GliderCENTRAL

Anxiety Disorders

Posted By: USMom

Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 03:33 AM

I have been posting about Dexter in the Pitbull Biters thread. However, since I've had him, and observed, I have come to the conclusion that his special need is not the fact that he bites. That is a symptom, not the issue. His issue is that he has an anxiety disorder. In other words, he is extremely easy to stress, and it really wouldn't take much to kill him, stress wise.
Background. Dexter came to me as part of a group that just did a stopover for a few days in February, on their way to a new home. He was so violent, biting through the cage bars, through my clothes and into my skin when we were trying to get them out for moving, that I decided to keep him and Gizmo here. I felt that: A-moving him would be too stressful, based on his behavior, and B-he was gonna eat me if I put my hand in his cage (LOL!)
I had to sneak their plates in and out of their cage for a couple of weeks, to keep from getting bitten. I contacted Bourbon and Mary for help. B finally talked me into trying the pouch protecter pouch for Dex. We worked really hard with him and within a few weeks, the biting stopped.
Now, the other things I have noticed with Dex.
He is incredibly protective of any place he can hide. He will guard it against anyone, including me.
Any changes to their cage will cause stress. If it is a small change, say moving something, the stress only lasts for a few hours. If it is a large change, adding something new, stress will last for a couple of days. Moving their cage, even from its normal place, clean and put it back, is a week.
I went to the SGGA this year, gone for 4 days, He didn't talk to me for a week.
Sunday, I nearly killed him. I made them an awesome new cage, larger and prettier than the cage they are in, big bonus--No Rust!!! WooHoo! So, I put all of their stuff from the old cage into the new one. Including the cage pan, and cage cover. Moved the gliders to the new cage. Mom stayed in there, cause he is prone to stress. I played with them in the cage. Dex was stressed, I could tell. I fed them some yogies, to associate good stuff with the new cage. After about an hour or so I left the room, turning off the light, so they could explore and rest in their own time. About 5 hours later, I went in to feed everyone. Dex was still up, and there was vomit all over the cage. Giz was fine, Dex was throwing up. Panicked, called B, we worked it out and moved the babies back to their old cage. The vomiting stopped within about 10 minutes of moving back.
Now, 3 days later, Dex is still stressed. I expect him back to normal tomorrow or the next day at the latest.
Next step is, what looks like a long, introduction to the new cage. Their cage has rust on it, and they can't stay in it.
Then I will work on trying to reduce their anxiety. Counseling, I guess.
Now, I know Dex isn't the only one like this, his case is just extreme. However, I think in many cases, the pitbull biting is also a symptom of an anxiety disorder, weather it is minor or extreme. All gliders stress to some extent. But we need to learn how to deal with it.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 04:30 AM

Wow Shawna...........That is very informative. I had no idea they could stress to that extreme. Thank you for sharing Dex's story...............so meds are prescribed for people with anxiety disorder............is there glider valium you could give for a cage change????? I know the vet prescribes it for dogs with anxiety disorder.

............................Cora
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 04:40 AM

Thank you for posting!

Yes, I wonder in a really extreme case like this if medication could help? I'm sure they may not have given Valium to a glider before so I guess it might be risky, but I'm sure they could extrapolate the proper dosage maybe?

Wishing you luck with that new cage hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 04:55 AM

Thank you for sharing Dex's story. We learn so much about these wonderfully amazing creatures every day through stories & experiences just like yours. I hope the vet's can figure out to help Dex, and by doing so help other gliders that may share his disorder
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 11:40 AM

Gliders have had valium, it can be mixed with pain meds in a very low dose for the SMs. My Riker had it when he was SMing and in his collar. I have some on hand for emergencies from brief use with a glider that for 2 years had a seizure every time she was handled or scared-like twice when she got a nail hung up in the tent-and no other time. It needs to be used VERY sparingly, and I'm not sure it's the best one for this (plus realize you'll stress the glider handling it to give the meds if they won't take it mixed in something).

There are other meds that are used to treat anxiety in small animals, such as haloperidol. That is something you would want to talk to your vet about.

