GliderCENTRAL

Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!!

Posted By: petsugargliders

Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 02:46 PM

I was recently contacted by an "owner" in PA as she was researching her new pet that she bought over the weekend at a farm expo in PA. She was devastated to learn her new pet was illegal. I advised her as much as I could, and told her to contact the news to see if they would consider doing a story. There were MANY sold at the market by a "breeder" that was only supposed to be selling frogs. It turns out they DID do the story!! They even spoke with the wild life protection officer and the game commission where they ADMIT they are ILLEGAL in the state! I don't know if I can post the link here, so PM me if you would like to see it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 03:07 PM

oh wow! I'd like to see the link!
Posted By: gliderlover1

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 03:19 PM

Sad.. Some people are just plain horrible!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 03:48 PM

I would like to see that please
Posted By: BeckiT

Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 03:53 PM

poor babies and their unsuspecting new owners cry
Posted By: petsugargliders

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 04:13 PM

This whole thing is really sad. Cilly is a sweetie from what her owner has said. Cilly didn't deserve this, and neither did her owner. No one knows how many were really sold, but this guy 100% KNEW what he was doing was wrong.

Apparently a viewer of the news station said that he went up to the booth that was selling "frogs" to see what was getting all the attention. A guy named "Rodney" had sugar gliders all over him. The guy told "Rodney" that sugar gliders were illegal there, and he said that his were NOT for sale....even though he definitely sold MANY there to people that had no clue they were not legal there.
Posted By: dranger1108

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 04:18 PM

Poor glider, did anyone reconise the business card? I wonder what mill breeder sold there... wouldn't you be able to report them to the usda? Couldn't you risk your license selling them to a illegal state?
Posted By: Cora

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 04:56 PM

my word................did she say she paid $400???!!!! I dont know how those kinds of vendors sleep at night. That lady looks like she would make a good glider mommy.................................I cant believe the gliders are still illegal in that state. The tropical areas I understand...........................he said its for the safety of the people that they are illegal??!!!!

Posted By: petsugargliders

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 05:01 PM

What we do know is they guys name was Rodney that actually sold the sugar gliders and ran the booth at the expo called "Wild Creations". He handed out pamphlets from "Pocket Pets of Dallas Grand Prairie, TX".

The name/phone number of Steve Larkin was on the top of her "paperwork". The company that went through on her credit card was called "Wild Creations Myrtle Beach S.C".

Apparently she had contacted this Steve Larkin and was told that it was likely a man named Rodney Taylor that sold the sugar gliders at the PA expo. He said "I know Rodney and he is a very conscientious breeder and lover of Sugar Gliders." She tried to contact Rodney but never received a reply.
Posted By: JayAndDiana

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/16/08 05:12 PM

So sad.. for her and Cilly. She seems like a sweetie.
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/18/08 05:49 AM

If she paid with a CCard then this guy is gonna be I real trouble! Wonder if that constitutes fraud.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/18/08 06:39 AM

Jennifer, did you let her know about GC? Maybe somebody on the board can give Cilly a good home? She seems very sweet mlove
Posted By: tammyangel

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEWS!! - 02/18/08 07:31 AM

Somebody contacted the news station apparently trying to geta hold of her they have found a home for this little one if she can get a hold of the lady its on the comments on the link to the news .This is just awful tho and to me she shouldnt have to give up the glider legal or illegally since she was taken advantage of .
Posted By: gliderlover1

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 02/18/08 08:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Cora
.he said its for the safety of the people that they are illegal??!!!

Yah, that really irritated me.
I don't think they are a harm to anyone who is knowledgeable. But the more and more rescues I hear about I honestly do think a permit would be a good idea. As long as it was actually run with some kind of common sense and not just handed out like a fishing license. We all know how that would turn out. But at least.. I would think.. it would reduce impulse buys. I mean it would be more then.. aaawww there cute.. i want one. You would have to actually go about getting a license. As long as breeders couldn't sell them I guess.. I suppose there would always be a way around that too for them huh... dunno
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 02/18/08 09:57 AM

Aw that glider looked really sweet. It's a shame that happened, it looked like Cilly found a loving home... =(

Jenna that permit is a really neat idea. There could some sort of legal process to go through in order to sell and purchase a sugar glider. It could make it tough to find and buy one, but could weed out the impulse buyers.
If only one of our members was a lawyer... (holds breath thinking someone will raise their hand)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 02/18/08 11:37 AM

That is horrible. I just met one of Steve Larkin's newest breeders. I was at a restaraunt a few wks ago and saw a man with a pouch around his neck, so I struck up conversation. He said he's a breeder of "blondies" and kept saying how much money he was going to rake in. He felt he was SUCH an expert on gliders- yet he knew NOTHING about them. He was feeding pellets and knew nothing about pouches, euaclyptus (I had just bought some and was telling him about it) and he knew nothing about toys or keeping the family lines. All he could keep saying was how rich he was going to be and how lucky he was to have met Steve....

