GliderCENTRAL

Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts

Posted By: Cora

Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/13/08 05:16 PM

I walked in the glider room for the last check last night Spencer was making this horrific noise and going after his penis. There was bright red blood on his lower abdomen, his clocha, his lips............ I flipped and panicked............you see I did not have an e-collar on hand. This is where my HUGE Thank Yous go in effect to MyBonnie for driving 30 + miles to bring and help apply the e-collar and for staying longer than she had to.
If you dont have an e-collar and you have a glider please get one from xfilefan or someone ASAP.........................you may not have someone as close as I did........I got Lucky!
Another HUGE thank you to Bourbon for calming MyBonnie down before she got here as well as myself both last night and this morning. So many of us give of our time to help these furkids!!
The e-collar is still in place where it must remain for 30 days. Spencer will be neutered ASAP. He is mad but will survive As long as this e-collar stays on!!!
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/14/08 03:06 AM

he is about the same really. he is ticked off. i have a smaller cage today..............................Bourbon says I need to cut the apron strings and let him get self sufficient with that e-collar. Easier said then done cause I know if he gets that e-collar off he is going to go after himself!!! So I am going to put my sleeping bag in the glider room tonight Right next to his cage so I can hear him.
Sorry the update took so long but I have been busy!
I will let yall know tomorrow when I get home from the vet.
Keep those prayers coming.......................and thank you all so much!
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/15/08 02:00 AM

I did sleep by Spen last night til 5 oclock this morning. When I was satisfied that he wasnt getting out of that ecollar he was wearing I went to my bed for a few hours. I called the vets office this morning, Spencer is scheduled for surgery(pom removal) tomorrow. Since I had an ecollar on him the vet was not overly in a hurry to see him. gonna collect spens urine tonight and put it in the fridge.........it has a bad smell and could have been what started this whole thing............but who knows with these little fuzzbutts!!!!
He is not fighting the ecollar as much today and is acting more like himself.

now I need to know what kind of enrichment we can do together....................he obviously cant play with feather teasers and stuff like we used to. I bought some bird feeders with troughs for his water and 1 for his HPW/water mixture. Do I still feed him 1 and half teaspoons since he is not eating fruits or veggies like he was other than what I hand feed him or do I give him more than that???? He weighed 117 grams yesterday with the ecollar on. I will be weighing him everyday cause I know if he loses any weight the collar will have to be readjusted. Is there anything else I need to watch for???? I tried to call Jen, Bourbon and PMd Suz to try to get answers to the above questions.

Thank You all so much for your prayers and well wishes for Spencer...........It means so much to us both!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/15/08 06:37 AM

With the urine odor it sounds like a UTI could be the trigger. Make SURE they put him on an antibiotic and pain meds.

Keep in mind that SM is a pain response-until he gets some relief in the form of treatment, the collar will keep him from going after himself, but it's still going to hurt/be uncomfortable. I wish vets would recognize that when they put off appointments.

You can feed babyfood fruits/veggies (lickable) in the birdfeeders also, or by hand with a spoon, and yogurt.

One of Riker's favorite toys when he was in a collar was the soft fabric ferret balls with the bells inside. And being allowed to run around on the couch. Use hammocks, so if he falls, he lands on something soft, and remove any hard toys he could fall on from the cage. Because of the collar, he won't be as agile, and also won't be able to catch himself as easily if he does-hence the precautions. A hard fall in a collar could result in serious injury.

Other than that I can't think of anything offhand, but I'm short on sleep, too. Hope all goes well at the vet!
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/15/08 03:21 PM

Thanks Jen!!!! He is at the vet. He will be ready to be picked up this afternoon. I told him I wanted Baytril, Flagyl, and pain meds upon discharge. How many weeks should the Baytril and Flagyl be given???? I was going to ask for a 30 day supply?????
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/15/08 04:16 PM

I would like to share some pics of Spencer. Like ya havnt seen em right??? well just pretend for Spencer smile
My hubby bought Spencer for me for my B-day last June. Here is what he looked like when I brought him home:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/DSCN1526.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/DSCN1523.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/DSCN1514.jpg

Here is Spenc a few weeks ago:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/DSCN1732.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/DSCN1731.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/DSCN1733.jpg




Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/15/08 11:27 PM

I have him home now. He was pretty tough on his ecollar it is cracked/busted in a couple of places. But its still on!!!!! I have baytril, flagyl and torb to give him. He is currently sleeping in his bonding pouch on me.........dont think the poor thing got much sleep today!!!
The vet told me not to put anything on his pom removal site................................does that sound right to y'all if your experience says Not then just let me know. smile
Posted By: Srlb

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/16/08 02:11 PM

Cora, no you shouldnt have to put anything on his site at all. Just make sure he is on time with his pain meds. thumb
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/19/08 11:25 PM

OK.......................at about 11 am Spencer was in his zippered pouch...................................I was waiting on the vet to call me back about going to get some more torb when Spencer kicked that collar and started going after his neuter site..........he was cleaner so he must have kicked it a few min or so before he found the scab there during grooming..................I did not even feel him kick the collar.
because I caught him so quickly there was just scant blood at the site. Laura was coming over to change it today anyway she just had to come a little earlier than planned.......................he has lost a little weight from his liquid HPW diet. He drinks massive amounts of water everyday.
Got the collar back on after 2+ hours of holding him restrained in a sweater. but loosely most of the time cause I was giving him body massages and he was laid back (pics to follow later when I upload) so I told Laura not to rush cause we were fine and we were. meanwhile hubby left to go get pain meds from the vet in Longview. He got here before Laura so he was a little calmer than normal!!!
Laura got it back on when we got him to stretch his neck by holding a mealie above his head.........................she is getting too good at this ecollar thing............Thank Goodness.

