Does this organization accept non-profit donations? Kristy

Ok thanks , i apprecitae it. Let me know when you guys do turn 501 c

Kristy

I keep reading about the "mill breeders", and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is mentioned, but who else is on the list? I read a posting about a breeder in Texas who was selling gliders to a reptile shop, did anyone find out who that was? Were you able to prove the gliders were being sold too young? I know mill breeders are bad, but has anyone personally toured their facilities to see the conditions their animals are living and breeding in? That was what the puppy mills were all about - inhumane breeding and holding cages, filth, lack of veterinary care for the sick and dying. Has anyone actually seen this in a glider's facility. I'd be scared to buy from them. I went to two pet stores in Las Vegas, where they sell gliders. One would not let you hold a baby unless you were looking to purchase - and the baby was really healthy and sweet. The other, had a lot of reptiles in it, and the glider was wild as it could be. When my gliders came out of my shirt to see why the baby was crying - the clerk (a hefty young man with Snake Wrangler across his shirt) didn't want to talk to me anymore. I went to these two stores because a friend was looking to buy a glider after researching quite intensely - and having everything set up at home - diet included.

I would like to be able to tell my friends who to avoid, not just that someone sells at trade shows. That's really generic, and anyone who sells nice healthy babies at shows will be lumped in with (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets. That's not good. Thanks for the information.

I would avoid any pet stores, trade shows, flea markets, etc.

I would look for a repputable breeder. Glider Central has a good list of reputable breeders.

Paula

I would advise your friend to either look on our forum list of classifieds or ask who from Texas is breeding -- most "mill breeders" will not allow anyone in to see their breeding facilities - I'm sure we have plenty of breeders that are either from TX or close by that would be willing to help you - a lot of our breeders will not allow just anyone in to see their breeding stock - it's upsetting for the gliders -

Good luck and please keep us informed

Sue
owned by

There are many mill breeders - and they have a habit of changing their names when the going starts to get tough for them.

Some commonly known mills are (this is NOT an exhaustive list, and I am using some names that may no longer be the name they go by)

S&S exotics
(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets
P0cket Pets of Dallas
P0cket Pets of Florida
Cage Works of Dallas
Mississippi Rebel Ranch
Sugar Gliders R Us
Mike McGrath

And that is just to name a few....

Remember, pet shops, fairs, trade shows, etc - the dealers there often get their gliders from one of these mill breeders.

^
Darn good list!

No wonder they were so vague on lineages, etc. You learn something new every day.

Has Flying Fur Ranch upgraded off the list? At one time they were considered as bad as Mike McGrath. Have they changed?

Hey, is Sandmans still a mill? I know he still sells at flea markets but I remember a post where everyone was saying how good he is or whatever.

Susan no longer has thousands of gliders in a barn at her house. She hasn't for some time. She was trying to get her numbers down to under 100 gliders back in December of '08 and I know that she rehomed many gliders in the months following that statement.
In Dec. '08 she also posted pictures of her glider room and openly answered questions re: diet, wheels, enrichment, adoption practices, etc. on LGG. Her glider room was clean & cages were clean. Cages were much smaller than many of us would like to see, and the amount of enrichment items was much less than we would think are acceptable.

Shortly after that, several people from the community visited Susan's house/facility. They can tell you more about what they saw.

There was recently a thread here about FFR here on GC, and very few people came to offer any input at all.
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/834489/Re_Flying_Fur_Ranch#Post834489

I think that many have stopped considering her a mill. Others remain on the fence, and still others believe once a mill, always a mill.
I guess each person can judge for themselves, provided that they have all the information/evidence.

Sue 1, are you in Texas or Vegas? If your friend is interesed, there are great rescues in both areas.

YEA FOR SUSAN!!!!!!!!!! sounds like she made some positive changes. That is great! Now if we could just get the REST of then to follow suit.

This is not altogether true, actually there are lots of us who will let people see our gliders, mommies, daddies, & babies. Lots of us have gliders who are used to seeing new faces all the time, it doesn't upset all gliders for someone to come see them. We may throw hand sanitizer at ya but you can still see our kiddos.

I have had Shawna(USMom), Tyler(gliderboy4life), Stephanie(buttercup) all in my glider area and Shawna had to poke around in EVERY pouch I had. All my gliders handled it fine. Not even mentioning family & friends, tooooooo many.

