feeding live rodents

I bought my gliders a dwarf hamster from the pet store and my female didnt really care to much about it so I put my male in a seperate smaller cage with the live hamster and he grabbed it by the head and crushed the hamsters skull with his teeth/jaws... I didnt know that gliders had such stronge, powerful jaws. He ate its head, skin, and some of its insides but he got full after about an hour of eatting so I threw the rest of the carcass away. I think I will continue to give him rodents (hamsters, mice, baby rats) about every month or so. I have pics if anyone wants to see them just PM me cause they are pretty grousome. I had to leave the room while he ate it because it was to much for my stomach to handle but I did hear it when he crushed the skull, the hamsters eyes bulged and everything, but the hamster didnt suffer, Duke grabbed him and killed him so fast that the hamster didn't even know what hit him and he didnt even make a sound. Well that was my experience with feeding live rodents. Its very enriching for the gliders to catch their own prey and it was an educational experience for me to watch him kinda watch his prey and wait for the right moment and then to strike, it was very amazing because he is 1 year old and has only had pinky mice and never anything alive.

A dwarf hamster?

Whaaaaaaa, we have a cute little dwarf hamster as a family member <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />

The circle of life... and it moves us all...

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

I own dwarf hamsters to but this one was bought from a petstore so it wasnt a personal pet.

And yes sugarblossoms you read correctly, a dwarf hamster. I actually perfer to give them rather then a pinky.

tbull - the hammie didnt suffer, it was all over real quick.

I actually encourage people to try a dwarf hamster rather than a mouse, dwarf hamsters dont have long tails and they arent as mean... the dwarf hamster didnt bite my glider or even harm him one bit when my glider was sniffing him and checking him out, I know some mice arent mean but I have seen some gliders get nasty bites from mice so I would rather stick with a hamster.

I'm Appalled! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/needhug.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />

I just do not have the constitution to offer live… I will stick with the frozen pinkies… as Mikey noted … the circle ….

Oh goodness....

So, next question being:

How old should a glider be before offering a pinky, hamster or otherwise?

AND...

You get pinky's frozen...do you thaw them 1st then serve or....?!?! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

Never a pretty topic...

I used to give live pinkies to my kids every so often. It doesn't bother me, but they seem to like mealies better! I still pick one up as a treat every now and again, but I usually stick to only giving pinkies to my sto.

BABsnooky2 - Im not sure how old they need to be. I didnt thaw mine out before I served them and my male at them right up.

Ok, so you have dwarf hamsters as pets, but weren't "attached to this one" so it was ok....sighs... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

I saw a fuzzy little dog in the middle of the road today, but it wasn't my pet dog, so I sped up and smashed him with my car...but it was over real quick, and the vultures got a meal??!!!!

Sorry, just my two cents, I don't understand the thrill of killing a poor innocent hamster, oh well

(PS I have owned hamsters for years, and was just saddened because you seemed to be gleeful about the whole thing!)

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/needhug.gif" alt="" />

I wasnt all "gleeful" about it, I was glad that my furbaby enjoyed his meal thats all.

I didnt get a thrill from killing the hamster, and I didnt kill it. I left the room while Duke ate his fill.

We all have different opinions on things and I made the choice to get him a hamster and so I did and he enjoyed it, so thats that... I didnt "enjoy" anything about it, its basically the same as feeding a mouse or a baby rat IMO... I've had both mice and rats as pets before and I would feed them to any of my pets if they would benefit from it.

To each his own, I have also have had rats and mice and don't feel the need to subject one of my pets to cruelty even if it does benefit the other, you are saying that if it would benefit my dog I should feed him my sugar glider??!! I understand your point but it upsets me that you say you keep
them as pets, define pet...a pet is something you protect etc...in my eyes hamsters, since i had hamsters as pets I just find it cruel and unecessary, to each his own of course, I just found it odd that you have hamsters as pets and you are feeding them, whatever though...continue on...I have to go feed my glider to my dog now, because I think it will benefit him, dogs are carnivores after all!

(This was not meant to be literal, dear lord please no one think I would EEEEVVVVVEEER do that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Cari

PS...I was referring to gleeful because of ur description, and that fact that you offered pics to those who pm you, like it was sport or something.

If u think I have fed my PETS to my gliders I have not, I was simply saying that I have HAD rats/mice in the past and I would/could go out tomorrow and buy a feeder mouse/baby rat and feed it to my gliders, I would NEVER feed one of my pets to my gliders. The hamster was BOUGHT from a petstore for the purpose of feeding it to my gliders, I did not feed one of my hamsters. I was not saying that I went and fed a PERSONAL PET to my glider this hamster was bought strictly for food and nothing else.