Now everything is lovely and he is asleep (and drugged) in his zippered pouch around my neck

I do not recommend restaing your glider with a sweater. Spencer no longer has any claws cause he has wittled them down clawing at his ecollar at intervals (he goes through phases of frantically trying to remove his collar).
Thanks again Laura!!!!!! smile
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/20/08 04:05 AM

Here are a few pics as I promised from earlier today.
Here is Spencer all laid back whike I was giving him body and neck rubs until hubby got back with the pain med and before Laura got there with the collar:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0442.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0445.jpg

Laura with Spencer:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0447.jpg

Spencer (my daughter calls him Mr. Funnels):
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0451.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0457.jpg
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/20/08 04:17 AM

one more..................
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0454.jpg
luckily no major damage that time!!!
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/22/08 01:36 AM

We are still OK today...................one day at a time...........................
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/22/08 08:19 PM

Had to go get some bene bac today for the diarrhea he began having last night. The oldfashioned quaker oats just wasnt doing it by themselves. I think I would really like to talk with someone who has been through this with their glider. Sometimes his penis is all the way in and sometimes it just falls out so to speak. His urine is smelling better. I had to walk through hoops just to get the vet to give me another 3 weeks of Baytril and Flagyl. I did not klnow the why I just knew it had to be done...........I offered him vet numbers he could consult with but he declined and sold me the meds. Anyway if anyone is interested in talking with a tired glider caregiver PM me...............I would like to chat about your experiences and you handled certain things. I havnt talked to anyone since the beginning when all this started.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/24/08 05:08 AM

Sunday he weighed 111 grams today he weighs 107 grams..he started out at 117 grams the day after the ecollar went on........ all he does is burn energy trying to get his collar off (unless hes asleep). I feel like I have failed him weight wise..............I give him as much as he will take.....................I know they lose weight in an ecollar. I just didnt know know how much or if I am doing something wrong.........................The diarrhea is some better today. so far tonight he has eaten.........6 mealies, 2 crickets a tsp of watermelon and he will eat most of his 6 tsp of HPW. I also handfeed as many mealies as he will eat after his morning meds
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/24/08 05:10 AM

also approx how long will it take for his pom removal site to get well??? just curious.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/26/08 04:41 PM

Spencer says hi!!!!!
He is being weighed daily now. He weighed 108 grams last night and between 108 and 109 grams night before!!!! YAY.
Thank You so much Karen for being the voice on the other end of the phone who has been through this with 2 gliders at the same time...............You Rock!!!!!
He is such a dirty little boy............I wash him with a damp cloth everyday but he does so much better cleaning himself than I ever could..................be glad when he can!!!! I would like to think I am almost halfway through this but I am not getting my hopes up!!!! smile
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/30/08 11:14 PM

Well it continues to be a day by day thing. stools look better. Weight is stable. collar is on. pom removal site is healing..........................I still have not gotten a definitive answer on this...................why pom had to be removed..................I am thinking now I made a terrible mistake by getting his pom removed.............should have taken him to Dallas for nonpom removal nueter method.........................This has just added more pain and stress to him. I will never again listen to one person.........I know better but you would think..................awww nevermind!!! I am just tired and cranky...LOL
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 05:45 PM

Here are some pics of my guy taken last night:

pics:
Before he got up:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0475.jpg
Collar:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0476.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0477.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0479.jpg
No Mom not that!!!!:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0485.jpg
losing fur:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0481.jpg
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 05:53 PM

Cora, I didn't go to any of your other pics...the "losing fur" caught my attention....

His fur looks wet.

How often are you changing collars?


Riker was in a collar for over 3 months and never lost a hair. I may have some tips.

Q: Can you turn/twist it when it's on his neck?
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 06:00 PM

Fur looks wet cause I put a little bactine where the fur is coming out.
A: Yes
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 06:02 PM

Is there molefoam under the moleskin?

Can you tighten it without choking him so it won't turn easy unless the skin turns with it? That, and daily neckrubs, are (I think) what saved Riker's fur. Let me go find the pic of when I had his collar off....
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 06:17 PM

Here's some pics. You couldn't turn Riker's collar without the skin coming, so no friction between neck and collar....

Most of these were during one grooming session, about a month or 6 weeks before he came out of the collar. As soon as he stopped trying to go after himself, I tried him without it, stayed up for 48 hours-he wouldn't leave it alone before all scab was gone and new hair growing in-it took only a few minutes before he'd go after himself, and back on the collar went. frown I let him groom, but distracted him by holding tissue over his site-and wouldn't let him get at it. When he started to fight me, he went back in the collar. I still got up every hour or two for over 2 weeks, and kept him on me days, scared to death he'd go after himself again! But once they stop, unless a new prolem comes up, usually that's the end of it if you pass the 48 hour mark. (I was still newer then, and learning).



