GliderCENTRAL

pulling hair out?

Posted By: ssdreamsicles

pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 10:05 PM

Ok i had gizmo out last night and i noticed there is a .5 inch ring all the way around his tail where the hair is missing. The tail its self looks good. He is healthy and nothing has changed. I did go away for a week but hubby took care of the gliders and gizmo likes us both. Could he have pulled the hair out due to that? Hunni his mate has twins in pouch but she has had before and he has never gotten stressed. I am nutering him as soon as my vet feels she can do the surgery. She is learning about these little guys and will start treating them. His mate seems to not have enough milk for the first 2 weeks of the joeys life and i always have to supp them. They also come oop early. They are both great parents and love there babies but i just think it better for them for her to be fixed. Plus i cant track her linage too well. I have wanted to get him fixed sooner but they are my hubby's pair and he said no but now he has given the go ahead and im just waiting for my vet. Anyways the only thing that has changed is i went way for a week. I will watch him closly but im worried what if he keeps doing this. He is 1.5 yrs. He has never done anything and has always been healthy. It will be a couple of months befor he gets fixed but if he is still doing this what affect will that have on nutering him? I plan on nutering these joeys as well if they are boys so that my hubby can keep them with ther mommy and daddy and have his colony. Any advice or input as to why he might have done this would be great!
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 10:14 PM

Can you get a pic? Are you normally the one that does the daily care (feeding, playing)? If so, it could be the fact your hubby was doing it (keep in mind, with joeys on board, they will be naturally a little more stressed to begin with). Is there any redness? How is she acting towards him? Is it possible she somehow did it? I have an overgroomer and he stresses very easily (sometimes I cannot even find a viable reason when he does it). I would definitely watch him and if it gets worse, a vet visit is in order to make sure he is ok. Hopefully it was just him missing his mom!!
Posted By: Dancing

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 10:17 PM

Sometimes if a glider has injured his/her tail, you will not see any evidence of the injury other than the glider over grooming it. This could be a break or seperation (between joints) and the over grooming could be due to pain.

What you described could be from an injury or even early onset HLP. Hind leg paralysis is from a calcium deficency but not always diet related. If a glider has a bacterial or parasitic infection, it can prevent calcium from being absorbed properly even if on the absolutely best diet.

I would have the glider's tail xrayed to check for injury. I would also have a fecal (float and smear) done to check for infection or parasites. Watch him closely because they can self mutilate their tail in a very short time, even to the extent of chewing it completely off over night.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 10:22 PM

I do not have a pic but i will try to get one if he will sit still after dinner. Eating now.

Normely they are not stressed at all. I am the one that normely does the care and such but bill is always messing with them and gives them treats every morning. She was a very stressed glider when i got her but is not anymore. She is very friendly and they love each other very much. I have not heard them fighting. This is why im so confused why this was done. All my gliders is on HPW. One other thing has changed and that is the amount of mealies they get due to the shortage but surly that is not the case! You know the dark part of the tail at the end that is where it was done. No redness or abraisions or chew marks. It looks like he just dicided he needed a new look dunno Really though i will be watching him closly and if needed he wil be going to the vet. Im just worried if it continues what affect it will have on his fixing. What are the chances of him becoming a over groomer at his age with no prob befor and really no changes?
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 10:39 PM

Unfortunately, any glider can become one at any time, I believe. These little critters are very complex and there is so much we don't know about them. I would watch him and just in case, have an ecollar made up and know how to use it!
Posted By: Judie

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 10:49 PM

Plucking hair from the tail is usually caused by pain, stress, and can also be an indication of severe constipation.

My suggestion is to have a direct fecal smear and float to make sure something is not bothering him.

As to possible constipation... offer more fruit and veggies and eleminate any dry food in the cage. Feed BML or HPW with the fruit and veggies.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 11:12 PM

Im loading a pic now. He is 94 grams and is already on HPW with veggy or veggy relish and fruit smoothy. All my gliders have 2 water bottles one with a ball one that is like a well. His poop is normal and he is pooing. Befor i left for MI his tail was not like that so it was done while i was gone.

My gliders do not get fry food but once in a blue moon.

the pic should be loaded in a few min
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 11:16 PM

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/ssdreamsicles4/PICT0252.jpg

Here is a pic. I do have 2 e-collors on hand just in case.

I did just watch him poo and pee and there was no hissing at all. He pooped normal.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 11:30 PM

as a side note his tail is bushy even at the end i have it smother down to show the full missing hair.

I also felt his tail and there is no break or seperation that i can feel. It feels normal. I also checked hunni over and she has not missing hair.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 11:34 PM

Not trying to upset, but that does not look good to me. I would have it checked. I don't know if it is my eyes, but is it black? It is kind of hard to see the skin, but it looks black to me.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 11:36 PM

my computer is acting funny - so....

Is his tail pink where the fur is missing? Or is it a bit blackish?

This is not normal and he really should be seen by a vet. I agree, x-rays and fecals are pretty necessary at this point. If the tail is not pink, head on out the door now.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/14/08 11:37 PM

Guess I was posting at the same time as Mary. It looks black to me too, but I thought it might just be my computer.

It really is best to get to the vet NOW, before there is any SM... after the fact, it is much more intensive to care for.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:01 AM

His tail is a very dark brown and almost looks black but it has always been this way. when u go up to the part where the fur turns lighter it is pink. Ok u know how a standart gliders tail is grey then black at the end? Well he is more cinni and here the tail is black on a standard grey his fur is brown. My lion male ares end of his tail is even more dark. Carmella ares lion female's tail is the same way. It is really not black but gray.

Gizmo's tail where the fur is missing is grey but pink where the lighter fur is am i making sense.

I do have a e collor in need be. He is not messing with it right now. Im up most of night and have not noticed him messing with it. I do not have a trustable glider vet here. My vet i work for is learning about them so she can treat them. I will take him in tomorrow and have her look at it and see what she thinks. The skin looks good to me.

Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:10 AM

im confused. my lion gliders and cinnis the part where it is brown the skin is light grey. But further up the tail turns pink. I was under the impression this is normal for that colored glider. These 4 gliders are healthy and have never had injuries. Im not sure if it is my camera but his skin is not black. Im not saying there is nothing to be worried about cause a glider should not pull his hair out but now im upset cause im affraid it might get bad. He has never done this and i really thought it was due to me leaving. I really hope so. I will take him in tomorrow and have her look at him. I know how to do a fecal on a dog or cat how much diff is a fecal smear. I need to know exactly what to do as i am still gathering info for her to learn. she isa good vet and i trust her fully.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:19 AM

It may be the pic, it just looks black to me. Watch him and keep the collar handy. I don't have an answer on the fecal, as my vet does it and I have no clue there.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:25 AM

it has to be the pic cause when i look at it in person it is light grey. You had better belive i will be watching him. I have a collar and will use it if he gives me cause too. I will take him in tomorrow to be on the safe side and have her look at the skin and feel to see if she thinks there is a break. I feel a normal tail(i have felt a broken one before). I really hope this is all due to me being gone as the night i got home he was plastered to the cage looking at me waiting for his treat. I will be watching it like a hawk though to see if he keeps doing this. How long does it take for new fur to grow back? What are things i should look for. I hope for a clean fecal to at last clear that up.

If he did not have a clear fecal wouldnt that cause loose stools or smelly poo? i have only seen what parasites due to a cat or dog so im not sure what they do to a glider. I know they can be sick.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:28 AM

No, not necessarily. Roo had worms and yet her poo was 'normal' and she never made a sound going potty. But she passed a live round worm!

