GliderCENTRAL

Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!!

Posted By: SarahW

Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/26/05 06:54 AM

last night when I went to feed the gliders, I noticed Joey was cleaning his scrotum (pom-pon) a lot. When I put down the food he was distracted and stopped. This morning I got up and heard the sneezing/cleaning sounds. Joey had been kicked out of the pouch and was really cleaning his penis, which was fully out. It had tiny blood spots on it. He wasn't attacking himself or making the SM noise, but he wouldn't leave himself alone. I had a tough time tracking down a vet with everything closed for Thanksgiving, but we were able to get an appointment at Stoneridge Animal Hospital/Exotic Pet Clinic in Edmond. We tried to get the e-collar on him, but didn't realize how tight it had to be and he kept getting out. Thank goodness we had them pre-made though, because I was nervous and having to make them would have been a disaster. My boyfriend was in town and held him the whole drive (40 minutes) so he couldn't hurt himself.

Got to the vet and he thinks we have a UTI on our hands. The vet made an ecollar out of blank x-ray film. Joey made the absolute worst screaming noise the first 20 minutes it was on him. He HATES it. He tires himself out trying to get it off and then stares at me with such sadness and hate. I feel like the worst owner... The e-collar the vet put on is huge so he can't curl up and get his penis over the rim. But it hampers his climbing and he can't run on the wheel without tripping. I would have left the wheel in the cage but he keeps trying to hide behind it and getting the collar stuck with his head bent too far back.

Joey is getting two drugs: Metacam (.025mL twice a day for 10 days) to control swelling and pain, and Clavamox (=augmentin or amoxicillin, .1mL once-twice a day for ten days) for the infection. I also apply KY jelly every couple hours, but so far it has stayed wet.

The penis looks healthier and less bloody, but I am still really worried because it won't go back in. The doctor will call back tomorrow and Monday, and we are to see how it goes for the next couple days. The doctor hopes the antibiotic improves things by then, but if things get worse, the doctor warned me that amputation of the forks may be the way we have to go...

I'm so worried about Joey! Angie was great on the phone this afternoon helping me to calm down and telling me what to do (great tips about e-collars, feeding). But I'm still nervous. The collar seems to be on really well, but he isn't settling down about it. And worst of all, his penis has not retracted yet! How long does that usually take??? It is all the way out - I can see the forks come together and the base. It's not so distended that his rectum is prolapsed, so that's good, but I'm still really worried. AngieH suggested Preparation H for the penis, and I'll ask the vet what he thinks tomorrow when he calls.

Any advice or comments or thoughts? Similar stories or ideas about what to expect? I'm really worried... Please feel free to post here or to email me (or both!) at []swerning@ou.edu.[/]

Thanks so much in advance!!!
Sarah
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/26/05 07:14 AM

The penis needs to stay moist. Does it look dry? I would and a petroleum jelly to it to keep it moist, and it might help him retract. Are the forks enlarged?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/26/05 07:23 AM

The vet recommended the KY jelly and last I talked to Sarah is was not dry. I am praying for a good update, please give him a kiss from me. He is such a sweet boy! He will hate the e-collar they all do, some fight it longer than others but it saves their lives, but I swear its the hardest thing to see them in one.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Angie
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/26/05 07:56 AM

The penis so far has been moist. I have Vaseline and Preparation H on standby just in case. I have added the KY every three or four hours as a precaution even though it has not looked dry yet. The last time, he didn't seem to mind (the first few times it annoyed him greatly).

The forks don't look swollen, and the color seems to be getting back to normal. But it is worrying me that he won't retract it. I don't know how long this normally lasts... at least after talking to Angie I felt better about the e-collar. It seems so cruel to put him through this, but I figure it's better to have a glider that's mad at me than a glider who SM's. I think we caught this just in time... it could have been so much worse.

Perhaps he is keping it out because it still irritates him? I am praying that after the antibiotics kick in that the UTI goes away and he will feel better and pull it in on his own. The lengths are so inconsistent online... a couple hours for some gliders and a couple weeks for other. It's so scary, not knowing what to expect, not knowing how long we'll be waiting... I worry so much for the little guy. He is so sweet and for him to be in pain makes me so sad and scared for him.

Thanks again, Angie, for all your advice!!!
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/26/05 02:48 PM

Well, overnight I don't notice any improvement. The penis is still wet but is reddish. Joey refuses to take solid food from me (even mealies!), but he eats baby food from a spoon and Ensure, and he drinks from his water bottle on his own. I had out fruits for him last night but I don't think he ate any (although he was able to knock some out of the cage). He has gotten maybe an hour or so of sleep since yesterday morning when I found his penis prolapsed, and shows no sign of tiring out.

