Your welcome Cora!!! I was glad to help you. Mary checked him out and said it did not look so bad. She got them fixed in the cage before I left so they will be spoiled while they are there. It will go well just wait and see.

Here are the pics we took yesterday:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0805.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0804.jpg

Here is what half a 50 ft tree looked like on our house!!!!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0810.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0809.jpg

Talked with Mary earlier today. Spencer went to his vet appt today. Mary Has been taking the collar off some every day and nothing. The vet took the collar off today and looked him over and such and couldnt find anything wrong. Mary had a few other gliders at the vet being seen and was there about 3 hours with the collar off and he did not go after himself. Mary and Charlie got home and started in the house and heard him in the pouch.......................got him out and sure enough he was going after himself "down there".
She looked him over and he did not do much damage................bout like he did last sunday here if that. Spencer is probably a self mutilator period and will have to remain in an ecollar for the rest of his life. Maybe Tracy will be able to bring them back to me the weekend of the 19th. He and his cagemate, Sugar will live here with me now that I know whats what. I got some supplies to try to make satellite collars with snaps with softer plastic..............wish me luck!!!!

Its Ok really we can do this. He and I and Sugar have a VERY strong bond so they would be happier with me....................not that they dont love Mary but well you know.....................

OK Spencer is visibly having some discomfort..............restless, grumpy with Sugar,not sleeping with her, wanting to go after his chlocha which is kind of pooching out according to Marys call to me earlier. Mary is trying to figure out exactly what is wrong. She has given him the Metacam. Why did I have him 6 months before he went after his penis? Sexual Maturity? He was approx 8 months old in Jan when he went after himself. Got him nuetered, 3 weeks baytril and flagyl and ecollar for 30 days. Put him and sugar together, took off the collar then he went after his penis again beyond repair and that is when I took him to Mary the first time and most of his penis almost to the Y had to be amputated cause it was necrotic within 5 to 10 minutes of attacking himself. Mary had him for 4 weeks. The first 2 weeks he had the collar on, the 2nd 2 weeks he did not. Then I went and got him. For 2 wonderful weeks he was fine then all of a sudden he was going after his privates again???? Took him back to Mary in an ecollar last Sunday and the rest of the story is within this thread. Mary is calling the vet in the morning but remember the vet could find anything wrong on friday.

No ideas on what may be happening??? anyone?????

Yall keep all crossables crossed as Spencer goes back to the vet today to see if there is something physically wrong. Thanks so much to those of you that answered my PMs indulging me and brainstorming for my Spencer. This community is the best!!

Talked with Mary yesterday.....................have been processing the info before I posted. Spencer was put on Nuerontin yesterday which is prescribed to people for Nueropathy. Spencer may have a damaged nerve "down there" somewhere so the medication is worth a try. He will remain under Mary and her vets care. If this doesnt work then I am told the vet will try something else. I just hope for Spencers sake he gets relief from whatever is ailing him.

Mary has made him another type of satellite collar cause the one with the snaps weighs about 14 grams which means he has been carrying around 10 percent of his body weight around his neck. The one she has rigged up is approx. 4 grams.

Thanks for the prayers, well wishes and checking this thread to check on my boy!!!

Oh, this little guy deserves a break, you both do! Praying very hard this will work and he can come back home to his mom! This has got to be so terribly hard on you. Thank God for Mary, what an angel she is!! Loads of prayers and good thoughts going out. Keep us posted.

I know he does Mary. This is hard on all 3 of us (Spencer, Sugar and Myself)....................Harder than some will ever know cause they are so bonded to me I would not not be afraid to take them outside on me.....................They would stay ON ME they are just that bonded and then some. I love them both Sooooooooooooooooo much. Yes, Thank God for Mary ..................I would hate to think how this situation would have turned out if it were not for her!!!

Well, you have been fighting so hard for him (and with him), as has he, to get himself better. I hope and pray this will be the thing that does it! You all have some serious catching up to do (I think the mealies will flow then!! lol) Keeping everything crossed!

If you ever take him off of the Neurontin, just remember to take it down as gradually as possible. It can have some nasty side effects in humans, don't know what would happen with such a little one. I hope this works for him, you have all been through so much. Sending lots of prayers his way.