I only offered the pics to people who wanted to see them for the purpose of letting them know what they should expect because the people that PMed me were intrested to know what it would be like to feed live prey. I did not offer the pics to be like "look how cool it is, my gliders eatting a hamster"... the pics were for people to see how messy it is and what to expect and nothing more.

I am sorry if you are offended, that was not my intent... I was just letting people know what my experience was. Again you have your opinions and I have mine and I dont intend to change my mind about feeding live prey to my gliders. I did it for enrichment purposes, health wise, and to stimulate my gliders... in the wild they would capture and kill their prey so maybe once a month or so I will go and get a hamster/baby rat/mouse for my glider to enjoy... like I said before it benefits him alot.

Come on guys..back off her case. It was for eduational purposes and Ive done a very similar thing around 5-6 years ago. Most people didnt even know what a glider was, nevermind feeding prey animals. I set up a site that showed what eating a frozen/thawed mouse was like so everyone who wanted to know, could see.

http://www.geocities.com/gliderlove/Mousefeed.html

This page has been around forever and Ive never caught any flak for it so neither should she. Ive fed all kinds of live animals to my gliders. In fact, I feed my cat a prey model raw meat diet.

We also have hamsters as pets and have for over 35 years. This is the FIRST time in our lives here that we have ever heard of one being fed to another animal on purpose. Dwarf hamsters here are also pretty expensive as they ARE considered pets. Yes, to each their own but I too felt this was a gleeful type post as was mentioned above. As far as gliders eating hamsters in the wild, they don't. Many of us feel sick to the tummy reading this.

Many people do lots of things, it's when it's offered like this as a happy event along with pictures when it gets frightnening for some. I am one of the some. I realize pet shops sell feeder mice for snake food and other things but to actually WATCH a live animal being ripped apart and eaten by another animal, especially by a pet just seems morbid. This is my opinion that won't change either.

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This is the FIRST time in our lives here that we have ever heard of one being fed to another animal on purpose.

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Perhaps you missed all those news reports on Aochan(rat snake) and Gohan(dwarf hamster). Ill help:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1518131
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10903211/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4627950.stm

Its also fairly common to find dwarf hamsters for sale as snake food. I believe kingsnake.com has links to rodent feeder breeders that sell em.

But PETSTORES don't sell FEEDER hamsters...these are tame hamsters meant to be pets, the snake food mice are BRED as snakefood, not tame...not colored, etc etc

Sorry this just disturbs me. I know you are not feeding ur pet hamsters, I was just trying to understand how someone could feed one TYPE of their pet to another...runs of to feed neighbors cat to my DOG?

...hey, its not my cat...

Ok, starting now I will try with all of my heart not to come back and look at this thread.

To each his own, but I do find it cruel and unusually, its a hamster for gosh sake, a cute sweet cuddly hamster....

I think I will stick to mealies!!

Just because it came from the pet store does not meant it was a pet. Our pet store sells hamsters and pinkys that are not in the pet section for people to purchase to feed to their animals.

Although I could never stomach feeding live animals to my gliders, I understand why people do. It is enrichment and very much better back to nature and how they are in the wild. Every animal eats other animals for the most part.

You are all getting so sarcastic and upset <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />. If you don’t like what you are reading in this post why do you keep coming adding fuel to the fire.

I get upset when I read the real stories, so I simply don’t go there anymore. It’s easy, if you think the title of a post is something you will not like don’t read it.

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3. Diet bashing will not be tolerated. If you wish to promote a diet then do it on fact rather than by directly or indirectly flaming another diet. If you have something negative to say about BML or any other diet, then be prepared to have GC administration approved proof before you post. We suggest you research diets and choose the one you believe best for your gliders.



4. Be polite,courteous and respectful to other board members at all times. Diversity of opinion is welcome. Abusive, flaming or inappropriate comments toward another person or a person's thoughts , ideas, or creations will not tolerated under any circumstances. Please help us keep the board a friendly, helpful, “G” rated place for entire families. Illegal substances, flaming, sexually explicit, cursing, spamming, and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators.


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Rules 3 and 4 cover everything, sometimes we all need a refresher course on the rules.

Chaungo1 - <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> thank you! for the reminder i was reading through this thread and was going to do that myself!

