I first heard of Sugar Gliders in around 2001 when I stumbled across them doing research on marsupials in general. I found a site about Squirrel Gliders that eventually led me (via multiple links) to Wikipedia’s article on Sugar Gliders. I did some research for about 2 months back then and had pretty much decided I’d love to be owned by a sugar glider myself… but would wait on final judgment until I was in a financial positon to actually own one and then do more research at that time.
Fast-forward to early 2007. I walked into a pet store in my local mall with my then-fiance, and we see this cage about 12” X 12” 12” on a bottom shelf on an end cap. I look into the cage and see nothing at first… and then, way in the back, I see this TINY little face peeking at me from around a fake rock. I realize it is a suggie! I ask the clerk about him and she tells me this story about how no one wants him and they get theirs from a local breeder but won’t be getting any more because they got this one from that breeder and it is deformed. She scoops him up (he is dead quiet) and she drops him in my hand. He couldn’t have been 4 inches long. He looked up at me with those big dark eyes and my heart absolutely melted… and then he wobbled a bit and fell over! He couldn’t seem to get back up very easily, and I watched in amazement as this little guy tried SO hard to walk… with one of his little feet and one of his little hands so badly deformed I don’t know HOW he managed to move at ALL. It broke my heart to leave him there, but I could not buy him or I would have on the spot, just to get him out of there! A week later I had saved up the money and went back but he was gone and the new clerk had no idea what I was talking about… nor did she know when they would have more suggies in stock.
I did a little more research and saved my cash diligently… and then came Memorial Day of 2008. My family and I were at the Blue Crab Festival in downtown Palatka, Florida, taking a break from the hospital room my mother was dying in. We got separated, and then I see my sister and she tells me "they have those squirrel things you like in a booth around the corner".
I got lucky in a way. My male did not come from a pet store, and he is still alive today... but he did come from the dreaded PPP... Scout is and has been since day one a healthy, happy guy... but I think he was OLDER than what they said he was when I got him. They claimed he was 8 weeks OOP and he started getting his "mature spots" only 2 weeks after I got him home! They never even told me ANYTHING about the scent glands or the maturation rate. They told me single gliders aren't lonely at all, can eat a pellet diet only, and the diet they sell costs $68 a year for a pair of gliders or every 2 years for 1 glider and said to give nothing else but a quarter apple a night per glider (sprinkled with their "Glide-A-Mins" every other nigh)t and a half slice of white bread with no crust per glider every other day. The only CAUTIONS they gave me were NO chocolate, NO grapes, NO dairy and NO corn... and their only bonding suggestions? Wear them under your shirt but in the pouch at least 8 hours a day and use blueberry yogurt on your fingers to get them to come to you without attacking!
I was also told that they would integrate AUTOMATICALLY with my other pets because they "don't smell like prey" so ALL other animals are uninterested in them all on their own... he even used a random PIT BULL to prove this with one of the 15 or so gliders he had in his pockets at the time! <shiver!> The guy said NEVER to put pouches or hammocks in the cages, as the glider would never bond to people of we did, and would just go into hiding and never come out.

Luckily, I had done a little advance research and have found many good sources of info since then, especially this one!!
(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets also told me that Gliders should NEVER eat meat or meal worms or anything like that, and their reasoning was, "If you don't feed them meat, they never get that 'ferret-y' smell", and that their only suggested treats were fresh fruit (only with smooth skins, never anything like strawberries) and Cheerios! He said his personal gliders loved Cheerios, Doritos, and that his favorite often stole bites of his Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches! They closed their comments by telling me that I should ONLY EVER get glider info from THEM because ALL OTHER sites on the web and pet stores were full of BAD INFORMATION and also told me that Gliders NEVER need vet care!
We were also told to NEVER use ANYTHING to clean the cage but THEIR products and they told us HORROR STORIES about gliders dying if you used ANYTHING else to clean the cage, which they suggested only be done TWICE A YEAR!
I still have some of the info they gave me and the CD they gave me... and the wheels they suggest, by the way, which they sell on their site at twice the price of a Wodent Wheel on any other site I have found... the wheels they claim are better than any other glider wheel on the market, that are supposedly ONLY made by (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, and all other wheel are DANGEROUS??? If you take their sticker off the back... IT IS A WODENT WHEEL SENIOR!!
The cages (there were two, one with males in it and one with females in it), were about 18" X 18" X 22", had upwards of 40to 50 gliders in EACH ONE... NO toys, just a few scraps of cloth and empty plastic cups to hide in. This guy said he had 15 PERSONAL GLIDERS of his own and that he and his wife and kids went EVERYWHERE with gliders in their pockets DAILY. The also told me NOTHING about keeping the space they were kept in at a certain temperature... they sold me a starter kit with a heat rock in it and said that it was NECESSARY for gliders and that I should throw a shirt of mine on it but partially hanging off of it so the glider they sold me could get as close or as far from the heat as he wanted to regulate his own temperature. He also said they are not capable of biting hard enough to break the skin… just a nibble to pinch alittle so not to be afraid of them.

