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Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy] #782661
05/22/09 03:11 PM
05/22/09 03:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Suncoast doesn't go all over the U.S taking gliders in trailers in tiny cubes to sell at flea markets lying to people and charging crazy prices forcing them to buy tiny cages, bad diet foods, heat rocks, etc,.

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets travels all over selling joeys as young as 3 weeks old. Many of the gliders die in those trailers and the ones sold..many of those die too. They are too young to be away from their parents and or are sick to begin with. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets also neuters joeys themselves. THAT is SICK.

As far as Lisa not letting people in her glider room/s, I would think with as many people who want to visit, there is way to much risk in constant disturbance of the gliders and possible infection from people who may not be clean or could bring in parasites. There is also too much chance of gliders being stolen as we see on the boards.

For these reasons and more, I don't let just anyone see my gliders either. I am VERY picky about who comes in my home and who sees my gliders. If I was a breeder, I certainly wouldn't let strangers be peeking or handling new joeys or their parents. Gliders can reject for many reasons.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: SugarBlossoms] #782664
05/22/09 03:14 PM
05/22/09 03:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Noone should be "bashed" for any reason about WHERE they got their gliders. It doesn't matter where the suggie kids came from, the fact is, they are here and deserve the best like all other gliders.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: SugarBlossoms] #782673
05/22/09 03:36 PM
05/22/09 03:36 PM

A
AmyLynn
Unregistered
AmyLynn
Unregistered
A



I have 3 gliders from Mike McGarth (2 that I took from my sister) and they are healthy and well cared for. The only thing that gets me angry is the mills not caring about the gliders they sell and the poor babies that end up dying because a new owner got the wrong info on how to care for them and that they are still to young to be away from their parents. We all need to quit bashing people who come here for help. We have all I think at one time or another been afraid to ask a question on here due to the fact we might get bashed or looked down on. I know I have felt that way and I stayed away from GC for awhile, I love this forum but I feel at times like there are clicks on here on if you are not part of it then to bad for you. And it has also kept for from wanting to go to the glider get togethers.

I just wish everyone would quit being so critical about things. If you do not have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ] #782790
05/22/09 08:40 PM
05/22/09 08:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I don't bash someone for getting a Perfect Pocket Pets glider the first time it is repeat buyers that continue to support the bad practices they have that get me angry. The ones that know better with just a tad research who buy from Perfect Pocket Pets too. I want the poor impulse buyers to come here to learn so they will be better prepared to care for their furkid. I bought my first glider at a flea market from a private breeder. I ended up education Her after finding GC and saved/bettered the lives of her gliders. The past is the past and we have to learn but Perfect Pocket Pets doesn't care to make life better for the fur kids and THAT IS WRONG.


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: cyndiekb] #791380
06/09/09 06:50 PM
06/09/09 06:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 862
Saint Petersburg, FL
Viva La Glider Offline
Glider Guardian
Viva La Glider  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 862
Saint Petersburg, FL
I’m not sure why anyone would try so hard to compare Suncoast and Perfect Pocket Pets. It seems to me some of the posters here may have other motives or in fact be from Perfect Pocket Pets ((PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets). We are two very different companies with very different philosophies in how we re-home our animals, in our husbandry practices and in our customer support.

Be that as it may, I would like to take this opportunity to address some of the material in these posts. I do this as I’ve had a lot of people email and ask me why I’m not making a public statement. Personally, I think people who really know us know what we stand for, but apparently others are willing to speculate about things (incorrectly) that are clearly stated on our website.

The number of animals born at our facility averages about ten joeys per week. From the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets website, and this is copied verbatim: “successfully placed literally TENS of THOUSANDS of these little darlings into loving homes all around the country.”

I think you guys can do the math. Our volume is not even close to (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets.

Suncoast has been a licensed breeder for over ten years. You can search on GC or go to the USDA to find out how long (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets has been licensed. (Hint: it’s not that long, yet they’ve sold TENS of THOUSANDS)

SunCoast nearly always has a waiting list and there have been times when our waiting list has been over three months. I’ve made a decision many years ago to maintain our breeding facility at a constant level, as there is a point where you are too big. I could have expanded many times over, but I will not do so as this will affect our ability to take the very best of care of our animals. Bigger is not better, at least in my opinion.

Suncoast Sugar gliders raises and sells its own sugar gliders, with a few exceptions. We have openly discussed in past newsletters that sometimes we will help small breeders sell their joeys if the logistics work out for all, and they practice good husbandry and have healthy joeys. This may account for only 5-10 joeys we offer to re-home per year. We also offer to find companions for special colored gliders as we are not always in a position to offer unrelated males and females in the color variations. If we act as the middle person to bring another breeder in, it is required that we hold a Class B license.

The reason we do not allow public visits to our facility is also covered in a past newsletter. I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again. This is the only business I’ve ever been in where our customers come second, because the animals come first. Our vets feel that having a closed facility is prudent to keep stress levels low on the sugar gliders as well as to mitigate any risks of infections being carried in by outsiders. If this is a problem for a buyer, I’m OK with that. If the issue is “quality of care” we can supply many, many customer references as to the health of our babies.

I am not sure what hushpuppy means by Suncoast sells gliders from undocumented sources. Nor am I understanding what she means by no plan to prevent overpopulation. It is also inaccurate to say that Suncoast has formulated and markets its own diet. Fact is, the diet was first presented by Dr C many years ago and she picked the manufacturer of the staple food that she endorsed. Again, this is all documented information on our website dating back many years.