My girl finally stopped having seizures being handled but not before we had to 2-3 times a day for her tooth issues. It nearly killed her first, though, even with a low dose of the valium to try and head off the seizures she had a couple bad enough we almost lost her before she decided to submit to a limited amount of handling and that we weren't going to hurt her-it took 2 years to get to that point though (past the 6 months of incessant crabbing anytime anything moved, and the lunging/biting when you got too close, etc.) Gliders who have been seriously mistreated really can have serious trust and anxiety issues. We only used the valium for about 4 days (it's not a long term med for a glider) and have not needed to in months, nor had but one mild seizure in that time. Things may have gone quicker if I'd used a med like haloperidol, but she was happy with limited handling (nails and occasional once overs)-still is for that matter...she will tolerate you for a short time, and that's it...and I can live with that. She gets tent time (without me in the tent-but I watch through the windows) with her cagemate, transferred to and from the cage in her pouch. She will even let me pet her on the head briefly (has a fit if you touch her tail tho), and I don't see the need for meds just so I can force a glider to be cuddly that really doesn't like people in her case-I'll take what she wants to give. I'm just happy I can handle her without killing her.

In this case tho-where just moving the cage can cause life threatening symptoms-for days, meds may be needed (and a way to administer as stress free as possible).
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 12:29 PM

He is very easy for me to handle, now that he knows me and loves me. I can give him meds, no problem. I hadn't considered meds for him, and I don't think he would do well at all to go to the vet to get them. He would have to go into a much smaller cage to get into the car, and then drive for up to 2 hours one way, depending on traffic, and be in the vets office, heck I get the jitters just thinking about doing that to him. I can get the vet out here, but it has to be scheduled, and will cost a small fortune.
The plan to get them into the new cage is now kind of lengthy. Bring the cage back into the glider room. Let it sit for a few days. Move their cage right up against it. Let it sit for a couple of days. Let them play in it for a few minutes at a time, until I start to see his stress level drop. Then a bit longer. Then actually move them. Kind of like intro's between gliders, swap stuff around, get the smell on there, let them meet...
Thanks for the encouragement. It starts to feel really lonely when you try and explain this to people with "normal" gliders, and no rescues. I'm not crazy, and neither is he, he is just sensitive. My 90's man!
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 02:58 PM

I had an idea that might help too, I dunno, just a thought.

Use blankets that were in his pouch and rub them up and down the cage so it kinda "wipes" his smell everywhere.

How often are you able to clean his cage, if it takes a wk for him to recover?

Is he neutered?

Just wondering..:) sounds like you have done a fabulous job with him!!

Its amazing to see people, like you, work with such "difficult" gliders.
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 03:29 PM

I can wipe down bits of his cage at a time, just do it every day. He's okay with that, I think because its a change he can't "see", I don't know. He is awake when I do it, he does better if he can watch me. He has zero problem with me cleaning the cage pan.
He is neutered.
I can't imagine that he has always been this way, maybe the final move to my house was the last straw? Who knows.

I do know this, I love Dex and Gizzy to pieces!
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 03:49 PM

wow that is pretty interesting! Thanks for sharing that info w/ me.

I can tell how much you love him!! Its amazing how they steal your heart!
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 04:26 PM

Shawna,
Dexter is very fortunate to have you as his slave heart Thanks for sharing your experience here so that others can learn from it. I think your theory about biters has a lot of validity to it.
hug2 hug2 hug2 coming your way. You've got a great action plan in place for getting him used to his new cage. As with everything with gliders, patience is the key thumb
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 09:53 PM

Shawna, Your Dex's earth angel! God Bless his little heart! You just wonder what happened to this poor little fella to have turned out this way. It's totally awesome how your being guided to work thur this with him.
I will keep him in my thoughts and prayers. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 10:20 PM

hmm i wonder if the herbal way would work.. You know how they make the Kitty Calm stuff which has camomille and zizyphus.

There all are different types of herbal animal calming meds that might be safer and you can mix it in with a treat - the liquid one that i have for my cats would be EASY to get them to takebecause its really sweet and syrupy.

I obviously am no vet, and wouldn't reccommed ANY of those things that are meant for dogs or cats without clearing the ingredients and dosage by a vet.. but it COULD be an option that is worth looking into
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/06/07 10:49 PM