Painkillers had little effect this morning so far. He is like a crazed glider... only two things on his mind. First and foremost is getting the e-collar off, and second is getting at his penis. He rolls up in a ball and tries to bend his hind end around the collar. If the collar touches his penis he will lick and lick at the e-collar until he realizes what's up. Then he goes back to trying to get the collar off.

He is dragging the collar against the cage walls and running it into things so he can brace it and get his legs up on it to try to pull it off. Thank goodness the vet put it on so well. I worry so much about what would happen if he pulls it off.

To compound the issue, without Joey around, the girls won't sleep in the same pouch with his pal Meeko. I have noticed this behavior in the past (Meeko is more aggressive and the girls don't put up with him if Joey isn't there). What if something happens to Joey??? What will happen to Meeko if the girls won't let him be with them???

This is such a stressful time. My boyfriend is in town from San Francisco and I haven't seen him for two months. He leaves early early tomorrow and I will have spent two days with a sick glider and one with him. My boyfriend is very understanding, but I feel guilty about ignoring him for Joey, and when I am able to leave Joey's side I feel guilty about ignoring him (even if I know he is asleep). All in all this has not been a fun weekend so far. Added to that I have exams and the GRE coming up and will have to find time to study and some way to get my mind off everything to work on that stuff.

I hear barking; off to check on gliders... Any kind words or suggestions would be appreciated. Post here or email me at []swerning@ou.edu[/], and AIM is swerni1. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/26/05 03:58 PM

It will get better.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/26/05 04:26 PM

I am keeping you in my prayers, I know how hard it is to care for a ill glider. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> I am glad your boyfriend is so understanding and kind, this is shows what kind of charater he has and that means alot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/agree.gif" alt="" /> I can say that the antiboitics should be working soon, and it will improve. You will have to watch him carefully, even after he is well as sometimes this may continue even after they have healed. No one knows why, self mutilation is a confussing condition. I now have 6 recovered self mutilators and not one has repeated the self mutliation, but I keep a close eye on them, all were rescues and were or had been self mutilating when they came here. I am not letting myself think of what if's, but only positive thoughts at this time. If something would happen to Joey, we can cross that bridge later. If and when Joey calms down, and he will, take some time to rest. I am here if you need me for anything! And <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" /> for taking such good care of Joey and Meeko, you are a great mom to them.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Angie
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/27/05 01:48 AM

Update - It's 6:45pm. Joey slept most of the day but got up early. He is spending more time trying to get at his penis to groom it than he is spending trying to get out of the e-collar. He is cleary unhappy. He took his meds ok, but won't eat much from me. His penis is still prolapsed but it is still moist. Put some KY on it and he calmed down a little bit. Vet hasn't called back yet.
Posted By: mary h

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/27/05 04:49 AM

Sarah...
After talking with you...I came and read the thread. DO NOT let the vet amputate any part of the penis unless... it turns black and then...only the black part. If there is any swelling of the penis or the base of it...the Prep.H plus
cort. will take care of that. Solve the problem causing the
prolapse and it will retract on it's on. Please...call me back before you let the vet do anything major. We want very much to help that little boy regain his normal life with out
regrets.
Mary
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/27/05 01:15 PM

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" /> Mary
Sarah, how is he doing today? Have you tried the Preperation H yet? I agree with Mary, a amputation should be a last resort. I am praying the antibiotics are kicking in by now and he is doing better.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Angie
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/27/05 01:55 PM

Joey is doing about the same, I think. He is not spending so much time trying to get out of the e-collar, but he spends a lot of time trying to groom himself, especially his penis. I feel so bad; he hasn't been able to groom himself since the e-collar went on. His legs and penis have a lot of KY jelly on them and his tail is dirty too from hitting his food as he goes around the cage. With low-lying dishes and bird feeders, I imagine that's bound to happen though. He still won't take mealworms or anything but ensure and baby food from me. I have some fruit in a bird feeder in his cage and the pile is smaller this morning. I hope he ate some in addition to knocking it out of the cage. The penis is still prolapsed. I talked with MaryH and CharlieH last night and they offered some good advice. I will try the Preparation H this afternoon. Hopefully this fixes itself soon. I saw that his poop is getting runny and sticking a little to the back of his penis when he goes. I try to keep him clean as I can see it aggravates him. This morning I had to pull some black lint/fur off of the penis (very carefully, of course). I had seen a black spot and was worried after talking with MaryH, but thank goodness it was just lint. The penis is still red and moist, which Mary said was a good thing, so I am trying to be thankful for little things. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.

