Some of you have been following Spencers story the past few weeks on another board. I feel there is power in numbers. Bottom line something is wrong with his cloaca. He will be railroaded to the glider tree Saturday! His appt with Dr. Fronefeld in Sugarland is Monday at 10:30. Please lets all pray the Lord guides Dr. Fronefelds instruments/diagnostics/hand/mind and the problem is found! We also need to pray for Spencers other Mother who will be caring for him while at the glider tree. I thank God for her and her hubby! Lets face it there is just no quality of life uncomfortable in an ecollar 90 percent of the time.

I am already sad he is leaving but I know it must be this way as I have been fighting this with him since March and it is worsening.

I also pray God blesses those involved in railroding my boy.................he has the sweetest soul and most loving eyes.

Cora ... many many hugs and positive energy coming your way!!

My heart sank when I saw this subject
I pray that Spencer Man is going to be just perfect.
Many, many, prayers for you and Spencer Cora, and Spencers "Other Mother"

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

I haven't stopped praying for Spencer and I certainly won't now.

You know he will be in great hands. I'll also pray that the separation is not too hard on you, Cora.

I really feel like there will be some answers for sweet Spencer in the near future!

Prayers for Spencer -
Hugs for Cora

I will say a special prayer tonight for Spencer

Sue
owned by &
mom to

Positive energy following Spencer all the way to the doc and his new temporary home...
Hugs to you Cora, when will you get a break? (instead of a broken heart?)

Aww, poor Spencer. Cora, you KNOW that he is going to be in the best and most loving hands while he is away from you. There isn't anything that they won't do for gliders and Spencer will be so well cared for. My prayers that they get "it" figured out quickly and Spencer can come home to you very soon.

You & Spencer and everyone involved are in my thoughts & prayers.

Good thoughts and prayers coming your way. I hope they are able to find the cause of Spencers SMing.

Prayers Prayers and more Prayers!

Good thoughts and prayers are on the way Cora.. hang in there.

Awww Cora I am so sorry to hear this I know you will miss him so much. Thoughts and prayers going your way. I know he will get the best care and love while he is away from you!! Maybe I can stop in and see him while he is down here.

OMG, that scared me! I saw this post and clicked on it and it went to tootles post above first, which starts out "I am so sorry to hear this and know you will miss him" and I thought the worst!

I was thinking about you and Spencer and praying for him yesterday when I was out and about. Will continue to do so.

oh all this positive energy is GOOD!!!! However I am still sad, selfish I suppose. He will be railroaded in the morning. Trigger, I am gonna be a mess so might as well get ready for that girl! gonna take some pics tonight.

Many prayers and best wishes go out to you and sweet Spencer!

He is safe and sound at the glider tree. If anyone can pull him out of this its Mary and Dr. Fronefeld and of course Charlie.............behind the scenes!
Here are some pics I took last night after his bath:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3623.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3617.jpg

cloaca still swollen:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3619.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3621.jpg

hes pottying and yes thats Jimmy Kimmel on TV..LOL

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3622.jpg

And then in the collar...........Amanda and I made the worst collar ever.......we musta been tired:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3624.jpg

Even sick Spencer is still so photogenic!

In our thoughts

Spencer is just such a doll. Bless his heart for being such a wonderful baby even when he's not feeling good. Hoping & praying for some good news really soon. Hang in there Cora. Tell Mary to give him a few extra kisses & mealies from me.

Trigger you and Michael..........well I just cant thank you enough...and Lorna........and to those of you who have called me and TMd me.........................you all are the reason I am so strong today..................Thank You all!!!! (((((HUGS)))))

Hang in there, Cora. We're all cheering for your Spencer.

Mary and Charlie are so caring for the gliders they have. Your Spencer is in very good hands.

I know it's hard when our babies are sick. hang in there Cora, thoughts and prayers for you and Spencer.

You and Spencer are in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs too!

Thoughts are with you and your little one.

Praying for Spencer! I hope that all turns out alright for him!

we all hope and pray that spencer will be okay.
he is the most beautiful lion face glider i have seen, i
checked out your website and seen him in his wheel.
i hope he comes back healthy and soon.

regards,
nancy in detroit

He went to the vet today. The vet Discontinued the gabrapentin as it wasnt working anyway. He put him on Metacam and prozac for "mutilating behavior". He said to look in his cloaca he would have to make a whole. He did some tests, not sure what. Mary could probably tell you better than me. I think she is going to take him to another vet for a second opinion....*sigh*

Just checking on updates. Tell Mary to give him more kisses & mealies.