I really appreciate all of the thoughts, prayers and well wishes! I am so happy to part of this community of support.
I know there are other gliders out there like this, it just hasn't been recognized, because the symptoms are so overwhelming that they look like the entire problem. Buffy, for example, her symptoms looked a lot like Dex, biting.
I have another glider that is in this category, Tinkerbelle. I am home number 6 (final) for her. When I first got her she would run in circles on the top of her cage. For hours. She is a sweetheart, just a dollbaby of a glider, bra-baby, whisper in my ear. And she was thrilled to be the third in a trio, with Melee and Loki. Oh, she would run and play and love on everyone. One day I got them up during the day for playtime, and she was playing statue glider while she woke up. I took the still moment to look her over, her tummy was meeting in the middle! She was starving to death! She was always in motion, and I didn't think of not seeing her eat. For a month, I hand fed her (and Melee and Loki) 4 or 5 times a day. She finally after about 3 weeks started to eat on her own. But the stress of moving to a new home with new friends, even though she was, and is, happy, was very hard on her.
Things I learned from her: just cause the eye's look good, and the nose is the right color, and their activity is fine, you still need to have a "still" assessment! Yipe!
I don't know if we will go the medication route. Right now I'd prefer not to, if I can avoid it. The trip to the vet with him scares the bleep out of me, because of the stress that would bring. I am going to start documenting everything I do with him in hopes of helping other gliders, and avoiding having to do meds, unless we have to. I really think I need to be A LOT more observant, because I know that there are things I miss that could help.
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/07/07 06:05 AM

I noticed that you said you fed them yogies when you transferred cages. It could be absolutely unrelated, but thought I'd throw this out there anyway. I have one (out of 5) that cannot stand yogies. He loves them, don't get me wrong, but every single time he's had them, it has sent him into fits, basically. He races around the cage uncontrollably, his breathing becomes really quick and hours later he will sometimes nearly pass out from exhaustion/let down. There is something about them (any kind of yogurt treat) that he cannot process properly. He has only had them 5 times (and 3 of them were accidents because he stole them from his cage mates, so now his cage mates don't get them either). But every single time it has been absolutely terrifying and I thought I was going to loose him 3 of the 5 times and we went to the vet and treated for seizures because we weren't sure. I never saw him vomit, but know that seizures can cause vomiting sometimes and thought maybe it was worth mentioning. (Not that I, in any way, disbelieve or am trying to belittle the stress thing - stress can do some really scary things to the body, I just thought this was worth mentioning here). hug2
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/07/07 12:34 PM

I have heard of other gliders doing that with the yogies, but he's never reacted to them before. Of course, there is always the first time. They haven't had any since, and it's real likely that it will be a LONG time before they get them again.
I did some unusual out of cage time with them yesterday. We went to the couch and sat and had yogurt. Then I made them some fresh Gatorade, and they crawled all over me while we did that. I was really nervous, because they've never been un-enclosed. But they did really well. We only stayed out about 15 minutes. Of course, now every time I put my hand in there Dex wants to go for a ride. It is a small step foward. I think I am going to do this every day. Gives them a different view, with the protection of mommy right there.
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/11/07 10:02 PM

Okay, the stress didn't seem to get any better last week. So, I got to looking, I didn't put their wheel back when I put them back. Cheez and crackers, am I dumb or what? This whole post about stress and make sure things don't change, and leave their wheel out. At least they still love me. And now they are normal. Not sleeping all the time.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/11/07 10:44 PM

Hey Shawna, I was just thinking of you and wondering if there has been any progress! Well, I'm sure they have forgiven you for forgetting the wheel roflmao I admire your patience and determination....finding a happy medium dose take time, but from what it sounds like to me, every step that you take it looks like a mile's worth of progress. Wishing you all the best and happiness with your silly little fella..... hug2
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/12/07 09:56 PM

Your not done yet, you still must get them safely into their new cage
Posted By: BCChins

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/12/07 11:21 PM

Wow I am proud of you for all you are doing. You are doing a fantastic job with them. Never thought about this point of veiw before, you are opening up a new chapter in glider learning. Keep us updated and glad they have you as their Mommy now!

Posted By: SweetGliders

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 09/13/07 12:10 AM

Hi Shawna,
You are doing great and Dex loves you for that.

I have an idea it might not work because I don't know about the cages you have. But it's worth a try. Is there a way you can set the old cage and the new cage side by side cut a hole in the side of the old cage and place it up close to the door and temporarly wire the cages together. (or even cut a whole in the side of the new cage, that can be fixed once the babies move into their new cage) this way the babies can venture over to the new cage when they wanted to and once they adjusted to the new cage then remove the old cage all together. This will be of a stress on your little guy. JMO...

