (We believe Binx's got abscessed so bad because of an untreated UTI-Chronos was facing the same surgery), the fact they're still tiny is EXCELLENT. That means they should heal. DON'T let them short you on antibiotics-at least 14 days. Less just isn't effective. If he's on you, let his cagemate stay with him. As long as he hasn't done any damage to himself, it shouldn't be a problem-you just need to make sure HE doesn't damage himself. The fact that it isn't as bad as yesterday is very encouraging. It should continue improving. If it doesn't, a meds change is needed.

If he's not eating, not pooping isnt' all that surprising, but still not good. You can put a little veggie oil down him to help (I'll send PM) keep things lubricated in there. Once he starts getting food in him, the rest should follow. That he's peeing means SOMEthing is going through. Since he's not dehydrated, lack of appetite is probably the issue. Plus if he's had any small ones, don't be surprised if he ate them-gliders WILL do that in an attempt to help balance the gut bacteria (a nature thing). Do keep an eye out for poops tho. Or if he's chewing on something and you didn't give him anything.

I will be bringing him in tomorrow morning (when this darn snow stops). Also, last night, Roo, his cage mate suddenly was trying to incessently lick her back end (although she never crabbed or was straining to go potty, this was when she was up in her house. She was rolling around trying to get to it, but being very chunky, she sort of has a built in ecollar. I have not seen her do this since then, but could he have infected her? Should I be treating both????

Jen, I so appreciate this!! He looks better today (he just looked 'off' yesterday). He is less crabby and I think that in itself is a good thing! I will try the veggie oil (will corn oil be ok?) I am running out to pick stuff up, anything else I need to get besides pedialyte and baby food??

Corn will be okay, it is a vegetable, albeit a little higher in fats, but this is temporary. Sent you the info my vet gave me in PM. Just make sure he stays hydrated, and keep him with you or in a collar until the noise stops.

It's possible she has what he does, if she's doing it also. It's not common for UTIs to transmit, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Treating her, also, as a precaution won't hurt.

I have to work tonight, and have been going on 3-4 hours sleep for days. I'll keep my phone near, but probably will sleep thru it if it rings at this point, and I really need some sleep. If there's an emergency, you can also have my vet consult with yours by phone, then yours with you by phone:

Dr. Laurel Harris
435-485-4736

Just have your vet tell her he's a potential SM and making the noise.

Just got back (boy the roads are very trecherous!) He is fine, sleeping with Roo still. I will watch him and may give him the meds a little sooner than 8 hours (I did last night). When hubby gets home, we will try the collar again (it isn't possible with just me and I am stressing him way to much trying). At least he CAN sleep, so I am hoping that means the meds are working! Another long night. Of course, I just called the vets, phones were off (they are not a 24 hour hospital), but I will call them and go down first thing in the morning. I so appreciate all the help and support! Having never faced this, it is so scary!! And again, I have to say Petey has been one tolerant little guy! If this had even been 6 months ago, he may not have been so cooperative! He has come so far and I am so proud of my little man!

Mary, between 1 and 4 am (I think that's 3 and 6 your time?) things are normally pretty quiet at work, and I can help if needed. I will TRY and get online, but we are very full, and usually I don't make it. I worked from 11 pm to 8:58 am last night. Now I need to get some sleep-if you need something and I don't hear the phone, my vet can't give you dosages and stuff, but she might be able to help in other ways that doesn't violate the law here, if needed.

Thanks Jen. I am hoping with all of my soul that the more antibiotics, the better he will be. That isn't to say we are out of the woods, but at least maybe starting to see a little clearing! Get some rest, please!

Mary, forgive my temporary absence of thinking....

There's a product available at the drug stores called Secure-Flex Wrap...it is the BEST thing since sliced bread for restraining a glider when applied in a "creative" fashion. It sticks to itself, not to fur or wounds. When wrapped over a shoulder/under an arm & covered with MASKING TAPE, it can be a GREAT restraint for a "fluffy" glider. I'm using it right now to keep Minka from re-opening her wound. Ask your hubby if he can pick some up on his way home from work & try THAT.