Spencer and Mary have a good relationship. I am sure he is getting all the mealies he wants and she is getting "nosies" and Spencer lovin!

OK Mary called the vet bright and early and was able to get Spencer scheduled for an oral barium test...............now we are getting somewhere. They found Travis problem with that test so I am hoping they find Spencers! Keep all crossables crossed please!

OK Mary called the vet bright and early and was able to get Spencer scheduled for an oral barium test...............now we are getting somewhere. They found Travis problem with that test so I am hoping they find Spencers! Keep all crossables crossed please!

They are all crossed and then some Cora

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

I beleive tomorrows procedure will be on disc. If so I will share with all when I get it..............I just so want the doc to find out whats wrong with my Spenny! I miss him soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much!

I hope they figure it out Cora

hoping for the best with spencer.


regards,
nancy in detroit

No abnormalities noted with the oral barium test today.

Sending and prayers your way. Don't despair! It may have to be like Edison with his light bulb. You are finding at least one more possibility to rule out.

Dang it, Cora! I was so hoping you would get an answer! I'm still praying for you and Spence.

well you know Mary is not through......... there is another test scheduled tuesday!!

She never gives up, you have a great second momma there! I just love her, especially when there's an issue.

Sending prayers for Spencer Cora and tons of HUGS

Well the "last ditch effort" tests were done yesterday. The vet looked in his cloaca with a scope and did a biopsy of the swollen area which has gone down significantly. Everything is fine physically with this boy. He has been good lately and not going after himself as much. He was taken off the gabrapentin which was severely affecting his appetite. He gets metacam if he starts to go after himself and thats it. He is eating well and doing well at this time. Course he will never be able to be trusted alone without his collar nor will he and Sugar ever get to be together again as he is too rough with the collar and hits her in the face with it and causes her mouth to bleed. Wonder if thats what started her dental issues. Do I leave him with Mary or do I bring him here and hope he does not go after himself while I am driving and cant pull over or trying to manage a dying pt. Cause I usually dont put the collar on him when he is on me. Well Now I am crying so just pray I do the right thing.

Oh Cora, I know your poor heart is breaking even having to THINK about not bringing Spenny home. He is such a sweet boy, I got to love on him at the SGR and he is such a gorgeous lump of glider love!!!

My thoughts are with you and Spencer and we are hoping for a stroke of genius and some good news soon!

...I'll tell you what to do...you get your tush down here and get your boy. We both love him but your his mama and while he's a sweetheart here with me...his true bond is with you. Let him be with you...and I'll be here if he goes through a bad time again.

Maybe over a period of time what ever it is will show up and the tests can be run to see. Neither one of us is ever going to give up on him.

He needs you Cora and I love both of you...yesterday we were both feeling down. But...we're both tough and
we both want what Spencer needs.

Mary

That's the Mary we all love so much!

Answers will come for him --eventually. Too many of us pulling for him and praying for him for there not to be a breakthrough at some point. Sure am sorry the little guy has to go through all this, though.

...Thank ya Val...I luv ya toooo


Mary

yes maam.................see ya saturday!

My prayers are still with you & Spence

Well, that is good news, I guess...Your baby is coming home, so that's good! And, answers will come.

I wish I was closer Cora so I could give you a big
The Spencer Man . I hope he just behaves himself.
I know the stress all too well.
Give him kisses for me please. You are so lucky to have Mary to help you

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

I agree with this statement completely and Cora, when times get tough, please remember that there are many standing behind you and Spencer!!!!

Hugs and much love to you and Spencer!!!!

Thank You all!!
Spencer finally showed Mary how he wrangles out of that ecollar and goes after himself...................thankfully her and Charlie were up............................do these people ever sleep??? LOL just kidding
He got himself a little red and a scant amount of blood. The metacam really did not do much for him. he did it again about 3 hours later so she took him to the vet and he will be getting Prozac daily, A numbing mixture like lidacain mixed with some other stuff to numb his [censored] as needed...........LOL , and torb as needed. Still planning to go to Houston Saturday...............................

*numb his bottom

I'm so sorry to hear this Cora, I wish someone could tell you whats wrong with you little man. I'll keep you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Cora I am so sorry for Spencer. Have you tried the Ecollar with the snaps. Cadbury has been in his collar for over a month and cannot get out of it. He has it set on the second snap. I set it on the first snap and he wiggled out in five min, and I thought the second snap would be way too tight. He is fed in a bird trough feeder and I mound veggies and fruits in a small crock that is heavy that the collar can fit around. I do not have to hand feed him at all. If you haven't ordered one you might = they are $8.00. I am getting ready to order some more because they do get dirty.

