Arby is having a hard time walking! His toes are curled up on both his back feet and he isn't using his feet.

I took 2 quick videos of him trying to walk:

http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/Tortiebaby/?action=view&current=Picture18116.flv

http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/Tortiebaby/?action=view&current=Picture18115.flv

He's only 10 weeks old, but he and his brother are both really small. I weighed him a couple days ago and he was only 38g. I was told that they were fine and it was normal for gliders to have small joeys sometimes, but now I'm thinking maybe his size has something to do with it and perhaps they have some type of calcium deficiency or something?

I just called my vet and left a message to see if I can get in as soon as they're open.

I noticed some diarrhea on the outside of their pouch yesterday, so I've been keeping an eye on them, but didn't see any other diarrhea.

I also just got an email today from bulkfoods.com notifying me of a recall on the powdered milk I use for my mealworm bedding. There was salmonella found in one of the samples they sent off to have tested. Do you think that might have anything to do with what's wrong with Arby? If so, I'll bring in a bedding sample and some mealies when I take him to the vet.

I just checked on him and he seems to be walking fine now, but I'm still going to take him to the vet because something was definitely not right.

I also caught his parents mating earlier(yet another weird story since his mom already has 2 joeys 3 weeks IP... :\) so I thought maybe daddy had nipped his foot, but BOTH his feet were clenched shut.

That is very very odd Nicole. Hopefully he was just being a goofy little boy. Either way, you're a great glider mamma taking him to the vet anyways.

I hope little Arby is going to be alright

Pat

I hope nothing is wrong with him. He is such a young little guy. Let us know what the vet says.

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!! I set my alarm for 9am and took a quick nap so I wouldn't fall asleep on the way to the vet(I'm nocturnal) and my alarm never went off AND the vet never called me, even though I left a message and saying that I had an emergency with my glider and asked them to please call me as soon as they were open to see if I could squeeze him in today!!!!! GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

I'm talking with Leyna to see if there's any other exotic vets nearby that are open today. There's an e-vet that treats says they treat gliders in Ft. Wayne, but from what I've heard, they're pretty clueless about gliders. :\

Does anyone have any advice as to what I can do if I'm unable to get him into the vet today? Is there anything I can give him in case it might be HLP? I gave him some yogurt this morning before taking a nap, but couldn't think of anything else. I know he's acting normal now, but HLP is extremely serious and I don't want to take any risks!

Gosh, that is one problem I've never had. Sorry I can't help you out and I'm in AZ so I don't know any one for you. If you take him to the clueless vets you can have them call your normal vet for advice as to what to do. Or you can have them call my vet since AZ in a couple of hours behind I think and ask for advice. If you want his number PM me and I will give it to you.

when you do find a good vet, if they can see the videos it will help with their ability to diagnose the issue- honestly, IMO, it looks like a cramp or muscle spasm. I wouldn't say seizure, but could be neurologic OR musculoskeletal. DEFINITELY a reason for a trip to the vet to get it checked out, though.

I'm so sorry this is happening. Something is definitely not right. I would take him to the clueless vet and have that vet call one of the vets who consult with other vets. From this thread, Before it's too LATE..........do THIS!!!:


I know with myself recently my electrolytes are out of whack, and I've been having horrible cramping (sometimes lasting for hours) in the wee hours where my feet would curl and I couldn't straighten them out. Perhaps until you get him to the vet, you can offer Pedialyte?

Only a vet can properly diagnose and treat. We can only speculate, and the suggestions we offer might cause more harm than good.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Thanks LabNglider. I talked to my friend and she told me of 2 other vets nearby, but one was already closed and the other she said isn't experienced with gliders. So, since Arby seems to be his normal self again, I'm going to just wait and take him to my regular vet on Monday. I'll be bringing my camera to show her the video as well as the mealie samples(just in case...).

My friend thought it might be a muscle spasm as well(like a charlie horse), but it was in BOTH his back legs, so I'm worried it might be something more. Nonetheless, I hope that if there IS something wrong then the vet will be able to find it out.

Nicole, you could wait, but remember that gliders are adept at hiding their pain and illness. When I cramp, it's quite painful. You may want to reconsider when you take him in, especially knowing that gliders will self mutilate to remove the source of pain.

The only vet that is going to be open tomorrow is an e-vet that I've been told by multiple people knows nothing about gliders. :\ I'm not sure if it would be more harm then good to bring him there because they probably won't have a clue what to even look for. That's the only reason I'm waiting to see my normal vet.

