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Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: ] #883009
12/16/09 11:00 AM
12/16/09 11:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
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New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
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I have heard of people injecting meds into mealworms also

as for washing, I agree with using a warm barely damp washcloth, and keep him in a pouch for warmth


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: ] #883070
12/16/09 01:54 PM
12/16/09 01:54 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
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You could always return to your vet and ask for a CONVENIA injection (slow release antibiotic that lasts 3 weeks) and an injection of metacam. Then you do not have to give him meds by mouth.

The calcium can be mixed with any food he will eat. The other two can be taken care of with an injection and save you this worry.

For many gliders, the stress of being in an e-collar will cause them to refuse food for a day or two. You could try letting him out of the collar for meal times and putting him back in it after he has eaten. You have to supervise this very closely. If he continues to refuse food, try any and every food you can think of. At this point, it does not matter if it is good for him or not, allow him to have junk food. Here are a few suggestions to get you thinking. The list you can try is endless:

boiled chicken
omelet
scrambled eggs
vanilla ice cream
vanilla pudding
jello
Odwalla, Naked or Knudsen fruit smoothie/juice
spaghetti (sauce and all)
shrimp
hamburger
cheese
mashed potatoes
baked or mashed sweet potatoes
french fries
piece of walnut
Noodles from Chicken noodle soup
and so on.....

Of course, this is not to be his regular diet, but it might stimulate his appetite again. Decreasing his stress level might also stimulate his appetite.

Last edited by Jackie_Chans_Mom; 12/16/09 01:59 PM.

~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #883307
12/16/09 09:56 PM
12/16/09 09:56 PM
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NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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Val, I am going to try each of the foods mentioned. Scrambled eggs and vanilla pudding so far have been unsuccessful.

I had my boyfriend try to get the meds in him, while I held him, with only his upper body sticking out of his pouch, and with a fleece blanket wrapped around. He wasn't a happy guy..and he did fight, and turn his head, regardless. We got some of it in him, but I do not think it all got in. I will call the vet first thing again tomorrow and let her know that we are having difficulties with him.


Boyfriend has been helping me try to feed him, and give him things to drink. Everything's been turned down. On occasion, he'll lick a dot of BML or turkey baby food, but he will not eat anything else. I've tried offering about 7 different kinds of baby foods today, as well as 3 different kinds of yogurt (and scrambled eggs, and pudding). No luck. He refuses his water bottle, and when I give him some in a syringe, he spits it right out.


It is very frustrating, but I am trying to stay positive about it. It just seems that I am doing everything that should be done but none of it is working.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883313
12/16/09 10:12 PM
12/16/09 10:12 PM
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Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
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Did he have any favorite foods or treats in the past, before he started on his hunger strike? You can try mashing those up (like mealies or wax worms), and offering as a licky treat as well. Have you tried Ensure (not the chocolate flavored)? If he's losing too much weight, you might consider that. Be sure to follow with plenty of water (if he'll drink it). And if he is at all constipated, don't offer it.

Have you tried feeding any of these foods through a needless syringe? I got almost all of Charlie's dinner in her this way, when she was in an e-collar. Maybe if he gets used to taking his food this way, you can sneak in a bit of his meds with the food later.


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
• 2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: KattyM] #883341
12/16/09 10:53 PM
12/16/09 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
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NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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I've tried the needless syringe -- he spits out the food.

I can get him to lick a dot of BML (tiny, tiny dot..), and occasionally a dot of turkey baby food (again, very tiny), but he won't eat it all. His favorite treat before was honey, and yoggies. He won't take either of those now.

Water is not going well -- pedialyte and gaterade, too. He won't take any of it. I tried offering a bit of apple to him, so that he could get water.. no luck. I


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883358
12/16/09 11:18 PM
12/16/09 11:18 PM
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Kansas
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LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
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I'm sorry that your little one is being so difficult!

Sometimes it's best to give them a little time to relax. It sounds like he's feeling pretty stressed right now, which will cause him to resist anything that you're trying.

Make sure that he is at least getting liquids, if he's refusing, you should get him in for a sub-q to prevent dehydration.


Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: LSardou] #883377
12/17/09 12:50 AM
12/17/09 12:50 AM
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WintersSong Offline OP
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My vet refers to him as one of the most difficult gliders that she has ever seen (and she works with gliders regularly!)