Attached picture IM000869.JPG
Attached picture IM000846.JPG
Attached picture IM000855.JPG
Attached picture IM000861.JPG
Attached picture IM000863.JPG
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 06:20 PM

I also had surgery June 6 that year (2003) through the abdomen to replace a disk in my low back-my Mom watched him the 18 hours I was in the hospital, 3 days after he came out of the collar. After that he was on me most of the time until I was SURE we weren't going back to the SM. It's a scary thing.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 06:38 PM

nice pics Jen!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

Please remember...................everyone reading this please know................every glider has the potential to self mutilate if pain/disc. is involved....................its natures way. They try to "pull" the pain out. Get those ecollars made or ordered and keep them handy. I had relatively no warning that my little cute, fuzzy cuddlebug was about to attack himself and you wont either in most cases!!!!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 06:45 PM

Most of those hadn't been posted before-I think 2 of them.

Here is a quote from PM (since I'm going to reply to it here, with permission):

Quote:
I was using the shot glass style up until 2 days ago. it had skin and foam so does this collar. I put it on there. I can get this collar on and off by myself. I was leaving the prev. collar on for a week at a time............I was too scared he would go after himself


No matter which collar, if it turns, it will wear at the fur. If you can, make it so it won't (but don't choke him). If he's 'spinning' it in an attempt to get out, it may be contributing to the neck problem, and could potentially end up causing a wound. It should be snug.

If the moleskin/foam at the neck gets wet or too much food caked-change collars. That will make the skin/fur easier to abrade. Hold him between your knees in a burrito wrap (towel)-that's what I did with Riker) to take the old collar off and put the new one on, or have someone hold him for you like that. You can clean off and dry the old collar (if still in good shape otherwise) and rotate.

I know it's not easy.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 06:48 PM

OK.......thanks Jen. smile
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 01/31/08 07:03 PM

You can also take it off a little every day or two and give him a neck rub and chance to groom (hold something over the SM site)-collar goes back on if he gets insistent about getting to his site until you're sure his teeth wont' be involved.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/01/08 04:26 AM

OK...............I have now heard both sides of the fence on pom removal nueter versus non pom removal nueter. In Spencers case keep in mind he SM'd prior to nueter.............went after his privates. I understand both sides.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/11/08 11:15 PM

Spencer finished 3 weeks worth of antibiotics 1 week ago. The vet did not (after all that pleading I did) give me a whole 30 days supply. instead He wanted Spencers stool and urine which I provided this morning and he called me back and said the float and smear is neg and the urinalysis is negative so no need to do a culture and sensitivity. The vet tech looked at Spencers abdomen upon my request and said his pom removal site is healing well. He still has a collar on until the scab is gone cause I dont trust it. Spencer is doing well over all. I take his collar off 1-2 times daily so he can groom a bit and I give him body massages so its prob off about 1-2 hours per day under constant supervision of course. The vet is going to order some of the satellite collars like I am using for Spencer.
Posted By: Cora

Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/12/08 08:12 AM

Now I dont know what in the world is wrong. Spencer was on his back curled up making that noise again earlier. I could not clearly see what was up but I think with that satelite collar he could either reach his privates or was rubbing his privates with the edge of the collar. gave him some Torb.................no blood or anything.......................nothing appears evident but something is wrong. Hubby got up and we put the shot glass ecollar back on him. We will be off to the vet in the morning.............................I was so hoping this was almost over,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but noooooooooooooo
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/12/08 08:25 AM

Meaning antibiotic-I see you just gave him Torb.

And sometimes the satellites can still allow access. frown
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/12/08 08:43 AM

shakes head...........he was doing fine up until now.
Posted By: Judie

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/12/08 09:00 AM

How are his stools? Are they normal or dry and hard?

May want to also ask about an Ultra Sound of his reproductive and lower GI tract?
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/12/08 09:07 AM

Could the edge of the collar possibly have scraped? Poor guy-thought he'd almost be out of it.

And I thought I'd seen that on the meds, but I think I was looking on the wrong page. crazy
Plenty of time from end of meds to testing, so that shouldn't have been a factor.

Judie, he began to SM his privates pre neuter. Possibly either hormone related, or a UTI (urine had a very strong odor)-he was on meds 3 weeks and tested negative anything on urine and fecals yesterday morning. He's still in the collar, was neutered but scab's not gone yet, and is now making the SM noise and trying to get at himself again, even with the collar. They thought the satellite collar he was in could possibly have gotten the edge in the wrong place, or maybe he could reach somehow, so changed to the shotglass, and are going back to the vet in the morning. Dose of torb was given a bit ago.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/13/08 12:35 AM

Thanks all!!! Please keep your fingers crossed for Spencer we are going to try something different.........good thing there is a back up plan cause my vet says there is nothing else he can do. frown
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/13/08 05:12 AM

Spencer and Sugar are now together as they have wanted to be for so long...................
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/15/08 01:16 AM

Spencers scab is off. site is healed. He got his ecollar removed for Valentines Day!!! He and Sugar are asleep in the bonding pouch.
thanks so much to everyone who helped me and prayed for us, thought about us or whatever you did,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I will never forget it.
A special thanks to MyBonnie for not only being a rock to me but also having and helping with the whole e-collar thing, to Karen Milas who talked with me several times and sent me something so very, very special, to Bourbon who I talked with a few times in the beginning, and to Maryh who talked with me numerous times and is a flippin genious and figured out the problem. I owe each and everyone of you BIG time!!! WE all saved Spencers life.............no doubt!!!