Steve seems to be an untouchable... kinda like bin laden- he has people everywhere, kept ignorant, and brainwashed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 02/18/08 11:57 AM

This is the exact reason we are moving to Maryland instead of Philadelphia I WILL NOT GIVE UP MY BABIES!!!!! So my boyfriend has to drive a little bit further he will be alright! That law is so stupid My gliders never come in contact with anyone but me or other suggie owners and I don't see how they can be a "threat" to anyone?? What exactly is he meaning by the safety of people I have never heard of anyone dying from a sugar glider?? I don't get it
Posted By: petsugargliders

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 02/18/08 04:15 PM

Quote:
Jennifer, did you let her know about GC? Maybe somebody on the board can give Cilly a good home? She seems very sweet \:mlove\:


I offered to make the drive to meet her daughter when she first contacted me. She really doesn't want to break the law, but she doesn't want to give up her baby. (Not that I blame her, she is really attached to Cilly, but at the same time knowing they are illegal is breaking her heart).

I did send her the link to GC, but I don't know if she signed up yet. smile
Posted By: TracieB

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 02/18/08 05:46 PM

Steve Larkin is Custom Cage Works. He sells at trade shows and sells the pellets Glider Grub (which I saw on a table in the news footage about Cilly) and sells the gliders with an 18"x18"x 24" cage and says that's plenty big for 2 gliders to live their entire life in. He'll sell you a bigger cage if you want one, but his prices are rediculous. At least that's how the gliders were sold when I got my first two. Yes, I was one of those unknowing impulse buyers and now hate the fact that I helped put money in this guy's pocket. He also sold me a fold down PVC travel cage that he said the gliders would be fine in for a week or two - it was 10"x10"x10 1/2". mad

I hope Cilly is able to find a new home, and that they will keep in contact with this poor woman who is having to give her up. She really did seem to be attached to little Cilly. cry
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 09:01 PM

I fail to see where, YOUR choices, where Steves fault. When he sold you the SG – he told you that this was the minimum size cage that you could use. So if you were concerned with the small size – buy bigger. As for the travel, fold down cage, he tells you that this is only to get your SG from one place to another. I’m sure that he told you that if you couldn’t take the BIG cage with you, having your SG in the travel cage, for up to two weeks would not hurt them. The travel cage was NEVER meant be you SG’s vacation home. But Steve was telling you that if your back was “against the wall” and this was your ONLY choice…it would not harm them. Again, that would be YOUR decision as to how many SG’s you pack into the accommodations that YOU are providing. When you buy from Steve, you get ALL the information that you need to get started and even his personal cell phone number, to call ANYTIME, that you have a problem or question. How many other breeders or pet stores, do you know, that you can reach ANYTIME you need them? So PLEASE explain to us – what Steve is doing wrong?
I am PROUD that I bought from Steve Larkin.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 09:06 PM

I only have one thing to say to your post, unless you were physically standing there when THIS glider was sold, how could you POSSIBLY KNOW what was said (unless you ARE this Steve Larkin person)? Glad you are proud, glad your babies are healthy and everything went smoothly but that is not always the case, it seems. JMHO.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 09:07 PM

Did you actually read any of this thread? Because "what he's doing wrong" is stated over and over.
Posted By: Mel2mdl

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: ABRB
So PLEASE explain to us – what Steve is doing wrong?


Ummm... selling in an illegal state where the glider will be seized and euthanized? I would assume the seller would know this. Also, if I saw them being sold near my house, I would assume they were legal.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: ABRB
How many other breeders or pet stores, do you know, that you can reach ANYTIME you need them?


Pet stores, no - because of course, they are part of the problem, since they buy from mill breeders.

Breeders? Every single one I've ever purchased any animal from. With the exception of the one glider I got from a mill breeder, before I knew. Actually, the mill breeder did give me his number. He just never answered it or returned phone messages once I purchased my glider from him.