Keep us posted. Not trying to make you more worried, but safe is always the way to play it. Going through this sm stuff, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:37 AM

I will deff keep you posted. Pappy i know you have been thru so much with timmy and such. I know you are not trying to worry me but it is better to be safe then sorry.

I have had him sense he was a baby how would he get worms if he does have them? I have also had hunni for a yr now. They are not around any other gliders as gizmo is male agressive. I have heard of them getting things from bugs but i only feed mealies and once in awhile supers. Once in a blue moon they will get one wax worm. On ocasion they have had a frozen pinki rat(home breed)

Please dont think im trying to prove anything wrong i just want to know how and whys. Is a bad habbit of me. The vet i work for prob wants to strangle me cause i ask Q's so much so i can learn.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:49 AM

Animals can get intestinal parasites any number of ways. The most common is by ingesting something that has eggs on it. Some parasites' eggs are so small that they can be carried on the air and inhaled.

Tapeworms are gotten by eating a whole flea.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:55 AM

I put the e-collar on just to see how hard it would be to do it and what snap had to be used and man was he [censored]. I have looked further at his tail and while it is not black the spot where he has pulled the hair out is darker then the rest of that area. I am worried and will be taking him to the vet tomorrow. She has not treated gliders but has a person she can talk to that does. Is there any vets you guys go to that are good that she can referance with if need be?
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:59 AM

I dont have fleas or rather my dogs dont but we have had a prob with sugar ants is there any possability of them causing a prob?

I will have her do a urine test as well as a fecal to be on the safe side.

I know gliders hide there illnesses very well but if he had worms or was constapated would he not go for that area? Why the end of the tail. I see no visable injury at the tail area other then the pulling of the hair. Im wondering if the darker area is brusing do tu yanking the hair out.

Again please guys im not trying to conterdickt anything being said i just want to learn and so far none of my gliders has ever been sick or hurt. So this is new to me.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 01:05 AM

You can actually carry them home with you when you go to pet stores (they are notorious for roundworms!) I always take my shoes off just in case before coming in!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 01:52 AM

wow didnt know that and here i thought i was doing good being carfull what i brought home from the vet and pet stores can be bad.


Ok i need to know a few things just in case.
If his tail is damaged and he has to wear a collar can he stay in the same cage? Can he stay with hunni. She has 2 joeys in pouch.

Do i take him to a vet i dont trust that see's gliders or do i go with a vet that i do trust that will have to refer to another vet in things she does not know about.
Posted By: Ellen

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 03:13 AM

I would take her to a Vet I trust.

Anyone in KY help?
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 03:32 AM

I have a vet i trust. I work for her. She is learning about gliders so she can treat them. I have actualy been gathering info for her. She has a vet she has worked with that treats gliders in another town that she can refer to. I would rather take him to her. I do have a vet in my town that see's suggies but i have had somthing bad happen due to carlessness in my eyes and i dont feel comfy taking my gliders there. I would rather take him to my vet and have her refer to another vet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 03:44 AM

When I got beast his ENTIRE TAIL was furless. THe lady told me that he was neglected and curled his tail around himself and ripped the hair out. I suspect this do to stress, or just being plain lonely/heartbroken. He is doing fine now and his tail fur has been growing back, but it is still very lightly covored. He was probably just stressed out from missing his mommy, and didnt know what to do with himself frown
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 03:54 AM

I really hope that is it. He acts as if nothing is wrong. I will have a fecal and urine test and have my vet look at his tail and the skin to see if the skin looks healthy.

What color was his tail were the darker hair was supp to be?
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:21 PM

He may have just bruised it there too. When the hair starts to grow back it looks like it's turning black. I took Daddy back to the vet like 4 times when he had fur missing on his tail because I thought it was turning black, but she assured me that it was just the hair growing back. Sure enough, he is prefectly fine now.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 12:30 PM

On the one hand, it could be simple stress (ie, you left), and will come back. On the other hand, it could be more. IF the glider decides to SM, it can be irreparable in an hour. Safest thing with a glider always is to have it checked out by a vet just in case it's not simple stress. By the time he lets you know for sure he could be at the point of losing his tail. No one can say from a pic whether he will or won't-all that can be seen is a symptom at this point-of what is the question.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 05:42 PM

I really think it is due to the stress of me leaving. He went from tons of attn day and night to passing attn from hubby. Dont get me wrong hubby gives them attn but nothing like me.

I watched him all thru the night and he didnt even so much as glance at the spot and acted his normal self. My vet is booked with surgerys today and sence he is doing fine so far i will keep a close eye on him today and tonight and then bring him to work with me tomorrow and he will be looked at and have a fecal and urine test just to be on the safe side. Now is something was to happen i will take him in today right when they close.

I was wondering he is a mad man on his wodent wheel and where the bare goes thru the wheel there is a pip over it. Is it possabel he didnt pull the hair out and that he got the hair of his tail cought in that? After further looking the hairs is not missing all the way around there is still some on one side. Im just wondering if i should take that pipe off the bar the wheel sits only 2 of my wheels have that pipe as they are new but the others are used and dont have it.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 05:45 PM

I believe the pipe is to keep the tail from getting caught. Glad he isn't messing with it. Keep us posted.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/15/08 06:04 PM

I thought so as well but was a thought. I try to keep there cage safe and not to have anything in there they could hurt them selfs with but with gliders sometimes u cant be care full enough.

Again i really think it was the stress of me being gone but just to be on the safe side i will take him in. He is one of my more bonded gliders so im sure he missed mommy and although he is daddys glider nobody cares for him like mommy smile

Another thing is while i was gone bill had him out and sometimes gizmo will get very hyper and run off and give u a run for your money. He did this and got under the entertainment center. Bill got him out but who know if he cought his hair and yanked it out. So this is another reason going to the vet would be a good idea. I have felt and looked his tail over and it looks good aside from the missing hair and he does not act like it hurts if u mess with it. He is such a good boy. Of course after a few examinations from me a treat was in order and he got the last mealie. I do need to order and he does not know what was the last one so shhhh! smile

The babies who are now 8 months come to the front of the cage when they hear u expecting a mealworm treat and look so dicapointed when there is none. But they are pasified witha yoggie.

I will deff keep you updated. I will keep a watchfull eye on him today and thru the night and then he will go with me to work tomorrow to be looked at. Keep your fingers crossed for a clean bill of health!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 12:36 AM

ok guys i need help. After watching him thru the day the tail looked to take on a darker look. I went ahead and took him to the vet i work for along with all the info i gathered for her. His fecal smear and float came back neg as well as his uinalises. Over all he is healthy but she did not like the look of his tail. She wanted him in a e-collar asap. He does not seem to be bother ing it but the damage has been done. She wants to see him back in a couple of days to see if the skin looks any better. If it gets worse she thinks it would be better to go ahead and take the damaged part off. she has recomended to wait on his nutering. I really did not relize how bad it was untill she explained the color and what i was looking at. I knew after i looked at it today after i posted it had looked darker. I just dont understand why he did this to his tail. Was it stress due to me leaving?

Now on to the help. I have him in a e-collar and he is [censored]. Do i keep him in his cage with hunni? I feed them in a flat plate will this work with the collar. It is one of the 3 section one from critterlove. Will he be able to get to his pouch? What do i need to do. I want his tail to get better so anything just let me know.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 12:40 AM

When Petey had an ecollar on, I clipped the pouch kitty cornered and then put a clip in the middle of the back (so the top stayed open in a triangle) so that he could get in and out of it. I also put a no sew bridge the went across and was as wide and deep midway down the cage in case he climbed and fell (I put his pouch down low). He was able to eat off a tray a little. Also make sure his water bottle is in a place where he can stand on the bottom of the cage and drink.