I didn't believe HALF of what they told me, because I did my research for several months in advance, but since seeing the info here and on Glider University's site, I will NEVER get another glider, info, or product from them EVER again!! The guy who actually sold me my male (Scout) is actually in a video on their site, if anyone wants to know which one, if you know the site at all, you go to the site and click on "got questions about buying a sugar glider" and scroll down to the video of the heavy set guy in a park who puts his glider on the ground and walks away to illustrate what supposedly happens when you let them go in a public place... this is actually what he tells people! That these brand new joeys will run right back to you automatically if they ever escape or get dropped! HE claims it is HIM and 2 other guys (including Virgil Klunder) that are the owners of (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and that they have 15 years experience, etc. and are located in Ft Myers. Further down the same page, after they talk about glider care costing $4 a day per glider, etc... there is a video that looks like it might have been recorded inside this 4 million dollar mansion I have heard mentioned in connection with (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. It shows a glider stuck on a long boom over a high balcony and then jumping to the same guy who personally sold Scout to me. They also promised a health certificate from a veterinarian, WHICH I NEVER RECEIVED.

I only bought from them because I had seen no bad reviews on them at the time when I went to the booth (their first appearance here in our small county). I can say that since they were here last May, there are ALWAYS gliders in the classifieds of our local paper because NO ONE got warned about what glider care is REALLY like and most folks bought on a whim. IT IS SUCH A SHAME. I tried asking them about additional gliders before I found out how bad they were, and was told they NEVER ship and DO NOT ALLOW people to come to their location… you just have to wait until they show up in your area. This was what prompted me to find additional websites in the first place.

In any case, I became VERY attached to Scout, and I eventually got him a playmate. Gracie came from a rescue organization that used to be in Howie In The Hills, Florida and the whole outfit recently moved to Pennsylvannia. They said she was about 10 months, but I am really not sure, as she seems older than that to me. She is still pretty shy but is getting better all the time! I expected to see joeys by now, honestly, but even though Scout is awfully interested, if there have been any, I have not seen them and they have not survived. I am unsure if this is because of her age, or because they have not actually mated, or if it is because their diet was so out of whack that they have cannibalized them for the protein as I have read in horror stories on the web. I am still hopeful, though… maybe someday.
I am now looking into acquiring new glider joeys from a reliable and better source (Thanks Paula!) and hope to have them and a newer, bigger cage set up within the next 3 to 4 weeks. I love my fuzzbutts, and hope that this information (and anything else I can offer) is helpful in stopping the glider mills... or at least the customers they might have otherwise duped!

I am new here too but from what I have read everyone here knows of them very well. It still amazes me that they can do this and get away with it. You have come to the right place for all your Glider info. The people on this board are absolutly amazing and will do whatever they can to help and educate the public about Glider care.

Welcome!

That's so sad... I'm the type of person that does my research before buying anything... But I'm so glad they didn't find me before I found this board...

I am SO glad I found this site, you CANNOT imagine... just picture what it would be like to face those people if you had a LITTLE glider info, but had NEVER seen this site! It makes me want to go to every fair and festival in the country and hand out fliers telling people to look at this site before they look at that booth!

I got my little boy from them to!!! He is in good heath and hasent had anything wrong with him so far and i hope it sticks!!!
I got my little guy kinda the spur or the moment thing and never really had any time to research before hand! And i know i know dont get mad i know i should have dont that first but its to late now!
But now that i am fully researched im getting my second little baby to let him have company.
But defiantly not from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets since i have been on here i have learned A LOT about them!

The only good thing I can say about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets (after doing some research)is I saw the babies and fell in love! That got me started doing research on my own and learning all I could about these Awesome little Stinkers! My research led me to a great licensed breeder here in town. I wouldn't trade my girls for the world!

I was duped recently in almost the exact same way, as have a lot of others obviously. I have yet to actually get my glider from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets (few more weeks) and am quite nervous to find out what state the little girl is in. For now im thinking of it as a really expensive rescue/adoption haha.

As someone else said the good side is i would have never learned about these critters if it wasn't for (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets coming to my mall. Despite being lied and scammed im so excited for my little girl to get here it's crazy. I fell in love the first second i saw one and still can't believe such a fascinating animal exists ..