Better yet- I've called and woken up people who DIDN'T sell me gliders - because I was in a panic and needed help. That is something that I don't take for granted AT ALL, however it is also something I sort of expect, now that I "know" the people here. Glider people have one another's back!
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ABRB
When you buy from Steve, you get ALL the information that you need to get started and even his personal cell phone number, to call ANYTIME, that you have a problem or question. How many other breeders or pet stores, do you know, that you can reach ANYTIME you need them? So PLEASE explain to us – what Steve is doing wrong?
I am PROUD that I bought from Steve Larkin.

I fail to see how you can state that you get ALL the information you need.

The diet he is pushing is not appropriate to start, if you would like to check out decent diets for a glider go to the "links" tab and look at the diets.

He is selling gliders in cages that are too small, a reputable breeder WILL NOT sell you a glider if you are going to put it in a small cage.

He is selling gliders in states where they are ILLEGAL.
Finally I guess it doesn't matter how many phone numbers he hands out if you can't get in touch with him when there is a problem & according to the news broadcast he can't be reached.

ANY good breeder will give their number in case there is a problem, the difference being a GOOD breeder will answer the phone when you call or return your call ASAP not ignore it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 10:11 PM

Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome


Better yet- I've called and woken up people who DIDN'T sell me gliders - because I was in a panic and needed help. That is something that I don't take for granted AT ALL, however it is also something I sort of expect, now that I "know" the people here. Glider people have one another's back!


Well said Alden....there are so many times we have come to this forum with an urgent question and always help would come.....With our last set of joeys (rejected) there were so many people both through pm and the telephone to help us it was incredible.....you can't get that just anywhere
Posted By: Srlb

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 10:16 PM

Quote:
How many other breeders or pet stores, do you know, that you can reach ANYTIME you need them?


Hmmm... CRITTER LOVE Pet Store in Portland Texas hands out her phone number. Not only her store number, but also her cell number AND her home number...doesnt matter WHAT KIND of pet they sell there.

They also INSIST that ANY animal that is purchased be taken to A REAL VET within 14 days for a wellness check and if ANYTHING at all in that time frame is found to be wrong they will cover the cost of all and any medication that is needed...

Is Steve willing to do that? I didnt think so, after all if he did, how many joeys would be returned to him because they are TOO YOUNG to be away from mom and dad?? How many bills would he get for DEHYRDRATION???

So please, do NOT come on here asking how many other breeders would do that when just about every single one of them, myself included has let our clients know that we are ALWAYS available....

Please do NOT condone a person who is selling a glider in an ILLEGAL state just to make a dollar. A life, no matter if human or animal, is worth so much more than a dollar.

It just amazes me, after all if these mill breeders really sold HEALTHY, OF PROPER AGE, and CORRECT INFORMATION, just how many more they would be able to sell. How instead of having a bad rep, they could have a good rep...

But then again, to do that, one must CARE about the health and wellbeing of a life.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 10:22 PM

Wonderfully said, Peggy!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: ABRB
I fail to see where, YOUR choices, where Steves fault. When he sold you the SG – he told you that this was the minimum size cage that you could use. So if you were concerned with the small size – buy bigger. As for the travel, fold down cage, he tells you that this is only to get your SG from one place to another. I’m sure that he told you that if you couldn’t take the BIG cage with you, having your SG in the travel cage, for up to two weeks would not hurt them. The travel cage was NEVER meant be you SG’s vacation home. But Steve was telling you that if your back was “against the wall” and this was your ONLY choice…it would not harm them. Again, that would be YOUR decision as to how many SG’s you pack into the accommodations that YOU are providing. When you buy from Steve, you get ALL the information that you need to get started and even his personal cell phone number, to call ANYTIME, that you have a problem or question. How many other breeders or pet stores, do you know, that you can reach ANYTIME you need them? So PLEASE explain to us – what Steve is doing wrong?
I am PROUD that I bought from Steve Larkin.


You're proud that you bought from Steve Larkin? Wow....that isn't something we hear often......

As has been stated, whether he sold the gliders standing on his saintly cloud from heaven above, he was selling them in an illegal state and well, for most of us, that just sort of gives the illusion that his halo is a tad bit crooked....

and again, he could hand out his phone number til the angels come home and if he doesn't answer it's all just more fluff and circumstance don'tcha think?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 10:33 PM

for 1 ILLEGAL STATE!!!! no RESPONSIBLE PERSON, BREEDER, ECT would ever sell in an ILLEGAL STATE!!!!!! that is nothing more than greed taking over and really goes to show he or anybody else that sells in illegal states dont give a [censored] about the animal or person!!!!!
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:18 PM

This is what I have at my home right now thanks to Steve Larkin.