Sarah
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/27/05 09:16 PM

Blesss your heart!
Sorry you and your little boy are having to go through this. The very first baby I had did this, and I wasn't a member here yet. So not to mention not much support. I just took him to a vet that specialized in exotics but only birds and wild animals, not suger gliders and they said we caught it too late, he got dehydrated and died, I stayed up many nights for him and if only I had the knowledge that you all do. Since then I have become a member of GC (best thing) and found a wonderful vet that actually has pet Sugar Gliders and I sit and wish sometimes that I could turn the time clock back, but enough of that....many hugs your way!
Hang in there, you are doing what is best for him.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/28/05 06:30 AM

Well it finally looks like things may be getting better for Joey (hope hope hope!). I went to put on Preparation H (with Cortisone) and noticed that the penis had retracted a little bit. I put the Prep H on the base of the penis below the fork and the penis retracted a little more in just a couple minutes! It looks like there are still about 2/3 to 3/4 of the forks (no base!) still out, but this is about 1/2 to 2/3 of the original length of the penis that was prolapsed. So we can breathe a cautionary sigh of relief that things might get better soon.

Almost immediately after I got the Prep H on, I watched Joey urinate. It must have been really painful. He squirmed and squirmed trying to get at his groin. I don't think the UTI is done annoying him yet, but I am hopeful that it is making its last stand. I can't let him out of the e-collar until it doesn't hurt him to pee.

One difficulty with this is that the KY traps loose bits of fur and feces onto the penis. So I have to hold him and get the everything off the penis so it can retract properly and so it won't dry out. This is uncomfortable for Joey (he really doesn't like when I do it) but it seems like he is getting used to the whole ordeal. I pause frequently to tell him it will be ok, and when I go "poor Joey, it's ok" he stops squirming to look at me.

MaryH or CharlieH: tomorrow, should I put the Prep H on the penis if only parts of the forks are exposed?

Thanks to all who have offered advice and assistance!!!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/28/05 06:36 AM

Sarah, yes, the Clavamox is the equivalent of augmentin, and if he's still trying to mess with it, it's still bothering him. You may want to ask the vet about a valium suspension, which not only works on pain, but also is anti anxiety, to help calm him down. It's what we used with Riker when he SMed. As long as he is IN the collar, you can also try a bit of neosporin + pain on it..DO NOT allow him to lick it tho, as it will numb his tongue, and he could bite or chew on it without knowing it.

And I want to second what Mary has said...ONLY amputate anything if it has turned black (meaning the tissue is necrotic, or dead), and ONLY the black part. I may have missed it, also, but how old is he, and is he unneutered? SOMETIMES this can be aggravated by the onset of puberty in a male, and the damage can be caused simply because they won't stop playing with it, injure it, and a viscious cycle commences into SM. Neutering (WITH removal of the pom in the case of an SM glider) could help the problem also, since his interest in it will go away, also..it's what I had to do with Riker when he wouldn't stop even after the infection was cleared..but after neutering, that was it, and he has been collar free since he healed after surgery. I couldn't take the collar off until all traces of scab, etc. were gone, but once they were, he acted like none of it ever happened. Something to think about, and maybe discuss with the vet.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/28/05 06:42 AM

Joey is about 2 years old and he is neutered. I think it is more the discomfort of the UTI and over-grooming the penis because of that, rather than actual SM. I don't want it to develop further and cross the line into SM territory, so I won't let him out of the collar until I'm sure things are better.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/28/05 06:47 AM

Oh! I almost forgot... I talked with MaryH and CharlieH today and they recommended I let Joey see one of my sweet girls because he is clearly lonely (he spends a bit of time staring through the bars at the big cage). I put Sugar in the cage with him (under supervision, of course) and he was really happy to see her. He tried to get into the pouch with her. She ok but she wasn't so receptive to him. I think she is wary of the collar and the fact that since he hasn't been able to groom, he probably smells a little different. I think I will try this again tomorrow, or perhaps some tent time with Sugar or Spice and Joey.

Your heart really goes out to these little guys. They have no idea what's going on and probably are terrified most of the time they have the collar on.
Posted By: Charlie H

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/28/05 12:07 PM

I sent you a PM but will also post here. If the penis has withdrawn except for the tips discontinue the use of the Prepration H. It has done it's job by causing the blood to receed in the shaft. Keep up the antibiotics and pain med as prescribed.

Don't get too confident though because the penis has withdrawn. It still takes several days for the irritation to clear up because it is internal and the urine will slow healing. Painful as it is for Joey and you keep the ecollar on until he can urinate without pain. Also continue to keep the forks lubricated with the KY or Vaseline. These things take time.
Charlie H
Posted By: Lucy

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/28/05 01:55 PM

Sarah, things sound more hopeful. I know it's been a tremendous scare for you. It sounds like you're doing everything you should be to ensure his recovery. Kudos to you, and prayers for Joey!
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/29/05 09:21 AM

I just wanted to give everyone an update on Joey. His penis is still out but I think it may have retracted a little bit more since yesterday. The best news is that I watched him urinate this afternoon and it didn't cause him pain like yesterday! He just peed and then walked around the cage. He still doesn't like when I put the KY on and he tries to groom afterwood. He is eating babyfood, applesauce, and Ensure on his own, but still doesn't show much interest in solid food. Also, I talked with the vet this morning and he thinks we should keep on this regimen for a couple more days. It seems to be the thing to do since his penis is slowly going back in and he doesn't seem to be in as much pain as before.