I will be monitoring him very closely cause I know this may not be over.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/18/08 06:05 AM

Spencer Smd this morning between 7 am and 9 am. his penis was bloody and anialated. within 5 -10 min. it started turning black due to lack of bloodflow to the area. This is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond my scope and my vets. Mary at the glider tree is willing to let her vet see what can be done (besides the obvious penis amputation). So I packed up Spencer and Sugar and went on my 13 hour journey with hubby driving. I will update when I know more. I imagine he and her will remain there for awhile. I hate putting that burden on Mary.........she already has so much to do but thank God for her!!! Well I can no longer see through these tears so nite all.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/18/08 02:41 PM

Cora
hug2 hug2 hug2

Mary certainly knows what she is doing! So, Spencer is in great hands. I am so sorry you are having to go through this. Don't worry too much. I know, easier said than done. Anyway, Jackie recently had both heads of his penis removed and is doing great. I say this to remind you that things CAN go well and that Spencer CAN - and WILL - recover from all of this.

You hang in there. Please call if you want to talk about that penis amputation thing....
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/19/08 12:11 AM

Mary has communicated well with me today. she has him home.
the dead parts of the penis were amputated, numerous tests were done to hopefully find the cause. He is on antibiotics. Everyone says he is such a sweet boy but I already knew that smile
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - 02/19/08 12:15 AM

Val, that's what I wanted to say (only couldn't think yesterday) - the amputation isn't the end of the world, Cora. Riker lost the tip of one, thankfully surgical intervention was avoided with him. Other gliders have lost theirs and made it. If they can get to the underlying cause of whatever is making him hurt, which could be as simple as different antibiotics-it's possible he had more infection in there that was not showing up in urinalysis or fecals-it won't if it's contained inside and not shedding thru the urinary tract or elsewhere, and sometimes white blood cells are apparent and sometimes not to say there is infection SOMEwhere. With Riker's sinus infection we knew he was infected, but could get neither a sample of bacteria, or any wbc's anywhere, to prove it-with him it finally showed on Xray, but not until it went into bony tissue. In the pelvic area that's unlikely to happen. Mary knows how to keep him from doing any more damage until the vet gets to the bottom of things, although I know that doesn't make you miss him any less-but might help in the worry department a little. hug2 hug2
Posted By: sugeebaby

Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Part 2 - 02/19/08 01:25 PM

Cora, Spenser is in the best possible hands he can be in right now. Mary will get to the bottom of this and soon. Like Jen said. I think a new round of meds is needed.
My two e-collar babies have survived without part of their penis. Both did it like Spencer on their own. Spencer will pull through this. It is just another bump inthe road and nothing else. Cal me if you need to talk. You know I here for you if you need to talk to someone that has been through all this before
Posted By: Cora

Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Part 2 - 02/20/08 02:27 AM

Keep those prayers coming!! And thanks so much!!! Mary says Spencer and Sugar (yes she is with him) ate better last night and played and played. Course he still has his collar on and will for awhile. I hope Mary is enjoying my sweet boy cause I sure miss him. I know he is where he needs to be.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Part 2 - 02/23/08 06:41 PM

I talk with Mary daily.....................Spencer goes to the vet for his follow up on Monday. So far So good as of this moment! smile
Posted By: mary h

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Part 2 - 02/25/08 03:12 AM

Hi Mom...
First of all I want to tell you that I luv ya and I miss ya a real whole lot...your my special mom.

I know you talk to Mary a lot...but she's not telling you the real story on all this. I am being a very good boy down here...and this is why.

After you left she gave us toys to play with and gave us mealies and I thought she was pretty cool and being here for a short while wouldn't be so bad. The next morning we went for a ride and she let me stay on her. We went in this place with lots of people and everyone was holding me and saying how sweet I was...then the plot began to thicken...

This big man took me...he was telling me what a good little man I was...I thought he was nice too until the lecture began. He told me..."nice little boys don't go around flashing the ladies...I'll take care of it".

He did mom...Mary told you the truth about me not prolapsing anymore...no..sir..re..bob. I'm scared to...if he gets hold of me again I could have a higher pitched voice and all my manhood would be gone forever.

I will just be a real good boy...you come get me out of here and take me home...and me and you will find a way to grow it back...I believe in ya mom and I luv ya a bunch...

Spencer
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 02/27/08 06:14 PM

Well I have not updated this thread cause Spencer is still OK. He went back to the vet monday for a checkup and test results. Mary put some stuff in the mail for me and when it gets here I will scan it and post it. It does not however sound like we know anymore about what caused him to do this to his penis then we did before:(

I miss Spencer so very much...............not an hour goes by that I am not thinking of he and Sugar.