Xglider / Moderator

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

when did dwarf hamsters become tame? when i worked at the petstore they were the meanest little boogers we had. In fact when we had more deaths out of that cage than anything else. and I wouldnt touch one because they would always bite. of course i think hamsters are mean in general unless you get them young. also femalecheetah did point out that she left the room so she wouldnt have to see that. also WOW i didnt know they would eat rodents. i figured crickets and mealies sure, but rodents? arent rodent like as big as they are? remember im still new and havent seen one in real life.

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But PETSTORES don't sell FEEDER hamsters

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I worked in a pet store and if a hamster bit me I would sell it as food. I got bit alot by the drawf hamsters, yes they are more expensive but to some people it was worth it. People would also buy G-pigs and Rabbits for their snakes. I didn't like it, but if the snake doesn't eat he will die. It is the way of life. Sad but true.

Out in the wild gliders will eat small birds and rodents. I stick with the pinky mice though because they are already frozen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please lets not get all heated. Like someone said (kind of).. If you are not happy reading this then all you got to do is click onto a different thread.

Thank you for those that understand. And the petstore that I got the hamster at was family owned and did sell dwarf hamsters as food... I only paid $5 for the feeder hamster when the pet hamsters are $10. And like Gary B said I left the room, I wasn't sitting their watching it happen, I couldnt stomach it.

Gary B - dwarf hamsters are smaller then sugar gliders.

Ok...
The whole you feeding a hamster to a suggie doesnt bother me as much as you feeding a LIVE hamster to a suggie bothers me. I have fed a few pinkies to my suggies but i WILL NEVER feed anything that will bite back. Im sorry, but i just refuse to take that risk with one of my suggies, why take the chance, with an animal that you love so dearly, of him/her getting hurt rather severley, even a hamster will fight back rather viciously if being attacked. I dont care how stimulting it is for them! Gosh, i know snakes are great killers, but i still stun the mouse or feed frozen.thawes because the snake could get hurt by a scared mouse (ever seen how bad a rodent bite can actually be?) But take no offense, just my .02 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

offense not taken

I was suprised at how fast my suggie grabbed the hamster and killed it, the hamster didnt even have time to react so its safe to say that Duke didnt get hurt.

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offense not taken

I was suprised at how fast my suggie grabbed the hamster and killed it, the hamster didnt even have time to react so its safe to say that Duke didnt get hurt.

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When I fed my gliders a live rat "hopper" my female, Cherie grabbed it immediately and had her bottom teeth through its skull before it even had a chance. However, it did do a lot of screaming before it died. That was difficult to hear. I actually did that at my vets office when I worked for her. We both watched in astonishment. She actually got her gliders from me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She was breeding feeder rats in her office. They were definitely well bred and healthy parents.

Cheetah I'm on your side on this one.

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But PETSTORES don't sell FEEDER hamsters...these are tame hamsters meant to be pets, the snake food mice are BRED as snakefood, not tame...not colored, etc etc

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Just thought I'd mention - whether they're marketed as feeders or not, it does not change the value of the animal. The colour of an animal's pelt or its tameness does not make it more or less ideal to be fed (or not to be fed) to another animal. In other words, I feel it would be wrong to say it's OK to feed feeder mice but not OK to feed fancy mice. Get my drift?

Agreeing with what Kim is saying, dwarf hamsters are definitely on the market as feeder animals. Whether they are fed live or not is simply a question of personal preference. There are many advantages of feeding rodent feeders live (and cons, too).

I also have owned hamsters and rats and mice, both as pets and feeders. I always feed my gliders whole, live prey, and they have had mealworms, crickets, waxworms/silkworms/hornowrms (and they're adult moth forms), beetles, cockroaches, rats, mice, fish, rough green snakes, crawfish, and even a young girbil. All these animals are of equal worth and of equal value to me. Feeding a mealworm is just as gruesome as feeding a gerbil. I don't consider myself indifferent nor heartless; I just see things differently, perhaps.

[:"red"]Moreover, who are we to make judgements on morality in the animal kingdom, anyway? Was it even moral in the first place to capture these wild animals and begin establishing domestic pet populations?[/]

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mikey and Kim at least some people understand.

Cheetah, Mikey - I understand where you are coming from on feeding live pinkies, hampsters or whatever to a glider, it's part of the food chain and it really doesn't matter whether they are raised for feeders or pets. In the wild it's natures way of recycling and keeping things in balance. BUT it's not something I can bring myself to do - live or frozen. I'm doing good to give Stryder dormant meal worms. That's the reason I get along so well with ground meat for personal use - it doesn't look like anything I recognize. If I had to do the processing of any kind of meat, you would probably see a prospective vegan.