Thanks to everyone for their prayers and advice. I am a lot more confident in my ability to help Joey get through this. I sure hope it doesn't happen again, but I know this is a lot better than it could have been.

Sarah
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/29/05 01:53 PM

Thank goodness! I have been so worried about him, I am so happy to see he is getting better.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Angie
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/29/05 02:45 PM

I am glad your little one is doing better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />. I can't imagine how scary it was for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />.

How do you clean the area? Would it be ok to use those unscented baby wipes? Or just warm water? I wondered if the acid in the urine was irritating his penis sores, you said he had little blood spots on his penis. I am not sure if they pee from their penis or some other urinary tract since gliders are an "all in one" opening.

Again, I am so glad Joey is doing better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />, will keep him in my thoughts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/29/05 05:07 PM

I clean the area very carefully with my hands, soft clean fleece, and KY. I don't use the baby wipes or anything that could dry the area out. I can get the fur off with my fingers, but I have to be patient and gentle - I don't pull at the penis itself; just stray bits of fur on the side. None of them are twisted around, just kind of sticking to the edges and sometimes between the forks. I use the fleece only if he has just pooped. Since his poop is runny right now, it will get onto the penis. The KY not only lubricates but keeps a little moisture barrier to the outside world. His sores seems to be healing - they haven't bled since before I put KY on.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/30/05 07:58 AM

Hi all, just wanted to give you the Joey Update for Tuesday. Joey is more active than previous days. I took him in the tent with Spice and me and we played for about an hour. His spirits seemed to be higher today, and he managed to run on the wheel a little bit now that he is more sure of what to do with the collar on. I put the wheel in the cage so he cn have something to do. The penis hadn't retracted anymore before tent time, but afterwards I noticed it had gone in a little more. Perhaps he just needed to be cheered up or to get more exercise.

One thing that is starting to concern me is that the other male (also neutered) has gotten really aggressive since Joey got sick. He is attacking everything. For example, I put one of my shirts into the cage this evening and he spent ten minutes attacking it! He just kept biting and biting it. The girls haven't been a big fan of him since he got more aggressive, either. I think he misses Joey, but I'm pretty sure he'd attack him if I put them together. I *DON'T* want another injury on my hands... in addition to just not wanting any glider to get hurt, it's to the point already that between the stress and the extra work, I'm pretty worn out...
Posted By: Judie

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/30/05 09:26 AM

Boy, you have your hands full.

First off, I feel the vet should have done a Culture and Sensitivity of the urine when first treated. This would have identified the bacteria and helped better with what antibiotic would be the best to administer.

Also, I am concerned now as to the glider having runny stools. Do not know how long this has been a problem... but if this has just started... it could be a side affect from the antibiotic. If this is the case... the vet needs to be notified and possibly a different antibiotic given. Strong anitibiotics will strip the gut in some gliders of their normal flora which often leads to a fungial overgrowth in the GI tract. Also, if this glider has gone off his diet since being on this anitibiotic... it could be due to the med as well.

As to cleaning... give the fella a warm bath on his back end only with a bit of gentle baby shampoo added to the warm water, then rinse him well on that area with warm running water and then towel dry his back side. Put glider then in inside your shirt to help speed drying. Finally... brush his fur out with a very soft toothbrush and then reserve the toothbrush only for him.

1) Call your vet in the morning and update him to the runny stool developement which may be a possible anitibiotic related problem.

2) Give the fella a warm bath to clean him up.

PS: Sorry, I forgot to reply... about the other little glider. Any change in behavior usually indicates there is a problem. More often that not... it is the first real sign of an illness that is not full blown yet. So... you may want to consider having him checked out by the vet just to be sure all is well with him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Good Luck.
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/30/05 02:44 PM

I asked the vet about it. He thinks the runny stool is because Joey will not eat solid foods right now. Mostly he is eating Ensure and baby food (chicken and fruit) and yoghurt because that is what I can get him to eat. The vet said it would be ok for a week or so and that his feces would be more solid when he returned to his normal diet.

As to the urine test, the vet tried to get a sample but Joey had been so freaked out on the way over that he peed in the pouch and there was no urine to get. I could try to get a sample but as I live forty minutes from the vet, he says it would be contaminated by the time I got there just from handling and time.