I have been in several community members glider areas and poked my nose in many pouches. Brandy Stanton(MissBee), Priscilla Price, Peggy(SRLB) and even Val(Jackie Chans Mom) a rescue homes glider rooms.

I don't think this was devastating in the least to my crew or anyone elses.
I do want to see glider rooms of breeders, and certainly see a joey I am buying's parents.

What about Doris and Donald out at Trader's Village in Houston, TX? I consider them mill breeders.

At last talk with them yes, about 2700 wild breeders living in a barn/shed.
Her advice to feed them apples sprinkled with vitamin, and she sells about 4 weeks OOP. Every time I see those poor babies I want to cry.


Definately a mill breeder.

I also allow people in to see my gliders in my glider room ~ I actually encourage it! I have had SugarGliderSuz (Suz), Sugeebaby (Karen), Nicki (Nicki) in my new glider room, and Tinkerbellsmom (Coeli), TheGliderPlayroom (Helen) have also been to my house and seen my gliders (before my room was complete). Anyone that adopts one of my joeys locally definitely comes into the room to see! Of course all my friends and family too!

I agree, that buying from any flea market or trade show is not a good place to get a glider. It's much better to stick with a reputable breeder!

I love the chance to show off my babies! Unfortunately, I live so far out in the boonies that few have seen them.

Lauren, Shelle, Minkasmom, Chris, Zack (he no longer has gliders) and Alicia (though I don't think since I've gotten all the new cages) have all seen my gliders.

and don't forget Paula at the Waldo Flea market in Florida- she is 100% a mill breeder...

look, your best bet is a rule of thumb:

buy ONLY from a reputable breeder... and you won't find reputable breeders at expos, trade shows, pet stores, flea markets, etc (FOR THE MOST PART)

and if you DO find someone selling at these locations, then ask yourself this: are they selling on the spot to impuls buyers? Because a REPUTABLE breeder drumming up business at one of these kinds of locations will NOT let ANYONE "impulse buy"... They might show off their adults or sell glider PRODUCTS on the spot... but NOT joeys or for that matter ANY actual gliders...

for that, they would give you their business card, have you come to visit their home/facility, and have you spend time bonding with your new joeys for WEEKS first before they let you take them home... ALL signs of a GOOD breeder, IMO

Flag! Flag! Flag!

They're also running ads offering jobs!

(Pocket Pets of Dallas also goes by Tropical Attitudes Pets)

Linda, that was my mistake. I misunderstood what someone told me and I jumped the gun and said that Perfect Pocket Pets was selling gliders through Craigslist. Actually they are looking for suckers to do their dirty work employees. Ok that was saying that was totally beneath me but I'm not the least bit sorry. LOL

Perfect Pocket Pets is not the same as Pocket Pets of Dallas or Tropical Attitude Pets. They are different. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is owned by a guy named Virgil.

Sorry, I meant Perfect Pocket Pets is not the same as Pocket Pets of Dallas - I must have automatically typed the "Perfect" in there.

I only typed in Pocket and Pets-not sure why it showed up like that. Pocket/Pets of Dallas is the same as Tropical Attitude Pets. I have the email from them announcing their name change. (from Steve Larkin)

Nope, I didn't make a mistake - this posting automatically added the "Perfect" to the Pocket Pets of Dallas. "Perfect" is not in their name. I've heard a lot about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, and I do know the owner's name is Virgil. Has anyone actually visited any of these facilities? They're being called "Mill" breeders, but what criteria do you go by? I've heard Steve Larkin, the owner of Pocket Pets of Dallas (formerly Custom Cageworks), tell his people not to sell certain babies that had been shipped to him - because they were too little. He said he had them in the cage with the others just for company and to keep warm. I saw a woman want to buy a little one - and he specifically told her "No".

I think you're doing a good thing trying to stop breeders from selling sick and underage gliders, but it seems like there should be a way to legally control them. USDA should have something in place to do unannounced inspections - like they do at their facilities. If they're selling sick or underage babies, then close them down for a specific length of time and fine them. If they do it "x" number of times - revoke their licenses. That would take care of those problems. Wouldn't it?

Yes, Steve Larkin changed the name of his company from Pocket Pets of Dallas to Tropical Attitude Pets. He was getting a lot of people confusing him with Virgil.

Sue, Steve Larkin WAS inspected at a show in Wichita and WAS shut down from that show. One of the problems is the USDA is severely understaffed (as far as inspectors)