GliderCENTRAL

(Toxic cage thread) Update on Cages and Recall

Posted By: Trigger

(Toxic cage thread) Update on Cages and Recall - 05/20/11 01:35 PM



I would like to take this time to let everyone know where things are standing right now in the current research on the cage issues.

As many of you know there are MANY folks affected by this. Those who have bought from personal breeders, and those that have bought gliders from PPP The health issues seemed to have started around the first of the year, possibly a bit sooner, and seem to be affecting the Northeast Coast for the most part. There have been a couple cases in the Midwest area as well.

I have been working with many of the owners of these gliders, along with Veterinarians that are working with these animals, and have either suggested where to have cage materials sent out for testing or either have sent out wire themselves to be tested. Along with the cage wire tests, there have also been many Necropsies and Histopaths and even a CT completed. Although there are peripheral signs of toxins, they are far from conclusive at this point, and unless you are aware of the exact toxin to test for, we may never know the actual cause of this problem.

If there is a silver lining here, it's that many of the gliders are recovering within a week or so once taken out of the cages and some have even started recovering when people take the gliders out of the cages, scrub them down (the cages of course) a few times, rinse well and dry (out in the sun is preferred). The main thing to do is to be sure you are giving your gliders as much fluids as possible to help *flush* whatever this is out of their system (on top of any medications the vets prescribe).

Currently, not only have I been working with private owners going through this and private breeders, but I have also been in contact with Pocket Pets when I saw the first post from one of their customers. Honestly, it was one of my fears when I first heard about all this, and I thought it might be an issue with the cages. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised when they voluntarily gave me access to the intense testing of cages that they've been doing, and the Necropsies and Histopaths they have had done so far. To be clear, I did not take their "word" for it. I verified everything independently, and guys, I have to tell you it was/is impressive how much they are putting in to try and solve this - even when a lot of these cases are not their own clients. Most of the Vets working on these cases are actually in communication with one another.

In addition to trying to track down the cause, I was even more encouraged to learn that Pocket Pets is the first group to step up and take action to try and actually help all these gliders. For the last few days they have been implementing a plan to send out mass amounts of new cages (even though the vets/scientists are telling them to wait until they have hard, scientific proof it's the cages), and when I talked to Adam there today, he was extremely frustrated and told me they are "fed up waiting on science to catch up with this". He then informed me that they were pulling the trigger this morning and would start sending out new cages (tested and safe) today. As of just a few minutes ago, I have verified that Pocket Pets has in fact initiated a mass replacement program by sending out a letter to those believed to have gotten cages made with these wires. They are replacing cages on an urgency basis as fast as they can possibly be made - and their manufacturer has already been working round the clock for the past 72 hours testing wire and beginning to build new cages using a wire source that is proven to be safe. They have been in contact and are working with those that have gotten gliders from them that have died or are affected by the current situation. They have also assured me that once the dust settles they will replace any of their gliders who happen to pass over from this situation.

Last I heard when Martins Cage co. was contacted, they stated their cages had been tested and they were "fine". REALLY?.... So it sounded like they were not going to take any action as of just yet. This may change now that the evidence is mounting against them, but I can only hope that everyone else who has accidentally sold this wire or cages that are affected will follow the recall procedure that Pocket Pets voluntarily started just to be on the safe side and keep as many sugar gliders safe as possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting these guys up for sainthood, but as far as I know, this is the first concrete action I've seen anyone take to replace cages.

If any more cases come up, I am in hopes that folks will contact me so I can send the information over to the people that are trying to figure this out and maybe, just maybe, we will be able to find out what the problem is. Once again, the ONLY thing ALL of these gliders have in common is the cage wire being used. At this point nobody knows what is affecting the cages - other than that there have been multiple tests by independent sources for lead - and all those tests indicate that lead is not the problem.

Posted here @ the request of Peggy Brewer
Posted By: Mastiff_Mama

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 01:41 PM

Where is the original post on this, I had no clue!
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 02:14 PM

The original is on LGG and I was asked by Peggy to post here.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 02:19 PM

PPP was not the first group to start testing. Testing was started back in February when this happened to gliders in CT.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 02:30 PM

Tammy, no one is stating that PP was the first to start testing, it is stated only that they are the first to start a recall on cages.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 02:46 PM

Martins cages to my knowledge doesnt think anything is wrong with his so they havent done a recall.
Posted By: Midien

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 02:54 PM

Quote:
If there is a silver lining here, it's that many of the gliders are recovering within a week or so once taken out of the cages and some have even started recovering when people take the gliders out of the cages, scrub them down (the cages of course) a few times, rinse well and dry (out in the sun is preferred).