Yes, I have tried them. 90% percent of the time he cant get out of it.............no collar is full proof lol. And as Spencers weight changes and with that LIon neck he has well............

very difficult!! I so appreciate the support from you all!! Caring for a mutilator is very difficult but it is easier knowing y'all are hear when I am defeated and dont think i can go another day..................but of course I CAN.................He is my baby!

Yesterday morning I had Spencer in one hand knowing I had to do something fast. I grabbed to orajel and put it on there to numb it...it did and he settled down quick...it lasts three hours.
We headed for the vet...I told fronefield what I did. He said he had never thought about that and began researching. He said I did the right thing...but gave me a med that would last longer than three hours...it lasts eight hours.
He started it this morning again...I numbed his tush and fed him some mealies and he's sleeping fine without the collar. I have him on me just in case.
We are not giving up on him...Fronefield said there were diffrent meds to try and we would do this until we found the right one...we're leaning toward the angry nerve right now.

Mary

good job Mary!!!

OMG, Cora & Mary I am so excited. This is a small breakthrough. I know it isn't a cure but the thoguht that Spencer can spend hours pain free is wonderful.

Its definitely something!!! along with the prozac..............we will just have to see..............

Spenny is work in progress..............

Got him home. Just now getting a chance to update. He is currently up playing in his soft pop up house full of soft toys. I initial dosed the prozac concoction at 8 so I have been watching him close for side effects. He is OK so far. Wehad a long day. he started trying to mutilate before we left Marys so we fixed him up in the collar and meds. that was about 11:30am. at about 6:30pm he was geting ancy and trying to get at himself with the collar on..................what a contortionist he is.........LOL. So we pulled over and I numbed his tush and gave him a little torb. at 11pm he was trying to get at himself again................again I numbed him with oragel this time.....................works better than the lidacaine today but doesnt last as long but I have a big tube of it...............LOL
He has been through a lot. the goal now is to get his little tush healed up again and see if the prozac is going to work................it will take 4 to 6 weeks for optimum effect.

Oh and he left at 120 grams and came home 2 weeks later at 120 grams...............I know Mary stuffed him so at least he did not loose weight.

Tell Spencer I have faith, I will continue praying for him & tell him if he is a good boy I will bring him a bowl full of mealies all for him at our next gathering.

Give him extra kisses from me.

I dont know if anyone is interested in seeing the oral barium pics (4)..............if you are you can just tell me and I can email them to you but I cannot figure out how to post them here. It shows physically he is normal.

Cora, spoke with Bourbon by phone this morning re your Spencer...post some NEW pics please...and good quality...it may take a few dozen to get a few good ones, but go for it....

wow Jen I did not see this I will post some much later tonight I promise!

So do you want a sugarcoated update or do you wanna know how he really is?? I will try to do a little of both. As long as he is pigging out on mealies he does not try to go after himself. soon as the mealies run out he is going after himself again. now he will sleep most of the day-10 to 15 hours in the bonding pouch.......I have to give him torb at 8, 4 and 1. The oragel goes on every 3to6 hours as needed. then there is the prozac he gets twice a day. The lidacain, mercain, sodium bicarbonate liquid for his cloaca does NOT work 8 hours, more like 4. The torb works about 8 hours. I am scared to give the metcam everyday.......................I know Dr. Fronefeld insists that it is safe...........................too many horror stories about it. Right now the hardest times I am having keeping him comfortable is at night...................we are up til 2 to 3 am most nights with every 2 hour checks in between. His cloaca is swollen but will go down and swell back up within the course of the day! I just want my Spenny back! ...............

Cora I'm still praying for him to get through this. I can't even imagine what you are going through right now.

ok here are some pics when i brought him home Saturday:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3633.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3634.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3635.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3638.jpg

tonight........swollen but no longer with broken skin and he was marking me so he is wet

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3650.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3651.jpg

Oh the Spencer Man
Hugs to you too Cora

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

this morning I was letting Spenny eat his worms 30 minutes after his pain and prozac meds..............he has been doing well last few days so hes in my lap eating, gave him a little wash off and he began grooming himself in his bag on me.................in 2 seconds he opened himself back up.............................2 seconds...............got him cleaned up and numb............just sitting here crying .............................cant beleive it....................he hasnt even been trying to rub his bottom on anything lately...................2 seconds

So sorry Cora...don't know what to say other than big hugs....