My feelings about anyone feeding pinkie, etc.? If you can deal with it and you feel it's good for your glider - go for it. It doesn't mean you are a bad, mean person. You are doing what you feel is best for your glider.

aside from the cruely issues. Gliders are raised many generations in the usa. their not out in the wild anymore in this country not are they imported any longer. I personally wouldnt chance my gliders getting a bacteria that these animals might carry and pass along to my gliders. there was a news reprort this summer on a few people who got a bacteria from hampsters and died. and if that can happen to a person i wouldnt chance my glider. no pinkies, no rodents no nuts and no crickets are fed to my gliders. there are more nutrishious things you can feed. in australia the captive gliders get a occassional hard boiled egg. or better yet order the wombaroo high protein supplement from austalia they will benefit from that more than the hampster.

If it is ok to feed a hamster to a glider, then it is definitly ok to feed a glider to a dog, I don't understand why everyone doesn't understand that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you would like to feed your glider to a dog, then so be it. Its your glider. I choose to feed other animals to my gliders so whatever you choose to do - do it.

It was a metaphor--I would never have the heart to do it,though some on her may have that heart. Then again I would never have the heart to freeze a live little baby mouse...so what is my opinion worth, no more than the next person's opinion. I just don't understand the benefit to it, they can actually contain deadly diseases/bacteria and I would never chance that, expecially in a captive glider whose immunodefenses are less than a wild glider.

As far as being sarcastic, I wouldn't call it that, I was just expressing an opinoin, and was not bashing anyone, I was just trying to understand the whole thing, motive...etc.

I would not feed a glider to a dog, or a cat to a dog, ect...which is why I wouldn't feed a hamster to a glider..etc, I was actually more concerned because the poster lists that they own 28 dawrf hamsters...hmmmm. Again, not bashing...just stating concerns, etc..I understand the bug thing, I just would never feed an animal raised for the purpose of a pet to another pet, and even if some find it hard to believe, these hamsters are sold as PETS, I have also worked in a pet store. The guinea pig thing to snakes I would be just as adament about.

I would be more worried about viruses and bacteria though in LIVE rodents, those are VERY VERY common in rodents, but if people want to chance it...

This is a classic case of TMI (too much information)! Even television gives warning of GRAPHIC material to give the person watching the channel the opportunity to change channels or turn off the television. Just as you stated that you could not watch your glider eat the hamster, you also stated that the hamsters eyes bulged out. This is disturbing to me as it is to many other people as our minds have a way of bringing up that image and holding onto it.

Either a warning of graphic material or simply stating that (as you said in the heading of the post) feeding live rodents is gross and leave it at that without going into detail of how another animal got its skull crushed and eyes popped out wouldn't have caused hurt to others.

The key here is to respect everyone.

gogogliders did not mean she would feed her glider to a dog or anything else. That was obvious by how it was said. Simply stating to another person that a pet is a pet. Period. I called 5 pet shops in our area and 2 of the large chain pet stores to ask about feeding dwarf hamsters and guinne pigs and if they sold them as feeders. NOT ONE said yes. However, ALL of them thought I was prank calling. Now that makes me feel better as not only anyone I know has fed hamsters or guinne pigs but neither has the pet stores anywhere around here or our nearest large city.

Again, yes, they are your pets. No one can tell you what to feed them or how to raise them but PLEASE don't make fun of HOW you do it and know that many other people have hamsters as pets and this was very hurtful for some.

Well, I look at it like this. Im careful about where I buy from(for my gliders and for my cats raw diet). I must be doing something right as Ive had my gliders for 9 years now and never had an issue. I believe I will continue taking that chance. I chance it everytime I eat or feed raw meat to my cat(which I will risk that instead of feeding her that garbage kibble). My sugar gliders parents ARE wild caught. I met them after my joeys were born all those years ago. Also, I realize you would never feed a glider to a dog. I also realize people are saying "its cute, dont feed it". That is honestly the lamest thing Ive heard yet. Cows are cute and HUMANS eat cows! Deer, duck, rabbit. We as humans eat these things and they are cute. Now what? Do we need to stop that? No. Get real. Cute is in the eye of the beholder.
I used to have pet mice, breed pet hamsters and had pet dwarf hamsters. Ive fed mice and if it came to it, Id feed a dwarf hamster as well. I just dont see a reason to personally.

Also -
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expecially in a captive glider whose immunodefenses are less than a wild glider.