A problem has arised. He is overgrooming his tail. He is in an e-collar, but even with that, he is still able to get to the tip of his tail. As such, the tip of his tail has become very thin and mangy. I've noticed him biting it, as well. I have left a message on my vets emergency line. Should be hearing from her within 5 minutes.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883388
12/17/09 01:37 AM
12/17/09 01:37 AM

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Amanda1981
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Amanda1981
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A



Originally Posted By: WintersSong
My vet refers to him as one of the most difficult gliders that she has ever seen (and she works with gliders regularly!)


A problem has arised. He is overgrooming his tail. He is in an e-collar, but even with that, he is still able to get to the tip of his tail. As such, the tip of his tail has become very thin and mangy. I've noticed him biting it, as well. I have left a message on my vets emergency line. Should be hearing from her within 5 minutes.
You'll need to get a thick straw (like McDonald's straws, how they're bigger, or a Burger King shake straw) and put over his tail. Someone more experienced can tell you exactly how to do this, but I'm pretty sure it's just so they can't bend their tail. thumb

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: ] #883405
12/17/09 02:13 AM
12/17/09 02:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294
NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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Amanda -- I've sent the bf out to get one of those straws. For the time being, he's in a bonding pouch on my lap. The e-vet returned my call and recommended doing the same thing that you suggested. There is no wound, and so she does not think it is something that he needs to be rushed in for. But, he will be there to greet her again first thing in the morning.

Val -- When he goes in again tomorrow morning, I will ask her about the injection meds and sub-q fluids. Thank you for all of your words last night -- I have taken the majority of your advice (or am trying to -- save for the splint, which I am leaving be).

To everyone else -- thank you for your comments thus far. I am trying not to think negatively about this. I am hopeful that he will recover.

I keep saying -- we made it through today. One day down...
The healing time, should be 4 to 8 weeks from what I have heard. The vet says we might get lucky and see signs of healing within 2 weeks, and if he does recover, it is her expectations to see him back with his cagemate within a month weeks. She is happy that he has left his e-collar on, and says that in his case, this will be extremely important in his recovery.



The little man is the one on top. This was just a few days before his injury.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883422
12/17/09 03:20 AM
12/17/09 03:20 AM
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WintersSong Offline OP
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WintersSong  Offline OP
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Bf informed me a little while that "maybe" he's eating. He says that earlier, he went to check on him and found the fleece that I lined the cage with ruffed up near the bird feeder I had set in there, and the bird feeder knocked over.

Well, I tied the feeder on there with fleece to ensure that it stays. I left him alone for about 20 minutes. When I returned, he was curled up in some scraps of fleece that I put in there.. there were bits of BML on one of the toys that I put in there, and on the floor of his hospital cage.

Now, maybe he's just playing in it... but, I am hoping he is sneaking a bit in the rare moments that he is left by himself.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883424
12/17/09 03:32 AM
12/17/09 03:32 AM
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the gliders angel Offline
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when you gave the foods with the meds in it did you use your finger to feed it or not i dip my finger in the food with the meds in it and let him lick it off my finger. i just got thru giving meds for a uti and at first my glider did nt touch anything because of the bitterness of the med then i found she loved hawaiin delight so i took a dime size on a plate put the med in it mixed it in and she couldnt wait to lap it up, you have to try maybe a few different baby foods one she might just surprise you

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: the gliders angel] #883426
12/17/09 03:47 AM
12/17/09 03:47 AM
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NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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I've attempted to use a spoon when I mix the meds with food. I will try just putting it on a plate, but as he rolled through the food the last time I put it on the plate I am apprehensive of doing this.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883428
12/17/09 04:03 AM
12/17/09 04:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis
KattyM  Offline
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Phoenix, AZ
If he's eating the BML, you'll see the spit-out remains. Sometimes it will look like little crescent moon shapes, and other times like light brown spit wads. Either way, you'll know he's sucked the nutrients out before spitting it out. I hope that's what he's doing. hug2

Taking medicine is pretty horrid, for anyone, it seems. I have to give Keiko a weekly pulse dose every month, and I follow with mealies after she's taken it. Oftentimes she rejects the mealies because of the foul taste still in her mouth. But after a minute or so, she's ready for her treat. wink

I've tried mixing her meds with tasty foods, but found what works best with her is to position her just right and quickly squirt it deep in her mouth. I wrap her snug like a burrito so her movements are restricted, and hold her head so she can't burrow into the wrap or move her head around.