Our monthly newsletters have been offered for over eight years now. Anything that has to do with diet and nutrition (and many care topics as well), if not written by a Dr. has been approved by a Dr. prior to our publishing. We work with quite a few veterinarians as well as animal nutritionists and even work with a chemist to help further proper education in sugar glider husbandry. This team of experts is also integrally involved in our product selection as we are well aware that not all things are created equally. We strive to find the best in product classes.

In fact, SunCoast played a very important role in the only sugar glider nutritional study ever published. This study was led by Dr. Ellen Dierenfeld, an expert on the nutritional needs of exotic animals, and provided insight into the dietary requirements of sugar gliders. I’m pretty sure the results of the study were posted to Glider Central as a .pdf file (not sure where that is, perhaps a moderator can find it if people are interested).

Now, a lot of people have different opinions on glider husbandry, so it’s not surprising what we preach and what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets preaches in this area is very different.

However, I would have to question the credibility of a knowledge source that makes statements like “all sugar gliders carry giardia” and giardia “does not affect the sugar glider. In fact, it can be very useful in balancing their digestion”. These are direct quotes from the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets web site.

Neither statement is true by a long shot.

To make statements like these I believe reveals either:

A very shallow knowledge of the animal compared to what is stated on the web site, or

A willingness to state opinions as facts without proper research

The fact much of what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets states in materials they provide to customers is at odds with what is known through shared experience is well known. It’s fine to have opinions, but then to refer to the shared experience of this community on their web site as “very old - and extremely out of date” while peddling their opinions as “cutting edge” and “new advancements” is quite a different approach compared to what we do here at SunCoast.

Here is an example of the difference between SunCoast and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets in the knowledge area:

When we started hearing from a ton of people about this giardia issue, we asked our vets to research the issue and published the results in our newsletter for any person to see. We found studies of both captive and wild animals indicate an average infection rate of just over 13%. Further, all the vets we talked with indicated giardia is a parasite and in no way could be considered “useful in balancing their digestion”.

At the very least, this certainly should make people wonder if the statement “regularly works with the best veterinarians and Research Facilities in the world” from the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets web site should be suspected as a stretch of the truth. How could a company with so much experience and such a depth of resources make such a basic animal husbandry mistake?

At Suncoast, we have never claimed expert status, although I do think over ten years of experience qualifies us as somewhat of an expert, but we always refer to and give credit to the great team of Doctors that are willing to take their valuable time to help us better educate the public. It is no secret that I often say that I continue to learn about sugar gliders, their needs, their behaviors and their care. I am always open to learning more and I find our customers are often great sources to us in sharing stories and experiences that in exchange help us to help more people.

Suncoast Sugar Gliders will not, without exception, sell single gliders into homes that have no other sugar gliders. Again, this is clearly stated on our website.

Anyone who knows anything about us knows that I am ready willing and able to help anyone who has a need related to sugar gliders. This is the way it has always been and this is the way I intend to continue. I only ask that if you wish to make such statements about our business practices, that you simply ask or read our website.

I am proud to be part of a small group that I feel has done a great deal to help expand sugar glider husbandry skills worldwide. We are fortunate to have some terrific vets and animal nutritionists willing to contribute and review our information to help people get it right. We are also happy to be part of a great community committed to the promotion of the highest standards in animal care.


Lisa and Arnold www.sugar-gliders.com
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Viva La Glider] #791390
06/09/09 07:11 PM
06/09/09 07:11 PM

A
astronoc
Unregistered
astronoc
Unregistered
A



I would like to see the .pdf file but not sure about the search term. If anyone finds it, please let me know if not posted on here.

Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy] #792804
06/12/09 12:01 PM
06/12/09 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Lisa, thanks for coming and clearing some of this up. I apprecaiate it and I'm sure that others do also. And it hasn't gone unnoticed that the OP hasn't returned to this post. Somehow I have the feeling that this person might be one of your competitors.

However, I still have one question if you don't mind. How many breeders do you have?

Last edited by hushpuppy; 06/12/09 04:27 PM.

Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook



Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy] #792836
06/12/09 01:23 PM
06/12/09 01:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Interesting observation about the original poster Anita! He has only one other post on GC - and speaks out strongly against (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and their mill breeding practices. He speaks in that post as if he is a well read member of the "glider community" yet he has only 2 posts on GC! Makes me wonder who he really is and why he brought up this topic in the first place.

Lisa, nice to have you here on the board to explain how very different Suncoast Sugar Gliders is from the mega mill breeders. Hope you will join us on other topics now and then as you have time. (PS I owe you some new photos of your grandgliders! They are such wonderful glider kids! I got busy yesterday and missed tent time - Corky complained about it by barking off and on all night.)


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ] #793035
06/12/09 09:45 PM
06/12/09 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 712
Red Oak Texas
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian
anjill_tree  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 712
Red Oak Texas
Bourbon I agree. I also think the other above atatements are from loving glider owners, and are very passionate when addressing mill breeding. Evidently (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and suncoast are not in that category. We all have choices to buy or not to buy. Rescue or not to rescue. Breed or not to breed. We are all here for help, and , to help each other right? One thing I have learned on the internet glider society is, buy gliders with lineage. I do think both (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and Suncoast are savvy business owners. Actually, reading this forum, I have learned alot about the USDA License info of their business.


