After speaking with Dr.Tristan today, this is what he would like for me to put out there for him.

Dr. Tristan has been in contact with Dr. Wright in Arizona and UCDavis in regards to a few recent cases of liver disease/tumors in gliders. To investigate the condition more in depth, they are looking for liver biopsies and liver samples from gliders with AND without liver disease. If you want to see if you have a glider that may be able to qualify for the study, please contact Dr. Tristan at 361-994-1145. Information on other gliders will not be discussed until the projects completion.

Wow, I am so glad that people are working on this. The liver problems really are becoming a growing, silent epidemic in sugar gliders. It's great that somebody is willing to study it.

I will be giving this info to my vet and also saving a copy. My gliders are currently in good health, but if they were to pass on, I would want them to be involved in the study if it's still ongoing. I think this work is so important.

Can you ask the vets more about how the gliders would need to be preserved, and then post here? Really, we are unlikely to get gliders that could be part of the study unless people have this information in advance and have it in mind. Not to be morbid, but bodies start to deteriorate quickly after death, and by the time a phone call or email is returned, it might be too late to then use the glider in the study. If there is a record of what to do before hand, then a glider owner could properly preserve their glider so it could be part of the study.

Again, sorry to be graphic, but I know it can be a tricky issue with necropsies. By the time many people decide they want a necropsy, the body is too far gone to make accurate determinations from the necropsy...it's something we need to educate people about in advance.

Thanks again for spreading the word

Jen, actually that is a very important point. It was noted once before, but can never be noted too many times:

When you loose a glider, if it is possible, please place your glider in a ziplock baggie and get it to your vet as soon as possible for a necropsy.

If it is possible to get your glider in within 12 hours of death for a necropsy, you will be able to get a much better report, however, you do have up to 24 hours.

If you find the glider and you know it will be several hours prior to getting them to a vet, please place your glider in the refridgerator, NOT THE FREEZER. Keep it in there until you are able to transport it to your vet.

Jen, I will ask Tristan exactly what he would be needing and post it here.

It is graphic and it is VERY hard to deal with, however, having a necropsy done is VERY IMPORTANT on finding answers to help the gliders that are still living.

I can only pray the community is willing to help in any way they can.

If someone says they can not afford a necropsy, they need to get in touch with the Sugar Glider Research Group immediately as they do have a program to help in that area.

Pesta lost her battle with cancer yesterday. I had to teach a class and I could not find my last syringe to give her some sub-Q fluids before I left, and I just had a poor general impression about her so I dropped her off at a secondary vet that I use who is not as good as my regular, but I trust them to be competent and they are alot closer to where I live. I rushed over there with quick instructions and ran off to teach. During the class they called me to tell me that she had gone into cardiac arrest, but they had revived her and she was alert and resting. By the time I got there about 2 hr later she had died. I had my regular vet do the necropsy and he said that all was healing well and the internal bleeding had completly stopped, but he thinks her liver was just too involved. I feel bad for putting her thru so much only to die before getting an oportunity to try chemo and all the herbs. Good bye my sweet Pesta. Mean while Geo began chemo yesterday and I was suprised that he did not mind the drug at all. Took it like a real tropper. I hope he does not lose his hair. It would be kinda funny to have a naked glider though. We dropped the milk thistle because it did not seem to work and could interfere with the chemo. I'm glad of that because Geo really hated the milk thistle no matter what I mixed it with. I took three more gliders in: Lolly, FS and Kazi. They have had mild liver enzyme changes just a couple of weeks ago, but the cancer is so fast that I want to know what is going on right now. We are discussing the possibility of using chemo profolactively in order to perhaps arrest the development of the disease hopefully before it becomes the true cancer or at lease before it affect the organs. I just don't think we have the time to wait to see if the herbs alone will help...I really don't want to lose anymore sweeties.

The chemo drug we are trying is cyclophosphamide plus the Wei Qi Booster, Max Formula and Liver Happy

The Dr at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute is Dr. DeRisi. I looked at some of the web stuff. I guess he is head of the DeRisi Lab. There is a bunch of articles on cancer put out by the DeRisi labs there. He appears to be quite a knowledgeable and busy gentleman. (derisilab.ucsf.edu) In reference to preserving, if your glider dies at home keep him/her on ice, but not frozen and get them to the vet ASAP if not STAT.