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I dont believe that. At least not for my gliders..and they havent been bred for that long in captivity. They are still fairly new.

Don't feel upset by it all, gogogliders! There are many that feel like you do, and choose not to feed live prey.

If you want to know why I feed live here it is:

I just like the fact that a live animal has its full nutrients all in tact, all fully digestible, all in its natural form. The process of freezing (or even death) chemically and physically alters the state of the cells of a prey item, and especially over time, you end up with an animal that may be less nutrient-rich due to the degradation of its nutrients. If you would like a list of exact nutrients affected by freezing and frozen water, please feel free to PM me and I will forward you the list. Even death itself alters the physical/chemical state of an animal. As mentioned, animals that have already died long before they actually end up in your gliders mouth, have cells/nutrients that have already begun to decompose, denature, etc. A process called autolysis begins immediately after the animal dies, as soon as blood circulation ceases, and the lysosomes in the cells release a biochemical which causes the cells and its organelles to die and denature in large numbers. Putrefaction is one of the final processes that occurs after death. This is the decomposition of the body by microorganisms such as bacteria and fungi (including E.Coli found within the animals' intestines). To me, there is just no way that I can guage how long they have waited after killing the prey items to freeze the animals, so I opt to just feed them fresh and live. Anyway, the point is I feel when I feed a prey item that is live with its nutrients 100% in tact, then I don't have to feed live items as often. I am down to once a month (or 2) right now for my Chante. It's not a bad thing to feed frozen animals; I just feed live and less frequent.

Also, consider the taste of a steak fresh from the shop/slaughter house/farm (unfrozen) and a steak that has been thawed from the freezer after being frozen for a few weeks. Again, this is due to the chemical/physical altering as a result of freezing.

With many animals, movement is an important visual stimulant for appetite. Doesn't your stomach grumble or mouth water when you smell your favourite food, or when you see something delicious-looking on the Food Network?

Prey items like small rodents, are rich in protein, iron, calcium, and other nutrients.

If one is concerned about parasites, they can do what I do, and contact the nearest fancy mouse breeder who you are certain has dewormed his/her stock and ask to purchase his/her babies. Be sure to let him/her know you are feeding them to gliders, though. S/he may be upset if s/he finds out after s/he has sold them to you.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Mikey... I think I covered the graphic nature of the post when I said "feeding live rodents is gross"... I did not mean for it to be disturbing to anyone, I was simply sharing my experience IN FULL DETAIL for those that wish to feed live rodents will get an idea of what it would be like... I didnt want to leave anything out.

Oh yeah I only have 23 dwarf hamster not 28, and yes they are all pets but if I go and buy from a petstore or private breeder I am not attached to the animal, again I say it is just like feeding a mouse to a snake... I feel the same way that Mikey does and I like to feed live prey for the same reasons too. I also feel that is enriching and stimulating for my gliders. I realize that I shouldnt have gotten a petstore hamster and I will make sure to get whatever rodent from a breeder to make sure that they do not have parasites or anything wrong with them but I will still feed them again, I dont regret it.

I understand that some people are upset... but IMO its no different then us KILLING and eatting cows, pigs, deer, etc, they were alive right before PEOPLE killed them... and its no different then feeding ur pet a raw diet, its virtually the same except its not alive when they eat it.

If my ferrets would eat meat I would feed them rabbit, hamsters, mice, rats, etc because alot of domesticated PET ferrets LOVE them but mine unfortunantly dont like meat... eatting other animals is a way of life, its nature.

Again these are my personal beliefs and my opinions. If you dont like what u hear quit posting... I wont change my mind about it.

Hm. Lots of things here, lol.
I didn't think she was boasting, laughing, making fun, or being gleeful about it. She was informing us. Alot of people are curious about feeding live animals to their pets.

I would never do it. I can barely feed live mealworms. But then again, I see nothing wrong with it. It is the circle of life and there should be no guilt or shame in taking part (in this sort of way I mean, not in a cruel way) And helping the gliders do what is natural. Like was said by, I think Mikey, wasn't it cruel for us to take these animals from their homes and domesticate them? The least we can do is make this life as much like the life they would have. (I'm starting to feel guilty for not feeding them that stuff now....)

I have owned mice, rats, hamsters, dwarfs. I must say the dwarfs were the meanest.... but I have even bought feeder mice as pets. I would rather feed a mouse ment as a pet because at least that mouse got a nice little life, were as feeders DON'T (usually) have nice little lifes before their ended.