Cathy Hart

Support Aspergers and Autism Research, help put the pieces together.
www.hartlandsugargliders.com
cathyhart2texas@yahoo.com
469-964-4152
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Bourbon] #793126
06/13/09 12:45 AM
06/13/09 12:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Originally Posted By: Bourbon
Richard your question was what was the difference between SC and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets.. Perfect Pocket Pets is a dealer, they sell gliders that other people breed, they have a contract with that breeder. now since Virgil is a business man, he knows exactly what he is doing cause he is making a small fortune doing it. now why he is considered a mill breeder is beyond me, cause he doesn't breed them, is he a dealer that sells sick and underage joeys? yes, but he doesn't breed them.
And it is much easier to blame the dealers, and try to shut them down ruin their business than it is to find the breeder and do what is right. That would be educating the breeder and getting them to clean up their act.

lets not be so quick to judge, classify and categorize people, groups and places and concentrate more on getting the good info out to the masses, eventually that info may and will become the standard. Just as (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is educating their customers, their standard may become the norm far sooner than the online communities, since the online community is far more interested in alienation rather than education.


I have to wonder if you really believe this or if you are thinking you have a way to get your foot in the door and can get your pending dried BML product to the masses through PerfectPocketPets. It is bad business when animals suffer PERIOD. To continue to support these people by buying the animals or the products they offer just contributes to the continued abuse of the animals we are supposed to love so much.


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: cyndiekb] #793140
06/13/09 01:42 AM
06/13/09 01:42 AM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Quote:
I have to wonder if you really believe this or if you are thinking you have a way to get your foot in the door and can get your pending dried BML product to the masses through PerfectPocketPets.

regarding anything about what I would like to supply to the masses is of no concern of yours, obviously there is very little you know directly regarding anything I do. but that seems to be the biggest problem. there are many people who assume things, that haven't a clue what is really going on. there is a little info spit out, and some people run with that little info and create their own scenerios with them.
this thread is a fine example of that.

I am , have been and always will be about education, and anyway we can educate, we should do it, and especially to large groups who we feel may need it, but it doesn't mean that there is only one way to do things, or only one persons or group of persons way that is correct.

there are many many organizations, and projects that work on education, some work on education in early stages, some work on it in later stages, some work on it, long after the people should have known better. My thoughts, and beliefs in education has never changed. there is more than one way to educate, there is more than one way to create change. some believe in alienation and desecration, yet others believe that change comes about by education, some believe that laws have to be changed, in wanting to change the laws some have an aggressive approach, some have more passive of an approach.

I have noticed over the years, that change comes with education, the more we concentrate on educating, the more that have been educated will educate others. The cycle will continue, and hopefully as I stated the the good education will become the standard, but as long as they are working on educating far more people than we are, because we as a whole are working harder on destroying each other, theirs will be the standard the longest and our fight will always be an uphill battle.

IF (purely hypothetical) IF I decided to join forces with Virgil Klunder to work on making changes and helping to get better info out there, and better standards from his breeder, at the very least I would be doing something more positive that just sitting back and complaining.

now I know there will be people who take that statement, and twist it and turn it to be what they THINK it is, but the truth of the matter is.. regardless of how we educate and how we get the good info out there is mute, what is important is that the education DOES get out there.

To educate requires understanding, and sometimes working different angles, techniques, and ways, till you find the right method that works for that particular person or group of people. It means working together with people you like, people you don't and people regardless of their history, it means putting the GLIDERS above it all and working towards a better future for them,

if anyone WANTS to know anything about the "dried BML" referred to here feel free to contact me, my number is in my sig and you will get the "REST of the story" as it is totally off topic in this thread.



Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Bourbon] #793161
06/13/09 06:49 AM
06/13/09 06:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
why cant we all just get along frown

bravo LISA!

bravo BOURBON!

everyone that has ever owned a glider has some tidbit of info we can use to make things better for EVERYONE! what works and what doesnt work. what to do and what not to do. EVERYONE can contribute!

Last edited by JillMarie; 06/14/09 08:00 AM.

:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Richard] #793169
06/13/09 08:26 AM
06/13/09 08:26 AM

B
Beezer
Unregistered
Beezer
Unregistered
B



You know putting Sun Coast up against (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is like comparing apples to oranges - unfortunately it's the gliders lives that are at stake - Sun Coast is a reputable breeder USDA Certified - and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets - well there is nothing nice I can say about them and no one else can either if they are honest - yes - some people have bought gliders from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets that have lived and been healthy but that has probably been just by pure luck -

My Junior - unfortunately came from a glider mill but it wasn't (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and they have since been closed down - Happily Junior has always been healthy and happy

Sue
owned by &
mom to

Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: SugarBlossoms] #793199
06/13/09 10:36 AM
06/13/09 10:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
sugar blossoms,
i agree with you 100%. i am not breeding-yet, but
if my gliders ever have joeys i would not let strangers
handle them or come near them.
i have 3 gliders now and am getting my last one next
month. i have not seen any of my babies parents, my
first 2 were not handled and were a nightmare to tame.
my third glider, leah, i bought from a breeder on here
and she was hand tamed and she is a loving glider.
point is even if you dont see the breeders facility
doesn't mean they are a bad or mill breeder.
personally i love sun coast, i buy from them alot and
it is always a quality product, i get their news letter
and they do recommend this forum, that is how i
joined.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: cyndiekb] #793215
06/13/09 11:19 AM
06/13/09 11:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
tried to quote a sentence, have to figure it out.

regards,
nancy

Last edited by hwh4ev; 06/13/09 11:31 AM. Reason: sent twice

regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: cyndiekb] #793220
06/13/09 11:28 AM
06/13/09 11:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
cindiekb,
the statement re: dried bml etc. when you don't know the facts you should pm that person to get the info. you want and not slander or make assumptions on a community board.
isn't this board to help each other?

