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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Sherri]
#912214
02/26/10 02:40 AM
02/26/10 02:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843 Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
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That is very very tiny for 5 weeks.
You will need to increase the feedings round the clock instead of only supplementing him. Watch him closely to detemine how often to feed him, I would say every 2-4 hours. He is crawing out of the pouch because he is hungry. Also be sure to weigh him everyday, he should gain about 1 gram per day. He is very behind on his growth and development...I have had joeys come OOP larger than 13 grams...are you sure that is accurate?
If the parents are not hurting him it is best he stays with them so they can groom him and teach him to how to be a glider.
I also suggest taking the mom and baby to the vet, to make sure there is not a health problem causing this and if they are dehydrated the vet can give sub-q fluids.
Mealworms and a nectar supplement help with milk production, if that turns out to be the problem. Good luck!
Sugaree Gliders Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Sherri]
#912217
02/26/10 02:51 AM
02/26/10 02:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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It sounds like it is time to pull him. If he is cold, he can't digest his food properly. He needs to stay warm. 13 grams for 5 weeks is dangerously small. I've had joeys come oop larger than that. This little one needs you to be his mom.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Sherri]
#912227
02/26/10 04:23 AM
02/26/10 04:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748 New Jersey
JillMarie
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
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in my opinion... As long as the mom is not HURTING the joey in any way it is better to leave them together, but definitely feed the joey. The joey needs to be kept warm and definitely needs to be warm to feed and digest food properly. I would contact suz. http://www.suzsugargliders.com/index.htm her info on her site was wonderful and helped me raise my Arwen from 5 days OOP!
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: JillMarie]
#912243
02/26/10 07:05 AM
02/26/10 07:05 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788 Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
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Sherri, I agree with Teresa - at this point I would completely pull him. The fact that you've found him very cold multiple times means that the parents are really rejecting him. If they were going to take care of him at all, they'd keep him warm. Call me today, if you have more questions
(P.S. got your box sent out yesterday via UPS)
Suz Enyedy Carina & Coobah Allira & Gizmo Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah Suz' Sugar Gliders
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: sugarglidersuz]
#912255
02/26/10 08:33 AM
02/26/10 08:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,443 Roanoke, Virginia
mommawannabe
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,443
Roanoke, Virginia
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I agree with Teresa and Suz, mom and dad are not even keeping him warm so I would definitely pull and keep him in a warm incubator but since he is so dangerously small I would even say keep him on you skin in your bra but make sure he can breath. Definitely feed him more often. Poor little guy. Keeping you guys in my thoughts and prayers.
Anna
Hubby Tommie son Logan - 11 Pugs-Duncan and Raven, Bunnies-Foo&Friday Hedgies-Sweet Pea,Dobby,Bambi,DarthVader,Lexy,Shadow, Willow & Thatch. suggies-Izzy, Miley~Toff, Jasper~Twinkie, Nix~Ash, Nash~Riley, Barney~Spryte~Pixie, Apollo~Athena. Turtles - Shelly~Petunia www.suggiebabies.com
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: mommawannabe]
#912258
02/26/10 08:57 AM
02/26/10 08:57 AM
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SugarGliderCandy
Unregistered
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SugarGliderCandy
Unregistered
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Glad you've been keeping a close watch on the situation. With what you've described-I'd say its definitely time to pull him. Good luck with him
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: JillMarie]
#912266
02/26/10 09:25 AM
02/26/10 09:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,047 atkins arkansas
eterrell84
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,047
atkins arkansas
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in my opinion... As long as the mom is not HURTING the joey in any way it is better to leave them together, but definitely feed the joey. The joey needs to be kept warm and definitely needs to be warm to feed and digest food properly. I would contact suz. http://www.suzsugargliders.com/index.htm her info on her site was wonderful and helped me raise my Arwen from 5 days OOP! hmmmm.... if the mom is kicking him out of the nice warm pouch, and he is in the cold, i wouldnt think it best to leave him with her. sounds like he needs to be a bra baby! lol
~ERIN~ momma to:ceasar(boxer),Chili(pug),Badcat(black cat) and Juliette(ragamuffin)~Apple and Archer and George Micheal Maybe and Jasper ,husband Jordan and daughter Azlyn!
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: eterrell84]
#912270
02/26/10 09:35 AM
02/26/10 09:35 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402 Michigan
gliderma
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
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I would pull him and set him up in a critter keeper with lots of fleece. Set it on top of a heating pad wrapped in a bath towel. Make sure the heating pad is the type that stays on. All of this is on Suz site and as we all know, Suz is a Godsend! I used all of her advice to save Mshki and he is doing awesome! 13 grams is very small, so I would be feeding him every couple hours around the clock with the joey formula. Once he can stay warm, his appetite should pick up. I hope he turns around for you! If you can keep him with you during the day that will help him too!