I'm sorry this happened. We are all praying for him. Did she give you any meds for him?
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 12:43 AM

See, I flipped out with Daddy because his tail kept looking darker, but it was just because the hair was growing in.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 01:01 AM

Well this part is not due to hair growing back in. I asked that. I think like stated before if i let it go he would have started to sm. There is a small spot that almost looks like dry skin but not i dont know how to explain it and that is what she was concerned about as well as the skin coloration.

She did not give me pain meds. She is new to gliders so she is learning. Should i ask for some? If so what and what does for a 94 gram glider.

Im really hoping that the tail will heal and taking the damaged part will not be necicary. I feel helpless right now cause he is very stressed. I put him in the pouch but he is stil going crazy. Im going to take the wheel out as well as the shelfs and lower the pouch. I will make sure the water bottles are at the bottom too.

Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 02:17 AM

Who is a good person to talk to about this? I need to know if there is anything i can be doing to the tail to help it have a chance. What can i expect if they do have to remove.

Just a little info. He is 94 grams healthy aside from this and has never done anything like this. His mate has 2 joeys in pouch. She is about 4 weeks along.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 02:41 AM

No one can tell you why he did this. We can give you a long list of reasons that gliders SM, but, sadly, we are not yet able to identify a SURE cause in many cases.

You will have to accept that you will probably never know why he started. The GOOD thing is that you caught it before it got really bad. Good for you! thumb

I have had a few tail amputations. If this does not get better, you will want to make sure that she amputates a few joints ABOVE where the necrosis is.

I agree, pain meds should be given. We can't give doses here, as we are not vets. But, I will PM you my vet's number. Your vet can call him and consult if she likes.

You are doing great. Hang in there. He will be fine in no time.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 03:17 AM

thanks a bunch Val. If they do have to amputate he will lose all the brown part and some of the grey. Is there any lasting affects on a glider that looses part of a tail?

What is the best pain med for this kind of pain?

Ill deff give my vet your vets number thanks so much. He still has not calmed down at all. He is still up trying to get the collar off. He wants to me and i get him out and he calms down for a few min then he goes crazy again. I have put blankets on the bottem of his cage cause he willnot go in the pouch. He can get into it but he just is not. Should i put him in a smaller cage? Im worried he will fall. I have already took out all shelves and his wheel but if he climbs up the cage onto hamiks he does not watch where he is going. I dont want to take him from his mate as she has joeys in pouch so should i move them both?
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 04:22 AM

Melissa, I am feeling your worry/stress/anguish. I'm going through my 4th glider having part of a tail amputated. (Mind you, I have 2 that have stumps like a HAMSTER so I can speak here. It took 3 surgeries for each of them to get their tails to a point where they'd heal!)

I'll address your concerns from the most recent post going backwards. Willy and Lilly have very little effect from being stumpy-tailed...granted their "flying" ability is somewhat limited, but they've found a new way to get around: they JUMP. They've also become 2 of the most loving "mama's babies" that I could ever ask for! mlove In the long run, any glider will be only as handicapped as you are mentally & emotionally toward them.

I have Magellan in a "hospital cage" which is smaller than his regular home and NO WHEEL at all. He could run in his Stealth Wheel if I were to put it in there, but....it's too easy for him to catch his e-collar in the track were he to start running at a good pace. He is alone in the cage: during supervised visitation, the other members of his family want to "help" him by picking at the bandage on his tail. (I fear that Hunni will do the same thing to Gizmo: her intentions are good, but she can cause serious damage if they're kept together. Putting their cages close together could keep Hunni's anxieties lower, but it needs to be done)

One thing I learned from this last go-around with tail injuries: Bandaging a tail can be a bit of a challenge. Go to your nearest farmer's supply or Co-Op and check out a product called VetWrap (it comes in some PRETTY COLORS) and is the coolest thing for those "difficult areas" to bandage. It doesn't pull hair out when you have to take it off, and a glider in an e-collar can't work it free.

Another cool trick: the pain meds can be put into MEALWORMS. That's another helpful tip to pass along to you.

If your vet needs yet another person to consult, have her call mine...like I said, we've been through 3 already & am in the middle of #4. Dr. Bill Kerley, 260/447-1558.

Prayers and best wishes for everything good that the new day can bring.


Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 05:01 AM

Gizmo is at the lets see if the tail will get worse or heal. Do I need to put him in a diff cage right now? I hate to do this to him and hunni. They have 2 jeoys in pouch. I know they come first but hunni is a stressful glider anyways i worry what it will do to her to loose gizmo. I can see taking him out if he does have to have surgery but now? If it is whats best for him then ill do it.

I work for a vet so i can get the vet wrap in fact i think i have some now. I will be asking about the pain meds tomorrow.
I will also pass along the number thanks so much.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 05:22 AM

Oh guys i dont know what to do! he is miserable. I have tried every dish and he wants to eat with his hands and cant and is getting frusterated. Im desperate. I know not to take the collar off but how can i let him torment himself like this. He is so mad he is crabing at the dogs thru the cage and lunging at them and he never does this! Please oh please tell me im doing the right thing. He is stressing hunni out with his thrashing around. I will have to get my joey cage out tomorrow and seperate them during the nights. I will keep him and her on me during the day mabey this will calm him. He runs right to me when he sees me coming to his cage and he will just sit in my arms for a bit then go crazy again. If i do pain meds will that help dope him up a bit and calm him? Im so upset right now. I dont like seeing him this way.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 05:33 AM

ok well i have to log off now and go to bed i have to work tomorrow. He will be going with me and the girls up front will keep and eye on him. I hate this so much. Im so affraid this will do him more harm in the stress department but what can u do its either that or SMing. We cought it right befor that point i think and if the tail does not die we will be good. I will post when i get home tomorrow. Thank you all for the info and support.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 12:26 PM

Melissa
No glider likes being in the e-collar. Some take days to calm down and accept it. But the alternative is much, much worse.

Unfortunately, when dealing with tails, an e-collar is very, very necessary.

You are doing the right thing. He will not like the e-collar, but you cannot let those pleading eyes and that crabby attitude convince you to do what you know is not right. Yes, it is stressful. But, in the e-collar, he is safe.

Hang in there.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 03:55 PM

Timmy has been in an ecollar most of the last 4+ weeks. I cut his mealies up and hand feed them to him (it was so hard watching him trying to grab it through the collar....) He is able to eat his PP diet with the collar on. I use the plastic lids from the baby food containers, work great! I also started giving him a little ensure, which he loves, for a little extra calcium. It is very hard, but believe me, the alternative is MUCH WORSE!! We are all praying for both of you. Hang in there. Tough love is always hard, but usually always necessary, as well.
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 04:24 PM

I'm so sorry I didn't see this before now... frown

It's NOT an easy thing ever to have a glider in an e-collar. But I'll echo Mary's comments: Magellan has been in one for 3 weeks now & he's coping. He's learned that he can't use his paws & has adjusted his eating habits accordingly.

I'll also echo Val's comments: The alternative is MUCH MUCH WORSE. Given a chance to get to his tail, he'd do a LOT of damage. I only wish we could communicate to gliders that this is a MUST DO thing for their own good... *sigh*

My prayers for you & Gizmo continue.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 10:55 PM

Gosh guys it is hard watching him. I got up this morning and he was hangning out his pouch sleeping. Im going to have to make a pouch just for this purpose. Im going to make it a wide pouch so it does not colaps in like a normal pouch would when they are in there. Not sure how to do it though. My vet contacted one of the numbers you guys gave me and got him on some pain meds. He would not take food from me so i think for feeding tonight i will take the collar off and sit and watch him while he at least eats something then put it back on. I have seen him drink.