I am sure it has been thought of and tried but anyone complained to the Better Business Bereau? Keep racking up the complaints might help.

Well it seems they are not part of it. Oh well good intentions though.

i did put a complaint in and a few others have as well. i hope others have better luck than i have. my little guy seems so much better now and i am so glad he is mine!

For those of you in Florida
http://myfloridalegal.com/

File a complaint. If everyone in every state filed a complaint with your local Govt. it might help in the long run.

Found the site... logging complaint... suggest other in FL do the same

Mine came from there too....I got a special bonus...Giardia!

where in Florida did (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets suck you into their black hole of deception, BindiAndScrubbie ?

LabNGliderMom,

I just want you to know that I got ALL of my gliders from Paula, and I love them very much!! Buggs and Bunny were my first and have been absolutely wonderful from day one. I also picked up more gliders from Paula just a few days later, because I was so impressed with how well socialized the first two were, and I knew she had some gliders that needed a new home. Paula is a wonderful lady and is so helpful!! She answers all of my questions, and even though I pester her while she's on vacation, I'm sure she doesn't mind right Paula?

Anywho, I'm SO GLAD that you have Scout, even though you got him from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. All this means is that Scout is in a much better place than he was!! And now he's has a good-lookin' girlfriend to keep him company! You're a wonderful person for taking such great care of him!! I hope you get your other gliders soon and post lots of pics

Thanks! Scout and Gracie are wonderful little rascals, and I am glad to have them, too, no matter where they originated. I spoke to Paula this evening (she took the time to call me while on vacation!) and she will be sending me pics of 3 girls she has around the 20th. I hope to have 2 of them here at home by the beginning of February, and I will post LOTS of pics, I promise!!

Did they give you a password to the 'Family Corner' on their site?

Also, how do you steal a video from Youtube? (Rhetorical question.) Because I KNOW that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets doesn't go to Japan! (Momonga is a popular suggie on Youtube-he's the first video under the "...and here are some MORE fun home-video clips!" in the "Got Questions?" page. It's close to the top....

Yes, I have a password to "family corner", not that I recall there being much there... let me see if I can still access it...

If you could PM it to me or just post it on here, I would be very grateful.

I wonder if the videos on there could be labeled as animal cruelty and used for the mill breeder Project.

I was interested in seeing the videos on the biting.

Sometimes people from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets register or snoop around message boards. If they register, they try to stand up for themselves.

At the West Palm Home and Gardens Show. Of course I instantly fell in love but they made them sound like they were as easy to care for as hamsters. And they told me EXACTLY 100% what they told you.

Also...under "To neuter or not to neuter - THAT is the question!" They talk about how they practice the tying string around the pom and cutting off blood flow therefore the pom dries up and falls off. I have never heard of such a thing but I am no vet. ON THAT NOTE....when I first got my boy, he was supposed to be at the 8 to 10 week stage...HE WAS NEUTERED. So I assume they neutered him in this whacked out fashion. You would think even if they did it the normal surgical way that he was too young at '8 to 10' weeks.

I ended up soon after bringing him home, emailing them to see if he was in fact neutered. They responded by saying yes, by Florida Law, they neuter all their boys. Oh and I also emailed them with concern for the diarrhea...they said to give him Kaopectade or Pepto and that he was just stressed.

Oh, Marissa-remember when I emailed them to see if I could get back into the "family circle"? They didn't respond.

They probably know that we're trying to get in. Thank you for trying, though.

Well how about we get someone they don't know to send them an email?

Here's what I wrote them just now:

"Hi, I was wondering if you are ever going to be coming to georgia?

Thanks,

Lizz"


Short and sweet, muahahahah!!!

Anyone that bought a joey from them can get in, we were all given passwords...I can help and it's simple. My name is Michelle and I am pretty new here and Thank God I went against what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets said, never use another website, that should have been our first clue. I'm so thankful for GC. Would be in the dark without it.

I bet you anything, they have somebody or more than one somebody spying on these boards just to see what is still being said against them. I wouldn't post EXACTLY what your going to send them on here...maybe a pm. Then again...I could be overly paranoid. I just know if I was a scammer and had a huge scammin' lowlife business and wanted to keep up my scam...I'd be searching these boards to see what people are saying about me.

I could get in for about six months, then I was denied access. When I emailed them about it, they ignored me. So watch for that.

Hmm Daive you have a point....I'll keep it hush hush from now on

Yeah, I think you are right... they DO keep tabs, why else would they have a section about "how these forums and message boards are bad and full of internet addicts who neglect their gliders and give false info"... I mean, come on!