I'll watch the board on/off tonight, let me know if it works. Thinking about ya...

vet wrap....oh, I think I have some of that, have to go check! How would I wrap it to keep him from getting back there, though??? Thank you!

Mary, has your vet checked Petey for Giardia? It CAN cause a green discharge. I only skimmed through this time so forgive me if this was already addressed.

Has Petey eaten yet?

There is a baby food called Country Breakfast that is high in protein and I use (vet told me to) when I am having any illness issues. Gliders love it and it has lots of good things in it.

I'm sure you've tried all the fruits, veggies and yogurts already..how about mealies? Home cooking? Something that will get his nose sniffing!

We are praying for Petey and he's been in my thoughts constantly!

Here's how you'd wrap him up:

Start around his neck, one round; then go over the shoulder/under the arm; check his nose for pinkness (if it turns blue, it's too tight...still pink, it's all right); once around under both front arms, then back over the OTHER shoulder. Now the fun part is adding the MASKING TAPE: once under the front arms, once around the shoulders. The ends need to be near his spine, where he can't scratch them loose.

Let him loose to see if he can bend down to his tail base. He probably won't be able to walk well or hold his food, but he ALSO won't be able to lick his cloaca area. That'll (hopefullly) get him through the night til you can get to the vet.

Let me see if I can upload a pic of Minka's "truss" to keep her from licking her shoulders...I'm at a friend's house & need to see what I can do to upload it to PhotoBucket. Back in a few minutes...

Okay, here are 2 pictures from my Photobucket album using the Secure-Flex Wrap and masking tape:

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z164/Minkasmom/?action=view&current=PICT2171.jpg

Just go to the next picture after this one & you'll see a second view. These pics were taken BEFORE I had to go around her arms as well, but that was before she started tearing her shoulder wound open on a daily basis. Once you get the bandage on so he can't get to his cloacal area, DON'T TAKE IT OFF!

hoping this will help...

He will not eat anything I have offered. From the pinch test, he isn't dehydrated (I have been syringe feeding him juice and than switched to pedialyte, which of course, he didn't want! But he did like the juice. We will be going in tomorrow and I am having them do an ultrasound, as I am wondering if this is a UTI or something else. He seems to be straining to POOP, although he does crab/hiss when he does pee, so maybe several things going on. I did see him poop a little tonight, so at least SOMETHING came out (he peed as well). But food is NOT happening. I just gave him a little veggie oil, to try to get the potty thing moving (and a little softer for him). This is SO HARD.....we are all tired and crabby! I pray whatever it is, they can find out, fix it and get my boy back to me. He is miserable right now and so am I.

Thanks. He is passed out again, so I will watch him and when he wakes try this (he needs to rest, he is exhausted!!) Even Roo is looking so tired, poor thing. This is upsetting her, too. I just want my boy back!

Five more attempts to get a collar on him (with hubby) and we just can't seem to do it right (it is either too tight or too loose.) I have him in my lap, the crabbing is pretty much nonstop now (worse instead of better). He will not eat and has stopped taking fluids voluntarily (now forcing them down to try to keep him hydrated). I gave him his next dose of pain meds, last dose didn't seem to do much. I just wish tomorrow was here already. He needs a collar, he needs to get an ultrasound...they need to find out what is happening to him. I can't believe how horrible this is! I wish I lived closer to someone that had experience with this.

I always thought if I needed to I could get a collar on....and I can't. If you have healthy gliders, practice putting one on NOW. I just pray he does not go after himself.

(I couldn't find the vet wrap, either! I know I have it, but I can't find it!!)

I am by no means a vet, but I remember from working at a vet for an internship, if a critter is not eating and not pooping, it could mean some kind of obstruction in the GI tract?

Did the mineral oil or canned pumpkin or anything help loosen him up at all?

Hopefully if it is an obstruction it might show up on ultrasound? I guess they might be able to run a barium series on a glider and then run x-rays, although I have never seen them use that on an animal that tiny.

Wishing you the best Be careful in all that snow