IF this little one survives, it certainly will NOT be because he answered his phone or paid a single cent for the care this little one is receiving for early onset HLP, severe malnutrition, severe dehydration, a parasite and the SM that has happened because he is so miserable from all of the aforementioned conditions! This little one was pulled from his mother at 3 weeks OOP, and now at 8 weeks OOP is only 24 grams. THIS is what Steve Larkin sells. THIS is how much he cares. THIS is the condition that he leaves these precious lives in:


Naruto's Pictures

What exactly is he doing wrong? ............. Is that a real question?
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:25 PM

Those pics just brought me to tears....that poor, sweet, innocent baby! How can a supposed human do this????? Praying this little one can overcome this. Bless you for taking her in.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:30 PM

OMG Val that poor little baby. THANK GOD he has you.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:39 PM

do you have the news story ?? i would love to see it!!

It was REALLY hard to look at those pictures. Just AWFUL!
Posted By: petsugargliders

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:50 PM

I am not sure what happened to the link. I was given permission to post it here, but it seems to have been removed??

I sent you a PM with the link.
Posted By: TracieB

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:52 PM

First, let me just say that I don't believe Steve Larkin or CCW was the one to actually sell the gliders at this particular expo in PA. His name was mentioned here and I was just telling who he was.

Originally Posted By: petsugargliders
What we do know is they guys name was Rodney that actually sold the sugar gliders and ran the booth at the expo called "Wild Creations". He handed out pamphlets from "Pocket Pets of Dallas Grand Prairie, TX".

The name/phone number of Steve Larkin was on the top of her "paperwork". The company that went through on her credit card was called "Wild Creations Myrtle Beach S.C".

Apparently she had contacted this Steve Larkin and was told that it was likely a man named Rodney Taylor that sold the sugar gliders at the PA expo. He said "I know Rodney and he is a very conscientious breeder and lover of Sugar Gliders." She tried to contact Rodney but never received a reply.


Now my answers/comments:

Originally Posted By: ABRB
I fail to see where, YOUR choices, where Steves fault. When he sold you the SG – he told you that this was the minimum size cage that you could use. So if you were concerned with the small size – buy bigger.

I was concerned about the small size and questioned it several times, but he assured me that cage was big enough for them to live in for their entire lives. After I found GC and started getting better information for the health and happiness of my gliders, I did get them a bigger cage. I built a 2' x 3' x 6 1/2' PVC coated wire cage for a little more than what that small cage and travel cage cost me.

Originally Posted By: ABRB
As for the travel, fold down cage, he tells you that this is only to get your SG from one place to another. I’m sure that he told you that if you couldn’t take the BIG cage with you, having your SG in the travel cage, for up to two weeks would not hurt them. The travel cage was NEVER meant be you SG’s vacation home. But Steve was telling you that if your back was “against the wall” and this was your ONLY choice…it would not harm them. Again, that would be YOUR decision as to how many SG’s you pack into the accommodations that YOU are providing.

Actually, he never mentioned using this fold-down travel cage to get them from place to place. He said that it folds down flat so it's easy to pack in your suitcase. He also never said anything about "if your back was against the wall and it was your only choice....", he said it was big enough to house them for a week or two while on vacation. (By the way, I now put their pouch in it when I'm cleaning their big cage, and the pouch barely fits so I do not believe that they'd be fine in there for a day or two, much less a week or two.)

Originally Posted By: ABRB
When you buy from Steve, you get ALL the information that you need to get started and even his personal cell phone number, to call ANYTIME, that you have a problem or question. How many other breeders or pet stores, do you know, that you can reach ANYTIME you need them?