Anyway, I can still get in as of now... but if they have anyone watching this forum, I am sure I won;t be able to for long. So if anyone wants specific info, PM me and I will see what I can access for as long as I can. Anything to help teh fuzzbutts in danger from these people!

Has anyone ever emailed PETA regarding this - or is that opening a can of worms. They are a crazy group and can infiltrate anything.

PETA does not advocate owning gliders.. but yes, they have been notified.

I don't advocate PETA in any way shape or form. Ever since I witnessED them euthanizing dogs with heart worms just because the treatment was "too expensive"...I've been colunteering for an animal welfare organization MUCH smaller than PETA and we successfuly treat heartworms every day...anywho, I doubt PETA will even care.


(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets will only be stopped if we can convince someone, namely the USDA, to seriously investigate them. I just don't understand why that's turning out to be so hard!!

Because the USDA can't be in all places at all times... these people have mills EVERYWHERE, and if the USDA can't hit them ALL simultaneously... how will they ever know the problem? Does the USDA even do spot inspections, or are they making appointments, giving the mills time to clean up for an inspection? And perhaps the USDA is using guidleines that aren't really appropriate for gliders and assumes these packed cages are okay or something. Who knows??

When you watch the video over to the right is the embeded code, just copy and paste, it's that easy. They probably have permission to use the video but that never stops anyone from using your vids. The owner can send a complaint to the Utube staff but it takes a while before they respond. Many of my vids are being used without my permission but they are in a reputable site so I don't worry about it.

I would never get PETA involved! They will eventually come after you, the Glider owners, as well.

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets has duplicate "home" sites. They have the one with the large, clean cages and the tame, well-fed gliders. That's the one the USDA inspects and passes.

Then they have the "warehouse." It is reported to be a trailer, or series of trailers, stacked full of 1'x1'x1' cages. With no windows. This is where the babies are bred, and pulled from their mothers at 4 weeks.

There are many many other practices of (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and the other mill breeders. Pocket knife neuters done on site, for example. Releasing gliders into the "wild" when they are sick or otherwise no longer useful. These are the tip of the iceberg here, guys.

There are MANY threads on here about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. Find the ones where the mill breeder representatives post their replies. Those are ... amusing?

And, GliderGuy is right. PETA is NOT a good organization for us to alert. They (violently) oppose animals being kept as pets, especially exotics. It is a matter of time before they would turn on us, the glider owners. If we invite them in, they'll have all they would need on us to use their terror tactics on our pets.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

If you have obtained a glider from Perfect Pocket Pets or any of the other mill breeders....

PLEASE contact The mill breeder Project.

*this* is how we will stop them! A complied and complete detail of all their tactics, complete with dates, times and *medical records*!

It is imperative that gliders purchased from the mills be taken to a vet RIGHT AWAY so we can have documentation of the abuses, the too young gliders, the giardia, the parasites, etc.

http://millbreederproject.suggies.net/

And BTW, my male is NOT neutered. That is something new they started about 3 months after I got him. I emailed them about it and they said they had changed their practices to keep "laypeople" from "over breeding"

HA, they're keeping people from OVER BREEDING? Holy cow...


I wish we could get someone on the inside, who can get into the warehouse and take pictures...you know, super crazy psycho PETA style...minus the PETA part...

That would help... the main problem is that they are so spread out... I knwo they say it is just the came three guys going all over the country with a few helpers to do this, but threre is NO WAY they can be this many places all at once!

I think we should all make giant posters, or rent bulletine boards in our local cities that say "DON'T BUY FROM Pocket Pets" or something like that...you know, freedom of speech and what not

sounds like a plan to me! I'm in! Where do I sign up???

Great idea!

I know here you can rent these boards and they put whatever text on them you want...I might advertise Glider central..who knows! LOL..i mean, when i stop being so broke and all...

Glider University is mostly full of garbage. It is a *very* biased site. It seems it's only reason for being is because of a personal vendetta that the people who started it had for other members of the glider community. They take every opportunity they can to bash and put down those people. Please be cautious reading there.

Your gliders are both rescues. There are many many reasons why rescued gliders should NEVER be bred. Please have Scout neutered ASAP so that he and Gracie won't have to have the burdens of breeding/joeys. Breeding rescues at all - even for your own personal pets - is VERY discouraged.

If I haven't said it already - welcome to GC, and thanks for bringing your story! Please make sure you tell it at The mill breeder site, also!

So even though their corporate office is in Florida, would their "warehouse" be in the corporate office???


I dont understand why the USDA does not investigate all their locations... I am sure they are aware that the large super clean cage with well fed gliders is not their only cage, right???