I am so sorry to hear this Cora. I have sent you a PM that I hope will be of some help. Something has to help the Spencerman
Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

Spencer has not gotten to himself again but if collar is off my eyes dont leave him. He ate his scrambled egg and did some grooming before getting that look about him and he was getting antsy....................I redirected him but he soon started tring to get to his cloaca again. So the collar is back on. He had his meds an hour or so ago. The Prozac is constipating him so have had to get some lactulose going. Robaxin starts tomorrow............I figure if I understand it correctly the torb acts quickly for pain but the pain releiver does not last long but it works as a muscle relaxer for 8 hours..................so why not try a muscle relaxer as opposed to torb twice a day and metacam once a day????? My vet said Ok and had a local pharmacy compound it for Spencer.............grape flavored even. He weighs 124 grams. Just taking it one day at a time!!

Thinking of Spencer, this must be a difficult time for you.

Cora please give that boy kisses from me, Boo-Boo, and BJ
to you too.
You both are always in "Our" prayers.
Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

quick update......got some pics too but in a hurry right now! The robaxin (muscle relaxer)seems to be doing the trick. he is not requiring Torb near as much............once a day........ sat not at all. I am still giving the prozac which constipates him. I also give lactulose three times a day for that! The new thing is it looks like he has hemorrhoids (like small pink buddy type tissue) when he defacates. I hope if I can get his stools soft enough It will stop. I apply prep h after he poos. His bottom is healed..........he has been grooming and sleeping in my bra for a couple hours without the collar. He just has a nicer look in his eye these days acts more comfortable. He really looks good and is eating too!!!

Go Spennie! Glad things are looking a little better for him!! Keep up the great work and patience with him!

Yeah!!! That's great news!!! Keep up the good work Spencer!!!

heres some pics from last night:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3668.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3669.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3670.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3671.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3673.jpg

doesnt he look good!! never underestimate the power of prayer and sheer determination!

Now there is a happier looking Spencer man! Thanks for the pic's Cora. Makes me so happy for the both of you

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

Yay Cora that is wonderful to hear!!

Oh Cora, he looks so much better!!! Go Spencer!!!

There isn't a single DAY that doesn't go by without me thinking of you both...and the news of MAYBE JUST MAYBE having the formula figured out for him is FAN-TASTIC!

Keep it up, lotsa hugs from the Hoosier State to both of you!

thank you all so much!

My Boy:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3726.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3727.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_3728.jpg

Took him off the prozac................made him crabby and mean.........did not help the mutilation "behavior" (whatever)

He is only getting Robaxin at this time.

Awe Spencer Man. I wish I could send a Glider Whisperer your way and make you all better

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

I was just talking about this little man to Mary...

I'm working on a special something something that I designed with Spencer in mind. I'll fill you in on the details here in a little bit...

me too Denise, talked with Mary that is......................that is awesome of you to take on trying to create something like that for our e-collard gliders!

Yeah, she told me that she let "the cat outta the bag" already...

I have hers all made up & on its way to her...yours is at least cut out & ready to hit the sewing machine SOON. Hope you don't mind that I'm choosing a "cutesy" material for yours...Littlest Pet Shop with big-eyed critters (hmmm, that kinda describes our fuzzy kids, don't it?) I'm also trying to keep in mind that the Lone Star State is still "suffering" from 70+ degree weather (whereas we're turning on our furnace because the night temp's have ALREADY dropped to the 30's) so I'm using as LIGHTWEIGHT of material as I can get away with & still have the finished product maintain SOME kind of shape.

I need your addy though...if you can PM it to me, please. A second box will be heading out to Texas by Monday (I'm hoping). Oh, I also REQUIRE an honest, straightforward critique of how it works for you & Spencer. This is just a starting point of a concept...let's see how far it glides.

well its us again........................wish I had better news but I dont. I put Spen back on the prozac cause every time I take the collar off (at least once a day) he makes his groomer claws bleed...................idk what to do with that boy!

Dang Cora, I am so sorry to hear this
I wish we could get inside Mr. Spencers head to see what is going on

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

I'm so sorry your poor baby is going through this! Sending prayers and good thoughts your way.