I did get information, a lot of it bad (heat rock with a T-shirt on the bottom of the cage, dry pelleted food as a staple, was told they don't pee and poo all over, etc). I was wrong in buying sugar gliders on impluse without a lot of research. I talked to him for several hours over a two day period. I thought that since he was a breeder that he was giving me the right information for the health and happiness of the gliders - I was wrong. And yes, I was given his cell number. When I got my gliders they had diarrhea and he told me it was from them eating too many apples at the show and that I should feed them grapes instead and get some Bene-bac to give them. I did that and it didn't help so I did call him. He said to give them more Bene-bac and wait a few days. I'm glad I didn't wait very long. I was so concerned that I took them to the vet and found that they had Giardia (which is not caused by eating too many apples). In the first six months that I had the two gliders that I bought from CCW, I spent over $3,000 in vet bills on them. Since then I have gotten one other glider and have that persons phone numbers, email, website address and can also contact them here...all anytime, but I've had no reason to other than just to give updates and send pictures. This glider has had no health issues.

Originally Posted By: ABRB
So PLEASE explain to us – what Steve is doing wrong?

Selling ill gliders for one thing. Giving out bad and/or incomplete information for another. Had I known all that was truly involved in caring for gliders I most likely would not have bought them. Of course once I did buy them, I knew they would have a forever home and I grew very attached to them. Again, the only research I did was talking to Steve for several hours then doing a few hours of research on the internet (unfortunately I didn't find GC until after I bought them). But, he is obviously in the business to make money and giving complete information would probably result in less sales.

Originally Posted By: ABRB
I am PROUD that I bought from Steve Larkin.
I'm embarassed that I did, but glad I was able to get these two gliders the medical help that they needed. Had I listened to Steve and just continued giving the Bene-bac waiting for their diarrhea to stop, they most likely would not have survived.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:57 PM

Who in the world is ABRB?? I must have missed that whole post!
Posted By: silverwolf

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/04/08 11:57 PM

I am also sorry to hear that you bought from steve. I was hoping that Utah was immune to his practices since I have never seen him at any events but I will definately keep my eye out for this guy now. I know how to be a squeaky wheel and I may not get him closed down but I will make it hard for him to come here to Utah and sell if at all possible. I have a glider that I didn't get from him but I got her from a not so reputable breeder and now I am having to deal with liver damage so don't say that just because you avoided problems that you won't have to deal with the repercussions later. Val I'm sorry to hear about your baby and I hope he pulls through no baby should have to have such a rough start.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:03 AM

Hate to bust everyones bubble - but Steve was NOT the one selling in PA and that is by your own forum info. It was NOT "Pocket Pets of Dallas". And I suppose Steve is the ONLY one in the world , who sells the "Pellets" that were seen on the table. Which unless you could read the label - looks just like other products that you all endorse or suggest here. What a closed minded bunch you are. I quess that, if I were a breeder, I would be knocking the competition too. As for the phone - I have NEVER had a problem reaching him, so I don't need to wake other people. If you go back and read the post about the breeder who did this, you will read that Steve was the one that revealed the REAL person responsible...so I guess he CAN be reached. You all are so busy slamming him that you don't even pay attention to your own posts. I never said that he gave you all the info that you,ll ever need.... but between the informative cd, the book, and the fact sheet that is included, with every SG - It IS everything that you need to get STARTED. By the way, it really isn't THAT hard to copy someone else's flyer at Kinko's or on ANY copier and hand them out as your own... the REAL perp wasn't even smart enough to change the flyer to his own business name. As for diet - Yes my gliders are Healthy, Happy and "ODOR FREE" - MY CHOICE. As Steve would tell you - "There is no "one right way" to raise or feed them." That is why we have these forums - to exchange ideas and success stories. But if slamming people makes you feel better - that's YOUR CHOICE.

HAVE A GREAT DAY
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:32 AM

Silverwolf - I don't understand this - "so don't say that just because you avoided problems that you won't have to deal with the repercussions later" I have had healthy gliders, for YEARS - what are the repercussions? And at what point is the breeder no longer responsible for the illness of the healthy glider that you bought. Do you blame the doctor who delivered your children for the illnesses that they get all through life? AMAZING
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:35 AM

No one is slamming you, ABRB -

Why don't you tell us more about your experiences, rather than starting from a defensive, angry, hostile and alienating tone?

If Steve is so great ... the fact is ... we ARE an open-minded group. We are all always willing to learn more about our gliders and their care.

So rather than attacking everyone for their opinions - please, back yours up.