I hate seeing him want to grab the food with his hands but not be able to. I had such a hard time last night. It is easyer today but not much. He went to work with me today and got lots of attn. Everyone could not belive i could get a e-collar so small. They thought it was cute.

The vet thinks there is only a 50/50 chance he will keep that part of the tail. But at least he has that much. Im just glad i listened and took him in.

Thanks guys so much.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 11:10 PM

Melissa, I know it is hard, but I am telling you, do not take it off! He will be even worse if you do and you risk not being able to get it back on. Keep offering food, cut up mealies and hold them for him. Get some Ensure, he can drink that. I am speaking from experience here. I wish I were closer, I would come over help. He will settle, but if you take it off, you are only going to make it harder on him.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 11:38 PM

What if he still refuses to eat from my hand. Getting the collar on him is actualy no prob with him. He sits still for me to put it on. I dont have mealies and i wish i did cause i know he would eat those. I have some wax worms should i give him a few of those even though they are such high fat? Mabey he would figure out with one that he can eat from my hands.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 11:44 PM

Yes, cut them in half, though, so he doesn't choke. I fed those at first, as they were easier for Timmy. I know it is hard, he has to adjust and taking it off and putting it on is not going to make this any easier on him. I know its hard, believe me!
Posted By: LSardou

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 11:45 PM

I don't see where offering him a few of the wax worms will hurt. I'd give it a try, maybe cut it in half (uggh) so that you can give him a couple of pieces at at time.
Is there a favorite lickey treat that he likes? Yogurt is always something that almost all gliders like. When I had my one glider in an e collar, I trimmed the area under the chin to allow for more flexibility. It seemed to have helped for eating and drinking.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 11:46 PM

You can take a hoop - like a crochet hoop or whatever they are called - plastic or metal hoop/ring and sew it into the top of a pouch - fold the pouch over at the top and hand stitch it. This will keep the pouch open.

I have a few. I'll try to get a picture for you in a bit.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/16/08 11:50 PM

His fav treat is the yoggies which im out of thanks to my son tant he ate the rest.

I can get some more this weekend. I will try to get some mealies. I will offer him a few waxies and see if he wil eat them.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 02:27 AM

Well i fed gizmo a couple waxworms and he did not know what to do. He kept pulling it out of my finger then trying to use his hands. I started holding tight and he finaly gave up and started eating them from my fingers. And good news i found a few yoggies stashed in the fridge lol. I gave him one. Im going to try my best to get him to take his food from me tonight at least some so i know he got some and see if he can manage the rest on his own.

That is a really good idea using the hoop. Ill go pick on up tomorrow and fix them up a pouch.

Im really hoping he will not need the tail amputated. We will see what she says on friday.

In the meantime collar, pain meds and lots of love for him. He had everyone fawning all over him at work.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 04:39 AM

I just fed dinner. I pulled gizmo out and had to hold him over the bowl i though might work. He did drink some hpw but was not interested in eating veggies from me. I put the hpw on a diff type plate and put him back in his cage. He was able to cram his face into it and get some hpw so if he wants to he can get to the fruit smoothy and veggies. Man was he a mess though lol. Im going to have to clean him in the mornings at this rate but im glad he is eating.

The tail really looks black guys and im so worried he will loose part of it. Dont get me wrong id rather that then him go into compleat SM and have more probs. He is our first glider and what really sparked my habit. We had planed on just having him but well you can see where that led lol. He is sucha good layed back boy. The only prob i have out of him is he is very male agressive but i hope that calms down when we nuter him.

If he does need part of his tail amputated do you think sense he will already be under and need a e-collar anyways i should get him nutered at the same time or wait? I was thinking at the same time. Id rather not put him under twice.
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 04:59 AM

hug2 Sweetie, believe me....I'm feeling your pain & his to the 9th degree. It's NO FUN to have a baby in an e-collar...but this is what HAS to be done & they DO adjust. I wish I could send you a video of Magellan eating a mealworm with his collar on: we start with me picking out the whitest ones & smaller ones in the box. I put it in front of his nose, he grabs it with his mouth & tilts his head back while he chews on his mealie. When he's done with it, he spits it out & leans forward for his next mealie....this process continues until he's had his "fill". When we're done, I take a q-tip & clean out the "remains" under his chin. He pretty much handles Yogies the same way: he bites them into 2-3 pieces & uses his tongue to lick up the parts until it's all gone.

The embroidery hoop is a WONDERFUL idea. You could even do the "no-sew" approach: see if you can follow my thoughts here...

Take a bowl that's the same diameter as your hoop & turn it upside down. Grab a big piece of fleece and lay it over the bowl, then put the hoop down & shape your fleece to the height of the bowl. Measure out about 3" from the edge of the hoop/bowl set-up. Cut around the outside (you'll have a HUGE circle of fleece)...then cut about 1/2" wide strips toward the center of the bowl-hoop. Remove the bowl & tie the strips around the embroidery hoop. Ta-da, you have a wide-mouthed fleece nest for your babies to snuggle in. Toss in a few 2" squares of fleece, and that'll make quite the sleeping set-up. (Oooooh how I wish my camera battery wasn't dead right now: I'd take a pic of Magellan's nest & upload it for you to show the "finished product")

Magellan has now made it for 48 hours without figuring out how to unwrap his tail with the VetWrap bandage. My vet has me using a piece of Adaptic underneath to help with healing...the bad part of THAT stuff is that it takes the stickiness out of ANY kind of regular medical tape that the drug stores sell tant That's what inspired me to get my roll of VetWrap out....and bandaging a wiggly glider's tail without help can be a bit of a challenge!

Stay positive! A 50-50 shot at keeping his tail intact is better than NO chance at all. But if the odds shift against you...I'll be here to give you all the moral support I can.
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 05:08 AM

You and I must've been writing at the same time...that and I was rather "long-winded" roflmao

If it's blackening that fast, you might NOT want to wait until Friday...frankly. Is there any chance that you can get him in TODAY (since it's officially Thursay now)? The longer you wait, the faster that necrotic tissue is going to spread...and that is NOT GOOD in any language.

And no, I do NOT recommend that you have him neutered at the same time while he's "under". His body is already concentrating on fighting one area of injury/invasion/damage. You do NOT want to create another area where his already-overworking immune system needs to fight.

I'm sorry, but that's my 2 cents worth.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 06:24 AM

That is what gizmo is doing with his yoggies. Then at the end he figured out that it is ok if mom holds it and he chews it but he still gobbles it down.

Does Magellen seem to be more "hold me mommy" sense the collar has been on? Gizmo is are second most bonded glider and is the bigest sweetheart. He is rather a explorer though. He would rather go play then be in your arms and with this collar he is sticking close to me.

I was thinking along the same lines as u on the pouch and that isa good idea. I was planing on tomorrow getting a pool ring and using the new sew method and make a deap wide open pouch. I plan on getting it done first thing in the morning.

My vet checked him about 6 pm yesterday(wed) and the blackness is not spreding but it has gotten darker then what it was. She was wanting to give it till friday to try to give it a chance. It is the bottem part that is the worse in coloring so we are hoping sense it is not all the way around the tail it has a better chance. But she feels the same way i do that if it is not any better by friday then it needs to come off asap to avoid any more probs. Untill then he will stay in the collar and im proud to say i did not give in to those big pleading eyes. I left the collar. He seems to have calmed down a bit and is not thrashing around. If he sees me he will run to the front of the cage with a bit of trip ups with the collar getting stuck on the bottom of the cage and just clings to the bars pleading with me to take him out which i promptly do. He is so far being very good about taking his meds. He opened his mouth and took it like a chap. The pain med is called Metacam and my vet says it does not have to bad of a taste.