Anita heart
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/08/07 04:13 AM

I put the new cage back in the glider room, and just left it in there for a week. Then I moved Dex and Gizzy's cage in front of it for a week. Gave them some time to get to know it. And now...Dex and Gizzy are in their new cage full time. They are showing some signs of stress. Running around, spending lots of time in the wheel, neediness, not eating. I have been checking on them about every hour or so, and so far no vomiting. YAY! party So, I will see how it goes. I think this time will be successful.
Posted By: glidergrl1513

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/08/07 06:37 PM

clap That's great news!
Posted By: Kitkatt1216

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/08/07 07:36 PM

Glad to here they are making progress!!
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/08/07 11:29 PM

They did really well last night! No vomiting, and they are sleeping happily now smile They ate all of their food, too. Such good babies!
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/09/07 02:06 AM

Hey girl-

somehow I missed this thread- since you started it over my move. I've told you about my Haley. I've always called her my special needs baby even though she's not handicap. She also suffers from an anxiety disorder- I believe hers was triggered during her pregnancy and rejection of their twins.

It takes great detail and attention to keep these special babies happy & healthy- it's the littlest things in this world that sets them off. One thing I've noticed that helps ease Haley's attacks- is a magnet therapy. Lsardou sent them to me for Haley & I've noticed she can go longer without an attack when on the magnets.

Reminds me- Linda I need to talk to you about a replacement mlove

Maybe something to look into for Dex
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/10/07 05:12 AM

Okay, these two little weirdo's are acting like they have been in this cage their entire lives. *stomps feet
Last time they threw up forever, didn't eat for a week, then wouldn't come out if I was in the room for 2 weeks, and just generally acted like victims of some kind of deranged monster. Now, life is all sunshine and butterflies! I don't get them, I really don't, LOL However, they did move from a tin shack out in the slums, to a mansion uptown, so I should change their names to Jed and Granny, maybe?
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/10/07 01:46 PM

Yay! Congratulations! Maybe they were just testing you? hehehe laugh
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/12/07 11:54 AM

I'm so glad the move went well for them! That is really great news jump Yep, sounds like Jed & Granny to me roflmao
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/16/07 06:18 PM

Here is a breakdown of Dexter and Gizmo's progress here at Casa Dulce. Subie, maybe some of this will help you, see where you are with yours. Dex and Gizzy came on February 11th, and the first post is the first post, and really my first real action with them.
3/17/07 I ask because I have gotten in a glider that seems like way beyond pit bull biter. She will reach through the bars of the cage, like when I'm giving treats, to grab you and bite. It doesn't matter what you are doing, she wants to eat you. She HATES people. I have reduced cage numbers, so I can work with her, so any suggestions would be good!
3/19/07 Adding two pics of the biter. I was wrong about who it was. It is Dexter, not Gizmo. The first pic is hysterical! I keep thinking of someone in prison, I'm gonna get you when I get out of here! The second is kind of scary. He was biting the bars all over the cage. Any place I had touched. I touched it a few times to check. It wasn't random, he wants to eat me.
3/22/07 Okay, 2 nights in a row, Dex hasn't attacked his cage. He pretty much ignores me now. Which right now is good, he is getting used to me. He won't eat treats, unless it is something I put on his plate before I put it in the cage. Of course I haven't offerred my fingers lately! LOL
3/30/07 Okay, update. We are at 24 hours with the pouch in the cage. Dex has no problem with it, but Gizzy seems really scared, she hides all the time. Well, as much as she can, there aren't any hiding places in the cage.
He seems much calmer tonight. I wiped down his cage bars while he was awake, and he watched, but didn't try and hunt me down to eat me I think this will work really well for him, based on the progress we have been having.
But, I feel soooooo guilty about her. She acts scared all the time! She isn't afraid of me at all, I can touch her and move things around and such, but, she kind of acts like a beaten wife. I've never seen him do anything to her, and I don't want to separate them. But then I do want to. I worry about her being so much smaller, as well as her behavior. Would it be easier all the way around to separate them, or would this cause a huge setback?
4/16/07 Good news! I was gathering dishes earlier, and Dex was up eating something in the corner, and didn't move when I came in the room. Well, I thought it was Gizzy, and said "Hi, honey, having a snack? Want some more?" And pulled the plate out. She/He didn't move, no reaction at all. So I got the treats out and offered, and he came over and it was Dexter!!!! OMG, he didn't want the treat, but he didn't want to eat me, either Yay!
04/23/07 He licked me! He licked me! I put my (shaking) finger up to the cage bars, and he came over and stuck his nose through, and put his teeth on me, I didn't flinch (much) then he licked me! So we did this for like 5 minutes, I had to keep coming back to do it again. He'd run over to me sniff me, put his mouth on me then wander off. He did grab my shirt and bite it, then pulled it into the cage and (try to) mark it. He's neutered. B was on the phone with me and said that I should put the shirt on the cage for him. Gotta wait til I can trim nails, though. I am just so darned excited! I could pop, he likes me! Of course, I am the slave that brings him nuts (I found his snack weakness). Gonna have to find a replacement, can't do that for very long.
05/05/07 Really, really good news! Woot, woot! First, last night, I got to pet Dexter in his cage. He didn't even care, or try to bite, or anything. Okay, thats exciting right? Right? Well, this morning (I've only been up for about an hour) I tried to give him a treat, and he didn't want it, and he had that look, Shelley you know what I mean, like I wanna bite you. So, I gave him my hand so he could see it was me. He tried to bite, but I told him psst, pretty quiet and he let go. It was more of a putting his teeth on me thing. Anyway, tried to give him another treat, and he was too, I guess up is the word. All over the place. I put the whole treat bowl in his cage and said, fine you pick. He didn't want a treat, he wiggled his way out of the cage by my arm, marked my hand. Then climbed up my arm and ran to my back. All I could think is oh, God, my ears! LOL, scooped him back and he went back in the cage, and after some maneuvering got him off of me and the door closed. HE WANTS TO PLAY!!!!! I think he likes me. I'm so happy I could cry.
06/24/07 Yesterday was a red letter day! We did outside of cage time in the bathroom, and it went wonderful! They crawled all over me, can any one say spikes! Yipe! But they played and ran and just generally had a good time. Dex got that look in his eyes a few times when climbing my shirt, because parts of it were draped over other parts, and looked like a hiding place, so I had to keep my shirt pulled tight. Gizzy, on the other hand, is a biter, too. Her bitey instigator is worms. I had to hide my right hand, because she could smell them and would try and eat my fingers 0.0 But, my left hand she was fine with. No biting or anything. It was grand!
07/03/07 Well, Cheez Whiz, you'd think he was a pet or something! He waits on the side of the cage for me when I'm in the glider room, you know, like those other ones do. And tonight, when I fed them, I had to let him mark me and groom me. And he had to pay special attention to the cut on the cuticle of my thumb. And then he had to get in the palm of my hand, and rub the top of his head all over me, all cute like. Sheesh, I guess we'll keep him
09/02/07 Poor Dex! I made him and Giz a new cage. It stressed Dex out so much he's been throwing up for I don't know how long. I have been on the phone with B, but am charging my phone right now. Giz is fine, except for hovering over Dex. He will only drink water. I've moved them back to their old cage for now. I will post tomorrow or later tonight as to how he is doing. I'm a little scared though, cause I've never heard of a glider throwing up that didn't die within a short period of time.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/17/07 12:42 AM