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hwh4ev] #793223
06/13/09 11:33 AM
06/13/09 11:33 AM

A
AmyLynn
Unregistered
AmyLynn
Unregistered
A



Bourbon I totally agree with you. With education comes change. And we can achieve that with getting the information out there. We need to quit bashing people and work together for the welfare of our little loves of our lives the sugar glider and in doing so more people will want to listen to what we have to say and they might or might not follow it. But is'nt it worth it. Even if you change one person's views on the better way to care for them. We are all learning new things on the SG everyday and we need to help others with the info we learn. JMO

Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: ] #793305
06/13/09 02:53 PM
06/13/09 02:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
You can't educate someone who has only the bottom dollar focus. Or maybe that is the new focus of many people here now. It USED to be about the treatment of gliders not "What's in it for me?"

The last few post seem to say close your eyes an it will go away. It is ok we know the truth but don't really care.

I am not so fast to turn a blind eye when it comes to animals suffering. Did I say these were bad people no I said they have bad practices. Supporting them supports animal abuse.

Anyone putting out sick, underage joeys, or making gliders live in lil cages with poor nutrition, with little to no enrichment, just to make a buck off them OR those that support them needs a swift kick.....


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: cyndiekb] #793511
06/13/09 11:26 PM
06/13/09 11:26 PM

A
AmyLynn
Unregistered
AmyLynn
Unregistered
A



I care about the welfare of gliders. I was out today at a festival in my city giving the people that thought about buying them correct information. And we stopped people from buying them through the education we gave them not by bashing (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. We just stoop to their level when we bash them. When people are given different info then what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets told them they think twice about it and most will go do their research. I would love to take all (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets babies away from them but I live in reality and know that until we all get the correct info out there people are going to keep buying from them.

I even took my crabby babies with me and showed alot of people how crabby they can be and that they will bite and lunge at you when they are scared. People need to know that they are not what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets makes them out to be. So yes I care alot and I will continue to do my part and educate and hopefully with that it will stop others from buying from them. I stopped at least 5 people today that really were going to buy so to me that was a small step in the right direction.

Also I might not be able to educate (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets but I will try my hardest to educate the potential buyers and let them make the choice and if they stop buying from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets eventually they will go out of business. WE all just need to do our part to stop the mills.

Last edited by AmyLynn; 06/13/09 11:29 PM.
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: cyndiekb] #793521
06/13/09 11:56 PM
06/13/09 11:56 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
re: dried BML, for those that don't know, at the sgga in ark in 2005- I had discussed with many people what they would think of a dried version for travel.. so this is not something new that just came about..

Cyndie, your opinions are just that yours, the way you do things is your way, I personally know that you have a huge heart where the gliders are concerned and would have nothing but their best interest in mind. with that being said, I also know you are full of things to teach even the worst owner and breeder to help make those gliders lives better. I also know you have a huge resource of contacts that could also make that happen "REGARDLESS of where they get their gliders from. I personally have seen you help owners who have gotten gliders from far worst people that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets.

now with that being said.

you said somethings I would love to comment on. That is ON TOPIC.

Quote:
Anyone putting out sick, underage joeys, or making gliders live in lil cages with poor nutrition, with little to no enrichment, just to make a buck off them OR those that support them needs a swift kick.....


I agree, the kicks have been made, but to change them at the breeder level which is where these issues are.. then education needs to be put forth, A business that sells products whether it is gliders or products for them, is about making money. regardless of whose business it is..

Quote:
To continue to support these people by buying the animals or the products they offer just contributes to the continued abuse of the animals we are supposed to love so much.


Although I understand, this as I have said it many times in my past, many times before I started looking at the bigger pictures..

Quote:
You can't educate someone who has only the bottom dollar focus. Or maybe that is the new focus of many people here now. It USED to be about the treatment of gliders not "What's in it for me?"


I disagree I think you can educate keeping their focus in mind, after all it is in the end all about the gliders.. and them having better lives.
and sometimes to get them to increase their profits, they need to see where increasing the quality can benefit both sides, the sides of the business person as well as the side of the gliders..

for an example..

some of the issues on the broker side that could be changed that would improve the gliders lives.. and make him more money..

1. sell bigger cages, at least the minimum.. 3x2x2
2. sell various diet options.. example hpw, suncoast, petpro, exotic nutrition etc..
3. offer better products, the pouches could be of higher quality, safe for gliders more roomy, offer better bonding pouches, sissy pouches instead of leashes.
4. offer higher quality toys, wheels etc.. wouldn't it be nice to know these gliders may be going home with a stealth instead of a wire wheel?
5. offer a list of websites to buy more glider items. Maybe a list of gathering that happen yearly, like shawnas, Judies, etc..or connections to other local groups.


something to think about at the breeder levels.. if he were to see that cleaning up a few things at the breeder level will not only mean more money for return customers, but also will improve the reputation of his business he may be more will to force those changes.

examples..on his website he has pics of 8 week old joeys,--- He should enforce that, raise the bar on their sizes and ages.

improve the overall health of the breeders gliders.. less sick gliders means happier customers. happier customers means more money.

improve the nutrition at the breeders level, that would produce much happier healthier gliders.

these are just a few examples.. that would benefit both the sellers as well as the gliders, I think that closing our eyes, is the mentality of sitting back waiting for the "broker to feel the pain of losing money" and thinking that is going to make a difference. thinking that we as an online group is going to make such a huge financial impact . When in reality it really only makes them want to keep their clients away from the info. Away from the great products and the vast amount that everyone could teach. They will choose alienation, since that is what is being pushed here online, and they will do things their own way. sadly, we only get trickles of people with (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gliders.

by the way as a side note: we have educated other mill breeders in the past, we no longer hear about sick gliders or gliders that are dying from them, we no longer have those gliders on bad diets.. and they are making more money than before, but, they also have healthier gliders and happier owners.

this is the standard for many of our breeders here, but that is only the few we know about.