If Steve is the terrific person you say he is ... that would be such wonderful news! That would be one less thing I'd loose sleep over at night! Please ... tell me! I'd love to learn that he is wonderful and we were all wrong.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:39 AM

Do you work for him, because you sound like your are his pr person. In your first post, you were saying Steve did this and said that. Now you saying 'it wasn't even Steve.' Interesting.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:40 AM

Just as a baby that has inadequate care as a newborn can and usually does have health (and other) issues that carry on well into their lives (sometimes their whole lives), such is what I believe Silverwolf was referring to. I am sure they will answer for themselves, but that is what I got from it.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom
early onset HLP, severe malnutrition, severe dehydration, a parasite ... This little one was pulled from his mother at 3 weeks OOP,


I edited Val's post- to only contain the things that I can say are directly attributed to Steve Larkin.

This tiny glider was NOT bought at the PA expo - but rather bought directly from Steve Larkin. Yes - this IS Steve Larkin's joey.

Again - I obviously have only one side of the story. Granted - it came with pictures, and documentation about what horrible care this glider got from Steve.

But - I'm open to the other side of the story.
Posted By: Mel2mdl

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: ABRB
Do you blame the doctor who delivered your children for the illnesses that they get all through life? AMAZING


If the doctor who delivered your child, pulled them at a premature age for no other reason than money or convenience, gave you bad advice about how to care for the baby and that baby had health issues - that doctor would be responsible!

(My sister's friend was induced - the doctor had the wrong due date and the baby was only 26 or 28 weeks gestation. Guess what? 22 years later that doctor is still paying for health care issues. )

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:47 AM

Um.. i;m not a breeder here, and i dont indorse him AT ALL.. i think ANYONE who mass produces animals is NOT doing the right thing. It makes me NO MONEY AT ALL to slam him.. but you know what, this person, AMONG OTHERS are just NOT GOOD PEOPLE when it comes to the animal world. They are putting REAL LIVES in danger, lying to people, and trying to make a quick buck.

So what is his excuse for selling gliders with an intestinal parasite?? THAT was a well documented case.. So what is the answer for that>?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 12:48 AM

TracieB

I am TRUELY sorry that you had such a bad start. I was not trying to pick on you - I have never seen or heard of any problems with Steve and I have visited his booth every time he has come to town, staying hours at a time. The babies are seemingly healthy and dispite what others say - I have never seen a babby that looked younger than 7 weeks OOP.
I wish you the best - and again - SORRY for your bad experience.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 01:07 AM

Well, if you look at the pictures I posted, then you HAVE seen a baby that STEVE himself sold WAY TOO YOUNG. This little one may not even survive. He was sold to a teenager, who was told that he was 10-11 weeks OOP. Steve was very happy to also sell her a cage that is too small and bad advice on diet. This baby CAME with parasites, malnutrition and dehydration, all of which are very well documented from the 9 times that this little one has been to the vet in the 5 weeks since he was bought from Steve.

I am very glad that you, ABRB have had good experiences with him. I am reminded every other hour when I have to supplement feed this little one and the twice a day I have to administer medications and sub-q fluids that Steve and others like him are NOT at all interested in what is best for these little ones.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 01:14 AM

truly heartbreaking pics.... def will keep u guys in my prayers gangel
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 02:19 AM

Answers to several posts

I am not Steve - not his PR man - don't work for him
I guess that I am just quilty of believing in the breeder that has treated me well and I have seen no problem with. I am going strickly by experience - not rumor or gossip. My story is short and simple. I bought two gliders - they grew up happy and have had healthy joeys. Steve has alwys been there when I needed advice. So now I should HATE him?
Next - How many babies is a breeder supposed to have? If you make your living, selling sugar gliders - doesn't that mean that you will be breeding a good amount of them?
Next - My understanding is that Steve was one of the very first to start breeding and selling them. With this being a regulated and inspected business, If Steve is such a horrible breeder - Why has he not been shut down? They have had many, many years to do so.
Next - As for selling sick babies - I guess he is the only one in the breeding business to have a sick baby get sold. Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if we could all tell when something or someone is going to get sick? Who's to say he did this knowingly? My guess would be that, the teenager that bought the SG that "Jackie Chans Mom" has, did not buy that SG, looking like that. Of course that's possible too.
Yes, a responsible breeder would pull and treat his sick babies - and who's to say that he didn't try? How do you tell if you got them all or that a seemingly healthy group this week is going to get sick a week from now?
Lastly - I don't see where I contradicted myself. In my first post, it was only about Steve and the sale of the SG's to TracieB and in the following ones - the only thing that I said "wasn't Steve", was the Seller in PA.
Posted By: glidergrl1513

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 02:45 AM

No one is saying you should hate him. If you have had a good experience - then good for you. I'm glad your babies are happy and healthy. That is what we all want for all sugar gliders, regardless of where they came from. I do not condone the actions of any mill breeder, I don't care who they are; mass producing any animal and selling to whoever has the money is wrong.