To be honest, I don't know WHERE I am with him. He's... not like any glider I've had.

Niko came to me on 9/4/07. He didn't come from a good situation (bad diet, rusty cage, etc.) and the only things they ever put in his cage were a wheel, pouch, water bottle and food bowl. He's been alone for 6 years until now. They had him since he was barely 8 weeks OOP. He had a few medical problems but that turned out to be the least of my worries.

He overgrooms his head badly, runs in circles on the top of his cage for hours, and is the NEEDIEST glider I've ever seen. He wants me, all the time, 24/7. We just recently broke him of his habit of running headfirst into the cage bars at the sight of change. We have him in a reptarium now so that if he does start again, he won't hurt himself. I have to be very careful about his cage. He does fairly okay when we clean it but god forbid I move, add, or subtract anything. I have a diagram of his cage taped above it so I don't forget.

He's very active but not in a good way. He always looks and moves as if he's in a panic. He took to me right away; he loves to hang out on my shoulder or in the suggie shirt pouch. That's the only time he calms down a bit is when he's on me but only if he comes out of the cage on his own; if I take him out he panics. Whenever he's in the cage he doesn't play or run in his wheel. He's rarely out in the cage except to eat and run circles. He mostly just sits in his pouch.

He has a cagemate in the works. They don't live together yet because even though the two gliders are all cuddly and such, Niko's stress level seems to go way up when they're in a cage together.

I've been constantly frusterated with him, not because of him per se but because I haven't been able to find the cause of his issues. Then I saw this thread and thought of him.