Quote:
The last few post seem to say close your eyes an it will go away. It is ok we know the truth but don't really care.

I am not so fast to turn a blind eye when it comes to animals suffering. Did I say these were bad people no I said they have bad practices. Supporting them supports animal abuse.


everyone has screamed do not buy their gliders do not buy their products.. no one is closing an eye to what is, just wanting to CHANGE what can be.

after all I don't see anyone here online saying "I am going to run out and buy a (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets glider, or.... saying "cool.... flea market, I want to run over to (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets booth, and get some of his fabulous products..

it isn't the online community that needs the education. it is those that do not come here first, it is those that will not come here after getting one from them, it is those that use his education.

so all the screaming and arguing is really preaching to the choir.. it is time to work on educating just as was done by AmyLynn but educating with the right info, not bashing, but educating. offering places to go to read about the "GLIDERS" not people OPINIONS.

And yes Cyndie you are closing a blind eye to their suffering if you don't support them getting better products from the broker that is safer and better for them and their needs.

we can make a difference, we the few, as compared to the "MASSES" but we all have to do what we can to help. Some have far more to offer than others. But even those others could suggest better products to sell, that would make the gliders lives better.

can't we all try to figure out how we can help ALL of (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gliders have more enriched lives. not just the few that find their way here?


Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Bourbon] #793586
06/14/09 08:17 AM
06/14/09 08:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
It is on a very small scale, but everyone who sees my gliders (and its alot as I bring them out shopping, and carry small photo albums of them ALL over and show them to NUMEROUS people during my work day at a LARGE retailer)gets some education about gliders. I always try to discourage purchasing from mill breeders at expos and such, ask them to look for rescue homes instead. I stress how these are high maintenance animals and if anyone says its cheap and easy they are wrong. I ask them to research, more research, and when they think they know it all....do some more research!
perhaps we cant change things on a grand scale, but I feel if I can help even one glider get purchased by a potential owner who has been educated and still made a commitment to go through with glider ownership then maybe I have helped that glider have a better home.
"Helping the glider race live better lives...one glider at a time"

and I still say that while mill breeders are bad...not ALL can be ALL bad. EVERYONE has the potential for good with just alittle direction given. All this energy used to bash breeders...should be directed at educating them and others and then when no one buys from them, they will either change or close shop. the problem is not with the breeders...its with consumers who will buy anything from anyone on a wim...educate the consumer and you force the seller to change. LOL I am gonna have to stop now before I offend anyone....


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: JillMarie] #793621
06/14/09 10:59 AM
06/14/09 10:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
I think we are all on the same page as far as the health and well being of the animals are concerned. And I really appreciate GC allowing us to discuss this even though it has gone a little off topic.

Educating the public about the practices of these dealers is always a good thing. And we as a community must never stop that.

But educating the dealers assumes that they don’t know what they are doing is wrong. It is a known fact that ALL of these dealers monitor these boards to see what is being said about them. So they DO know that it is wrong to buy and sell underage gliders, parasite infested gliders, and diseased gliders. Also parking lot neuters are wrong; either by pocket knife or by soldering iron. And they know it is wrong to purchase from mills. They know these things and yet they continue to support the mills where inhumane conditions are the norm. The ball is in their court to clean up their act and do business the right way. Most of us could care less how many they sell in flea markets or home shows or how much money they make. We want them to give out good solid information and to sell healthy well adjusted gliders that come from healthy well adjusted parents.

They know the laws as well as I do.

1. They need to notify USDA EVERY time they set up shop that they are housing gliders in that location. Both the market site and the hotel room if they house gliders in their room.
2. They need have a veterinary program set up for every location in case there is a sick glider.
3. Then need to have a humane euthanization program in place. Just in case.
4. They need to have records of where they got the gliders from and where they sold the gliders too.
5. They need to have species appropriate food which is also age appropriate. After all a three week oop glider doesn’t have teeth developed enough to eat hard pellets and will slowly starve to death.
6. They need to provide water at all times.
7. They need to provide clean cages that are large enough for the number of gliders being housed and that provide for normal postural movement. For arboreal animals that movement requires some height.
8. They need to make sure that where they are housing these animals does not expose them to extreme temperatures; either hot or cold. So they can’t store them in a trailer with no ventilation in Florida in July, and they can’t sit them on the frozen ground I Michigan in January.

I’m sure there are a few more but I can’t think of them now. But these are federal laws, most of which are being broken on a regular basis by these dealers. And most of it is just common since things that you would think that we wouldn’t even need laws about.


As for them not being responsible for the breeders, that is not so. Let’s put this on a business level. As long as they continue to purchase an inferior product and sell it to the public, and lie to the public about what they are marketing, these mills will continue to produce that product. It is the dealers responsibility to know what they are buying and remarketing to the public. It is the dealers responsibility to purchase and sell a quality product, it is not the unsuspecting uneducated consumers responsibility. And unless the dealers open up and become transparent in their dealings with those mills, I for one will not let up on them.

So yeah, education is a great thing as long as you have a student that is willing to learn. But so far we haven’t seen that willingness to learn and until we do, there should be no letting up on these people. As I said the ball is in their court.