One thing I should have mentioned in my previous post: Joey and the more aggressive male (Meeko) are a bonded pair of neutered males. I was thinking the change in mood, which didn't start until a day or two after I separated Joey from the others, was because Meeko missed him. As the dominant male, Meeko scents all the other glider and the fleece and pouches. But with Joey separated, his own scent is coming back and now my hands and some of the fleece and pouches smell like a different male. Meeko has never been as sweet as Joey (he was not handled much in his first home) and he has always been a little aggressive; this is just more aggression than I have seen from him before.

But I will bring Meeko to the vet too the next time I go, just in case.

Sarah
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/30/05 02:45 PM

Also: Joey is getting much better at running in the wheel. I'm glad he has something to do now when I am not home and he is awake.

Sarah
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/30/05 11:19 PM

Joey's penis is about 80% retracted now. The vet called and said that I could cut down the e-collar (only a LITTLE BIT) to give him more mobility and more peripheral vision (he startles easily because he can't see anything except what's directly in front of him. The immediate effect of the collar trim is that Joey is able to run on the wheel a lot easier and faster.

The vet recommended keeping him on the antibiotics another week as well as the painkiller. I can wean him off of it if he is doing fine without it. The e-collar stays on as long as he shows any sign of wanting to groom the area immediately after urinating or trying to groom it too often. I can take it off only when I have extended time to observe him to make sure he won't go back to the intense cleaning. (Which is what I was planning anyway). I am to have an e-collar ready in case he does decide to go nuts grooming. I have to remember that right now, the area isn't as clean as a glider would prefer, and he probably will spend extra time cleaning around his cloaca and tail, but to watch for the excessive stuff.

Sarah
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 11/30/05 11:36 PM

Please keep us updated. I think you are doing a great job with Joey. I am praying and only thinking positive things for you all. Please let me know if you need anything or just want to talk.
((((hugs)))
Angie
Posted By: Lucy

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/01/05 05:37 AM

This sounds really positive, Sarah! I pray it continues to retract and that in no time at all, Joey will be completely well and not need the ecollar at all.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/02/05 05:47 AM

How's Joey now?Any update?
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/05/05 08:27 PM

Hi all,

My computer broke last week and I have not had much access to the internet lately. I have a few minutes now so here is an update on Joey.

So the same night my computer broke, I was cleaning Joey and noticed that the e-collar was cutting into his throat and making it bleed a little. It had rubbed off the fur around the base of his neck because the doctor hadn't put moleskin on the collar. I called the vet and he said to remove the collar, put neosporin on it, and watch Joey like a hawk to make sure he didn't attack himself. He said to keep one of my gals in the cage with him to distract him. So I took off the collar and for two days things went fine. Joey licked off the KY if I put it on him, so the vet said not to put KY on him. With Sugar in the cage with him he calmed down a lot and began keeping regular glider "business hours".

But Saturday morning I went to give him medicine and I noticed that the tips of his penis forks were kind of hard to the touch. I saw black spots too and freaked out because I thought his tissue was dying. Joey was sleeping through the night so he wasn't getting up to groom and moisten his penis on his own. I put KY on and called the vet, who was on his way out the door for the weekend (because that's always how it works, right? The gliders get sick at night or on the weekend). He said to get Joey in a collar again ASAP (this time with moleskin) and keep the KY on him every four or five hours.

After struggling for two or three hours, I got a collar to stay on (BIG THANKS!!! to MaryH and Charlie H for their help and phone support!!!). I kept the KY on and his penis softened up a bit. It is a smaller collar (made of report cover material and not x-ray material) and he is more mobile so he can use his pouch and run in the wheel but he can't get to himself. It is probably the ugliest collar you would ever see, but it works!

The black spots turned out to be bits of hair and lint that had dried on his penis when it started to dry out. Over the weekend I have been able to get most of it off of him. Some of it is too small to get off with my fingers and I think Joey will have to get that stuff when he is able to groom again (eg, at the base of the head of the penis fork).

This morning I noticed two things: a layer of old, drier skin is starting to peel off his penis. New, healthy looking skin is visible underneath. I think this skin layer was preventing Joey from retracting the penis all the way - it was drier and stuck the two forks together. I rubbed a little bit off when I applied the KY, and called the vet. He said that was fine and not something to worry about. Since Joey had been overgrooming his penis, it probably damaged the outer layer (epidermis) and that when new skin grew in underneath the old skin would begin to peel a little bit. Also the KY would help to separate the old and new skin.

The second thing is that the Clavamax is beginning to turn from white to tannish in color. The vet said that since Joey was only to be on meds until Wednesday, it is ok to stop early rather than to risk giving him bad meds. If signs of the UTI return, I have to call right away to get new antibiotics.

The vet also said that Joey must remain in the e-collar until three days after his penis has fully retracted.