So here we are. What do ya'll think?
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/17/07 01:30 AM

Where in the house is his cage? How busy is the room? Do you know what kind of environment he was in? Like where he was in their house and if there was anyone that picked on him?
I think he needs to be in a busy place. Not THE busiest place, but he shouldn't be in the quietest place either. He has to get used to inconsistancies in his environment. He sees you as his safe place, and anything else as a threat. You need him to get used to changes and to understand that every little change doesn't mean the end of his security. The only way to do that is to let him experience it.
Dex and Gizzy are learning this (as am I) very slowly. It takes a long time. If you watch the dates above, it took months, and then we had a huge setback.
I think start with one thing in his cage. Move it to a different place everyday. Sometimes while he's awake, sometimes while he is asleep. See how he reacts to it the first time, really watch him. And post it. Then write about his reaction to it in a week. You will see some progress.
Does anyone else have any thoughts to mention here?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/17/07 01:42 AM

His cage used to be in a basement; that's as much as I know. They had cats but no idea where the cats were kept.

He's currently in the suggie room which is pretty darn busy. And his cage does get moved a lot, actually, because it's right in front of another cage (we're a little cramped at the moment) so I have to move it to get to the other cage. Also when he's having a bad night I'll move him into my bedroom. He does some circles while I move him but otherwise no obvious change in behavior. It's when things move INSIDE his cage that I notice a differance.
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/17/07 02:19 AM

Yeah, then move 1 item in his cage every day. Make it the same item for a while. Like a toy or hammock, or something. It will be upsetting, but he has to get used to it. You can do it, it will be hard, but think how satisfying it will be when you can put new toys in for him!
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/17/07 09:09 PM

Subie, how did things go last night?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/18/07 01:25 AM

Er, not that great. I migrated his tunnel, which was probably my first mistake. His tunnel is his safety place inside the cage. He started banging around the rept again... glad it's made of screen, but he hit a pole pretty hard and that was my last straw. Moved the tunnel back, took him out and spent the rest of the night getting him settled down.

Now we're back to square one...
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/18/07 02:26 AM

One day at a time. One day at a time. You sound a lot like me, your sympathy for him overwhelms you. But you need to do this, maybe with something else, not his safety net. I know how hard this is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/18/07 03:14 AM

My problem is that I simply will not allow him to hurt himself. He can spin in all the circles he wants, run around like a maniac, but the minute physical harm is possible I intervene.

He's back to his running into the sides of the rept again. It's so frusterating after we worked so hard to get him to stop doing that.
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/25/07 04:47 AM

I've already posted in the Rainbow Bridge section, but Dexter has crossed over. He was very clingy to me before, and would even go down into my bra. I did get bit when I sub Q-ed him, but I expected to. I will have to continue to work with his cagemate, Gizmo, she seems kind of lost tonight.
I hope that his story helps others, and that we can honor him and not give up on our babies. Sometimes it seems so hard, and that nothing we do makes it better. But he and I went a long way in our journey together. I just wish, so much, that it could have been longer. He was so much fun to play with, and such a lovey boy.
Dexter, honey, I love you and miss you. But, you are such a little hero, to quote Val. You are my inspiration, and I will keep helping others and other gliders who are scared. We will make them better.
Please, if you have a glider that has this issue, or think it does, post! Post what helps, and what doesn't. So many times, new owners give up their babies, because of this kind of issue, and they could be having a wonderful life together. Please help by telling your story.
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/25/07 04:51 AM

Oh, Shawna, I am so sorry for your loss. hug2 hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/27/07 01:42 AM

Thought I'd take a minute to update on Niko --

He's living with his cagemate, Mat, fulltime now. They're doing great together. Niko follows Mat around like a little puppy and tries to ride on his back. LOL... Mat is sooo tolerant of Niko. It's so cute to watch Niko follow Mat around and do everything that he does.

As for his stress level, it goes up and down randomly. Most of the time he has Mat to distract him from things that normally sent him into a panic. I'll still catch him doing circles and he still won't touch a wheel. But there is definite improvement and for that I'm grateful.

Shawna, It was great being able to talk to you and I'm so sorry about Dexter. My thoughts are with you.

I'll keep ya'll updated.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/27/07 01:52 AM

I take all that back. I just went to feed the babies and found Niko bouncing off the walls with a huge overgroomed spot on his head.

I'm kinda stressing here.
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/27/07 04:31 AM

Oh, Cry! Has he still been getting 1 on 1 time with you? Of course he has, you can't stand it, if not! Maybe more time? I hope he settles in with his buddy. I wouldn't seperate them (don't know if that was in your head or not, but...) But watch them, like you always do. I think with time they'll settle in with each other, just with Niko's personality, it will take a while. ((((HUG)))) It will get better, it will.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/27/07 05:07 AM

Yeah, he's been getting one on one time when he wants it. Basically I give him the option of staying with Mat or coming with me to play. He nearly always chooses Mat but whenever he wants me I play with him until he hops back to their cage.