I see no difference in feeding a feeder mouse, a fancy would be pet mouse, rat, baby chick, etc. etc. And, if dogs needed meat in that form in their diet, I wouldn't think down on anyone for feeding a sugar glider to it........ but it would confuse me a lot. It was noones pet first, she didn't sneak into her neighbors house and steal their 5 year olds hamster. She bought it for that purpose and that was it. (And, frozen mice are killed before their frozen arent they? That kinda confused me.)

Like I said, I couldn't do it, but I don't object to it. I'm just to weak to do it, knowing it's fate. I used to be able to feed mice to snakes and all, and I wouldn't have to turn away. I don't think I was cruel because of it, I don't think it's cruel to watch. It interested me, and I wanted to know how it happened and the proccess. I can't do that now though. (tramatizing experience...)

Anyways back on track, I also wanted to throw in that I agree, cows, pigs, lambs, etc. etc. are cute but I haven't met many people who will call us evil for eating them. I won't eat them on the soul purpose that they were born for us to eat and they didn't have a good life. But, if my dad or uncle go hunting I will eat the meat they bring home, because they use everything, and they kill with one shot and the animal had a nice life. Animals who eat other animals go for the fastest kill, and I don't see how it can be cruel. (wow I've rambled huh?)

(off topic)
and kim, that is pretty interesting. I heard that is healthier for cats and dogs(raw meat) but doesnt all the cost add up pretty quickly?
(and i dunno if that was called bad or not, but i also wanted to point out, before your called cruel, that there is meat in dog and cat kibble, i think, so the only difference is that kims cats get more nutrients.)

If people can feed live animals, then great! It is good for the gliders, both mentally and all the other heath ways. If someone was going to do it for mine I wouldn't object, as long as I could leave the house until it was all gone. I think people who are willing to do all this for their gliders are great owners.

Not to say that people who don't do it are bad, they can be great as well. (I dont do it either.) I'm not saying that NOT doing it is cruel or bad or makes you a bad owner. But I think it is wrong to call someone cruel for doing it, when her intentions weren't to watch something die, but to help her pet live happier and healthier.

I understand everyones point...but please understand that some of us have hamsters and it is very hurtful that this was dog... I GUARANTEE that If I was new to this board and made a post that said, Hi..I just fed a sugar glider to my dog because it is good for him to use his natural instincts to capture prey that people on here would FREAK! This is the same "[censored] out" that us with hamsters are experiencing...as stated before it is the fact that this was bought as a domesticated pet from a PET store that makes it a little harder to ummm...digest--hehe no pun intended.

Anyways, I just think that everyone on here would be apalled if someone new posted that hey, I just fed a glider to a dog...and that is where i am at...I just can't get over it, and if you knew someone that did this with a glider I doubt you would either...

Sorry, just have a strong opinion on this and am BEGGING that more people don't start partaking in hamster feeding...PS..it has nothing to so with them being cute and cuddly, and all to do with these hamsters being pets, please leave the hamster there for some pet owner to come along and purchase...I beg you.

Actually, it appears that some people freeze live mice...just follow the links <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yep, I has to cry a few tears after that one...sniff, sniff

Well, I know the standard for killing rodent feeders before freezing is through Carbon Dioxide gas, which also by the way changes the overall pH level of the blood within the animals, and many nutrients are affected/denatured by acidic environments.

*pictures a group of baby mice freezing to death* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />

I dont think dogs/gliders would make a good metaphor for hamsters/gliders. Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years, and have gone a long time already without having to eat live prey animals. Gliders have only been established here in North America from wild populations overseas for about 30 or so years, and that instinct to hunt and consume live prey is indeed still there and by no means dampened. Perhaps feeding a glider to your pet kinkajou would have made a better comparison. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

You are so right Mikey, thanks for the metaphor correction <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

OK, I decided to bite the bullet and go get a mouse for Badger & Roxy. I figured it would be good for them and me to test their natural instincts.

So I have the mouse in a critter carrier and after the gliders have been awake for a while I introduce the carrier to them. The lid is open so they can get in but the mouse can't get out.

They both do the 'unsure what's going on' jumps. Lots of darting back and forth etc. Then Badger gets up his courage and very shackily goes into the carrier. I'm looking away at this point and kinda waiting to hear a skuffle or something. After what seemed like an eternity I take a peek... Badger & Roxy and the mouse are all jammed in the container. Mouse is very much alive and sniffing the gliders,, they are doing the same to him. This goes on for about 5mins, the mouse was even climbing on the gliders. Then they get bored and jump out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />.