BTW, I’d still like to know how many breeders Lisa at Suncoast has. If any of you talk to her, let her know that I have asked her a question here.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy] #793654
06/14/09 12:23 PM
06/14/09 12:23 PM

N
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
N



I just want to add that the vet I used in FL (who I totally trust with my gliders) spoke very highly of Suncoast. He told me about how he was very close friends with the vet they use. He used to work with their vet. So, if my vet speaks very highly of them and their vet then I will trust that Suncoast is an upstanding reputable company who really care for all of their gliders.

I feel that it is a personal choice of whether you allow outsiders (potential new buyers) into where you keep your gliders and joey's. I do not look down on someone for not wanting to allow people around their gliders. That does not raise a "red flag" with me. What I would be concerned about is how they say they care for them. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is obviously giving out bad information on how to care for gliders. They are also unwilling to help you unless you give them money for their gliders. (I have asked them questions in the past and they blew me off, I was curious as to what they would say). Suncoast will help people regardless if they buy stuff or gliders from them or not. To me, that means Suncoast is not all about money.

I do agree that we can learn from any glider owner whether good or bad.
I also think if someone has any concerns with Suncoast not allowing them to see their facility then ask to speak directly to their vet or ask for documentation of the health status of their gliders. If you still don't feel comfortable then there are other breeders you can get sugar gliders from.


These are just MY opinions.

Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy] #793674
06/14/09 01:03 PM
06/14/09 01:03 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Originally Posted By: hushpuppy
I think we are all on the same page as far as the health and well being of the animals are concerned. And I really appreciate GC allowing us to discuss this even though it has gone a little off topic.

Educating the public about the practices of these dealers is always a good thing. And we as a community must never stop that.

There is a difference between education and alienation/segregation I just read a post that stated they have nothing good to say about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, and neither does anyone else, and the few are the lucky ones. AND they didn't even buy a glider from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. the sad thing is that there is many many people that have (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gliders and they have no problems but still want to learn more, and the way these "educational boards" operate, it doesn't make those people feel welcome about learning more, because simply put, as someone told me, they feel as if their glider is already being given a death sentence, I haven't seen many if any at all a post where someone mentions having a (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets glider, where they were not being condemned or pitied for supporting a mill breeder, They can just as easily go back to the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets board and they are not the "lucky ones" in fact they are the majority.

Sadly people get the wrongs locked into their heads and they don't see the ripple effect it has on reaching out to educate those that haven't found us yet. after all, they are warned about us on his site, they come out here to check things out themselves and viola he is right. So it doesn't take much to push those same people back into their circle.


But educating the dealers assumes that they don’t know what they are doing is wrong. It is a known fact that ALL of these dealers monitor these boards to see what is being said about them.

Why should they listen to you or anyone else that is bashing him, his practices everything he does? After all he may look at you as being a fanatic or an extremist, They monitor the boards, they see what is being written, they use that against you, after all what else does he see out of posts like yours? He doesn't have to deal with you, or anyone else, and few are giving others the opportunity to speak their voice.

So they DO know that it is wrong to buy and sell underage gliders, parasite infested gliders, and diseased gliders. Also parking lot neuters are wrong; either by pocket knife or by soldering iron. And they know it is wrong to purchase from mills. They know these things and yet they continue to support the mills where inhumane conditions are the norm.


What do you know about the breeder that they get their gliders from, Do you know who they are? Then legally deal with them.

As much as I work with the medical areas, as well as others, chances are at the breeder level there is probably only a few cages that may be an issue with the giardia, because there are many many gliders who do not have it, that they sell. outside of that..
you talk of the numbers that are sold, compare that number to the actual number of ill gliders, it is a very very small percentage. the numbers of breeders increased the percentages stay the same, just the numbers go up.

as for the neutering, it is LEGAL although we all don't approve of it, it is legal, if not, something would have been done.

Legally their cage only has to be big enough for them to stand up and turn around,

Legally the brokers have far less paperwork that is required of them then the hobby breeder

Legally there is no minimum selling age

Legally they can buy gliders from anyone they want

I could go on and on..

the truth of the matter is the online community is so full of hate and discontent amoung each other, there is very little getting accomplished, because to get these legal things changed requires changing the laws. To get these laws changed means EVERYONE to work together in harmony for the same goals.That means working WITH people you don't like, That means working WITH people you may have personal issues with, that means working with those that not only come here after buying (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gliders but also those that don't. Because right now, if we, this very small online community, put together a petition to change these laws, we would easily be out voted by those on his website. And we can't even agree on a minimum cage size for the gliders that would be realistic.

this is something you yourself has said you were going to do, then others said they were going to do, and yet others.. YOU KNOW what routes must be taken to legally get these laws changed you have looked into it.

There are groups working with various agencies, but there is a "protocal", a process and that process must be followed.



The ball is in their court to clean up their act and do business the right way.

NO the ball is in OUR court if we don't like the laws and rules to work on changing them

Most of us could care less how many they sell in flea markets or home shows or how much money they make.

that is because MOST of us knows it is NONE of OUR BUSINESS how much any company makes or sells.

Our ONLY concern is the gliders, and helping those with them


We want them to give out good solid information and to sell healthy well adjusted gliders that come from healthy well adjusted parents.

LOL I would like to see this with humans too... but... who is the judge as to what gliders are considered well adjusted? or healthy? again without the breeders part here few really know the truth.


They know the laws as well as I do.

and the sad thing here is... NO PROOF they they are not following those laws.. to catch them doing it requires PROOF. and for as much as people talk and complain, the proof is not in the hands of the agencies that it needs to be in the hands of.