Is there a particular cleaner or method that you would suggest for someone to try scrubbing their cage? Would Dawn and a scrub pad work well enough, or something else?

Edit: ^_^; I just have one of the Martin's cages, and thought to try to save it somehow if I could, but will be either building or finding a second cage in the meantime. Then again, even if I wash it, there's not really a way to be sure that it's safe, is there?
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 02:56 PM

I will explain this as clearly as possible...

IF you are a pocket pet customer who has one of the cages that is affected from pocket pets, pocket pets is doing their own personal recall on those cages.

To date NO other companies have owned up to any problem or taken and action to correct it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:01 PM

I had a martins cage and I washed it all the time and they were still affected. I have taken it down and storing it for evidence or testing. I wouldnt trust it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:15 PM

You guys.. I AM a pocket pets customer, and They emailed me this morning about the cage replacement they are sending me one.

I need a cage though right now for another situation.. I have 2 brand new Babies arriving TOMORROW via plane from a breeder (i had no idea about this cage situation)

I was planning on using the PP cage because it's an extra now for my new babies for the Quarantine process. - NOW I'm not going to do this anymore, i'm going to throw out this cage, However I still NEED a cage until Pocket pets mails me another replacement. Can I get one from Petsmart?
What do you guys think of this cage.?

i am NOT advertising.. please mods don't delete my post.. i just want to link this for Question purposes.. I really want to know people's opinions on this cage, because I think I need to go buy one before tomorrow. I can NOT wait until PP sends me another cage I need one right now..

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3402796&lmdn=Product+Type
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:21 PM

Splinter, for a short term situation you can get a large pop-up kennel from Walmart for about $20

http://www.walmart.com/ip/SportPet-Pop-Open-Kennel-Large-Cats-Dogs-Small-Animals/5192528
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:23 PM

Adding, the cage from Petsmart looks OK, but if you really just need something to hold you over till your new PP cage arrives the pop ups are what many of us use as regular travel cages for our gliders
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:24 PM

SplinterBaker, it seems to be PVC coated cages that are affected right now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:25 PM

Thank you so Much Trigger!! I REALLY appreciate it..So this pop-up Kennel is safe?

So what do you guys think about all of this?

Should I trust the NEW cages that pocket pets is sending out to me? should I trust that those will be good and not hazardous?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Trigger
Adding, the cage from Petsmart looks OK, but if you really just need something to hold you over till your new PP cage arrives the pop ups are what many of us use as regular travel cages for our gliders


I'm kind of worried about what PP is sending out to me as a replacement as well.. =/ These are 2 brand new babies arriving tomorrow.. and I don't want them to go through what splinter has gone through.. it's been a nightmare he almost died. =(
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Midien
Quote:
If there is a silver lining here, it's that many of the gliders are recovering within a week or so once taken out of the cages and some have even started recovering when people take the gliders out of the cages, scrub them down (the cages of course) a few times, rinse well and dry (out in the sun is preferred).


Is there a particular cleaner or method that you would suggest for someone to try scrubbing their cage? Would Dawn and a scrub pad work well enough, or something else?

Edit: ^_^; I just have one of the Martin's cages, and thought to try to save it somehow if I could, but will be either building or finding a second cage in the meantime. Then again, even if I wash it, there's not really a way to be sure that it's safe, is there?


It has been recommended to use Dawn Dish liquid with SUPER hot water and SCRUB (with a scrub brush) and rinse with hot water as well. Do this a few times.

This is recommended by OSHA and Veterinarians alike in many instances. Dawn Dish liquid is what OSHA recommends for clean up of oil on animals in an oil spill as well.