Ive been in the situation of dealing with research labs and experimental drugs before when I was trying to find a drug to cure or at least slow the progression of my Mom's ALS. I really did not think I would find myself involved again and in an illness so different. I can not emphasize the importance of participation in this study, not just for the gliders but people as well. Liver Cancer is a prevalent disease in people. I personally know 4 people, 2 dead and 2 transplants. Who knows, God forbid, but some day it may be myself or one of you. And would it not be nice to take medicine to treat the problem and not have to go thru a transplant(if you were fortunate enough to get one) and all the complications of that business. Because viruses due cause cancer, i.e. HPV which is a well known fact, its also thought to be the cause of arthritis, heart disease, and may more diseases, therefore it seems resonable that liver cancer, which is prevalent may also be caused by viruses. Which many researcher do believe. Right now, and I'm not positive on the number I asked my brother who is on the road right now and whose wife if a liver transplant pt. and he thinks the known number of people waiting for transplants is 1800. It is probably higher, but even so many of those will not get thier desired transplant before they die.

I can not emphasize enough how important it is to participate in drug studies when you are in a postition to do so. I don't know, maybe you really have to go thru the experiance and watch the people and animals you love suffer only to die a misirable death to truly understand the need for research, especially when one is just dropped at your door step. I besiege you, please help our gliders and our loved ones by participating if you are in the miserable postition to do so. I mean just think, if this pans out and new insight is gained about liver cancer your gliders death or illness was not invain. Their lives would not just be solely our own personal sarrow and memories. Heck they would be little super heros gliding to save man and glider alike. Lets make our little gliders heros - we need more heros

I am so sorry to read about Pesta and I'll pray for Geo -

Sometimes life is tough and we just have to take the good with the bad - but you seem to be having nothing but bad -

I'm sure he'll be okay - he needs to stay with you and be loving and caring - since Pesta went "Over the Rainbow Bridge"

RIP sweet Pesta

Sue
owned by &
mom to

I am sorry to read that little Pesta lost her battle with Cancer. I hope that Geo does good on Chemo.

Glide Free little Pesta.

Deepest Sympathy,

(((((HUGS))))) so sorry you are going through this.

Thank you for posting this. 2 of my 3 gliders just died from an unknown liver disease. This is so important!! I have forwarded this information to my vet.

I am so very sorry
Glide free little Pesta. I hope all goes well with Geo

Pat

Little Lolly(she only weighs 72) has exploratory surgery today. She had blood work 3 weeks ago and the week following the blood work I wanted her to have more blood drawn. I just had a bad feeling about her, but they said that she just had it done and that it was too soon. Well I took her in again after Pesta died and they did the blood work and she had elevated liver enzymes, the bile acids had not shot up yet, but the liver enzymes precede the bile acids so.....off to exploratory surgery she went. Hopefully the vet can remove the cancer before it destroys the liver and with chemo we can save her. I've talked to the oncologist when I took Geo and Pesta in about treating the gliders with chemo without going to surgery since we know what the progression of the diesease is like. Why not treat them before the tissue damage is done and the cancer is ramped and just avoid major surgery. She said she had not heard of that being done, but did not rule it out. I called her today to press her on the subject, but I've yet to hear back. I left her a message on monday because I was thinking about the situation, its never far from my mind, you don't get and die of the same cancer at the same time as your parent does! The probablity is low for one occurence, but for multiples? No. The oncologist said that she also believed that it was an outside influence that led to the development of the cancer, but that there is a genetic suseptablity factor as well. She believes as does my regular vet, Dr. Wright, that the cage wire is most likely the cause of the toxic exposure. The big cages are going untill I find stainless steele! Geo seems to be doing OK. He got the e-collar off yesterday and I know he is happy about that. The tumor regrew in about a month so we will see what the blood work shows the friday after next. I'm praying.

Lolly survived the surgery and her gallbladder looked competely normal. He took it out anyways. Her liver had spots in a few areas and he took samples to send to the path lab and for the cancer research over at Howard Hughes Medical Institute. Maybe the problem arises directly from the liver and not the gallbladder. The gallbladder involvment is secondary. That would back the idea that the culprit is a toxins of some sort,or possibly a virus and not merely a genetic problem.
The oncologist does not want any of the chemo drugs given to the others until Geo's blood work is taken again because she does not know if the gliders will have an unforseen side effect that is harmful in itself.

I'm so sorry for you and your little babies! I'm glad Lolly came through this one!