I understand about the nutering and will hold off. Hunni has jeoys in pouch now and still has at least another month befor they come out and she seems to not let gizmo breed her right away so hopefully They will hold off untill i can get him nutered. There are a couple of reasons i wanted him nutered and the smallest is i cant track her linage. I know they are not related but i dont like not being able to track it. Bill has not wanted me to nuter gizmo(his glider)and they have had 2 sets of twins that have gone to non breeding homes. The biggest reason is hunni seems to not have enough milk for the first 2 weeks and the babies seem to be very small and the secnd set premi. I finaly made hubby relize it is not healthy for her to breed and not right to breed her not being able to track her linage. So in a nut shell i think gizmos health right now over rules that. Mabey he will heal well and i can get it done befor these joeys are weened. These joeys should be staying with mommy and daddy as a colony so i will have time to nuter him.


Should he need his tail amputated i know he will need to stay on pain meds but what about antibiotics? I want to cover all corners as to keep him healthy.

Thank you so much for being supportive. I know his case is not as bad as others by no means but it has been hard on me to see him this way as im sure it is hard on any mommy. hug2
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 12:07 PM

Get it done at the same time, since he will already be in a collar, otherwise, you will have to put one on him when he has the neuter done (since he has already gone after himself). He will be on meds already, so I would definitely do them both at once. JMHO. Not having to be put under a second time, do the meds, collar, etc, all again. Granted, I have not gone through an amputation, but I know I am glad I did Timmy's neuter at the same time. His body was already in 'healing mode', he was on the same meds he would need (oh, btw, you can only use Metacam for 3 days, so you will need something else. I recommend Buprenex) and well, the neuter will heal quickly and he won't even notice it is done.

Glad you left the collar off. Taking it off would have brought you both back to the beginning again (and he may not have been as willing to let you put it back on him, either!) Each day he will get better. I cut up small fleece 'napkins' to clean Timmy's face (very soft and take all the mess off and he doesn't seem to mind it at all!)

Good luck!
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 01:54 PM

If it were me, I would have them done at the same time as well. I am a HUGE advocate of limiting anesthesia use as much as possible.

Here is a link to a little information about anesthesia use in gliders:
Effects of Anesthesia

I think it would be in his best interest to limit anesthesia use and to go ahead and have both surgeries at the same time. Furthermore, even if the tail does not have to be amputated, I would go ahead and have him neutered now, so that you don't have to go back into the ecollar later.

While it is true that it will be hard on his little body to heal two areas at once, I can tell you from experience that it is possible. Also, one must consider the importance of mental/emotional health on healing. To go through this whole process again would only increase his stress.

I'm also vrey diligent in giving yogurt frequently during any stressful event.

And, yes, he should continue on antibiotics for several weeks after an amputation.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 05:46 PM

I will pick up some more yogurt today as mine went bad. I normaly just get plain. Can i get a flavor to treat him?

Ok I will talk to my vet about doing both at the same time. We go back in tomorrow and see what needs to be done.

I check him often and rearure him. He is stressed and depressed at the collar i think but when he sees me or hears my voice he purks up. His eyes are clear and ears are purky.

Im glad i did not take it of either. He has calmed down but still does not like it one bit. I think it is more frusteration then anything that he can not use his hands or sleep in the pouch but we will be fixing the the pouch prob so at least that will give him relife. In the mean time he has been sleeping on his hammik. Hopfully he will like this new pouch im making.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 06:07 PM

I just posted about Timmy, he is ALL HEALED! He had his tumor removed and was neutered at the same time and I am so happy we did it then, because after this, I would not have risked doing a neuter!! I'm glad you left it on. Each day will get easier for both of you!
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 06:08 PM

Melissa
You are doing great. Keep it up.

Yes, he can have flavored yogurt. In times of high stress (like now) Activia yogurt is best. My gliders like the mixed berry flavor.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/17/08 06:40 PM

Woohoo timmy is healed!!!! Is he able to come out of the wrap and collar?? Im so happy for you and timmy! U did great!


Thanks Val it has been hard not to give in but i know it is for the best. I have a bad feeling he will loose part of his tail. So i think we have a long rd ahead of us.

I will deff get hims some activia mixed berry.

What can i expect from amputation. He will loose the about 2 inches of his end which will take away all the brown fur. How long should he be away from his mate and stay in the collar?

Can i put the hospital cage in there big cage and hang her pouc on it right next to his or is it to much of a risk she can get to the tail thru the bars?
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 12:05 AM

Been a trying day. Gizmo's tail has gotten darker and more of a area. My vet dicided he needed to see a specalist. It has gotten worse so she gave me numbers of diff vets. All are closed till monday and our local suggi vet is not in till monday but i told them how importent this was and they got ahold of her. She called me and agreed to come in tomorrow morning to look at gizmo. She will be putting him on antibiotics right off. She will be doing the surgery and nutering him at the same time. She was actualy more then willing to talk my vet thur it but my vet dicided that with his case it is better for her to do the surgery so she gets the right care sense she has not had any time ot prepair and learn sense this happend so suddenly. My vet and the vet that is going to take over gizmos care is going to let my vet stand in and assist which im happy.

In the mean time my vet will continue to learn about treating gliders and when calypso needs to be nutered she will be ready. She knows the amputation and nutering part is not a prob for her it is the anastesia that she is uncertian of as she has never operated on such a small critter.

Gizmo is doing ok aside from everything. He is rubbing his skin raw where the collar is though and im a bit worried about that. Any advice on what i can do about that?
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 12:38 AM

Get some animax cream from your vet, put it on the spots a few times a day. That happened with Timmy, too. I'm glad you at least have a game plan. Prayers continue.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 12:40 AM

Thank you, Melissa. You guys will get there, too! I would suggest you keep his cage near your bed so you can keep an eye (and ear) out at night for him if you can. I would not do the cage in cage, I think it will be more frustrating for them and she may go after his tail. It isn't easy, but have faith you will get through it. We are all here to lean on...I know I did plenty of leaning these last 5 weeks!
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 12:41 AM

I wish I could somehow get a video of some of Magellan's antics: His most recent one is to "fly" off my shoulder to the floor when we're in the kitchen, then kinda "bunny hop" down the hallway to the master bedroom....past the 5 cats that co-habitate with us 2 humans & a couple reptiles. Once he gets through the doorway, he stops & waits for me to catch up with him & crawls up my arm. Then we go back into the kitchen and the cycle starts over again. When he wants his mealies, he's "momma's boy"...once he gets them, he's all OVER the place.

Not by a matter of choice (rather by necessity), Magellan visits the other members of his "family" only with supervised visitation by me. I've caught on 2 separate occasions somebody tried to chew at his tail...or at his face. So I don't suggest letting Gizmo stay inside the main cage. It's just too doggone risky.

I will agree with Val on adding yogurt to his diet. I've heard from a couple people that yogurt helps build the "good bacteria" in his system.

As far as pain meds go, I ask for Torb over Metacam. Chances are that he'll only need pain meds for 24 hours...but keep in mind that Metacam can cause SERIOUS damage to a glider's system if used for more than 72 hours. Ask your vet to "load up" the Torb in mealies or waxworms to make it easier to give pain meds. Personally I would request antibiotics to keep infection away while the tail is healing.