I just hope in a month or so he will be able to return home to me.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 02/29/08 03:17 AM

Got the pathology report on the specimen marys vet sent to a lab in Califormia. Mary mailed it to me. I hope this works so yall can see it:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/SpencersLab.jpg
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 02/29/08 12:15 PM

So it was a bacterial infection, right (was hard to read). How is he doing now??? And what do they think his prognosis is? Will he be ok after this?
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 02/29/08 01:58 PM

Possibly...........the infection may have been from him self mutilating the day before. The test is on the sample of the penis they had to amputate because it became necrotic within minutes of him selfmutilating. He is recovering. prognosis from this event is good.............................in the future.................who knows. He will not come home to me for awhile longer yet! *sigh*
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 02/29/08 02:02 PM

jacknsally summarized it for me on another board................thanks hun:

the first part mentions his symptoms & white cell blood count of 5,000- then it goes into details of the sample they sent in.

His Diagnosis-

Penile appendage. Severe diffuse coagulative necrosis with congestion cellulitis with Intralesional bacteria and acute vasulitis

Comments

The lesion is most consistant with an inflammatory process and may be secondary to the bacterial infection although previous injury cannot be completely excluded. The vasculitis is most likely due to the inflammatory lesion of the tissue section
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 03/04/08 12:56 AM

great check up for Spencer according to Maryh today...............his collar was removed at the vets office.............YAY!!! His weight without the collar was 101 grams...........great work Mary! The bestest news is that if all goes well Spencer can come home in 2 weeks!!!!!!!!! Did you hear me......................2 weeks. I am keeping all crossables crossed. smile
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 03/10/08 01:30 PM

Spencer has been collarless for 1 week . Yay Spencer!!!
I am planning on driving down to get him & Sugar Sunday the 16th. Without Maryh and her vet Spencer would probably be a statistic!
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 03/14/08 04:04 AM

Just 3 more days and I believe I am going to be able to pick up my sweet boy!!!! *happy dance*
Mary says shes going to hate my guts but I dont believe her!!! smile
We were so lucky to have someone take him in with a knowledgable vet to save Spencer from himself. Mary is a glider angel for sure!!!
Posted By: ozzi

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 03/19/08 01:43 AM

Yeah Spencer!!!!
I can't wait to hear of the home coming news dance
Many thanks to Mary thumb
Pat
Posted By: Cora

Re: Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts - Par - 03/19/08 02:12 AM

Well Ozzi since you went to the trouble of digging this thread up the least I can do is update........I beleive they both knew me after 4 weeks!!! Spencer went right down my bra...LOL I got to see some of Mary and Charlies special gliders. I got to meet Tracy (tootles)...................she stopped by Marys while I was there with her 2 skin kids!!!
Spencer is 20 grams heavier and sugar is a-hem *cough* *cough* 40 grams heavier.......................
Mary spoiled my babies tremendously!!!
On the way home I noticed Sugar was in heat................Oh boy oh joy...................so I watched him like a hawk through her heat................no prollapsing ...............................didnt keep him from *trying* though!!!
Today they are acting normal again so now maybe I can get some cute pics!!! I have been walking around in the clouds every since they came home!!! My patients faces are lighting up hearing that they can see Spencer this week!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 03/31/08 02:26 AM

Cora called me earlier this afternoon and left me a voicemail saying that she needed to take Spence back to Mary and Charlie. Unfortunately, I didn't have my phone until about 20-30 min ago.

He started SMing again. So far, that is all I know. I tried calling her home and cell, but I'm assuming she's still on the road or with Mary.

She has no internet right now. Last night bad storms came through our area and knocked a tree limb on her house as well. Not sure if the limb and internet are connected, but the storms are for sure.

Please keep Cora and Spencer in your prayers. I will try to keep everyone posted as I know things, and hope that if Tracy or Mary have any updates, they will do the same.
Posted By: tootles

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 03/31/08 02:33 AM

I talked to cora just a little bit ago and I am meeting her tommorow morning to pick up spencer and take him to Mary. I can't meet halfway because the kiddo's in school but I am meeting her right as she comes to houston so she does not have to go through houston or all the traffic. And Laura you are right she does not have any internet service right now. So Mary is waiting for him and I am sure she will keep Cora and everyone else informed. Please think of Cora this is very hard for her right now heart
Posted By: Cora

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 03/31/08 04:38 AM

Hi guys got a temp dial up fix for now. Thanks Laura and Tracy for updating. Yea Spencer must have some sort of irritation "down there" and began attacking himself right after I placed him and Sugar in the bonding pouch today. e-collar is in place and torb being given. I tried him without the collar earlier and he went straight for himself. No prolapse of whatevers left of his penis and once again no warning. I just dont understand this at all. Hopefully Dr Fronefeld will see the problem tomorrow when Mary takes him. Maybe its just a UTI Or another mystery either way I appreciate all the prayers/good thoughts we can get.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 03/31/08 04:41 AM

