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Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Dancing] #980104
07/23/10 05:20 PM
07/23/10 05:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
Does this include gliders who have more than mosaic in them?

Serendipity is a WF platinum MO RT. Kanani is just a MO RT. Their baby is a WF MO RT and probably platinum as well.

I want to add, I researched their lineage before I put them together. Kanani's COI is 0%. Serendipity's is less than 1%. I researched Mercede's lineage before I bought her (MO RT) and have already researched their future cage mate's lineage (will def have MO in him, maybe WF, platinum), even tho I won't be getting him for 10-12 months.


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: suggiemom1980] #980115
07/23/10 05:39 PM
07/23/10 05:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 956
Homestead, FL
Adri Offline
Glider Guardian
Adri  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 956
Homestead, FL
Connie your pairing sounds absolutely fine, going by what you have stated. smile


Adri

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Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Adri] #980232
07/23/10 09:23 PM
07/23/10 09:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
Thank you. I'm really pretty clueless when it comes to figuring this stuff out, so that's when I turn to those who do know BEFORE letting any gliders breed. And more recently, before purchase.


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: suggiemom1980] #980432
07/24/10 10:24 AM
07/24/10 10:24 AM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



Wow, this post took a turn I did not see coming.

I was always under the impression you should not breed Mosaic to Mosaic and that you should breed out the line for better health and lineage results, is this not the case any more?

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: ] #980714
07/24/10 08:39 PM
07/24/10 08:39 PM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



Are there even enough Mosaics out there that are not related to even consider breeding Mosaic to Mosaic?

I was also under the impression that there is not and it would be hard to find Mosaics that are not related once you have one. Is this not the case any more?

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: ] #980723
07/24/10 08:49 PM
07/24/10 08:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
The reasoning I have been led to understand:

There is only ONE non-sterile line, that is the Snow White line. Any non-sterile mosaics being bred together would be inbreeding to a degree because they are all from her.

There are a couple (I'm not sure how many) of sterile lines, however, they should be bred OUT to reduce sterility in the lines. Breeding two mosaics from sterile lines is NOT acceptable, as you will be greatly increasing the chance of getting sterility back into their offspring.

Since there is only one non-sterile line, breeding a sterile-line and a non-sterile line together has the potential of introducing sterility to the non-sterile line and should be avoided.

Also, sterile lines should not be bred to any recessive colors to prevent introducing sterility.


Nadine

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Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: wildlifeangel] #980724
07/24/10 08:51 PM
07/24/10 08:51 PM

J
JamieInWA
Unregistered
JamieInWA
Unregistered
J



I thought there was only one STERILE line? dunno

Gotta go search through the archives now.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: ] #980726
07/24/10 08:54 PM
07/24/10 08:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
From my conversations with Priscilla... I understand that from the original Mosaics, Snow White was the only one who did not produce sterility in her offspring. The others in the group given to her were so highly inbred as to produce sterility.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: wildlifeangel] #980731
07/24/10 09:07 PM
07/24/10 09:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
T
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave
tjlong  Offline
Glider Slave
T

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
Quote:
Tilly is a sterile line, champ is not sterile. Tilly was paired with another male, a WF named casino and produced sterility.

There are many different sterile mosaic lines, there is Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca and maybe a few others.

Priscilla took on only about 8 mosaics when she got them from Helen. It was believed that to produce mosaics there were hets. So that is how the sterility came about from continuous inbreeding.

Champ most likely came from the mosaic line, several joeys from the original mosaics appeared champagne.

I know Mother white was wild caught. She didn't live long. I think when she came in, a few others did-some of which might have been the ones listed above....not sure though. Odds are they are all related. What are the odds of catching such a different color in the wild and them not being related.

Anyways, we have snow white who is producing, this is most likely b/c it hadn't been inbred to the point of sterility.

A majority of mikes stuff came from helens line, so again related to the other mosaics.

There is NO record of any of the breedings done before priscilla got them. The records were according to helen eaten by her praire dogs. I doubt she kept records of the breedings anyways as it was not common or known to do so many years ago.

So there is my knowledge based on the 2 years working at TPG.

Take it or leave it,... but thats what i know!!!


This is what I found.
Sorry that was originally posted 5/11/10 by Tyler (GliderBoy4Life)

Last edited by tjlong; 07/24/10 09:17 PM.

Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

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Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: tjlong] #980917
07/25/10 10:03 AM
07/25/10 10:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Are we risking the same results with "doubles" like in dog genetics. The genetics of these colorings in dogs works like that of mosaic, only one parent is needed of these colorings to produce an offspring of the same coloring.

Dapple/Dapple= Double Dapple- risk of blindness & deafness

Merle/Merle= Double Merle- risk of same results

The same results appear in Snakes as well. Also what about the Scottish Fold cats- 2 folds makes a double fold and they have severe bone structure issues.

All these examples in other species are the results of doubling the dominant gene, so why wouldn't there be the same risks in doubling the dominant gene with Mosaics?

There are many other health risks involved that are not seen at a young age.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: jacknsally] #980982
07/25/10 11:36 AM
07/25/10 11:36 AM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Are we risking the same results with "doubles" like in dog genetics. The genetics of these colorings in dogs works like that of mosaic, only one parent is needed of these colorings to produce an offspring of the same coloring.

Dapple/Dapple= Double Dapple- risk of blindness & deafness

Merle/Merle= Double Merle- risk of same results

The same results appear in Snakes as well. Also what about the Scottish Fold cats- 2 folds makes a double fold and they have severe bone structure issues.

All these examples in other species are the results of doubling the dominant gene, so why wouldn't there be the same risks in doubling the dominant gene with Mosaics?

There are many other health risks involved that are not seen at a young age.


These are good points and questions that I would like to hear some answers about too.

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