So today I had to go to the pet store for mouse supplies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />, and we have a new addition to the household.

I guess my gliders just don't have the killer instinct or are simply not hungry enough to go to all that trouble. They thought it was a cool new toy that moved and played with them.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad story.. depends on what side of the fence you are on.

Eeeek! Was it an adult mouse or one with teeth?

You might wanna try feeding pinkies. I've never fed adult/teenaged mice or rats that have their teeth formed and grown in. It may be rather dangerous, I feel.

I would totally believe that you have gliders that come from the minority of gliders that may be "live-prey-a-phobic". LOL! It's certainly possible...

I have read some interesting stories here on GC of folks and their gliders killing adult house mice and even button quails!

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

Yah, please please thpugh don't try ot again--LOL

I'm rooting for the mouse as pet, they are super-fun pets; and fun to watch.

(Begs again)

Serioulsy, please don't have it for a pet and then feed it a month or so later (Or try), ...begs again

Woop woop!!

Sorry, this made me happy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Chaungo1 - It was the same with my female glider, she didnt even bother with the hamster, she let it climb on her as well but Duke was all over it in a matter of seconds.

gogogliders - The hamster was not in the PET section it WAS a feeder hamster so this hamster would have been food for another animal anywas so it didnt matter that I bought it.

I wasnt laughing or being gleeful about anything when Duke killed/ate the hamster, I was simply sharing my experience for other glider owners that wish to feed live prey. Its all up to the individual whether they want their gliders to eat hamsters, mice, rats, etc... its a way of life. I hope that those of you who are saddened/upset/offended can understand WHY I did it.

No the mouse is not an adult, it is tiny and I was told it was a baby. I'm just floored that neither glider saw him is food, but again they might not have been hungry. Do we know if gliders are opportunity killers (like a fox) or neccesty hunters?? Neither of my two are piggys, they just seem to eat their fill and stay trim and fit.

I'm not sure about keeping him/her as a pet.. mice just don't do it for me, I can't see myself getting cuddly with him *shudders*. I am sure when word gets out at work that he needs a home someone will step up to the plate <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

thats good too!!

Cheetah--I understand ur motives but still don't like em <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I also called pet stores and none of the major chains HAD EVER heard of feeder hamsters? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

What petstore was it then??

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I am sure when word gets out at work that he needs a home someone will step up to the plate .

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I promise it will be a forever home with no mouse eating animals <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

Thank you so much--LOL

I can't be gettin my hopes up now, to have them crushed later...that would be waaaayy too hard on the heart!

I had two fancy mice...brownie and ice-cream, that just passed away about 2 months ago...which led me to the gliders!

At one time I seriously had a small zoo, now its just the ferrets and two gliders I pick up Tuesday...babies are finally comin home <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

Yah, if ya read the signature of mine, you will see where the rodent sympathy comes from <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

whaaaaaaa! I knew I was avoiding this post for a reason. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I have heard of people doing this. I could never. I couldnt even feed a dead one...I would cry if my husband did this. Still, I understand the reason for it. I just wish I had kept avoiding this thread. lol!

hmmmm....i've fed frozen pinkeys before but very interesting Mikey about the change in their bodies after freezing. I never thought about that. Maybe I will have to try live. I think i will stick with mice though, I just think dwarf hampsters are expensive as feeders at $5. I dont even spend that per meal for myself most of the time!
Which brings me to my next point, I dont think gliders are really a very economical choice for dog food. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was speaking on behalf of principle, not economics <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yea, just make sure if you do try live that you rule out any possibility of parasites, by purchasing either from a breeder who deworms her/his stock or by buying pinkies of fancy mice (though there is still the possibility there).

Or I've also found success with having my own breeding pair, and simply deworming them myself. All you need is a basic dewormer (e.g. panacur) and ensure you follow the instructions on dosage and cycling. That way you can also fatten up the parents with premium feed, the vitamins/nutrients of which pass right on to the young, and you can thereby ultimately control exactly what your gliders are eating (kind of like having your gliders eat Grade A beef, as opposed to something that may be like ground beef from Tacobell <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ). The gestation period of mice is about 18-20 days and they are ready to conceive 2-5 days after the litter. For rats the gestation is about 28 days. Each litter provides you with more than enough for the gliders.

It's also a good idea if you have other pets requiring live prey. Back when I owned 13 tarantulas, 3 scorpions, a large white's treefrog, 2 savannah monitors, 2 German Giant Beardies, and a glider, having pinkies every 20 days from a breeding pair of rats/mice was quite convenient and cost efficient.

