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Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584377
07/07/08 12:50 PM
07/07/08 12:50 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
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The only Glider that has been PROVEN to delay a embryo from developing is the FeaterTail Glider

I found that info in "GLIDERS OF AUSTRALIA - A Natural history".

Last edited by TracieB; 07/07/08 03:11 PM. Reason: Rule #2 - Tracie
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Usha77] #584381
07/07/08 12:53 PM
07/07/08 12:53 PM

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macwood6
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I was just merely stating that to challenge a known medical fact like she did will be met with many people proving evidence.
There are way to many people on this board with many years of experience.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Usha77] #584384
07/07/08 12:55 PM
07/07/08 12:55 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
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I would also lke to add im a member of the Marsupial Society and I own both sugar gliders and squirrel gliders. No where in the link of either the oppossum or marsupial society does it say sugar gliders can do this.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584385
07/07/08 12:56 PM
07/07/08 12:56 PM

M
macwood6
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macwood6
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Why dont you share all you knowledge with us then.
Start your own thread and educate us all. I am sure that many of our members would love to learn if you have so much to teach.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584388
07/07/08 12:57 PM
07/07/08 12:57 PM

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rachael
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rachael
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I have provided scientific research to back up my statement!
Where as all the link provided by other members have talked about Macropods wich yes can delay, and the other 2 link said NOTHING about delay of sugar gliders

Last edited by rachael; 07/07/08 01:03 PM.
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584390
07/07/08 12:57 PM
07/07/08 12:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,470
Tucson, AZ
hipbchik Offline
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My apologies for offending anyone...


peace~carolyn



"Your mind is the birthplace of ingenuity and then you need your heart as the Mediator..." ~Lil C
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584391
07/07/08 12:59 PM
07/07/08 12:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
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Does anything besides that one History say that a sugar glider cannot do this? Because ommission is not proof that it doesn't happen.

Last edited by Usha77; 07/07/08 01:00 PM.

Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584393
07/07/08 01:01 PM
07/07/08 01:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
glidergrl1513 Offline
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Originally Posted By: rachael
I have provided scientific research to back up my statement!


Where? That little blurb? Which, by the way, is against the rules on GC. You may not quote other sites.


Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: glidergrl1513] #584398
07/07/08 01:05 PM
07/07/08 01:05 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
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Its not from another site
Its a book written by David Lyndenmayer.
If you want to know more about his vast knowledge I suggest you do some of your own research

Last edited by rachael; 07/07/08 01:27 PM.
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: glidergrl1513] #584400
07/07/08 01:08 PM
07/07/08 01:08 PM

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macwood6
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macwood6
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M



edited

Last edited by LSardou; 07/07/08 09:59 PM. Reason: removed comment
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584402
07/07/08 01:09 PM
07/07/08 01:09 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
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R



well im off to bed, I would very much like to pick this up in the morning. I hope this thread stays open, it may just teach some ppl a thing or two.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584403
07/07/08 01:10 PM
07/07/08 01:10 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
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gliderma Offline
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Posts: 5,402
Michigan
Many people have opinions and are entitled to them, but just because this author believes it can not happen, doesn't mean another will believe it can. Obviously, it can and has occured. I know in dogs they can get pregnant by 2 different males, because of the way they are physically made, so, who are we to question? Miracles are all around us, just look at your children!


Lynn Martel
616-272-4374
989-400-5686
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: gliderma] #584405
07/07/08 01:12 PM
07/07/08 01:12 PM

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macwood6
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macwood6
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M



Do you mean David Lindenmayer?
Correct spelling would make research easier.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584409
07/07/08 01:17 PM
07/07/08 01:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
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I guess what I'm interested in learning most is how this has happened when it is "impossible"? What are the theories of what is actually going on when this happens? The neuter didn't take? Why don't they keep breeding and having babies then? I'm just confused. How can someone say it is not possible when it does happen? Maybe it's evolution. Or maybe that Professor Lindenmayer has just never observed it happen? If it is so rare (as we know it to be) then doesn't it make sense that he's never witnessed it? And just because he never witnessed it doesn't mean it can't physically and medically occur...


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Usha77] #584416
07/07/08 01:26 PM
07/07/08 01:26 PM

M
macwood6
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macwood6
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M



Well he has written many books. I am interested to know if there is a specific one she is referring to. Many of the possum volumes are dated several years ago.
Anyone with some glider knowledge will tell you that we are still learning about them each day.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Usha77] #584417
07/07/08 01:26 PM
07/07/08 01:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,969
Syracuse, NY
Kiiru Offline
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Posts: 2,969
Syracuse, NY
If you are a member of the Marsupial Society and claim to know everything there is to know about sugs, then please explain why their site says to use a sock, old blanket, old sheets, etc. as a pouch in hand rearing a joey? And why is it ok to use a small safety pin to close it? Or, why it's ok to put a ring of wire around the opening to keep it open. Even if they are babies and can't move around much, they can still get hurt and caught up on stuff like this.