I wouldn't seperate them unless fur starts flying! LOL. Having a cagemate has been so good for him. I'm really confused by this new turn of events... I think we're going to hit the vet in the morning. The spot he's grooming on his head is quite red and raw looking. If it gets any worse we'll be going tonight.

Right now he's calmer. I moved their cage into my room for the night. *Sigh...* I know it'll get better. I just get frusterated with the one step foreward two steps back thing.

Anyway... thanks for letting me whine Shawna. LOL. It really does help knowing that someone knows what you're going through.
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/27/07 02:34 PM

That ain't whinin'! LOL. How did they do after you moved them?
I got your text at about 9. I'm up, you can call anytime.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/28/07 03:23 AM

Okie dokie, quick recap for those who may be reading --

Niko decided to go nuts on me last night. He was crabbing, lunging, and refusing to let Mat out of their pouch. When I seperated them so that Mat could eat Niko bit and scratched my hands all to heck.

I called Shawna; discussed Niko realizing he's a glider and can rule the cage.

Got home, loved on my suddenly cuddly baby who was very happy to see me and very much missing his cagemate... I allowed them to sleep together under my supervision. They're both up and playing, eating, etc. normally. I have their cage right next to my bed along with a spare cage and a large piece of fleece (my hands are shredded enough. LOL.) just in case Niko decides to get crazy again. For now, all is well.

*Knock on wood!!!*

Shawna, you're awesome. Still. LOL. It's sooooo much easier to deal with things knowing you have a back up plan... call someone else! LOL! grin
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/28/07 03:55 AM

I am here 24/7! I am glad he is doing better, and is with a momma that pays attention to the details. You are doing great laugh
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 10/31/07 09:49 PM

OMG! Niko ran in a wheel! dance jump

He hasn't touched one since I got him. But today I got my package for the LGG gift exchange and it had a brand new wodent wheel JR in it. Niko was up so I was sitting there talking to him, telling him he should try it out because it was a special gift from Haley... and he sniffed it, climbed in, sat there a minute then started running! I was so excited! LOL I know it's silly and just a little thing but I dunno... he's always been my "odd" glider and seeing him in a wheel makes him that much more "normal".

Needless to say, that wheel is his now. LOL.

On top of this his hair is growing back, he and his cagemate are getting along awesome, and he's gone a full four and a half days without bouncing off his cage. And he didn't even NOTICE when I moved a toy a few inches... noticed when I moved the pouch though, LOL, that went back. But we're getting somewhere!!!
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/01/07 02:22 PM

party Woohoo! I'm glad things are going so well for your boys! hug2
Posted By: GliderLove

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/01/07 03:03 PM

I'm glad things are getting better!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/06/07 02:05 PM

Oh how I love my Nicky. Really, I do. But that boy is nuts! LOL!

The cage he and his mate are in is pretty small. So we've been working on switching cages (insert horror film music here). He's been doing well with me moving toys, etc. around. Well, I had him on my shoulder while I was putting some things in the new cage and... he hopped in. I held my breath, waiting for the world to stop turning or something. He made a little chirpy noise and his mate came to see what was going on. Next thing I know I've got two gliders happily exploring the new cage. No running in circles, no panicky running into things, no nothing. I know it's silly but I nearly cried. I think it's just knowing how he used to be and seeing his improvement so quickly... I expected weeks at least before we could switch cages.

Okay, I'll stop rambling now. smile
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/06/07 03:04 PM

So good to hear, Subie!!! laugh Yea!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/19/07 09:30 PM

Time for a Niko update!!! grin

He's doing better and better each day. He's still attached to that Jr. Wodent... that he barely fits in. LOL. But he won't run in anything else! He's dividing his time between me and Mat now. I guess the novelty of having a cagemate wore off a bit. smile

Now that the cage switching went over smoothly... we have to focus on our next obstacle - neutering. crazy Any advice for getting an already stressed out critter through a stress inducing surgery???
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/20/07 01:44 AM

No advice from me - Just a "good luck!" And "hooray!" for Niko getting along better! hug2
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/20/07 05:00 AM

I, thank God, never had to deal with that. I would say that with how he is, have them put the e-collar on before he wakes up. Someone else with more experience may disagree, but, that is my thought on that. You have my number if you need help.
Posted By: thefotokat