1. They need to notify USDA EVERY time they set up shop that they are housing gliders in that location. Both the market site and the hotel room if they house gliders in their room.
2. They need have a veterinary program set up for every location in case there is a sick glider.
3. Then need to have a humane euthanization program in place. Just in case.
4. They need to have records of where they got the gliders from and where they sold the gliders too.
5. They need to have species appropriate food which is also age appropriate. After all a three week oop glider doesn’t have teeth developed enough to eat hard pellets and will slowly starve to death.
6. They need to provide water at all times.
7. They need to provide clean cages that are large enough for the number of gliders being housed and that provide for normal postural movement. For arboreal animals that movement requires some height.
8. They need to make sure that where they are housing these animals does not expose them to extreme temperatures; either hot or cold. So they can’t store them in a trailer with no ventilation in Florida in July, and they can’t sit them on the frozen ground I Michigan in January.

I’m sure there are a few more but I can’t think of them now. But these are federal laws, most of which are being broken on a regular basis by these dealers. And most of it is just common since things that you would think that we wouldn’t even need laws about.

Again, some of these are things we WISHED there were more specific laws on, like the diet, there is still no agreement as to what diet is appropriate either age or species specific, as well as housing minimum selling age..


As for them not being responsible for the breeders, that is not so. Let’s put this on a business level. As long as they continue to purchase an inferior product and sell it to the public, and lie to the public about what they are marketing, these mills will continue to produce that product. It is the dealers responsibility to know what they are buying and remarketing to the public. It is the dealers responsibility to purchase and sell a quality product, it is not the unsuspecting uneducated consumers responsibility.

Sad to say this is a BUYER BEWARE WORLD, it is the buyers responsibility to know the difference between high and low quality, as well as how to tell if the gliders are sick, be educated before buying any pet. BUT in the real world, the one I live in, the majority do not research before buying from mills or brokers. So then it is OUR responsibility to teach them the right info, so they can tell what they are getting.

And unless the dealers open up and become transparent in their dealings with those mills, I for one will not let up on them.

So yeah, education is a great thing as long as you have a student that is willing to learn. But so far we haven’t seen that willingness to learn and until we do, there should be no letting up on these people. As I said the ball is in their court.

BTW, I’d still like to know how many breeders Lisa at Suncoast has. If any of you talk to her, let her know that I have asked her a question here.

How many breeders Lisa has is HER business, SunCoast Sugargliders answers to her federal, and state agencies, she has graciously come in here and answered the questions asked, and has chosen not to answer others. But that is her choice, This thread has failed to prove that anything she does is detrimental to the health and well being of her gliders, so now my question to you would be..

What makes you think she HAS to account to you for anything she does with her business? You don't have to account to anyone but your agencies regarding your business,

I think their is a big misconception out there that people must account JUST because someone WANTS to know.

There is not a large number of complaints coming from her facility, if there way, deal with it through legal means, instead of insinuating she is doing something wrong or doesn't have the numbers YOU THINK she should have.

If all the energy's were concentrated on making changes in the laws, we would have far less turmoil in the community and many healthier gliders.

You want accountability for your personal reasons go work with USDA or the IRS, fl game one of the agencies that have the legal right to have that info.


Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: Bourbon] #793710
06/14/09 02:46 PM
06/14/09 02:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 712
Red Oak Texas
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian
anjill_tree  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 712
Red Oak Texas
I do believe anyone's mind and heart can change. education is the key. I would love to help get the laws changed. I do not know where to start yet. I am compiling list of breeders that have lineage of their gliders, online. Then I'm going to do off-line breeders. I think this will be very interesting, if anyone wants to help, just PM me. This will be done as fact finding only.


Cathy Hart

Support Aspergers and Autism Research, help put the pieces together.
www.hartlandsugargliders.com
cathyhart2texas@yahoo.com
469-964-4152
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: anjill_tree] #793727
06/14/09 03:52 PM
06/14/09 03:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
The laws that I posted are in place. I didn't hear about them from late night phone conversations, at gatherings, or from conversations with dealers. I found out about them from the USDA and from reading many, many inspection reports. With all due respect maybe you should actually read the rules before you make comments on them. They are not wishful thinking they are there. There are laws in place to protect these animals they just need to be enforced.

No Lori, pocket knife and soldering iron neuters are not illegal and I never said that they were. But they are wrong. Please read what I said carefully.

And, the community turmoil that you keep referring to has no bearing on what has been done to prevent abuse, nor will it have any bearing on what will be done in the future. I’m not even sure why you keep bringing that up. There is no motive for this other than the need to see that all is well with the gliders.

And preventing animal abuse is my business and it’s everyone’s business. After all we are talking about living things that can not speak for themselves.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy] #793753
06/14/09 04:42 PM
06/14/09 04:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,013
Florida
Jaxsuggies Offline
Glider Guardian
Jaxsuggies  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,013
Florida
I am going to need time and calm down before I post a full reply.

I just cannot believe my eyes that a respected member of the community is actually saying that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is all good and dandy and that we really need to go after the breeders who sell to (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. Well, guess what? If (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets was not buying from them, these breeders would not survive, therefore we would not have hundreds and hundreds of gliders dying of giardia and coccidia or because they were taken from mom and dad too early.

At least they are educating the buyers????? Ok, who wants to give their babies Pepto Bismol when they have diarrhea? Anybody up to it??? Also, we all should stay away from the crazy people at the boards!!! They only have outdated information anyways. And after so much research everyone has done in the diet field for gliders we should all forget that and feed our babies a slice of apple a day!!!