Anyway, it has been a stressful weekend but things are starting to look ok again. I won't have internet access too often, but please email me at []swerning@ou.edu[/] if you have questions or advice.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/09/05 11:37 PM


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
Sarah, how is Joey doing? I will try to give you a call this weekend to chat. I am praying he is doing better and you are getting some rest. Its so hard to care for a little sick one.
(((((hugs))))
Angie
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/14/05 06:04 AM

I just spent twenty minutes typing out a long update only to have it lost by a "form is no longer valid error" when I hit Continue. I guess it is pretty much the way the rest of my life is going so the word to the wise is to copy your text before sending is, in case you don't want to go through and retype everything that was miserable to type out the first time...

Basically, my life has been pretty [censored] since Joey got since. Everything that could go wrong short of someone dying has gone wrong (and I am grateful that the latter hasn't happened). Money is so tight right now and it's getting worse. We all know having a sick pet is expensive. Well the first visit was $120 plus I had to get things like Prep H and KY and Ensure and baby food and neosporin. So the day after spending $150, my truck got hit and the driver took off. I spent what seemed liked forever in the police station and when I got home I found out that my insurance wasn't paying bills from July. That week my computer broke down and the tech on the phone made the problem worse... when they fixed it they put the wrong version of Windows on my computer. This is a week before finals and grades are due in addition to my grad school applications and everything I need is on my computer. I have it back now and it seems to be ok, fortunately. But Friday I found out that next semester the department will only need me for .75 time instead of full time, so I'll lose a quarter of my income starting in January. And to make matters worse, they only pay health care according to how much you work but they require you to have it. So they will only pay 75% of my costs, which means that just as I lose $650/mo, I start getting $85/mo deducted from my paycheck. Then some jerk wedged a beer bottle under my tire so now I have to get two new tires, and yesterday my visit to the eye doctor was $320. This is on top of the college applications which all cost $60 or $75 plus sending out scores to each one at $15 a school.

This would be easier to handle if I could get any sleep but because I have to put KY on Joey every 5 or 5.5 hours, I haven't had more than 5.5 straight hours of sleep since the day after Thanksgiving. To make matters worse, Joey hasn't made any progress in a week. His penis is still a little less than 1cm stuck out and he has a little scab on the tip of one of the forks. I try to keep that area extra clean but it hurts him and he squirms if I try to remove hairs or rub off dry skin around it... I hope it is a scab and not necrotic tissue but it's been there for four days now and I'm starting to worry. This afternoon I noticed another dark red or black spot on the side of the same fork, where the tissue had looked great until this happened. I tried to clean off the spot but I can't get it off. I hope that it will come off tonight but I keep [censored] out in case it is necrosis... What frustrates me the most is that I know Joey can pull himself all the way in---I've seen him retract it and then push it back out again. Why won't he pull it in so it can heal right? I am doing everything right and now he still might have to have an amputation. Everything, every single thing that the vet has told me to do, I've done. I have lost sleep and changed my schedule and rearranged my life just so I can come home and take care of him every 5 or 6 hours. Why does this have to happen and why now? Why can't he just retract it and keep it in? It's not like I enjoy cleaning his penis every few hours any more than he does! With the new financial situation, I don't see how I can afford a surgery, but I'll have to do it because I want him to live and because I love him. But the amputations sometimes make life miserable for these little guys and then you have to take extra special care for the rest of their lives, if they don't die from complications from the surgery... I might have to get another job next semester to make up for the lost income and extra expense of health care---how can I get a new job if I have to come home every few hours to take care of a sick pet? How can I visit schools if there is noone who can care for Joey every few hours? I'm so tired as it is, and it's only been three weeks...how can I keep this up for longer periods of time?

I haven't had a good night's sleep in almost a month. I took the Biology GRE on Saturday and I know I didn't do so well, thanks to limited study time and not enough rest... with school and money and sick pet stress, I'm almost at the end of my rope. I am so tired and frustrated and I feel so guilty because it's not like Joey chose to do this to me. But this situation has so many unpleasant repercussions. Everything I wrote above, plus Joey hates me from the penis cleanings and KY application, and Meeko attacks my hands when I go in the cage because I smell like another male glider (Meeko is dominant and Joey has been separated long enough to lose Meeko's scent). Sugar and Spice are sad because they are separated so Joey and Meeko can have company. And this all adds to my money problems and to my stress levels.

I want to go home for Christmas, but with the money problems and Joey, I don't know if I'll be able to. I need a vacation so bad, but is it fair to Joey to go on a 14 hour drive? Can I keep him clean and lubed on a road trip? I don't think I can fit two cages in my truck bed, but I can't put Joey in with Meeko or Meeko will attack him. I don't think it's even legal to bring a sick exotic animal through Missouri... I want to see my family so bad, but now when I need it the most, it doesn't look feasible at all. And my boyfriend is coming in on the 27th, but I think we're in for another few days together of not being able to do anything because we have to be home every 5 hours to take care of Joey.