Cora, i definately agree with Gretchen on that. i'm on Neurontin myself [[as well as methadone]] and i've gone off both, accidently b/c of a mistake with my doctors and it was not a pretty site. i was cold all the time, or cold one minute and hot next, i couldn't get comfortable in my bed and i could not sleep at all, my house was on 80degrees roastin my poor parents out, i could not stop shaking at all and i wasn't really hungry all the time, i felt like i was just sick but it was withdrawal. i was not a happy person when i went to the ER and finally found out what was wrong with me. so yes, if you do take him off, check with the vet first....and do it gradually

i hope your little man gets better. or as much as he can get better. to you and yours

Thanks so much everybody!! Mary says Spencer is responding well to the new medication and spending time sleeping with his cagemate, playing more so he must be more comfortable at this time. Mary has been instructed by the vet to remove his collar Wednesday and watching him to see if he attacks himself. He will be there at least 8 more weeks longer if this med does not work. Sugar just loves Spencer so much and she does not have me so it is very important Spencer stays comfortable so that she does not stress even worse.

As most of you know my little Spencer was recently placed on the generic form of neurontin for a possible "angry nerve" as Mary calls it. Could nerve damage/angry nerve be a cause of some self mutilators???? Could Neurontin help other gliders???? Please check with your vets for Mary for their opinion on the matter. Thank You for your time for the good of the glider!!!!

A bit but I can tell you a couple things about nerve pain and neurontin (gabapentin is the generic).
I realize I'm not a sugar glider, but I do have personal experience with this drug.
First of all, it does at least decrease some nerve pain, and may make some go away depending on how bad it is in the first place. I imagine that if the suggies are SMing because of nerve pain, it would do the trick to make them more comfortable. I know that when my nerves are acting up and they hurt I have a tendency to push or smack my hand or arm where the pain is. It never makes it go away, but it is sort of an involuntary reaction to the pain, which may be what they are doing when they SM (Maybe I'm more like a suggie than I thoguht...)
Second, the side effects of that drug are a little weird, so if a glider was taking it, I wouldn't expect them to act normal. Most of the time I was on it I had very vivid dreams that I had a hard time waking up from, and when I was awake I would have to ask people if I really was awake (which didn't make my co-workers or boss feel very comfortable about me working in the warehouse driving the forklift). I would just keep in mind that giving a little critter a drug that has that effect on a human might make them a little off, or overly sleepy.
Also, when I came off it (stopped taking it due to the side-effects), I had one of the worst migraines imaginable, and I was screaming in pain for hours before I fell asleep and slept for 7-8 hours and still work up with a milder, but still present, headache. I wouldn't miss a dose if I was giving it to a critter.

Thank you for your input Shana!!

Mary said Spencer did not have such a good day today. He started crabbing and stuff earlier. she waited a little while and listened and he did it again and tring to get at himself (has ecollar on). Mary gave him the torb. Something is bothering him but what??? He hates the neurontin............mary says he shakes his head so quickly a lot of it gravitates out.........lol

The vet told her to put karo syrup in it but he did not like that either. so now she has another question:

What other routine meds can be given for the obvious discomfort he is having??? Could it be nerve damage down there??? Or something "pulling" From the diff surgeries he has had either the pom off removal or penis amputation.
He has had quite a bit of torb since Jan when all this started. I just want Spencer to have some kind of quality of life but most of all I want him comfortable and so does Mary.

Thank you all so much for helping, praying, thinking good thoughts and keeping your fingers crossed for my boy. Mary thank you for your never tiring care for Spencer. He loves you too........................Sugar not so much!!!

Please, please dont for get to talk with your vets. I have talked with a few of you already. 1 vet did not beleive an "angry nerve" could be possible in gliders nor the pain from scar tissue or a "pulling " sensation from the 2 surgeries Spencer has had that has him back to hurting therefore attempting self mutilation. I say this because I talk with Mary daily and Mary sees the same thing I did...................that boy will go awhile before he starts................then its like some type of pain or discomfort comes over him and he mutilates his privates.
He is not able to tell us what is wrong. Neither Mary nor I beleive he is just a mutilator but that something is causing this.......................we want some more vet opinions here. currently he is getting the generic of nuerontin every 12 hours chicken flavored of course(Mary had it done special for him). However every 2 or 3 days he starts getting restless and making that low crab noise towards his privates........................he has an ecollar on still...............she gives him torb at that point and then he is fine til the next time.
I have talked with people who have had some surgeries and do suffer nerve pain related to those surgeries.......................do gliders not have nerve endings everywhere like humans??
Just please ask and get back to Mary or myself even if its a PM or phone call.

I think Mary takes Spencer back to the vet on friday. Again thanks for your time!