Yes, but when they are mass produced so severely that they do not get individual attention and out of cage time, then how is that responsible? I would bet that his breeders do not get the attention they deserve and that the cages are not 2'x2'x3' or have toys. IMO (take it for what you will) animals should not be bred to "make a living". Not when the animals are suffering for it - or even lacking for it. If a person feels they must breed, it should be for the love of the animal, to bring up healthy and happy babies, to spoil their animals rotten, and to share the joy of owning them as pets with people who are truly committed to giving them the best lives they can have.

He has not been shut down because, according to the USDA, his conditions are acceptable. But they do not know how proper important care is. Anyone with 1'x1'x1' cages, some food, and some water could get licensed if they know the right people (and it DOES happen that way in many cases with mill breeders).

No, he's not the only one to ever sell a sick baby. Did anyone ever say that he was? Even the most responsible breeder could have a joey fall ill. It can and does happen. The difference is that these breeders do all they can to help fix the problem and be there for support. And once they know about the issue, they go back to the source of the problem (whether it be a genetic problem, environmental, or just an accident) and fix THAT as well. I'm sure Steve does not know which joeys come from which parents after they are sold, so how would he know where the problem was coming from (assuming that he cared enough to want to do anything about it)?

I don't think the teenager bought the glider looking like that either. That poor baby is obviously very ill and it's obvious that Val is working very hard to get him better. Sugar gliders go downhill fast, but there probably were some indications that he was ill when he was for sale. However, it may not have been something that a new owner (probably never having seen a sugar glider before) would have known meant he was sick.

Again, there is no telling when a glider will get sick sometimes. But when there are that many problems, it's not something that happened "just because". There were reasons behind it - no responsible breeder would sell a glider to a brand new owner that has that many of those kinds of problems.. and I doubt they would have those kinds of problems anyway if the gliders are being cared for as they should be.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 02:53 AM

So you got lucky and ended up with a couple of healthy gliders....good for you. So, for that, we should all love him now? Ever feel like yer spittin' in the wind?

Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: ABRB
If Steve is such a horrible breeder - Why has he not been shut down?


Just as other breeders who are known for horrible conditions, they have ways of avoiding the system and only show the USDA inspectors the "good" side of the business. There is no such thing as a surprise visit- so they always know when their coming & I'm sure clean house.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 03:47 AM

Yes - It does feel like I am Spitting into the wind.

How is it that - after many years of Steve, selling sugar gliders - I am the only "LUCKY ONE". Why could it not be that, of the hundreds of gliders that Steve has sold, over the YEARS - the few of you that have had problem.... were just the "unlucky ones"? It sure is easier to join the crowd or bandwagon and SLAM someone, than give them the benefit of the doubt. That's because of safety in numbers, I guess. I find it hard to believe that hundreds and hundreds of people, from the East coast to the West coast - have all gotten a raw deal from Steve... except me .. (of course) and he is STILL in business and there haven't been mass protests in his name. Of the many times I have hung out at his booth - I have never seen or heard anyone complain. You don't have to LOVE the guy - but if you haven't personally seen or heard any of this. How can you condemn him? I'm not disputing the sick sugar gliders.... but let's face it... sometimes these things happen. If I were to find out that Steve did these thing purposely - I would also be against him. but like I said - I have not personally experienced it and find it hard to believe that there are hundreds and hundreds of unhappy customers out there and no one comes back to the show to complain. He has a booth at all the same shows every year - so he wouldn't be hard to find.

Done spitting into the wind !!!

May you sugar gliders stay healthy

ABRB
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 04:07 AM

As I said before: Please ... Please PLease!!! Change my mind!

You aren't really offering anything besides contradictions and irrational leaps of logic.

I'd LOVE to be shown how wrong I am. I'd LOVE for this to be a case of "mistaken impression."

Show me he isn't a mill breeder? Tell me his breeding pairs are in large cages with toys and wheels? Tell me he personally interviews every single person who buys from him?

Heck - tell me he responded to that sick glider's owner when she called him! Tell me he offered her money back... or to pay for vet fees ... or said he was sorry!

Tell me SOMETHING good! Besides "My gliders are healthy" I mean ...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 04:48 AM

I agree with Val.. show us some proof to change our minds. You are giving us hearsay. these other people (multiple people btw) have documents from veterinarians that SHOW that those animals came from him sick.