Gosh Cora, I guess there is another thread about your little man, but what do you mean about his groomer claws bleeding?
Poor little guy, just sit him down and tell him to listen hear.
Stop doing this or you will live the rest of your lift in a collar. poor little guy, to bad animals don't understand what they are doing only hurts themselves.
If I can help just let me know.

OK so 2 weeks after restarting the prozac things seem to be a little better. I can leave the collar off for an hour or 2 with eyes on my prize He also remains on the Robaxin. He is up to 132 grams. You can see an updated photo of him that I entered in photo of the week! Thanks so much for your thoughts and prayers of my Spencer!

I'm glad things are looking up Cora. I'll still keep him in my prayers.

thanks Virginia! at least hes manageable right now!

Cora, I'm really out of the loop on this stuff...can you send me a summary email of his issues at shadowdancersxfile9@yahoo.com? I may have a meds suggestion for you you may not have tried. And you know my prayers are always with your little ones!

Are you all still hoping and praying??? Spencer has his "good" and "bad" weeks, days ................this past week has been especially rough, just like he was when I sent him to Marys the last time. He had a vet visit today, waste of my time..............except I did get my first wellness exam form filled out by the vet (thanks Val I will send you a copy) except for the fecal part.........couldnt get a poo sample, any other time hed be pooing everywhere....LOL I will stop by Thursday and see if I can get that part done!!! So I am to continue symptom management since he had a reaction to the prozac and neurontin.................I still say its something inside upper 6 oclock area of cloaca aggrevating him cause thats what he goes for with his sharp teeth.............trying to get inside that area. The magnet stuck to his staple on his collar (quit laughing) so we dont use it.............powerful magnets......LOL Spencers symptom management includes Robaxin twice a day, Torb as needed, has been once a day for past week, Metacam for 5 days when swelling present(on that right now), Silvadene to affected area of cloaca(I have to pull it apart a little). His cloacal opening has healed weird, it is a slit...................course we also use oragel at times. Spencer is not always in misery, he sleeps on me , plays some, eats, but I know how gliders hide things. Please keep praying for Spencer!

Spencer, I am sending so many prayers your way!! Poor little guy, you are doing a great job in taking care of him.

I know y'all are trying but the prayers are not working. He now lives in my room because he makes the SM short noise on and off all night. I believe it is stressing the glider room and may have caused a couple of my moms to pull. His collar is well padded with moleskin so he just brushes it against his cloaca at 6 oclock on and off all night. I bet I got up 10+ times last night and put orajel on his bottom. He does not do this in the daytime when he is sleeping. His appetite is decreasing, I cant keep him clean anymore. He just isnt looking good folks. Does he have a quality of life? Sometimes, not near like he did before this all started back up again and certainly not like he did even 2 months ago.. I have been giving him Metcam, Torb, and Robaxin to try to keep him comfortable. Hubby says I an being cruel and I need to lay him to rest. Any ideas are welcome and appreciated. Thank You All

Cora - I am so sorry you have to go thru this. In your heart you already know the answer to your question. If you need anything just holler. We love you.

Hi Cora. I am sure sorry to hear about your little guy not doing well. I have plenty of time during the day to take care of him should you need to go to work or anything. I am happy to help out to give you rest if need be or watch him while you are gone.
I am here for you if you need me.
Kisses to little Spencer

Oh Cora, I'm so sorry sweety. I know you have given Spencer every ounce of love and determination you have in that great big heart of yours. And HE knows it too!

You know I don't have any experience at all with serious illenss in gliders. In animals at all in fact. So I won't try to advise you on whether or not to let him go. Spenny has been a part of you for so long, and only you will know when it is time. My heart is breaking for you right now.

Cora,

Your heart knows the answer regarding your beloved Spencer quality of life.

Your love for him will help you make the right decision, which has been laying heavily on your mind.

Sending prayers your way.

That decision is one of the hardest to make. Unfortunately, only you can make it. Does he have a quality of life? Does he have enjoyment and happiness. Is he miserable, irritated and in pain most of the time?

Like Kimberley said, listen to your heart.

My prayers go to you.

Ty karen.....however he sleeps on me all day with no issues................its night time when he does this,( I call it his nightterrors) all night on and off. So I dont need any one to watch him I need someone to make him better so we can go back to where we were before this last bout of SM last summer. At least we had a good 6 or 7 months in between the first and this episode. I got a few last ditch efforts up my sleeve and an angel sitting on my shoulder to help guide and protect me. Spencer and I will know what to do when the time comes....................I want that to be years from now...................

Read Part 2