From there, it's just up to Mother Nature as to what happens afterwards. Gizmo isn't going to be any more "handicapped" than what you LET him be with a shorter tail. He may change on the outside a little, but who he is on the inside will remain the same.

I'll be anxious to read what the vet has to say tomorrow. hug2
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 12:55 AM

Just caught up with the "rubbing raw" part of your post. Is there a sharp corner somewhere causing this? If so, maybe a little extra moleskin in that spot will help? When I make a shotglass e-collar, there are NO raw plastic edges anywhere on the part against his neck & shoulders. I think the molefoam covered with moleskin prevents rubbing like you're talking about. If he's going to be in it for awhile, then "beefing" it up wherever it's rubbing will be helpful RIGHT NOW.

"baptism by fire" is NOT a fun way to learn all the ins & outs about these critters...especially from a veterinarian's standpoint. Be thankful that yours is open minded enough to LEARN about gliders...and even MORE thankful that she has someone nearby to HELP her learn!
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 01:29 AM

Timmy has an avian collar, which as a soft, padded edge, no rough edges, and he still got the sores. It can happen. The animax will help them to heal and will feel better.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 02:42 AM

Thanks pappy i will deff ask about the cream.

The collar is one of the ones made here. It has what looks thin black pad with white soft stuff over it. I think i got it from...gosh cant remember now. It is clear plastic with snaps. There are no exposed edges so i think it is cause he is trying so dang hard to get it off. He has managed a few time to get it off but mainly keeps it on.

That is too cute with magennan. I can picture it in my head.

He will be started on antibiotics tomorrow morning and is already on pain meds.

I work for a vet so i can get syrnges and put pain meds in worms if need be.

My vet that i work for is great. She really does want to learn to treat them but at the same time knows this needs a already glider vet. She is thinking about his health. Hopfully she will get to assist during the surgery.

She is a very good vet and i have much respect for her.

I will update you as soon as i get back from the vets tomorrow. Would it not be great if i went there and the vet said oh it is much better then you thought and i think given time it will heal?

There are no open sores on his tail. Just missing fur and the discoloration. I think cause of of posting about it even though i really didnt think it was more then stress got some fast advise and he was able to get into a collar befor he could do any real damage. But i am also not going to be surprised if he does need surgery as the color does not look good at all.

Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 08:01 PM

Ok just got back from town. Gizmo will have part of his tail amputated on wed 11 am. He has nerve damage and a possable fracture. She says she does not think he has infection but she put him on baytral(sp?) just in case. My vet is planing on going and watching the procedure which is great. Gizmo is doing ok. He is much happier now that i have his new pouch done. He is adusting to his collar although he still does not like it. He is drinking and eating.

What can i expect the day of the surgery. I know he will be out of it a bit. He will be on pain meds and antibiotics. How long after the surgery should i keep him on pain meds. He for now does not act like it is big pain. In fact when u touch it he is not bothered at all. Im wondering if he has suffered such bad nerve damage that it is numb. Either way though he will stay on pain meds just in case.

If you guys can give me advice on anything you can think of that will help id realy be greatfull. I want to do anything possable to make it easyer on him.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/18/08 10:22 PM

Although I never had an glider have a tail amputated, I know with Timmy, he was pretty aggitated. Make sure you have a small carrier to bring him in and bring him home in (I think it is safer then in a cage while they are coming out of the anesthesia). He will (should) have his collar on before he awakes and they should have already given him injectible pain meds. Make sure they give you Buprenex (or Butorphanol) for pain and I would venture anywhere from 3-5 days for the pain meds. No less than 14 days on the antibiotics, although they may want to do 21 days. If you feed HPW, make a little extra that is a little more on the watery side (you can add a little extra apple juice) so he can eat easier. You may even want to get one of those bird feeders that look like a tube with a plastic 'spout' on the bottom that he can lick out of but not get his whole face in like he would with a dish. You can get them at Walmart. I would suggest a small hospital cage, with every thing near/on the bottom. No wheel.

Sending prayers out for both of you. It is good he is on the baytril. Most likely that is what he will also go home on. Good luck!!!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/19/08 01:16 AM

I have acarrier and a hospital cage. I will make sure they put the collar on before he wakes up.

That is a great idea about the bird feeder. I do feed HPW so that will work great!

Thanks so much
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/19/08 02:21 AM

I feared that this was going to be the outcome in the end...I'm sorry to hear this is going to happen. What happened to create all this will probably be a mystery forever. Checking everything for POSSIBLE contributing factors is all that can be done at this point.

With that having been said, here's what I've encountered with my ordeals on tail amputations:

If you can go along to greet him after the procedure is done, it will be beneficial. If not...then request that one of the vets wrap him up in a piece of fleece before he wakes up, keeping your fingers covered best that you can. What Val has said about them waking up violently is true: They "startle" awake & are very frightened at even the things they love (that's you). I'd suggest that you ask the vet to put the e-collar on before he wakes up just to keep him from biting his new surgery. (If it had been feasible, the e-collar should have stayed on him before he was completely asleep...Magellan actuallly attacked his wounded tail as well! shock )

The antibiotics is a good idea to keep infection away, despite no obvious injuries on the outside. I'm using a bandage of Adaptic with Vet Wrap to cover it. That seems to be the best working combination that doesn't cost more fur being pulled off when bandage changing time comes. I'll furnish more details to you privately.

Magellan only "needed" 2 doses of pain meds post-op. After the first 24 hours, he improved so much that I didn't have to push the issue. He's been in a hospital cage for 3 weeks now, and there's no wheel in there. His appetite is TERRIFIC and I've been feeding him pureed mixed veggies, grated fruits & his BML in a Yogies lid. To my surprise, he can maneuver his collared face so that he can eat. The food doesn't end up smeared on the floor of his cage, and I let him out for exercise at least twice daily.

The end of his tail has developed a little "build-up" of a knob already. (My other 2 nearly tail-less babies and my half-tailed "child" all have this as well.) The fur has grown back--mostly--and they act just like any other glider...they just don't glide as much, that's all.

I wish I knew where in Kentucky you call home...I'd almost be inspired to take a "road rest" if you're anywhere on I-65, since I'm heading down that highway on Tuesday. A visual on Magellan is worth a mile-long post.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/19/08 02:36 AM

I have checked his cage over and i can see nothing that would have caused it. There was a day when i was gone that he was being played with and he dicided to take off and run behind the entertainment center. Im not sure if he did it then but hubby said he did nt think he hurt himself but as we know they can hide it so well.

I will ask that they get the collar on before he wakes up. I wish i could be there. It is not the vet i work for so i dont think they will let me.

I have vet wrap so i will wrap his tail. How often do we change the wrap?

Im worried how long he will have to be away from hunni. she has 2 jeoys in pouch. I think he may make it back befor they come oop or shorlty after but im not sure.

Im in Bowling Green right along 1-65
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/19/08 02:56 AM

I've answered the MOST IMPORTANT question via PM...

I hear your worry...I'm doing the same thing about whether or not Magellan will be welcomed back into the colony when this is all said & done. But the bottom line is: What has to be, will be. Period. Mother Nature is as bad as a glider about being able to read time (by way of clocks OR calendars): when the healing is complete, they'll be able to be together again. I'm staying optimistic that it'll be before the babies come OOP.