I like the earlier suggestion of having your vet inject the meds. And if he's not eating and getting adequate nourishment, including calcium, perhaps injections of those as well? Is that an option for your little boy? dunno


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
• 2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: KattyM] #883666
12/17/09 05:40 PM
12/17/09 05:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
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Make sure that you are checking him regularly for dehydration. Often, gliders who are dehydrated will refuse to eat or drink. Dehydration can make them feel really terrible. If he is even the slightest bit dehydrated, have the vet sub-q him. It won't hurt him at all, and might just be the thing that pushes him past this hump.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #883750
12/17/09 08:32 PM
12/17/09 08:32 PM
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Posts: 2,294
NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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vet saw him briefly again today -- says he looks okay, but he's down a gram. That's a gram in 2 days. Not overly concerned about that..

She says that the swelling of his toes has decreased, and that he is not dehydrated.

I did get a small amount (little less than a teaspoon) of BML into him when we got home from the vet -- I mixed it with his pain meds.. I've discovered that when it's all mixed together (all 3 meds), he won't eat it. I will try the other meds over the course of the evening. Anyway, I had to hand feed him it. I held a spoon into the pouch, and though it made a little bit of a mess, he ate just about all but a dot.

...do gliders get any water/hydration from BML?


vet says he's nowhere near out of the woods yet, but she did say again that him being so young will work in his favor, and could result in a quicker recovery. It's still going to be a long process, and she's stated it'll be a very difficult one, but we're doing the best that we can for him.



Also, his tail.. she says that he does not appear to be SM or overgrooming. Instead, it is just sticky from his food, making it appear as overgroomed.


ETA: Got half of the second meds into him, and a tad bit more of BML. Will keep trying every hour.

Last edited by WintersSong; 12/17/09 09:16 PM.

~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883859
12/18/09 04:21 AM
12/18/09 04:21 AM
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the gliders angel Offline
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what i do with the hawaiin delight is after i put the meds in a dime size amount i either let her lick it off the plate or use my finger and let her lick it off that. but make sure you get all the meds from the plate in her. even if it takes time, i also use ben-bac to restore the bacteria that the meds take out of her system or yogurt is good too.

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: the gliders angel] #883875
12/18/09 08:17 AM
12/18/09 08:17 AM
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NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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Morning update: Last night, I was able to get some more BML & his 3rd med into him before bed. This morning, I got 2 small baby spoon *half* full of baby yogurt, and a half baby spoon full of BML into him. smile Not in the clear yet, but eating something is better than not, even though he does need to be hand fed.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #883876
12/18/09 08:28 AM
12/18/09 08:28 AM

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lovely1inred
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That sounds really good Winter!!! Excellent news!!!

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: ] #884085
12/18/09 05:11 PM
12/18/09 05:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis
KattyM  Offline
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Thanks for the update.

They do get a bit of hydration from the BML (it's got the apple juice and other liquidy stuff in it). And if he'll eat any of the fruits, he'll get some more from that. I think mine are used to me holding the water bottle for them in the morning after I weigh them and let them go to the bathroom, because now they seem a bit spoiled that way. I know they drink in the cage, but some of them drink a lot if I hold their bottle. Even though he doesn't need to be hand fed, he may be enjoying the special attention and pampering now (just as we would if we were feeling poorly).

You're doing a great job, and it is encouraging that your vet's report has some positive points in it. heart


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
• 2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: KattyM] #884142
12/18/09 08:39 PM
12/18/09 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
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NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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I've been blending up his tablespoon of fruits that go with the BML each night -- he's not too interested in eating that.

From what I have heard though, what is important is just to get him eating something. He's eating his BML mix.. at least some -- probably a teaspoon a night. From the diet page, it seems that 1/3 of a tablespoon is adequate for a glider. So at 1 teaspoon, he's getting about that I think. On occasion, he'll eat a tiny dot of applesauce, but he's more into the BML or yogurt at the moment.

I am not going to worry about getting him to eat exactly as the diet plan states. I will try and get the fruits and veggies in him once he is able/willing to eat on his own. (I will of course always offer it, but I will not try to force them, as I am the BML).

He's getting food in him, which is more than he was doing before.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #884548
12/20/09 12:56 AM
12/20/09 12:56 AM
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New Jersey
finnessa Offline
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I didn't see any updates...

Winter how is your baby doing tonight? Hope he is improving!! hug2


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: finnessa] #884577
12/20/09 04:50 AM
12/20/09 04:50 AM
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NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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He still will not eat on his own, at least as far as I can tell. I am unsure of if he's drinking on his own as well, since I have not seen him do so.