I'm separating the boys from their parents tonight so that I can watch them both better and monitor them for odd behavior. I also got some Gatorade for them(I offered pedialyte, but the wouldn't touch the flavorless kind) and also have some yogurt on-hand that they both like, for extra calcium.

I just don't want to risk taking him to a vet that has no clue what they're doing and then end up with either no diagnoses or a misdiagnoses. Not to mention that the e-vet will try and bleed you out the nose for that misdiagnoses! I took our puppy there when she got parvo and it was a very cold and unfriendly experience. I didn't like them at all. :\

when you have held them, have you opened their paws to see how they respond to you doing that?
it looked awful,the poor baby!!!
leg cramps are horrible,& that's what it looked like to me,also.
talk @ ya L8R
josefine

The vet has to do a C&S to test for samonella. It is treated with "flagel" if I remember correctly. Do not let the vet give you an antibiotic other than the Flagel... till the culture comes back. Antibiotics will make it worse if the baby has Samonella.

Have the vet check for a parasitic or bacterial infection. Fecal Float and a Direct Fecal Smear. Nothing seen under the microscope... C&S then needs to be sent off.

URGENT vet Care is needed ASAP. Monitor for Dehydration. Usually oral Calcium is given for the HLP Symptoms.

Good Luck.

Ask vet how to care for other gliders in your glider room for now if illness is contagious.

Any news on these babies?

Anita

i know that you are much more knowledgable than i am when it comes to almost anything,but my first male,rite before he died,had hlp. all he could move was his front legs,the back ones just laid there,this is a site i will never forget,it burned into my heart. this was @ 6:30 in the morning,& i raced him to the vet,he was going to stay there for the day,so the vet could get something going w/him,so i was there @ 7:30. @ lunch time we spoke on the phone,& were making arrangements for him to come home in the evening,& then i was to bring him back the next day,but around 1:30,he called us back to let us know that he had passed.
from then on,my life w/gliders took a steady nose dive,not too abrupt,but bad enough to have lost 4 of these little babies that i wanted to have w/me forever.
i do hope nothing will happen to him,& that everything will fall into place for you-w/him getting better.
josefine

IF this is HLP, it is sudden onset which would suggest it a secondary symptom of an infection or parasite. (as opposed to dietary) Please make sure the vet checks for these things to get at the root of the problems.

It could be HLP, secondary to a chemical disorder, chemical deficiency (like HLP/calcium), as a baby, this is really likely and it CAN present this way, diarrhea could contribute to the malnutrition to trigger it, or a primary infection such as meningitis...whatever it is is neurological...and do believe me when I say HLP IS a neurological condition-without calcium the cells and nerves cannot communicate or function properly-ultimately the heart and lungs give out from the inability to receive messages from the brain, which is how HLP kills, and how it affects the ability of muscles to work. Contraction of the extremeties (ie feet) is really suggestive of a neurological component regardless of cause-and the cause needs to be found for a treatment. Bacterial or parasitical infections can be the primary cause of a secondary HLP presentation, or something that affects the brain or spinal column, be it injury or disease. Because of the young age/small size of the glider, bloodwork other than a basic count would be difficult to impossible, but would recommend the vet do what they can to get a CBC (complete blood count, not a chemistry-which would require more blood than this glider can likely stand to lose), and look at calcium and sugar levels. Hope your vet can find the underlying cause, and your little one gets better.

Both babies are underweight and over nine weeks oop. Being 38 grams for one and the other baby being lighter.

This one baby appears to be bloated in the movie clip and another bad sign of a severe illnes is the tail being absolutely straight like a board and the baby also has loose stools. HlP is a secondary problem as Nicole feeds the HPW.

This baby is to be my little boy in a few weeks and it pains me to know he needs to be seen by a vet ASAP. Monday just seems soooooo far away.

God be with you Little One.

I weighed Arby and he's gained 4g in the last 3 days, so that's a good sign.

I'm going to call the 2 other vets nearby tomorrow. Leyna said that one of them(the non e-vet) has a vet that will sometimes come in if there's an emergency, so maybe I can get him to see Arby. She said he's not very knowledgeable with gliders, but I think he'd probably be better then the e-vet since I've only heard bad things about them.

Honestly, I'm seriously considering driving all the way to IL to see my vet over there. :\ They're open on Sundays and are a walk-in vet and he's always been great with my gliders. It's a 4/5 hour drive, but hubby's been wanting to visit his family anyways so now's as good a time as every. I'll talk to him about it...