SandSMammas and I will be touring down I-65 on Tuesday...we'll be ready for a break by Bowling Green (I have several reasons to wander down to Tennessee about 3-4 times a year---4 of my fuzzy babies live there, along with several friends) & would love to say howdy for just a LITTLE BIT. If we can work it out going down, GREAT. If not, then maybe we can catch you on the northbound side.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/19/08 03:17 AM

I got your PM ty. I think gizmo will be welcomed back. I worry about how it will affect them both though. She gets depressed being alone. And with having joeys in pouch i worry even more. I will just have to keep her one me as well as him in diff pouches. I hope he can go back in befor babies come oop but we will see.

Id love a visit!! Im not that far from one of the EX and is not hard to find me. If we cant do it on the way down let me know about the way up. either way if u go 65 u go right by me. You can meet all my fuzz buts and they way it is looking mabey 2 newly oop joeys! Carmella is about ready to pop and i mean literly. Im actualy worried on how big the babies are. She cant even keep her pouch closed. It is normaly opened the size of a dime. I saw one baby hanging oop tonight.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/19/08 03:41 AM

I just gave gizmo some mixed berry activia yogurt and man did he like it!!! Hunni did as well. I treated everyone with some tonight as we are still out of mealies.

Posted By: angelic4296

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/19/08 10:47 AM

Melissa good luck with him, I'll be thinking of you and him on Wednesday and say a little prayer...I'm sure everything will turn out fine...make sure you take pics of those babies when Carmella DOES pop! I'd really try hard to make arrangements for that visit - minkasmom is awesome and she'll be able to ease some of that UNeasiness in person...I've never met her personally (sorry minkasmom to be talking about you as if you're not going to read it lol), but she's given me advice before and she knows her stuff...good luck! PM me if you need anything, I've never dealt with tail amputation (our big issue with MY Gizmo was seizures), but even if you need to vent or just worry out loud, I'm here...
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/20/08 03:07 AM

Thanks a bunch angelic. I look forward to meeting minkasmom! She has been a great help as well as others who have responded.

Im worried about gizmo on surgery day. I know exotics can have probs with anastesea and i just cant help but worry. I know he will be in good hands plus my vet will be there. I may just take you up on the offer to worry out loud hug2

Guess what???!!! I saw babies hangen oop today!! Gosh they have to be oop any day now if they arnt already. I cant ketch them detatched but if they are not know they will be anyday now. Cant wait!!!
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/20/08 09:27 PM

Vent away if need be!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/21/08 02:00 AM

Well just a update about gizmo. He is finaly getting used to the e-collar or as used to it as a glider can be. He is really happy with the pouch i made. He is able to get into it and sleep with plenty of room to spare. I just made a really big no sew pouch and tied the opening around a pool ring. He can get right down in it. He is learning to eat with the collar on but man is he dirty. I had to take the collar off at the vets for her to see the wound the collar has made on his neck and i let him keep it off while i was talking to the vet and watching him at the same time. He went right to work grooming himself. I swear i thought he was going to have a heart attack over how dirty he was!

Im really dreading Wed. So far the tail is no better but no worse. I know it is for the best and i just thank god i got him in the collar in time before he could really do damage to the actual skin. I just cant belive how bad it got. It went from me thinking he was just stressed and pulling the hair out to wow there is something really wrong here. Iv just been thinking wow i cant belive it happend to me. I think when you have healthy happy gliders you tend to forget how bad things can get fast. I have been putting of giving my list for my emg medical kit to my boss and this has hit me in the tush that i really need to get on the ball. I had the e-collars on hand thank god.

Gizmo is our first glider and has always been sweet. I have tought him to sit at the door of his cage and when i tap my shoulder he jumps to me. He is so sweet. He is hyper though and after he greets you he tends to want to run off. Well now that he has the collar on he is sticking to us like glue. It is so sad to see him start to run and get the collar hung up and he just looks at you like a 4 yr old that has been told to sit in the corner. He trys to leap to you but he cant judge his landing. He is geting spoiled but i think he would rather the collar come off. I have yet to tell him he has to stay in it till his tail heals and boy will that upset him.

Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/22/08 07:41 PM

I got to meet minkasmom and her friend Samantha today!!! They are the sewwtest people and showed me how to make a shot glass collar and they also made one for him. I think he will be much happier in this then the sat collar. Im so happy to have gotten to meet them!

Gizmo is still doing ok. Tail is not getting worse but not any better. He will go in tomorrow at 11. Im very scared for him. Im going to be a wreck by the time he goes thru the surgery.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/22/08 07:46 PM

Prayers surround Gizmo, Melissa! I know you are scared (and I don't blame you) but remember he is good hands and they know what they are doing. Please let us know as soon as you can.

I'm glad you got to hook up with them today! I'm also happy to hear he is adjusting to 'life in a lampshade' as we call it around here....lol
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/22/08 08:03 PM

ty for the prayers. I will let you know as soon as i get home how he is doing. I am going to ask if i can be there.

They are great people and i was so glad to meet them!!!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/23/08 10:22 PM

Well i have gizmo home with me now. He had his nuter and tail amputation. All went well with the surgery. They said as soon as he woke up even in the e-collar he got to his tail and started chewing. They had it wraped in vet wrap with extra hanging off his tail. This vet wrap has bitter apple like stuff built in and it does not taste good so he let it go and has not messed with it sense. They left so much at the end so that if he did get it up past the collar he would only get the vet wrap and not his tail. He is in his hospital cage. Im glad the surgery went well and it is iver now the healing has to start. He is on pain meds for today and 2 days after and he has been on baytril for a week and has 2 more weeks of it.

Im going to keep a watchfull eye on him today and thru the night. Little bugger slipped his ecollar last night but did not damage to his tail but i need to make sure he can not do that again.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/23/08 11:20 PM

ok not even home a hr and he got the vet wrap off his tail with the e collar! I re wrapped it and then wrapped the rest of the tail with moe vet wrap so he would have a harder time getting it off. He is trying so hard to get to his tail. I have been watching and so far he can get it up under him but i switched to the shot glass collar and he cant bite it. He is stressing so much.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/23/08 11:33 PM

Melissa, I had no idea you and Gizmo were going through so much! hug2
I'll be keeping you both in my prayers!
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/23/08 11:37 PM

I have never been through a tail amp, but imagine it is hard because even with that collar, the tail is so long. Sending prayers out he will settle. I know with Timmy he was frantic at first, but did settle. Hoping it will be the same with Giz.
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 01:52 AM

SIGH He has managed to slip out of the shotglass collar and i had it tight. I was so afraid to look. He did not get the bandage off and did not go for his nuter sight yet but what if he keeps getting his collar off. Should i wrap his tummy just in case so he at least has to go thru the wrap?
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 02:51 AM

im going to show some pics. The first is when i noticed it. The skin is a grey with a bit of buising. The second is a few days later and the skin has turned black. The third is now. If u notice he has green and blue vet wrap on. The green u see there is no tail it is left longer so if he does get to it he will be getting to vet wrap only. A bit of the blue is also no tail under. They took about 2 - 2.5 inches off his tail. The part of the tail that is black in standard greys and brown in cinnis is all gone plue some of the grey part.