I can typically get him to eat a small amount over the course of the day. Occasionally if I hold the water bottle over him, he'll take a drink. It's never a lot, but he seems to get at least some of it into him each day... he has no interest in pedialyte or g2.

My vet has been calling me daily, checking in.. which is comforting. We go back to see her on Tuesday morning so that she can see how he's going. I am hoping that he gained back the gram that he lost last week, or at the very least hasn't lost any more.

I am hoping that she says everything looks great, and that it'll only be another week or two before I can put him back with his friend. It's very heartbreaking to see him in the hospital cage. It's frustrating that he can't climb, or really even play... I did put floor toys in there, but as far as I can tell, he has no interest in them. I know the whole point is for him to rest, but it feels so cruel to keep him in such a tiny cage.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #884591
12/20/09 09:54 AM
12/20/09 09:54 AM
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LSardou Offline
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I've been following this and just wanted say that I'm impressed with how well you are doing with your little fella.
I'm sure all of this is taking a toll on everyone, and do hope that things start to improve for him soon.

Have you tried putting them together for a little supervised play time in the evening?
You could line your tub with some thick pieces of fleece, and put them in the tub with him along with something for them to cuddle in together.

Also, you could try and put the other gliders food dish in there with them and maybe if he sees them eating, he might feel like joining them too.

Also, have you tried using a large bonding pouch to use for carrying him and his friends around with you during the day? As long as you have him on you, you could take the ecollar off, and put them together for a few hours. While he's in there with them, offering everyone some treats might also encourage him to eat too.

I feel that he is depressed and lonely, so maybe by trying some other tactics to bring him together with his family will encourage him more.

My prayers are with him. hug2

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: LSardou] #884734
12/20/09 04:42 PM
12/20/09 04:42 PM
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WintersSong Offline OP
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WintersSong  Offline OP
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LSardou, thank you for your kind words. It's a bit of a shock dealing with it.. I wasn't ever expecting to have an emergency of this sort! Especially not within 2 months of getting them! But, now that it's happened the best that can be done is to do the best that I can for him.

I caught him drinking a little bit this morning, and it appears that the level of his food went down a tiny bit. I am thinking that he must be drinking when I am not right there as well since I caught him today. Hand feeding has gone successfully today, in terms that about 80% of the time he'll at least lick the spoon or syringe. And, speaking of syringes.. I've tricked him into getting his meds today by dipping the syringe into some peach flavored baby yogurt.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #885317
12/22/09 11:41 AM
12/22/09 11:41 AM
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WintersSong Offline OP
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Update from today:
Took him to the vet to get things checked out. We've opted to leave the splint on, as he is doing great with it. She didn't do x-rays (waiting another few weeks for that) but she says she's very impressed and surprised with how he's doing. She made up a new e-collar for him.. a festive one. It's green with a picture of a red Christmas tree on it. And she cleaned him up..

He's battling the e-collar of course, but it's a must-have for him as anytime it's off he starts to go right for the area. Right now, he seems to have calmed down and is settled in his pouch.

She is expecting that everything will be able to come off by the 4th (or at the latest, the week after) IF things continue to go well.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: WintersSong] #885321
12/22/09 11:48 AM
12/22/09 11:48 AM

C
CalamityAnnie
Unregistered
CalamityAnnie
Unregistered
C



Wow, your vet sounds awesome!
I'm so glad he seems to be doing alright. I think a festive e-collar would be cute if they didn't look so sad and pathetic wearing one!
Still praying for you guys!

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: ] #885418
12/22/09 03:02 PM
12/22/09 03:02 PM

A
Amanda1981
Unregistered
Amanda1981
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A



blush I'm glad everything is exceeding your vet's expectations! That's good news!

Re: How am I going to get meds into him when he won't [Re: ] #885632
12/23/09 02:17 AM
12/23/09 02:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294
NY
WintersSong Offline OP
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WintersSong  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294
NY
Me too! She's started to mention the idea of taking it off, so I get the idea that she's confident about his ability to heal now.

I think he might have to leave everything on until the 13th, as she called earlier to mention that she'll check him on the 4th and see where he's at, but she's going out of town until the 12th and doesn't want to take anything off unless things appear to have healed completely by then... just because she'll be unable to treat him until after the 12th. BUT, another week or so in everything is better than hearing that his chances are terrible.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
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