Oh yea there is def a half a tree on my roof!!! Right over the glider room.......................lucky we put that metal roof on last spring or things could be much worse. We got 5 inches of rain in 25 hours. The people 2 and 3 doors down have major damage to their houses with trees on them.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 03/31/08 08:06 PM

He and Sugar are at Marys. I just got home and the tree is all gone...............hubby took care of it (or rather had it taken care of). The tree bent the Carbon monoxide vent on the roof causing a leak....................Good thing that was taken care of today!!! My glider room is fairly sealed off thank goodness.
Thanks Tracy for meeting me in Houston and taking them the rest of the way, I so greatly appreciate it!! smile
Posted By: tootles

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 03/31/08 08:27 PM

Your welcome Cora!!! I was glad to help you. Mary checked him out and said it did not look so bad. She got them fixed in the cage before I left so they will be spoiled while they are there. It will go well just wait and see.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/01/08 01:42 AM

Here are the pics we took yesterday:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0805.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0804.jpg

Here is what half a 50 ft tree looked like on our house!!!!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0810.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_0809.jpg
Posted By: Cora

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/04/08 10:52 PM

Talked with Mary earlier today. Spencer went to his vet appt today. Mary Has been taking the collar off some every day and nothing. The vet took the collar off today and looked him over and such and couldnt find anything wrong. Mary had a few other gliders at the vet being seen and was there about 3 hours with the collar off and he did not go after himself. Mary and Charlie got home and started in the house and heard him in the pouch.......................got him out and sure enough he was going after himself "down there".
She looked him over and he did not do much damage................bout like he did last sunday here if that. Spencer is probably a self mutilator period and will have to remain in an ecollar for the rest of his life. Maybe Tracy will be able to bring them back to me the weekend of the 19th. He and his cagemate, Sugar will live here with me now that I know whats what. I got some supplies to try to make satellite collars with snaps with softer plastic..............wish me luck!!!!
Posted By: Cora

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/04/08 11:14 PM

Its Ok really we can do this. He and I and Sugar have a VERY strong bond so they would be happier with me....................not that they dont love Mary but well you know.....................



Posted By: Cora

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/06/08 09:15 PM

OK Spencer is visibly having some discomfort..............restless, grumpy with Sugar,not sleeping with her, wanting to go after his chlocha which is kind of pooching out according to Marys call to me earlier. Mary is trying to figure out exactly what is wrong. She has given him the Metacam. Why did I have him 6 months before he went after his penis? Sexual Maturity? He was approx 8 months old in Jan when he went after himself. Got him nuetered, 3 weeks baytril and flagyl and ecollar for 30 days. Put him and sugar together, took off the collar then he went after his penis again beyond repair and that is when I took him to Mary the first time and most of his penis almost to the Y had to be amputated cause it was necrotic within 5 to 10 minutes of attacking himself. Mary had him for 4 weeks. The first 2 weeks he had the collar on, the 2nd 2 weeks he did not. Then I went and got him. For 2 wonderful weeks he was fine then all of a sudden he was going after his privates again???? Took him back to Mary in an ecollar last Sunday and the rest of the story is within this thread. Mary is calling the vet in the morning but remember the vet could find anything wrong on friday.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/07/08 10:19 PM

No ideas on what may be happening??? anyone?????
Posted By: Cora

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/11/08 12:39 PM

Yall keep all crossables crossed as Spencer goes back to the vet today to see if there is something physically wrong. Thanks so much to those of you that answered my PMs indulging me and brainstorming for my Spencer. This community is the best!!
Posted By: Cora

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/12/08 07:08 PM

Talked with Mary yesterday.....................have been processing the info before I posted. Spencer was put on Nuerontin yesterday which is prescribed to people for Nueropathy. Spencer may have a damaged nerve "down there" somewhere so the medication is worth a try. He will remain under Mary and her vets care. If this doesnt work then I am told the vet will try something else. I just hope for Spencers sake he gets relief from whatever is ailing him.

Mary has made him another type of satellite collar cause the one with the snaps weighs about 14 grams which means he has been carrying around 10 percent of his body weight around his neck. The one she has rigged up is approx. 4 grams.

Thanks for the prayers, well wishes and checking this thread to check on my boy!!!
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/12/08 07:23 PM

Oh, this little guy deserves a break, you both do! Praying very hard this will work and he can come back home to his mom! This has got to be so terribly hard on you. Thank God for Mary, what an angel she is!! Loads of prayers and good thoughts going out. Keep us posted.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/12/08 08:03 PM

I know he does Mary. This is hard on all 3 of us (Spencer, Sugar and Myself)....................Harder than some will ever know cause they are so bonded to me I would not not be afraid to take them outside on me.....................They would stay ON ME they are just that bonded and then some. I love them both Sooooooooooooooooo much. Yes, Thank God for Mary ..................I would hate to think how this situation would have turned out if it were not for her!!!
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/12/08 08:15 PM

Well, you have been fighting so hard for him (and with him), as has he, to get himself better. I hope and pray this will be the thing that does it! You all have some serious catching up to do (I think the mealies will flow then!! lol) Keeping everything crossed!
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/12/08 09:20 PM