I mean if everyone here knows what they are doing and how they are doing it shouldnt the USDA???

I personally think if anyone is to be classified as a breeder they should do several investigations to make sure they approve all cages possible...

I have told it at the mill breeder Site and I have registered at SESG

There is some misinformation here so I hope this helps.


Liz wrote:


Liz, USDA can only do what the law allows them to do. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is smart enough to not break the laws. USDA is supposed to make yearly unanounced inspections, but if an inspection is low priority, they can postpone or skip when they are behind.

Alden wrote:



Alden, where did you hear that? As far as I know (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets are not breeders at all. They are registered with USDA as a dealer, not a breeder. That basically means that they sell gliders that other people breed.

When they have a show scheduled, they place an order with a broker for X number of gliders. The broker searches the mills for enough gliders to fill (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets's order. Since most mills don't give a darn about the health or the age of the gliders, that is why sometimes you get healthy ones and some times you don't. It just depends on which mills the broker uses, and which glider gets grabbed when the breeders stick their hand in the cage.

Liz wrote:


Again, there is no (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets breeding warehouse. These gliders are shipped directly (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets at the show.

ok so maybe this. My ex works for the CDC I wonder if he could light a fire under anyone at the USDA. I'll give him a call this evening after he is off work. He owes me one anyway.

That's news to me, Anita.

Was it a different breeder here that had the warehouse? Perhaps I'm just getting my Mills confused? This is the first time anyone has ever come here and said that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is not a breeder, that I'm aware of.

I purchased my Harley from a guy who had purchased him from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets so I am able to get onto their website as well. Let me know if you need me to do anything. Or you need access to the forum.


Tammy C

If anyone knows of a way it would help get rid of people like those at (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, please PM me and I will email you the scans of the paperwork I got from them when I got Scout. You won't BELIEVE their "warranty"!!

Alden, I've heard that one of the Texas breeders keep the gliders in tiny cages.

Kathy Klunder lives in a 2.5 million dollar house. And GRE is Kathy's company, not Virgils. Now does this sound like the type of person who would soil her hands with the details of breeding gliders when they can be easily and cheaply obtained from the mega breeders out west? Besides a company or person who breeds and sells directly to the public, like Mike McGrath, needs a breeders lisence, not a dealers lisence.

Julie, I would likd a copy of the scans. And if any of you have any details about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets's new neuter program, I would like that also.

Email to:
smallpawsas@yahoo.com

I will be sending you the email shortly Anita, I have been checking out atticworx and am planning to get stealth wheels ordered in about 3 weeks or so... sorry it took me so long to respond.

I remembered, and then looked it up again, that this is the way that they castrate cattle and other large animals. I have never heard of it being seen as appropriate for a small animal.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/beef/facts/07-029.htm

Just an FYI, Pocket Pets was at the World of Pets Expo in Timonium, MD, this weekend (Jan 23-25).

C.

I have never heard of it being done on anything smaller than large breed dogs, and it STILL turns my stomach!

I know this is an older thread but at work today (I work at a vet's office) I heard the telltale sound of a glider coming from a woman picking up her dog. She had a suggie in her shirt. I asked her where it came from and she said a trade show and she mentioned Perfect Pets.

We were talking about diets and I said how I mix up special stuff for them. I swear she smirked at me and said "oh no you don't have to feed that stuff. They make a chow mix and that is all you need with veggies."
HPW is NOT cat food.

I tried to refer her to here but it was like she was brainwashed by this Perfect Pets. She didn't seem interested. Hello? They are selling gliders as impulse purchases at a trade show!

Pretty disturbing

it makes me JUST as angry when I see this stuff today as it did back when I began this thread- brainwashing is EXACTLY what they do... that is why they tell you NEVER to get glider info off the internet or talk to people of glider forums... because they want you to listen to NO ONE BUT THEM!!

I was buying goodies at walmart for my kids this week. I have their stuff put on a diff sales slip from our food and cleaners and such for tax records. When I told the cashier that was for my pets she asked what kind. When I told her suggies she said they have 3..no wait 2 one died. they think mom didn't have enough nutrients to feed the baby and she died. The buy pellet stuff from teh pet store. Her mother bought the pair from Critters~r~us in Lewisburg. I am soooo mad! They give me dirty looks when I go in and they have moved the gliders so I can't check on them as easy now. Can we say something to HIDE?

Wow, you would maybe think that because you work in a vet's office that the lady might actually LISTEN to you? Ya think?

Hopefully she won't be bringing in her gliders for malnutrition next time. Well...hopefully she will end up checking out this site, you never know.

and THAT is why S.P.I.N. was created!