Lynn Martel 616-272-4374 989-400-5686
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: gliderma]
#912289
02/26/10 10:32 AM
02/26/10 10:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788 Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
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Just a note that the incubator is ONLY meant to be used at night when you have to get some sleep. Otherwise, the joey should be tucked in a fleece blanket or in a bra pouch in your shirt. This gives the joey your body warmth, your humidity and your heartbeat
Suz Enyedy Carina & Coobah Allira & Gizmo Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah Suz' Sugar Gliders
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: sugarglidersuz]
#912360
02/26/10 01:09 PM
02/26/10 01:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Gliders, especially joeys use a great deal of energy just keeping warm. When the parents aren't snuggling with the joey, most of the joey's food intake goes into keeping them warm and so little is left over for growing. This could be why he is so tiny still.
I would feed him every hour right now, atleast during the day and then every two hours at night. As much as he will eat each time. Then as he starts to gain, you can go to every two hours during the day too.
Once he has really shown some growth, then you can start spacing out the feedings more. I would also use the newborn formula without baby cereal in it. He needs nutrition more than filler right now (the cereal is a filler).
His tiny size reminds me of Thumbalina, a little joey Anita Totty raised. You might talk to her more directly to see if she did anything different with her.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Dancing]
#912381
02/26/10 02:04 PM
02/26/10 02:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788 Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
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I agree with Teresa 100% And yes, you should stimulate him to go potty until you physically seeing him doing so on his own.
Suz Enyedy Carina & Coobah Allira & Gizmo Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah Suz' Sugar Gliders
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Sherri]
#912426
02/26/10 04:28 PM
02/26/10 04:28 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402 Michigan
gliderma
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
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That's great news! I know how excited I was with Mshki every time he went! It's the little things that get us Mom's excited!
Lynn Martel 616-272-4374 989-400-5686
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Sherri]
#912428
02/26/10 04:32 PM
02/26/10 04:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748 Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
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Before my first rejected joey, I saw posts where people were thrilled when their joey pooped and I couldn't understand why.
THEN, I had my first rejected joey of my own. The first time it pooped, you would have thought I'd just been given a million bucks!
Congratulations on your tiny one!!
Connie 812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues SmallWorldSuggies"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward" "Glide free Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: eterrell84]
#912776
02/27/10 11:11 AM
02/27/10 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748 New Jersey
JillMarie
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
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in my opinion... As long as the mom is not HURTING the joey in any way it is better to leave them together, but definitely feed the joey. The joey needs to be kept warm and definitely needs to be warm to feed and digest food properly. I would contact suz. http://www.suzsugargliders.com/index.htm her info on her site was wonderful and helped me raise my Arwen from 5 days OOP! hmmmm.... if the mom is kicking him out of the nice warm pouch, and he is in the cold, i wouldnt think it best to leave him with her. sounds like he needs to be a bra baby! lol Erin also agreed with what I had said. About if mom is not HURTING them...but every situation is different and needs to be evaluated on its own merits. Is the joey found cold everytime you go to the cage? or just once in a while? Do the parents act happy when you replace the joey or do they immediately push it away? Are the parents the ones pushing the joey out or is it crawling out on its own? is the pouch too crowded? All these things should be taken into consideration. While I myself have handraised NUMEROUS animals...it truly is best to leave them with the real parents as long as possible as handraising any baby animal CAN create health and emotional issues. At this point I am happy the joey is doing well AND THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS! I dont want this to be a debate, but I felt a need to explain myself. As someone who has taken in wild baby rabbits because someone found them....abandoned...I understand how easy it is to panic when something seems wrong and want to fix it. But sometimes we dont need to FIX it perhaps just nudge it a bit. Sometimes mom isnt producing enough milk and all she needs to welcome baby back is some supplemental feeding of the joey and as long as baby isnt nursing, mom is happy to keep the baby. Again, each situation is different. And there may be reasons mom doesnt want a baby that we just dont see. I am sure there was/is something wrong with my Arwen. She was fully half the size of her brother when they were "born", and to this day is smaller than the rest of her family (of course she is the smartest of the bunch!)and perhaps her mom "sensed" something was wrong with her. sometimes it is best to go with your instincts, and hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. By the way...this spring...everyone leave those baby bunnies ALONE unless you know for certain that the mommy is dead! They have not been abandoned! have a wonderful day everyone! I am going shopping for more fleece! I pray the little one does well and keeps making those poopies! LOL
Last edited by JillMarie; 02/27/10 11:15 AM.
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: JillMarie]
#912816
02/27/10 01:24 PM
02/27/10 01:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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As long as the mom is not HURTING the joey in any way it is better to leave them together With the parents leaving the joey and the joey getting cold constantly, it IS hurting the joey. They might not be biting him but, at 5 weeks and just 13 grams, this joey IS being hurt. Pulling him is his only chance to survive. If he isn't kept warm, he won't be able to grow.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Dancing]
#912822
02/27/10 01:49 PM
02/27/10 01:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,495 Missouri
tammyangel
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,495
Missouri
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Teresa is right on this the joeys is being put at risk by leaving this joey in with its parents. Im happy that the baby is doing better now that you have pulled the joey. And those who have had to hand raise a rejected joey can tell you that handraising these babies usually makes them be the sweetest babies ever and emotionally they do fine .Connie who has her baby Roo can tell you just how special that little boy is due to her having to hand raise him since the breeder who sold this joey sold it to the person right after his eyes were open.And handraising a joey that is already suffering due to not being properly taken care of will also make that joey healthier due to being taken care of properly.