If you ever take him off of the Neurontin, just remember to take it down as gradually as possible. It can have some nasty side effects in humans, don't know what would happen with such a little one. I hope this works for him, you have all been through so much. Sending lots of prayers his way. hug2
Posted By: Holly1221

Re: Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/12/08 09:42 PM

Cora, i definately agree with Gretchen on that. i'm on Neurontin myself [[as well as methadone]] and i've gone off both, accidently b/c of a mistake with my doctors and it was not a pretty site. i was cold all the time, or cold one minute and hot next, i couldn't get comfortable in my bed and i could not sleep at all, my house was on 80degrees roastin my poor parents out, i could not stop shaking at all and i wasn't really hungry all the time, i felt like i was just sick but it was withdrawal. i was not a happy person when i went to the ER and finally found out what was wrong with me. so yes, if you do take him off, check with the vet first....and do it gradually

i hope your little man gets better. or as much as he can get better. hug2 to you and yours
Posted By: Cora

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/14/08 12:29 PM

Thanks so much everybody!! Mary says Spencer is responding well to the new medication and spending time sleeping with his cagemate, playing more so he must be more comfortable at this time. Mary has been instructed by the vet to remove his collar Wednesday and watching him to see if he attacks himself. He will be there at least 8 more weeks longer if this med does not work. Sugar just loves Spencer so much and she does not have me so it is very important Spencer stays comfortable so that she does not stress even worse.
Posted By: Cora

(About Spencer) check with your vets please... - 04/14/08 10:26 PM

As most of you know my little Spencer was recently placed on the generic form of neurontin for a possible "angry nerve" as Mary calls it. Could nerve damage/angry nerve be a cause of some self mutilators???? Could Neurontin help other gliders???? Please check with your vets for Mary for their opinion on the matter. Thank You for your time for the good of the glider!!!!
Posted By: PangolinsZoo

Maryh wants you to check with your vets please... - 04/15/08 05:58 PM

A bit off_topic but I can tell you a couple things about nerve pain and neurontin (gabapentin is the generic).
I realize I'm not a sugar glider, but I do have personal experience with this drug.
First of all, it does at least decrease some nerve pain, and may make some go away depending on how bad it is in the first place. I imagine that if the suggies are SMing because of nerve pain, it would do the trick to make them more comfortable. I know that when my nerves are acting up and they hurt I have a tendency to push or smack my hand or arm where the pain is. It never makes it go away, but it is sort of an involuntary reaction to the pain, which may be what they are doing when they SM (Maybe I'm more like a suggie than I thoguht...)
Second, the side effects of that drug are a little weird, so if a glider was taking it, I wouldn't expect them to act normal. Most of the time I was on it I had very vivid dreams that I had a hard time waking up from, and when I was awake I would have to ask people if I really was awake (which didn't make my co-workers or boss feel very comfortable about me working in the warehouse driving the forklift). I would just keep in mind that giving a little critter a drug that has that effect on a human might make them a little off, or overly sleepy.
Also, when I came off it (stopped taking it due to the side-effects), I had one of the worst migraines imaginable, and I was screaming in pain for hours before I fell asleep and slept for 7-8 hours and still work up with a milder, but still present, headache. I wouldn't miss a dose if I was giving it to a critter.



Posted By: Cora

Maryh wants you to check with your vets please... - 04/15/08 09:24 PM

Thank you for your input Shana!!

Mary said Spencer did not have such a good day today. He started crabbing and stuff earlier. she waited a little while and listened and he did it again and tring to get at himself (has ecollar on). Mary gave him the torb. Something is bothering him but what??? He hates the neurontin............mary says he shakes his head so quickly a lot of it gravitates out.........lol

The vet told her to put karo syrup in it but he did not like that either. so now she has another question:

What other routine meds can be given for the obvious discomfort he is having??? Could it be nerve damage down there??? Or something "pulling" From the diff surgeries he has had either the pom off removal or penis amputation.
He has had quite a bit of torb since Jan when all this started. I just want Spencer to have some kind of quality of life but most of all I want him comfortable and so does Mary.

Thank you all so much for helping, praying, thinking good thoughts and keeping your fingers crossed for my boy. Mary thank you for your never tiring care for Spencer. He loves you too........................Sugar not so much!!! smile

Posted By: Cora

Re: Maryh wants you to check with your vets please... - 04/21/08 01:07 AM

Please, please dont for get to talk with your vets. I have talked with a few of you already. 1 vet did not beleive an "angry nerve" could be possible in gliders nor the pain from scar tissue or a "pulling " sensation from the 2 surgeries Spencer has had that has him back to hurting therefore attempting self mutilation. I say this because I talk with Mary daily and Mary sees the same thing I did...................that boy will go awhile before he starts................then its like some type of pain or discomfort comes over him and he mutilates his privates.
He is not able to tell us what is wrong. Neither Mary nor I beleive he is just a mutilator but that something is causing this.......................we want some more vet opinions here. currently he is getting the generic of nuerontin every 12 hours chicken flavored of course(Mary had it done special for him). However every 2 or 3 days he starts getting restless and making that low crab noise towards his privates........................he has an ecollar on still...............she gives him torb at that point and then he is fine til the next time.
I have talked with people who have had some surgeries and do suffer nerve pain related to those surgeries.......................do gliders not have nerve endings everywhere like humans??
Just please ask and get back to Mary or myself even if its a PM or phone call.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Maryh wants you to check with your vets please... - 04/22/08 12:59 AM