Here is someone elses vets opinion................permission was given for me to post it:

If there's enough scar tissue it can feel tight. It can itch, or even be painful when the animal moves and the tissue stretches. Much like the surgical glue some gliders just can't seem to tolerate. Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done, unless another procedure can reduce the amount of scar tissue-of course that risks making things worse, also. Some people develop little scar tissue from a surgery, some quite a bit, depending on the body's response-and it differs for every individual. It may be that he'll need to continue on periodic meds for his lifetime to keep him from going after it. It's also possible there is nerve damage. Damaged nerves can give off some very strange sensations-and a sensitive glider just can't ignore it. Yes, animals have nerve endings everywhere just like we do. In some cases, theirs are even more sensitive than ours-their survival depends on it in the wild, their senses and perceptions much more acute than ours are. It's possible with time and 'therapy', like soaking the site, gentle stretching/massage of the tissue, in time it won't bother him so much. There is a reason for "once an SM, always an SM", as any bothersome sensation will send the glider after an injury or infection, while another with the same situation won't pay any mind...just like people, gliders have differing tolerances to pain or annoyances. It's likely SMs have a lower than average tolerance (or more sensitive). It was once thought (and some vets still think) that animals 'don't feel pain like we do'..which is not true. They are better at hiding it (again going to survival instinct), but that doesnt' mean it's not there, or not an issue.

Well after the neurontin therapy has been in Spencers system for awhile the ecollar was to come off today. Mary took it off and he was OK for awhile but he still ended up going after himself so she gave him a low dose of torb and back in the ecollar went!
His vet appointment is scheduled for Monday not Friday as I originally thought. I asked Mary to talk with the vet about any meds that will keep him as comfy as possible cause he cant tell me when he is in pain I just have to go by his body language......................you see I plan to bring Spencer and Sugar home next month and manage him here. They are so bonded to me................especially Sugar and this seperation is so very hard on all 3 of us.
I am going to start calling vets all over to see if I can find someone who is willing to learn and consult with other vets (if Dr. Reese is not interested but I will call him first in the morning).

Oh My Word I cant beleive I have not updated this!! Well Spencer went back to the vet yesterday. He finally went after himself in front of the vet. He put some type of cream on it and he stopped. Mary has been instructed to give him Neurontin every 8-9 hours. He will be on this medication long term. He will remain on Torb as needed as well as that cream (must be some kind of topical anagelsic).
He will be in an ecollar when he can not be closely supervised.
The best part:
He and Sugar are coming home next week!!! YAY!!!!

Well Spencer and Sugar returned home earlier this week. He remains in an ecollar. He is on gabrapentin(Sp?) twice a day. He gets torb when he needs it. The first night he kept trying to get to himself and was given torb about 11pm and finally got comfortable around 4:30am. The second night he became uncomfortable and trying to get at himself around 1am again was given torb and settled down around 3:30am. The 3rd night(last night) he was perfect.........played and was more himself. I did have to give him pepto bismal yesterday afternoon for gas,and soft stools(didnt know gliders could pass gas). I think they are glad to be home!!

His ecollar is sattellite type with a staple instead of snaps so its lighter(4 or 5 grams). The soft plastic its made of has to be wide enough so he cant act like a contortionist and get to himself...............which he will try if he is uncomfortable................he just seems to get a different look in his eye when he is not comfortable and trys to get at himself........does that make sense?? Maybe he had a bad first 2 nights because of the change of humidity/temps here not as humid and hot as down south..........just a theory especially if he has an angry nerve as the vet has said. I dont know what hes got but its something!! Sugar put on another 40 plus grams at the glider tree and Spencer put on some grams as well. He can eat and drink out of shallow dishes with the type of collar he has. He still has fur around his neck even after having this type of ecollar on every day for 1 month or so. He still does not like the collar and trys to get it off all the time. Its really funny when he gets Sugar to help him try to pull it off. He and her stay on me most of the day and I stay up with him at night(or most of it)!! Here is some pics of them.................I will write more later I dont type fast and I have to get back in the glider room.

These pics have been taken over the past 3 days:
Spencer sleeping .....You can barely see his collar

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1064.jpg

I am awake now:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1067.jpg

Took ecollar off to clean him up last night:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1070.jpg

Let him eat mealies with his hands:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1071.jpg

big boy:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1096.jpg

Sugar:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1116.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1109.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1117.jpg

Their cage:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1097.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1098.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1099.jpg