There may be a problem for the weak hearted, though. You may be attatched to the "pets" and not want to feed the babies, in which case perhaps getting a breeding pair wouldn't be a good idea.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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(off topic)
and kim, that is pretty interesting. I heard that is healthier for cats and dogs(raw meat) but doesnt all the cost add up pretty quickly?
(and i dunno if that was called bad or not, but i also wanted to point out, before your called cruel, that there is meat in dog and cat kibble, i think, so the only difference is that kims cats get more nutrients.)

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Actually the cost isnt bad at all. No worse than paying 15-20$ for a bag of "premium" cat food. There are ingredients in cat food that cats cannot utilize so it just comes out in the waste. Why pay for waste? When fed raw, there is much less waste, much less dental cleanings, and better health. I dont trust the safety of cat/dog foods and prefer to know what goes into my cats body, down to every last drop of water.
http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html

interesting that they thought of it like a friend/toy. oh and lol on the new pet you now have <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

gogogliders - I didnt get my feeder hamster from a petco or petsmart, I got it from a locally owned petstore.

I was considering raising my own breeder mice for the purpose of consumption but my other pets, my gliders and birds. I dont know if my birds would eat pinky mice but they eat mealworms. Duke likes pinky mice but he is messy with them. I am thinking that I could have a breeding pair of two of my hamsters and when they have young just use those when they are pinkies... since I have other cages and what not... Im trying to decided if I should go and buy mice or use pinky hamsters.

Petsmart and Petco in my area will not sell live feeders, only frozen. The small family owned pet store I worked for (has been around for 30 years) does sell all types of rodents as feeders. Call a small pet shop. Don't ask for feeder hamsters, but ask for do you sell hamsters for snake food. Basically the same thing but different <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Some may not but there are those pet shops out there that will. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Gosh this is a heated topic and I see both sides of the sepctrum, but honestly, unless you are a vegan or a vegitarian, non of us have anyroom to talk because while we might not give the killing blow, a cow wouldn't die if we didn't eat beef. My two cents and I wont post again because I dun wanna heat this up LOL

i haven't finished reading up the rest of this thread, got curious about Kim's website so i went.. and after the queazy feelings went away i started looking more closely and realised what was the big ad on the paper! Talk about irony! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I'm just pretending this thread doesn't exist...

*huggles her dwarf hamster*

After reading this I talked to my friend about it, and she told me that her brother has been feeding his snake dwarfies for about 2 years now for alot of reasons. I don't remember where he buys them... but they are sold as feeders and bred to be feeders.
I still don't see why its bad to feed darfs and not mice or pinkies. Lol, and I still say that if another animal needed live prey and a sg was the BEST choice, I would do it... (well, if I could stomach doing live prey.)
... I feel so sad for my babies that their missing out on good stuff and I'm wondering if they'll be any less healthy because of it....

I do it for enrichment purposes and health purposes... my male glider LOVED catching and killing his own prey and it made me happy to know that he was happy.

I think that everyone should give it a try atleast once because of the benefits for your gliders.

Personally, I can't feed live-mine work fine with frozen. I had a heck of a time feeding my son's snake live feeder mice/rats several years ago...and found the snake a new home, when I'd get physically ill every time. In the wild, there is a food chain, and I do understand that prey animals are just that-prey, as much as it can sicken an animal lover at the death of ANY small animal, and the cuter they are, the harder it tends to be for some. My hat is off, however, to those who can stomach it. GC isn't here to bash anyone's choices. As nasty as the truth is, gliders in the wild will eat live baby birds and rodents should they happen upon them. The only concern I would have with live rodents for gliders-and we did try live ONCE for a pregnant mom-is that the risk of parasites or other contagions goes up dramatically, that can be passed to the glider. Petco's mice on ice are guaranteed free of contagious agents, so once we discovered those, that's how we went-relieved that I didn't have to watch it die, or know that it was, and I'll admit that.

I would like to remind everyone that we are all here for the good of the glider-no matter what the choices an owner makes for the good of theirs, if it doesn't agree with you, please state so NICELY and avoid generalities like "everyone should" and "no one should", etc., as everyone's choices are different-some can tolerate things that are unthinkable to another, but as long as no harm is done to the animal we all love, we need to respect other's choices. We don't want people afraid to post on issues like this because they will get bashed for it, and hopefully no more replies like earlier ones are posted-if you have nothing constructive to add..whether you agree or disagree, please refrain from posting. There are better ways to disagree.