I think Mary takes Spencer back to the vet on friday. Again thanks for your time!
Posted By: Cora

Re: Maryh wants you to check with your vets please... - 04/23/08 11:02 PM

Here is someone elses vets opinion................permission was given for me to post it:

If there's enough scar tissue it can feel tight. It can itch, or even be painful when the animal moves and the tissue stretches. Much like the surgical glue some gliders just can't seem to tolerate. Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done, unless another procedure can reduce the amount of scar tissue-of course that risks making things worse, also. Some people develop little scar tissue from a surgery, some quite a bit, depending on the body's response-and it differs for every individual. It may be that he'll need to continue on periodic meds for his lifetime to keep him from going after it. It's also possible there is nerve damage. Damaged nerves can give off some very strange sensations-and a sensitive glider just can't ignore it. Yes, animals have nerve endings everywhere just like we do. In some cases, theirs are even more sensitive than ours-their survival depends on it in the wild, their senses and perceptions much more acute than ours are. It's possible with time and 'therapy', like soaking the site, gentle stretching/massage of the tissue, in time it won't bother him so much. There is a reason for "once an SM, always an SM", as any bothersome sensation will send the glider after an injury or infection, while another with the same situation won't pay any mind...just like people, gliders have differing tolerances to pain or annoyances. It's likely SMs have a lower than average tolerance (or more sensitive). It was once thought (and some vets still think) that animals 'don't feel pain like we do'..which is not true. They are better at hiding it (again going to survival instinct), but that doesnt' mean it's not there, or not an issue.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Maryh wants you to check with your vets please... - 04/23/08 11:10 PM

Well after the neurontin therapy has been in Spencers system for awhile the ecollar was to come off today. Mary took it off and he was OK for awhile but he still ended up going after himself so she gave him a low dose of torb and back in the ecollar went!
His vet appointment is scheduled for Monday not Friday as I originally thought. I asked Mary to talk with the vet about any meds that will keep him as comfy as possible cause he cant tell me when he is in pain I just have to go by his body language......................you see I plan to bring Spencer and Sugar home next month and manage him here. They are so bonded to me................especially Sugar and this seperation is so very hard on all 3 of us.
I am going to start calling vets all over to see if I can find someone who is willing to learn and consult with other vets (if Dr. Reese is not interested but I will call him first in the morning).

Posted By: Cora

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 04/29/08 11:24 AM

Oh My Word I cant beleive I have not updated this!! Well Spencer went back to the vet yesterday. He finally went after himself in front of the vet. He put some type of cream on it and he stopped. Mary has been instructed to give him Neurontin every 8-9 hours. He will be on this medication long term. He will remain on Torb as needed as well as that cream (must be some kind of topical anagelsic).
He will be in an ecollar when he can not be closely supervised.
The best part:
He and Sugar are coming home next week!!! YAY!!!!
Posted By: Cora

Cora and Spencer, Part 2 - 05/10/08 03:52 AM

Well Spencer and Sugar returned home earlier this week. He remains in an ecollar. He is on gabrapentin(Sp?) twice a day. He gets torb when he needs it. The first night he kept trying to get to himself and was given torb about 11pm and finally got comfortable around 4:30am. The second night he became uncomfortable and trying to get at himself around 1am again was given torb and settled down around 3:30am. The 3rd night(last night) he was perfect.........played and was more himself. I did have to give him pepto bismal yesterday afternoon for gas,and soft stools(didnt know gliders could pass gas). I think they are glad to be home!!

His ecollar is sattellite type with a staple instead of snaps so its lighter(4 or 5 grams). The soft plastic its made of has to be wide enough so he cant act like a contortionist and get to himself...............which he will try if he is uncomfortable................he just seems to get a different look in his eye when he is not comfortable and trys to get at himself........does that make sense?? Maybe he had a bad first 2 nights because of the change of humidity/temps here not as humid and hot as down south..........just a theory especially if he has an angry nerve as the vet has said. I dont know what hes got but its something!! Sugar put on another 40 plus grams at the glider tree and Spencer put on some grams as well. He can eat and drink out of shallow dishes with the type of collar he has. He still has fur around his neck even after having this type of ecollar on every day for 1 month or so. He still does not like the collar and trys to get it off all the time. Its really funny when he gets Sugar to help him try to pull it off. He and her stay on me most of the day and I stay up with him at night(or most of it)!! Here is some pics of them.................I will write more later I dont type fast and I have to get back in the glider room.

These pics have been taken over the past 3 days:
Spencer sleeping .....You can barely see his collar

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1064.jpg

I am awake now:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1067.jpg

Took ecollar off to clean him up last night:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1070.jpg

Let him eat mealies with his hands:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1071.jpg

big boy:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1096.jpg

Sugar:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1116.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1109.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1117.jpg

Their cage:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1097.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1098.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/angelfish_37/IMG_1099.jpg



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