Please, if you have any kind words or stories of everything turing out ok just when you thought it was at its worst, please post them or email them to me. I'm so stressed and sad and worried and I would like to hear some positive news... Thanks so much for reading; it feels a lot better to get it out and off my chest.

Sarah
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/14/05 06:21 AM

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> Hun, I do honestly feel your pain. Thanksgiving, my Sebastian SM his tail. On Dec. 6th, we had to have the end 3 inches amputated. I slept in my living room chair (which is NOT a recliner) every night since Thanksgiving up until last night. I have seen that "why are you doing this to me" look and it hurts so much. I know the effects of the constant worry. I know the fear that this is never going to end. Last night, Sebastian slept alone in his cage. First time since Thanksgiving. He has made it 3 days now without pain meds and without attacking his tail. I have had it easier then you have both with my glider and with the other aspects of my life but I do feel for you.

Things will get better. I'm in KS and if you need someone to glidersit for you, I will be more then happy to. I've kinda gotten used to no sleep.

Oh, and yes, you can take your gliders through MO.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/14/05 01:43 PM

Sarah, I am here if you need me to care for Joey for a while so you can have a break.
I do have a wonderful story for you! This story is about a little glider named Scooter, now his mom is named Debbie. Debbie had just gotten Scooter when he started chewing on his penis, she didn't know much about gliders but got him to a vet who did a amputation. Debbie posted here and somehow ended up calling me. She lives close by and came over. Debbie was going through some hard times and she wanted to do what was right for Scooter. She was torn, should she put him down as he seemed to be suffering or should she give him a chance to live and possibly recover which she wasn't sure was realalistic. Debbie brought Scooter over and I got to meet her, we talked for so long. Scotter was in a e-collar and he was still going after himself, Debbie was exhausted and I told her we would help babysit him so she could rest. She left Scooter here and after a few days he would start to miss her so she would take him home for a day or so and then bring him back. When Scooter was here someone had to be with him 24/7 so my husband and I took turns holding him, and he was hardly ever in the cage. If you weren't carefull you could get bit preaty hard as he had no control when the urge him him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> When he went home with Debbie she kept him on her the entire time too, even sleeping on the couch with him in her shirt. It took some time before he was well, he ended up having a UTI and a parasite but was not tested before the amputation. He did start chewing on the end of his tail and ended up having that amputated also. When the vet started treatment for the UTI and parasite he started to get well and we all relaxed a little bit. Today Scooter is out of the E-collar and doing great, he is with 2 females and living the pampered life. Its been over a year now since Scooter has recovered, if you come down again sometime you can meet him.
Please let me know if you need help. This weekend has been something wild here but I will call you and we can chat. Kiss Jeoy, Meeko and the boys for me.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Angie
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/15/05 04:30 AM

Sarah: I recently went through my first incident of a prolapsed penis with Phoenix. Despite negative results for UTI, bacterial/parasitic intestinal organisms and negative x-ray for kidney stones, my vet put Phoenix on Sulfatrim Suspension for 14 days and had me use Puralube Vet Ointment (a petroleum-based ophthalmic ointment) 3 times/day instead of KY jelly as he doesn't like how KY jelly dries sort of rubbery-like. He worries that it could actually cause constriction around the penis and impede circulation to it. The opthalmic ointment Dr. T. prescribed melts when applied and does not leave a residue. It worked very well for Phoenix. Our biggest worry was that both tips of his bifurcated penis had small black spots (necrotic tissue) and we were hoping partial amputation would not be necessary. Fortunately, the necrotic spots sloughed off by themselves. Phoenix has fully recovered but it took a good three weeks for penal swelling to subside so that the penis would retract completely.

Dr. T's first question to me when I brought Phoenix in was whether he was under any stress. Told him possibly due to the twin boys (3 months OOP) becoming extremely active with scent glands already developing on their heads. So it was decided to move them into their own cage in case dad was feeling stressed from some sense of competition for dominence. Perhaps Meeko (being the dominant male) was slowly becoming more agressive with Joey causing stress which might have had some bearing on the penile prolapse.

Hang in there, sounds as though Joey is on the mend. Once recovered, you'll have to make a decision as to whether you want to try putting him back in with Meeko. From my understanding in conversations with Bourbon in the past, if a glider is kept away from a cagemate for more than a week, there can be problems with the glider being accepted back so you may want to consider introducing him to one of your females if Meeko acts agressive toward him once Joey is ready to have a cagemate again.
Posted By: Charlie H

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/15/05 01:24 PM

I have a theory on the causes of prolapsed penises. Since the tests come back negative most of the time I don't think bacterial infection is the problem. Although in the case of Glideroo's male no stones showed up in the xray there could have been calcium crystals. These tiny crystals are the early stages of what is commonly referred to as kidney stones. They are difficult to detect but can become embedded in the kidneys and especially in the male penis causing swelling and discomfort. The uretha of the male is longer and smaller than that of the female therefore making it more difficult to pass the crystals. I feel that the over supplementing of calcium and the gliders inability to handle the excess is the underlying cause for most cases of gliders with prolapsed penises.
Charlie H
Posted By: SarahW