If he is so proud of his breeding practices, why wouldnt he post pictures of his "breeding room" Why doesn't he come here and show us proof of vet checks on hundreds of gliders. Give us the name of his vet ANYTHING concrete. Dont even come here, just post is SOMEWHERE for the public to see.

HE is not the only one i disagree with about their breeding practices.. but i do disagree none the less. I think that ANYONE who uses animals as a main source of income then looses passion for it and it just comes about the money, like with ANYONE who needs to survive. ESPECIALLY a small business owner. I personally run a small business, i KNOW what it takes to keep afloat. I would NEVER apply that to my animals. It just NEVER turns out well for the animals when they are money makers. I'm sorry, there is nothing you can say to change my mind about that.. but PLEASE prove that he sells proper age joeys that are healthy and he has 100% healthy conditions for his breeders.

Do you know what he does with his retired females or males? Have you ever asked him that?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 04:50 AM

The ONLY differance between me and you - is that I have had personal contact with him and I can speak from my own experience. I have no more "PROOF" - I thought, that you were innocent until proven guilty. I see no proof of his mass wrong doing. Where are YOUR pictures of his facility and the breeder mill that you all talk about? A few sick gliders - does not make anyone a bad breeder. How is it irrational to think that very few complants - with hundreds and hundreds of past customers - people coming back to his booth the following year, to buy more gliders from him and him still having a successful business. That tells me that he is doing something RIGHT. You all want me to believe that Steve is corrupt - the USDA and all of its' inspectors are corrupt or maybe that this MASSIVE mill operation that Steve runs can be so very quickly cleaned up for inspections. You want me to believe that he keeps all of his breeders in really small cages and then PERHAPS, he moves them to another warehouse, with bigger cages that meet the inspection standards. Maybe he just "PAYS OFF" the inspectors.
Who's being irrational now?
And where have I contradicted myself?
I don't see your proof.
Posted By: glidergrl1513

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 04:59 AM

We are not being irrational. There are quite a few instances of "proof" that mill breeders will pay off USDA inspectors, or keep the bulk of their "stock" at a different location (there is even a mill breeder who has his warehouse in an illegal city - do you want to tell me that there is not something fishy going on there?). Personally, I don't have proof that Steve does these things, but I wouldn't put it past him.

The reason that we don't hear all of the terrible experiences from these mill breeders is that the impulse buying are supposedly told "all they need to know". If they are led to believe that they now know everything there is to know about glider care, why would most of them go looking for more? And if they don't go looking, how would we find them and hear their stories? But one thing you can do is talk to any of the rescuers in the areas where these mill breeders set up their booths. I'm sure you will find no shortage of sick, neglected joeys from uneducated impulse buyers.

Honestly, I have not heard many stories of people being happy with the gliders from mill breeders.. not many at all. The bad greatly outweighs the good in what I've heard.

You keep asking how he stays in business. How do businesses that use child labor in third world countries stay in business? We all know how bad it is, how wrong it is, how cruel it is, yet these people are still making money and selling their goods. Maybe people don't care enough or maybe there aren't enough regulations, but there are ways around morals if you want the money bad enough.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 05:01 AM

I have no idea who Steve is?? Never done business with him..

But I have to say one thing before I head off to bed..

If you are in such close contact with him, can you call or email him and ask him to come here and defend himself if the opinions and facts being written here are so wrong??

I would think if you are a happy customer interested in his reputation you would like for him to know about this and come here and discuss things things being said.

That should not be a problem-- I would think he if he is so caring he would be eager to clear up any questions and want this corrected so it would not hurt his business.
You say he is so helpful, well let him be helpful here.

I just want to add one thing-
can you ask him to bring references from some of his satisfied costumers ??
That to should be easy since most breeders keep that information handy for anyone interested in their gliders.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 05:01 AM

Oh well. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Because your responses are alienating and hostile, I'm not likely to be swayed by your "he is a nice guy because I said so" argument.

Perhaps you just don't understand that you came to a site where people feel passionately about the care and well-being of sugar gliders?

Perhaps you just like to argue.

Either way - I don't really care. You've done nothing to help me see your point of view. Only made me feel annoyed at your hostility. Too bad, because I really would have liked to hear your experiences.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW - 04/05/08 05:17 AM

This thread is being locked per original posters request.
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