What actual cage do you have, that they are worried about the wire? How scarey!!!

We are praying for Lolly

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

There are a lot of potential toxins in the environment, and I agree with your idea that if everyone is sick at once, they were probably all exposed to the same toxin. I hope that Geo keeps getting better and that Lolly can pull through this as well.

Much to my distress both Kazi and FS died 3 and 2 days following surgery and the necropsies really did not reveal why. I think back just the day before surgery and remember FS doing the bite and hiny on my shoulder (when they repeatedly bite something and their back end bounces up and down and side to side) and little Kazi raising her nose up for me to give her a kiss which was a habit of her's and then I remember how miserable they were after surgery, not so much the first day, but definately the second. When they died I woundered if I should have put them through the experiance at all. And it hurts to remember them with the "I don't feel good" look. I wish I could erase it from my mind,but it is etched on my heart. It is a very personal decision, but even though it hurts....termendously, I am glad I gave them the chance to overcome this stupid and horrible illness. For me personally if I had not tried and they just died,because for sure they would have, perhaps even a worse death, I would have looked back and questioned and kick myself wondering if I had tried surgery would they be alive today? That for me would have been more tormenting then knowing that I tried and failed. I've lost 6 gliders to this disease, Kazi, FS, Pip, Pesta, Token and Ponce de Leon. 4 have been just in the last what, 2 months. I can't stop wondering why are my gliders being taken from me? Especially when I've tried so hard to ensure the physical health and psychological well being. God be with every one of you haveing problems with your glider's health or injuries.
And I can not plead more stongly that if you are wondering, questioning your glider's health please, please just dish out the money and take it to the vet.

I'm so sorry for your loss but it sounds like you did everything you could. You can't blame yourself. I hope the ones you still have can stay healthy. {HUGS}

Personally I think you did the best thing to at least try. I lost a glider to a liver tumor almost two years ago and sometimes I miss her terribly. I know how it hurts but as owners I feel we need to try every angle to help our little ones your babies know they were loved and I hope that you realize that they understand now that you tried all you could do prayers and thoughts are with you through this hard time.

THE INFORMATION PROVIDED HERE IS NOT FOR SELF DIAGNOSIS OF YOUR SUGAR GLIDERS PROBLEM IT IS INTENDED TO ASSIST IN YOUR DICISION TO TAKE YOUR GLIDER TO THE vet AND TO HELP YOU IF YOU GET STUCK GOING TO AN INEXPERIANCED vet. The zoo path lab my vets ues have done a little study which revealed this sad little fact gliders have a suseptibility to liver cancer. Recently there was a small mammal vet get together in which gliders were discussed amongst a group of them and they, via experiance have noted a similar finding. This is what I am personally dealing with, with my gliders. I just lost Tiki a couple of days ago and she makes the death toll 7. With these !#***#^@%$@ mill breeders I suspect the occurance of liver disease in gliders will only increase.
What to watch for:
1.weight loss dispite over feeding
2. Pale nose, gums or feet
3. fatique They may just be hanging
there on the cage looking kinda
lost especially after some, even
minor exertion or perhaps just
less active than they use to be
4. If you ask "hey are you OK"
because you have a nonspecific
general impression that something
is not right, but you don't know
what.
These symptoms can be subtle and slowly progressive or wham bam and they are dead. On blood examination they may have a low Packed Cell Volume count (this in my gliders seems to be the must seriously significant i.e. all that initially showed up with low PCV have died.) There liver enzymes may be elevated and/or their bile acids. Always have both checked especially if a low PCV is found. Be aware of fluid forming in the lungs (Pulmonary Edema) a noise can be noted in their breathing or with a pedicatic stethescope. Also be aware of Plueral Effusion (fluid around the lungs) that may not necessarily be auditable. If your glider is having a sudden breathing problem do not let the vet assume it is just due to a low PCV it may be Plueral Effusion especially if no lung noises are noted. Tiki died because I did not ask the vet at the late night hospital to do a chest xray despite the fact that I wanted to especially when she listened to her and did not hear lung noises despite her severe breathing difficulty. I'm so angry at myself because I know this! 4 days of virtually no sleep and I doubted myself. AHHHHHHH! If she had had an xray and been tapped for the fluids she may have survived to be treated with the chemo and maybe just maybe survived.

Thank you for this info Kitty.
I am so very sorry to hear you lost Tiki

Pat