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/20/07 01:03 PM

I've not dealt w/a glider w/Niko's level of anxiety and I'm very torn here. I've had 2 gliders sm after neuter and a 3rd sm resulting in a tail amp. At the times the sm's happened, these gliders hadn't been w/me long. 2 were rescues that had come in less than a week prior. However, none of them were showing the type of anxiety you're describing. They were all upset being in the collar, but the collars were absolute necessities. Hopefully Niko won't sm after the neuter. You'll need to discuss the procedure w/your vet prior and make sure he's aware of Niko's anxiety issues. If he leaves the pom in place and doesn't use any glue or stiches, Niko may not realize what happened. I don't like to use the pain med w/valium mixed in, but it may be something to talk to your vet about. I don't know if you've pm'd Xfilefan w/this question so I'm going to ask her to come read here. She'd be a good one to hear from on this.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/21/07 07:56 AM

I used the Torbuterol w/valium suspension with my SM, Riker with very good results-it's a very low dose when in the mix. The valium is anti anxiety. I also used it on my girl for a short time that would seizure every time you touched her with good results when we had to have her teeth worked on and suddenly do a lot of handling and she kept going into bad seizures...it was that or let the infection kill her-she HAD to be handled. I think that would be a very good option for a glider with issues like yours. Added to the pain med, what it does is lessen how much they care about what is going on. I wouldn't recommend it for long term, but post op in this case most definitely, no doubt at all should a collar be necessary. I don't recommend this one lightly-meds should be used when needed, and not when not. Although there shouldn't be any side effects other than normal ones (it makes them a bit sleepy, can kill appetite but so can the pain meds) if used short term, it is a useful tool when anxiety and stress is an issue. I'm not sure what long term effects could be, though my vet alluded to the fact there were possibly some to be concerned with long term, we didn't go into details as it wasn't a long term thing, and in fact with Lyah even shorter than we'd anticipated before she decided she'd allow handling long enough for meds and examining her mouth without stressing herself into a life threatening seizure. I think we used it 4 or 5 days with her, not mixed with a pain med and at a bit higher dose than Riker had. Riker was on his about a month with no observable issues from it, but it did help with his stressing. I've also used the combo for a few days on a couple other rescues going through medical issues with good results.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/22/07 02:59 AM

Thanks Jen! I will most certainly keep that in mind.

I'm thinking about not getting him neutered after all. Since I take in rescues it's been, "every male through this door gets neutered!", but I think that if it risks his health, it's not worth it. His cagemate on the other hand won't be so lucky... LOL!
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 11/25/07 07:38 AM

Subie, how is Niko doing?
If they continue to get along, then you should be fine leaving Niko intact. Give him a kiss for me!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 01/10/08 12:50 AM

Well, it's been a while since I've posted! It's been hectic around here lately~~~

Niko is still doing awesome. His hair is nearly grown completely back and his signs of anxiety are almost nonexistant. He still gets a little scared if something major changes but he deals with it a lot better. For example, if he wakes up while I'm cleaning the cage and it's empty. I've learned to carry them with me while doing this... otherwise he freaks out.

Neutering is still in the future, hopefully. More like something I'd like to get done but no big deal if it isn't.

I'll tell ya, it's been an experience with Niko. There were times when I was so close to giving up out of sheer frustration - I'm so glad that I didn't! He's such a sweetheart and he deserves a stress free, spoiled life, and trust me he's getting it! LOL! smile
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 01/10/08 02:40 AM

What a wonderful update! laugh hug2 to you & Niko! Great job!
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 01/10/08 04:00 AM

clap That's wonderful! So glad to hear he's doing well!!! hug2
Posted By: USMom

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 01/11/08 04:08 AM

I'm so glad to hear it! Yay for Niko! Congratulations laugh
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Anxiety Disorders - 02/07/08 02:03 PM

My glider, Hamlet, does not have as high a level of anxiety as some of the gliders I've read here, but before he was neutered, he was really bad. He has done the whole "running in circles around the top of the cage for hours" thing. He got much better after I got him a cagemate, Rafiki. She sometimes does that, but she has her own issues (she was abused, I adopted her from a rescue.)

Sometimes little things freak him out, but mostly he gets stressed from fights with Rafiki, or if the dogs get too close. Which is his own fault. He likes to climb down to their nose-level and taunt them, then he gets upset when they finally lunge at the cage! (We've mostly been able to catch and correct this behavior from the dogs.)

Cleaning the cage doesn't bother him in the least, but he doesn't like to have his toys changed very often, or he won't play with them at all.
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