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/16/05 05:21 AM

Sad news today - the necrotic region grew quite a bit overnight, from a dot at the end to about 1/2cm long on one fork. The vet doesn't want to wait until Monday in case it gets even worse over the weekend. I am bringing Joey in for amputation surgery tomorrow. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> The vet will amputate one or both of the forks to prevent the spread of the necrotic tissue. He is going to leave a little bit of the fork/s near the base so that the urethra (which empties out where the forks split) will not be affected. He wants this done now so the necrosis doesn't spread to the body of the penis. Since Joey is neutered, it's not like he'll be using the forks for reproduction, but I had hoped this would be unneccessary... I am kind of relieved now that I know something is happening one way or another, but I wish it could have gone differently. Joey has an 8:30am appt tomorrow, please wish him luck and a speedy recovery. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/needhug.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/16/05 11:44 AM

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Sending wishes your way for a speedy recovery for Joey.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/16/05 06:01 PM

If it comes down to it; be careful who does the amputation otherwise she may not be able to urinate b/c the hole is too small. Last January my male had to have his entire penis amutated and be neutered. He wasn't supposed to live; he is still alive thank goodness. If you are in the Virginia area I can can give you the name of the surgeon. I trust him completely. I'll keep all of you guys in my thoughts!
Posted By: Charlie H

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/17/05 12:43 AM

Sorry it has come to this. Don't beat yourself up. You have done everything you possiblly could. Keeping my fingers crossed for Joey. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Charlie H
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! - 12/17/05 02:34 AM

How is Joey doing after his surgery?
Posted By: SarahW

Joey's Surgery - 12/17/05 07:08 PM

Joey had his surgery yesterday and things seem to be going well. The vet amputated almost all of both forks. Joey was already neutered, so the amputation just means he loses his forks and not the ability to reproduce. The vet was very careful. He left the base intact and wouldn't release Joey until he saw him pee. The urethra, which carries urine, empties out of the base where the forks split, so since that is intact, it shouldn't be a problem for Joey to urinate. The vet just wanted to make sure there was no swelling that would cause the urethra to be closed. Last night I watched Joey pee and it didn't cause him pain at all. There are no stitches because the vet used a cauterizer which prevents bleeding and seals and sterilizes the wound instantly.

Joey is doing really well, I think. He is sleepy because of the pain meds but otherwise ok. He is getting a lot of mealies and yogurt drops and other treats. Joey is on .02mL Torb every 8-12 hours as needed (I think it is a strong mix and the vet says no more than 3 times a day), .05 mL amoxi-drops (amoxicillin) twice a day, and .1mL Metacam once a day for swelling.

The only thing that surprised me was that the vet wants to forego the e-collar if we can avoid it. He said the scabs from the first e-collar look ok but should heal faster without an e-collar on. He observed Joey for two hours after he woke up from the surgery and said Joey paid no attention to his penis even before he gave him the meds. He said that Joey woke up, retracted his penis right away, and ran under some paper towels and started to groom his back and tail. I watched him all afternoon and evening (until about 3am) and Joey never once went for himself at all! Even when he peed, he was fine. I will have him with me all the time for the next few days to monitor him, but the vet says he thinks that if Joey was going to go after himself, it would have happened before he got the meds in him, when the pain was worst. Obviously, any change and the collar goes right back on... last time, the only reason we put it back on was so that he wouldn't lick off the KY and let himself dry out.

So---and I say this very cautiously---perhaps we are not entirely out of the woods yet, but it seems like things might be turning out ok. Thanks so much to everyone for their kinds words and prayers!

And I am especially grateful to Charlie, Mary, and Angie who have been such angels to me these last few weeks... it was only two days ago that I found out each had suffered recent losses of their own... I can't believe that they would be so incredibly wonderful to me despite sadness in their own lives. A sick glider is nothing compared to the loss of a family member or a glider you have loved for eight years. These are wonderful, beautiful people to share their knowledge and experiences with others even in sad times. THANK YOU!!!
Posted By: Badgersmommy

Re: Joey's Surgery - 12/17/05 07:26 PM

So happy to hear this!! Prayers sent and HUGS.
Posted By: KattyM

Re: Joey's Surgery - 12/17/05 09:02 PM

Sarah, what an inspiration you are to all who are owned by gliders. Your strength and courage throughout this whole ordeal, compounded with additional stressors--all a test, you know? (and you passed!)--is truly remarkable. I pray for little Joey's continued recovery and health, and for your continued peace of mind. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
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