-Nicole
2 doves,1 dog,and 5 gliders...
* Yin and Yang
* Razzle, Tictac, and Kitkat - "The trio"
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Usha77] #584418
07/07/08 01:27 PM
07/07/08 01:27 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
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R



I have spelt his name correctly thankyou

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584421
07/07/08 01:29 PM
07/07/08 01:29 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
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R



I never said I know everything there is to know

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Usha77] #584423
07/07/08 01:33 PM
07/07/08 01:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
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Greeley, CO
According to this website,
http://msc.bhsu.edu/biology/bsmith/mammlec7.html

there are different reproductive variations. These are all different:

Delayed fertilization
Delayed development
Delayed implantation
Embryonic diapause


I believe, from what I have read, that what occurs in Sugar Gliders is actually Delayed implantaion, not Embryonic Diapause. Obviously, I could be wrong. laugh


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584425
07/07/08 01:36 PM
07/07/08 01:36 PM

M
Mio
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Mio
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M



I had my boy neutered about a month ago, and now the girl has bumps, so the timing on mine is just about right... I've never had this happen. But I wouldn't say it couldn't happen, simply because God is amazing, and he can create creatures that can do things we would never dream of. That's just how I look at it. agree

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584428
07/07/08 01:37 PM
07/07/08 01:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
glidergrl1513 Offline
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Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
Though you didn't "guess" this still applies. David Lindenmayer has guessed that is is "impossible" yet it happened. Not once, but 6 times in this thread alone. I'm trying to find a quote I once heard that pretty much sums it up. Something to the effect of "those who proclaim a phenomenon to be impossible is almost certainly wrong; those who say a phenomenon is possible is correct."

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: pappy1264] #584439
07/07/08 01:47 PM
07/07/08 01:47 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
Unregistered
R



It is possible to have the male produce sperm for a month after neuturing but not fourteen months, I would say the father is actually the previous joey Wyatt. Wich means mother and son would have bred not mother and father

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584443
07/07/08 01:52 PM
07/07/08 01:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,969
Syracuse, NY
Kiiru Offline
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Kiiru  Offline
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Posts: 2,969
Syracuse, NY
Too bad Wyatt hadn't reached sexual maturity yet...


-Nicole
2 doves,1 dog,and 5 gliders...
* Yin and Yang
* Razzle, Tictac, and Kitkat - "The trio"
Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Kiiru] #584448
07/07/08 01:55 PM
07/07/08 01:55 PM

M
macwood6
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macwood6
Unregistered
M



For those looking to research the author the spelling is David Lindenmayer.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Kiiru] #584450
07/07/08 01:56 PM
07/07/08 01:56 PM

R
rachael
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rachael
Unregistered
R



There are many many instances of gliders producing at a very young. All you need to do is look on glider forumsto see this.

Altho I have NEVER heard of gliders breeding so young in Australia, but then again ours are not inbred over and over etc

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Kiiru] #584451
07/07/08 01:57 PM
07/07/08 01:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
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Usha77  Offline
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Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Embryonic diapause is when an embryo has been fertilized and implanted and begins to develop, but then is halted part-way through development.

Whereas, Delayed Implantation is when an embryo has been fertilized, but is not implanted right away and is delayed.


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584452
07/07/08 02:00 PM
07/07/08 02:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
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Posts: 4,008
Greeley, CO
Originally Posted By: rachael
There are many many instances of gliders producing at a very young. All you need to do is look on glider forumsto see this.

Altho I have NEVER heard of gliders breeding so young in Australia, but then again ours are not inbred over and over etc


They're not? I am honestly not trying to be snippy, just very curious. I know inbreeding happens in the wild... dunno


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: Usha77] #584457
07/07/08 02:04 PM
07/07/08 02:04 PM

M
macwood6
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macwood6
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M



First of all you would have no way of knowing if gliders are in breeding in the wild unless you track every glider and that is not possible.
If gliders can breed at young ages then that would increase the chances of inbreeding in the wild.

I am still looking for which book you are referring to.

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584458
07/07/08 02:06 PM
07/07/08 02:06 PM

M
macwood6
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macwood6
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M



Also if you are quoting the forums as a source of breeding age then should the forums not be sufficient evidence evidence of breeding behaviors?

Re: I waited to say anything....... [Re: ] #584459
07/07/08 02:06 PM
07/07/08 02:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
I'm sure that in instance after instance of gliders being found to be pregnant after the male was neutered, it is possible that maybe one or two were because of faulty neuters? If that were the case ... as previously mentioned... that pair would CONTINUE to reproduce.

But to assume that many vets in the States have repeatedly mis-neutered gliders is rather arrogant.

As previously stated, we are continuing to learn about these animals. It is not at all inconceivable that someone writing with authority several years ago has since been proven to be wrong ... due to advances in veterinary medicine, as well as increased knowledge.

Last edited by LSardou; 07/07/08 10:00 PM. Reason: removed comment

Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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