He is beinga butt which i can understand. I just syring fed him his dinner and some water. He is now sitting on my shoulder. It is the only way to calm him. He is in so much pain he actualy bit me. He has never bit me. I had to really get the collar tight to make it to where he cant get it off. I am keeping an eye on his nose to make sure it is not too tight but if i loosen it up at all he will be able to get it off. I think im in for a long night. I have a shirt that has a pouch that i will wear during the day and keep him in that. Im not going to let him and hunni have visitation for a few days till he is feeling better. I think he will be sleeping next to me tonight.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/ssdreamsicles4/PICT0252.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/ssdreamsicles4/PICT0254.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/ssdreamsicles4/PICT0266.jpg
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 05:30 PM

Ok so it was a very long night. Gizmo sat on my chest most of the time. He seems to have calmed down alot so i hope that means the pain level is down. He will ride in my pouch shirt for the days so i can watch him all the time. When he is feeling better ill let hunni in for some visitations so i can watch them closely. She was barking for him last night and he responded so thats good.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 05:38 PM

Hopefully he is beginning to adjust. It is a lot for them to go through and it is unnatural for them to have all this on them. They don't understand it is to help them. Went through it with Timmy. Hate to keep saying 'it will get better' but it will a little each day. Prayers continue for you both!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 09:20 PM

He is so depressed. I hate seeing him this way. I know it is for his own good but it breaks my heart. I tried to give him a silk worm and he would not eat it. Im going to syrnge feed him some hpw here in a bit. Hubby is going to pick up some gateraid for me. He will have his bottle of water in his cage but im going to give him some gateraid to help him out a bit. Ill keep you updated on how he does. How long till he is acting at all like his old self? I know he will be mopy for a bit but i am concerned how mopy he is. His nose color is good and he is taking the food from the syringe.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 10:03 PM

Took Timmy about 10 days or so (course he was to have his sutures out at 14 days, and one day shy is when he chewed up his chest, so then we got to start all over again!) I know your pain all too well. It is hard, but keep your focus on him healing. If you can get any food into him (Timmy lived solely on cut up mealies and waxies and Ensure and some yogurt, which I switched around, not both at once), than try to keep telling yourself 'this too shall pass'. Each day he gets through is one less day he has to go through (I kept telling myself that!) Hang in there, he will heal and you will get through this together!!! I'm here if you need me!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 10:56 PM

He has 2 stitches in his tail that are supp to desalve but she said if they are still there in a week i can remove them. I was so shocked when he got out of the e collar and got the wrapping off his tail. I have had to take everything out of his cage but the water bottle and a hammik. He was using the pouch to get the collar off. I have had him in my shirt pouch on and off thru the day. He is not wanting to eat the silk worms and i wish i could get him some mealies. I found one pet store here that has them 12 for 99 cents and they are so tiny i doubt he will touch them. I am syringe feding him pureayed veggies, fruit smoothy, yogurt and some Hpw.

I belive he has 2 stitches in his nuter site as they did palm off.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 11:10 PM

Can you get waxworms at the store near you? If so, buy them, and cut them in half (he won't have to hold them that way but also won't choke on them). Put them in a lid (I use lids off the baby food containers, I save them). Works perfect and it is just the right size. He could use the extra protein and fat right now (will help him heal and give him energy). I know cutting the worms is gross, but if it works, you gotta do what ya gotta do!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 11:16 PM

No i have to order some. I just ran out so i need to get some more. He will eat those with no prob and i dont mind cutting them up lol. I actualy hold them for him and he bites it in half and then i give him the other half when he is done. He is still chowing down on yoggies and i know it should not be a everyday thing but i have been giving him a few a couple times a day. Im going to try to go on line and find some place that will ship them to me. He really misses his mealies.

You know i know he is hurting but i just dont like his depressedness. Im sure he will purk up a bit in a few days but i hate seeing him this way. He will sit on my shoulder and try to barry his head in my neck but the cone gets in the way. I have just been loving on him as much as i can in hopes of making him feel better. He is such a sweetheart.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/24/08 11:37 PM

Timmy did (and still does) that (trying to bury his head). That is how the headstand sleeping position started, him just trying to bury his face, since he couldn't curl up. It is so hard to see them this way and have no way to make them understand. You feel like 'you are doing this to them'. Just try to give him as much attention as you can. You will be closer than you ever were when this is finished and he is healed. As down as he is, he does know you are trying to help him. Put yourself in his place, and esp. with not understanding.....you can see where he is coming from. But it must be done and he will be ok. Grubco has waxies in. It cost me 12.00 for 500 plus shipping (I just got 5000 large mealies, plus 500 waxies, cost me about 62.00 with delivery. 30.00 of it was for delivery!) Double check with your store, they may be getting some in sooner then they could be delivered. Wish you were closer, I'd gladly give you some to tide you over!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/25/08 12:01 AM

I do feel a bit closer to him or rather feel like he is showing me more love. He is a loving glider anyways.

U are sweet! The prob with grubco is the last time i ordered in the summer they all came dead and there is no garentee. Im not even sure with the shortage that they would ship to me.
Posted By: LSardou

Pulling hair out - Part 2 - 07/25/08 12:47 AM

See Part 1 here
Posted By: LSardou

Re: pulling hair out? - 07/25/08 12:49 AM

See Part 2 here
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: Pulling hair out - Part 2 - 07/29/08 06:16 PM

Sorry i have not been on to update. I had a busy weekend.

Gizmo is doing well. He is still a bit depressed over wearing the collar and not being with hunni but i try to make up for that as much as i can. His nuter site and tail amputatin is healing well. He is off his pain meds but still on the antibiotics. I let him out of his collar once at night(I do not recomend this but gizmo is very bonded to me and lets me put it back on when its time)I sit right by the cage and allow him to eat and groom himself then after about 30 min of him doing this and me petting him i put it back on him. ever couple of days i have been wiping him down with a warm wet cloth as i cant belive how dirty he gets. When he is allowed to groom i always have my hand in the cage to stop any advances to his nuter site but so far he has left it alone and consentrated on other parts.

I tried to do a supervised visitation with hunni and him a day after the surgery to see if she could calm him down but she wanted to groom his nuter so i had to take her out. I said i would not let them back together for paly time till his nuter healed but i felt so bad for them that last night while he was having his time out of his collar i let her in his cage. I sat there for a hr just watching in aww there anticks. They ran and played and cuddled. He went right to work marking her in case she had forgotten she was his. After about a hr i took hunni back to her cage and put his collar back on. He seemed happy at this short visit. I will not be able to put them back untill he is fully healed in his tail. I am a bit worried about this as i saw a tail peeking out of hunni's pouch. It was dark so i dont think she has but mabey 2 weeks before they come oop. They are tiny again so i will have to supp feed them and i guess be daddy for gizmo. I am glad he finaly got the nuter as i could not bare for hunni to have joeys this small again. At least one of these joeys mabey both will be staying with mommy and daddy as a colony.

Gizmo has adjusted to sleeping on the hammik. He is not happy about it but it must be done as he trys to use the pouch as a way to get the collar off.

His neck area where the collar had rubbed him raw is healing. It has no fur but it is healed. I put more mole skin on the collar to help pad it a bit.

Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Pulling hair out - Part 2 - 07/29/08 07:55 PM

Awwww, I am glad they got some lovin' time together. It helps them to know their partner is still there! He sounds like he is doing well. Each day will get easier. Hang in there......
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: Pulling hair out - Part 2 - 07/29/08 08:45 PM

Yea they were so happy but at the end i think hunni was trying to get away from his over baringness lol. He would not stop holding her down and marking her lol. He was even crawling on her back.

How long till he stops the marking? How long till his glands dry up and the bald spots go away?

He is doing better and each day does get easyer.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Pulling hair out - Part 2 - 07/29/08 09:42 PM

Well, mine took about a month usually, but Timmy was neutered 7+ weeks ago and his bald spot is still good sized and he was rubbing Gidget like crazy last night for their little visit...lol
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: Pulling hair out - Part 2 - 07/30/08 12:13 AM

lol thats what gizmo was going. Poor hunni was just looking at me like i was crazy to have put her in his cage!!
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