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Sherri]
#913174
02/28/10 04:08 PM
02/28/10 04:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 777 Lecanto Florida
1daddyglider1
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 777
Lecanto Florida
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Sherri: I am not getting on you, but this joey looks to be no older than 2-3 weeks oop. If he came out as a pinkie this is the danger of calling a joey out of pouch too early and then re-homing at eight weeks(for newbie breeders, please start your oop date from a fully furred joey or when the eyes open). Look at the features of a NOT fluffy tail, the way he is standing spread eagle with front feet and his face has the baby face look. His eyes don't even seem to be open enough for an five week old. Look at Dancing's five week old pic she posted today. Also have seen mill breeder selling a glider that had the same features as this glider. DO NOT buy a joey this young from anybody(I know you aren't selling him and trying to save him Sherri.) Much less the weight of him. Sorry I got off topic Sherri and hope your little man will pull through... Art
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: Sherri]
#913175
02/28/10 04:08 PM
02/28/10 04:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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oh wow, it is hard to believe he is 5 weeks oop. But ya know, the runt of the litter is always the fiestiest and the best. Hang in there Sherri and you too Raul!
Art, I know Sherri and I know she knows how to age a glider's oop date. With Raul, this little guy has had a rough start and is lucky to still be alive. I have full confidence in Sherri and if Raul is going to make it, it will be because of her love and dedication.
But you are right...to any new owners who see these photos of Raul, this is NOT what a 5 week oop joey should look like. By 5 weeks, they should be MUCH larger and fully fluffy. They should be able to move around and explore on their own (even if they choose to still hang out in the sleep pouch). They will about this time start to explore the foods mom and dad are eating and should, by this age be able to go potty on their own.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: tammyangel]
#913190
02/28/10 05:00 PM
02/28/10 05:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748 Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
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And those who have had to hand raise a rejected joey can tell you that handraising these babies usually makes them be the sweetest babies ever and emotionally they do fine .Connie who has her baby Roo can tell you just how special that little boy is due to her having to hand raise him since the breeder who sold this joey sold it to the person right after his eyes were open.
Roo is definitely my most bonded glider. He came to me, approx a month OOP and weighed about 20 grams. I fed him every hour on the hour, for six weeks. Thank God my daughter helped me or I'd never have gotten any sleep. He was (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets baby and also has 2 parasites and 1 bacteria. He didn't have a cage mate until he was about 8 months old, so besides being with me all day, he woke me every morning around 5, to play. Since he was alone, I became his cage mate. I love all of my babies, but there's an extra strong bond between Roo and me. Raising a rejected joey is always a last resort but a necessary one sometimes. Everyone I know, who has raised a rejected joey, has a very special bond with them. You become their parent, they become your child.
Connie 812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues SmallWorldSuggies"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward" "Glide free Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
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Re: Should I pull him?
[Re: suggiemom1980]
#913213
02/28/10 06:01 PM
02/28/10 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748 New Jersey
JillMarie
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
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And those who have had to hand raise a rejected joey can tell you that handraising these babies usually makes them be the sweetest babies ever and emotionally they do fine .Connie who has her baby Roo can tell you just how special that little boy is due to her having to hand raise him since the breeder who sold this joey sold it to the person right after his eyes were open.
Roo is definitely my most bonded glider. He came to me, approx a month OOP and weighed about 20 grams. I fed him every hour on the hour, for six weeks. Thank God my daughter helped me or I'd never have gotten any sleep. He was (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets baby and also has 2 parasites and 1 bacteria. He didn't have a cage mate until he was about 8 months old, so besides being with me all day, he woke me every morning around 5, to play. Since he was alone, I became his cage mate. I love all of my babies, but there's an extra strong bond between Roo and me. Raising a rejected joey is always a last resort but a necessary one sometimes. Everyone I know, who has raised a rejected joey, has a very special bond with them. You become their parent, they become your child. I agree in that they bond strongly. I myself had to handraise my Arwen from 5 days oop! What I meant when I mentioned a concern of emotional developement...MOST animal babies when taken from the mother too young defiantely develope some kind of emotional or physical health issue. There is plenty of evidence supporting that. What we can provide in the way of mother's milk is no where as healthy as the REAL mother. Sometimes the risk is worth it to save a life...WHAT I WORRY ABOUT is people wanting that special bond so bad they pull a joey and hand raise it when that doesnt NEED to be done. I am not saying that is the case here! but so many visit this forum and hear us talking about those " bonds" and I worry about someone doing it for the sake of the relationship they think they will have, at the risk of a baby who will not be as healthy as adjusted as they should be. I tried to get the point across gently, because I know how easy it is to be misunderstood here. I would love to see some people support the thought that handraising is only for emergencies. sorry if I upset anybody, but the truth is we are not the best parent they can have.
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