All of the above is the education that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gives their buyers. Also, don't forget that the only people that have access to that information and wonderful education are (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets buyers. NOBODY else gets to be "educated".

These are just a few points. I will be back later.

PS - I am not sitting and complaining. I go to fairs, trade shows and EDUCATE people on the proper housing and diet that gliders need. And I do that without ever mentioning (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets!!! So, I am not sitting back.

Paula


Paula Donofrio-Williams
USDA and Florida Wildlife Licensed
www.firstcoastsuggies.com
904-707-8278
STOP MILL BREEDERS!
Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: hushpuppy] #793761
06/14/09 04:50 PM
06/14/09 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,753
Florida
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict
LabNGliderMom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,753
Florida
Okay, here is my 2 cents worth-

To say it is NOT (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and it is ALL the breeders they get their gliders from is LUDICROUS...

If they KNOW they are getting SICK or UNDERAGE gliders from their sources, WHY DON"T THEY GET THEIR GLIDERS FROM A BETTER SOURCE?

Well, it just so happens that I KNOW WHY...

They don't change breeders because THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE PUBLIC OR THE GLIDERS...

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets cares about ONE THING and that is MONEY... they send the emails to SUCK YOU IN... they offer their version of "education" to MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT DEALING WITH THEM BECAUSE THAT BRINGS THEM MORE BUSINESS FROM OR THROUGH YOU...

PERIOD.

Before we go saying, "oh, it is all the breeders and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets does try to help people" we need to STOP and ask WHY DO THEY KEEP SELLING SICK AND UNDERAGE GLIDERS IF THEY ARE TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE??

Does GC tell people that gldiers don't smell if they don't eat meat? Does GC tell people gliders with giardia need Pepto Bismol? Does GC tell people gliders NEVER need a vet? Does GC tell people NEVER to talk to ANYONE else about gliders because the whole world except GC is full of uneducated liars? NO, we do NOT do that at GC... but (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets does this and WORSE... and they do it EVERY DAY.

No, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is NOT a mill breeding facility- it is a single person who happens to be a SCAM ARTIST who thinks because he can create a cool looking, seemingly-helpful website for people to go to that this makes it OKAY for him to LIE, CHEAT< and STEAL fromt he public while he sells SICK and UNDERAGE gliders to people-

I am NOT saying they are ALL sick or underage- what I want everyone to understand is that CON ARTISTS are VERY good at looking you int he eye while they lie through their teeth to you... if (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets really wanted to better their public image they would change breeders, clean up their act, and work hand in hand with the forums... they don't do it because MONEY is they GOD they pray to... and you, me, everyone else, and the GLIDERS just REALLY do NOT matter to them AT ALL...

Okay- sorry, folks- getting off my soap box now- I am just SO worked up because it is one thing to sit back and say, "oh, it's just a business and they are doing all they can" and to claim that "no one really knows what is best for them so who are we to judge" but it is something else ENTIRELY to look into the eyes of a sad, disappointed CHILD whose (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets glider died in under 2 weeks and who doesn't understand why the "people who were so nice and seemed so knowledgeable" won't even return her calls or emails...


Julie
Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
The Zoo: Midnight, Severe & Nala - Claude, Pixie, Tippy & Chili - Scout & Soluna, Theo & Deegie

http://hammockhavenpetsplus.com


Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: LabNGliderMom] #793764
06/14/09 05:00 PM
06/14/09 05:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Well said ladies. TY


Anita Rae
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Re: Sun Coast vs. PPP [Re: LabNGliderMom] #793767
06/14/09 05:09 PM
06/14/09 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
I think this is going to be the last time I look at this thread because I get very frustrated. People are complaining about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets selling sick animals or giving bad info...all in the hopes of making money. do you realize that is what makes this a CAPITALISTIC country??? How many people make their living this way? all the way from doctors that give shoddy treatment to drugdealers that sell drugs to kids. and you think you can get (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets to stop by educating THEM? AS LONG AS THERE ARE PEOPLE WILLING TO BUY FROM THEM THEY WILL KEEP SELLING!

It is important to educate the masses not the breeders! I have approached (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and other breeders and asked questions. Most know what they are doing is wrong. but they dont care because they worship the dollar. the few mill breeders that DO care and TRY to do the right thing STILL GET BASHED!
there will be no stopping the cruelty until the general public is educated. perhaps we can get funding to send out flyers to every address. Like the PETA people do. Go to expos, bring your gliders and SHOW people the way they should be cared for. educate one potential customer at a time. and lets stop all this hissing about it.

A girl at my church today went nuts when she saw my glider with me (YES AT CHURCH, EVERY SUNDAY)and she spoke about seeing gliders at an expo and she will be getting one. first I told her they are EXPENSIVE to feed, HIGH MAINTENANCE, and take as much commitment as having a baby for the next 15 years. she said the guy told her they are easy and cheap. I told her HE IS SAYING WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HEAR TO SELL YOU HIS PRODUCT. so then I started to lay out how I feed, clean cages, vet expenses, and the amount of time I spend and lack of sleep I get, in order to have a happy and well bonded and healthy friend. know what she said? "forget it, too much trouble for me" and I thank GOD I was there to educate her. If enough people stop buying from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets because they (the customer) has been properly educated, then they will go out of business.

the moral to my statement....GO TO CHURCH AND BRING YOUR GLIDERS WITH YOU!

ps God has blessed my gliders...they may have a job doing some acting! now there is a chance to educate alot of people. Not by overdramaticizing some aspects of glider ownership the way some do, but just being HONEST!

Last edited by JillMarie; 06/14/09 05:16 PM.

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