Anyways...

Arby is doing fine, acting like nothing even happened. When hubby went to get him out he was running in the wheel and I played with him for a little while and he seemed normal. I'll get another video of him. I didn't notice any bloating, but I'll go double-check.

I just took these:

http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/Tortiebaby/other/?action=view&current=Picture18122.flv

http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/Tortiebaby/other/?action=view&current=Picture18123.flv

Judie, I checked and he's not bloated at all.

The vet in IL I used to go to was called Elmhurst Animal Care Center. The vet's name was Dr. Pullins.

After calling around and then calling the e-vet numbers on the vets' answering machines I finally got forwarded to a vet in Novi, MI that treats exotics and always has an exotic vet on-call. However, at this point, I'm thinking it'd probably just be better to wait the few more hours and go to my normal vet. Arby acting perfectly normal and walking normal and be his normal troublesome self(as you can see by him being a little booger and running under the desk so I couldn't get a video, lol). I'm starting to think that maybe the cramp-theory was right.

However, one of the gliders in the cage had diarrhea too and that's not going to be caused from a cramp, so, the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I might just bring the whole family, just in case.

Hopefully nothing serious is wrong, so please keep them all in your thoughts/prayers.

More Prayers going out!!!!

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

Think about possible environmental toxins too. I can recall two cases of gliders clenching their hands and both seemed to be toxin related (to toys in their environment). Have you given the family any new toys lately? I agree, he has more going on than just the feet (since he seems to be underweight and having diarrhea as well) but I thought it worth mentioning, just in case.

I hope he starts improving soon, Nicole!

Gretchen, I haven't given them anything new, but we DID just powerwash all the cages a couple days before and washed their bedding. Perhaps there was something on the cage from outside? None of the other gliders have acted weird lately though.

Okay, well, this is NOT my day today...

I called my normal vet and found out the Dr. Renae(the vet that treats exotics) was on vacation until next monday. I called the vet they referred me to in Bryan and their exotic vet was also out of town(until Friday). So, I called the vet they gave me the # to in Toledo and they said they don't treat sugar gliders. Soooo...I called they number that the Toledo vet gave me and there was no answer and the machine said that it wasn't "business hours"(that's weird!).

Long story short, I googled and googled and called and called until I eventually came across this site: http://www.exoticdvm.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=avixProducts.vetLocator&product_id=62&

I called the vet they had listed in Ft. Wayne with a heavy heart, thinking it would ust be another disappointment. However, much to my surprise, they were open, treat sugar gliders, AND their exotic vet is on call! Woot! So, I'm just waiting for my laundry to get dry and then I'll be out the door. Hopefully they know what they're doing because, at this point, I haven't got any other options. :\

Phew!

Best of luck for good news!!! Prayers being sent!!!

I certainly hope you get some answers soon! Thanks for keeping us all posted.

i sure hope that the next time you post,there will be positive things being said. it is one horrible nitemare when we don't know what is wrong,& when we can't do anything to help our babies!!!!!
talk @ ya L8R

Okay. Good news and bad news!

Good news: I was able to get Arby to the vet and the vet said he looked healthy(aside from being so small). He also said that he doesn't think the boys' size is a genetic issue since BOTH boys are tiny(he said that genetic issues wouldn't normally present themselves in the exact same way with both babies at the same time. If it was genetic then the odds would be that only ONE joey would be tiny.).

Bad news: The exam was inconclusive because he said Arby was too small to get blood from or to do an x-ray on(he said he could TRY and do and x-ray, but his opinion was that he didn't think that the issue was something that would show on an x-ray and that even if it was something such as a fractured bone, that it'd be too tiny to even show up on the x-ray. He also thought that just the experience of having to be put under for the x-ray might stress out Arby too much. To top the cake, neither Arby nor Chief wanted to give a fecal sample(he tried stimulating them a little, but it didn't work). They ALWAYS poop on me, but this time they were stubborn.

So, in the end, he said to just keep an eye on them both for anything unusual, especially them acting slower then usual or showing any signs of neurological issues. He also wants me to weigh them each day to make sure they're gaining weight steadily.

I called around and found another vet a little closer that said they'd check a fecal sample if I could get Arby to give me one. He still had some runny poo last night, so I know something's still wrong. :\

Conclusion: there IS no conclusion. UGH!

I wish my vet weren't on vacation because I think she'd know what to do to figure out what is wrong with my little man.