Please remember testing is still ongoing regarding these cages/wire, at this point the exact problem with them is still unknown so how to fix the problem is unknown as well.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: SplinterBaker
Originally Posted By: Trigger
Adding, the cage from Petsmart looks OK, but if you really just need something to hold you over till your new PP cage arrives the pop ups are what many of us use as regular travel cages for our gliders


I'm kind of worried about what PP is sending out to me as a replacement as well.. =/ These are 2 brand new babies arriving tomorrow.. and I don't want them to go through what splinter has gone through.. it's been a nightmare he almost died. =(


Pocket Pets has 2 distributers they use for their cages, 1 of them had the bad wire and therefore the problem with some cages in certain regions, the new cages they are sending out are from their other distibuter who is not using the bad wire.
Pocket Pets from a purely business standpoint would not send out replacement cages to the customers just to suffer the exact same problem all over again.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Trigger
Originally Posted By: SplinterBaker
Originally Posted By: Trigger
Adding, the cage from Petsmart looks OK, but if you really just need something to hold you over till your new PP cage arrives the pop ups are what many of us use as regular travel cages for our gliders


I'm kind of worried about what PP is sending out to me as a replacement as well.. =/ These are 2 brand new babies arriving tomorrow.. and I don't want them to go through what splinter has gone through.. it's been a nightmare he almost died. =(


Pocket Pets has 2 distributers they use for their cages, 1 of them had the bad wire and therefore the problem with some cages in certain regions, the new cages they are sending out are from their other distibuter who is not using the bad wire.
Pocket Pets from a purely business standpoint would not send out replacement cages to the customers just to suffer the exact same problem all over again.



Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Curious guys, Would a Gingi pop-up Tent work as a good temporary cage? I've already got one at home.

http://www.amazon.com/Genji-Sports-Self-...7344&sr=1-3
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 03:58 PM

Yep, it would work fine, just make sure they are not chewers so you don't end up with escapees.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:02 PM

Does someone have a picture of a martains cage? I want to double check when my cage gets here today it's not from them. And if It is, its a beautiful day I'll enlist a friend of mines help to scrub it down in her backyard lol.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Norpa
Does someone have a picture of a martains cage? I want to double check when my cage gets here today it's not from them. And if It is, its a beautiful day I'll enlist a friend of mines help to scrub it down in her backyard lol.


I Believe this is the pocket pets cage Made my Martin's. This is the CAGE that I have, and that I got when I first purchased my glider. It's the starter cage.

Edit-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/computermilk/5740459886/in/photostream
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:15 PM

Norpa, Martin's sells many different cages in different sizes and shapes. This wire is not only used by Martin's cages though. Some of the owners here in the community have built their own cages and had their gliders affected due to the use of the certain wire.

Here is a link to martin's so you can see the type cage
http://www.martinscages.com/products/cages/sugar/
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By: SplinterBaker


I Believe this is the pocket pets cage Made my Martin's. This is the CAGE that I have, and that I got when I first purchased my glider. It's the starter cage.

Edit- Sorry the Link didn't work. Let me re upload it.



Lol its okay my Fire Fox was like "NO! this site is forbidden you cannot look at it! The connection is unsecured! I will not allow you to step on digital foot in it!" thank you, I'm pretty sure its not martains but better to be safe than sorry! I want my new darlings to come home to a safe cage next saturday.
Posted By: Midien

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:18 PM

Short of scrubbing and having our cages tested somehow (which... I'd honestly feel like a horrible person for 'testing' it with a sugar glider's life... so I'm probably looking at a new cage until there's somewhere I can send a sample of wire or something, and we know what the deal is) are there any particular cages that are you guys' favorites to recommend as long-term replacements?

How do you feel about 'ebay cages'? I know Sun Coast and King's Cages are places that people on here trust to test their cages... are there any others on that list that you trust to give safe products?

I'll likely build a temporary/secondary pvc cage, but since I think I've found a future cagemate for Nox (YAAAY), I'll need to have two SAFE cages anyway at first, and having one of those be their permanent home is ideal.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: SplinterBaker
Originally Posted By: Norpa
Does someone have a picture of a martains cage? I want to double check when my cage gets here today it's not from them. And if It is, its a beautiful day I'll enlist a friend of mines help to scrub it down in her backyard lol.


I Believe this is the pocket pets cage Made my Martin's. This is the CAGE that I have, and that I got when I first purchased my glider. It's the starter cage.

Edit-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/computermilk/5740459886/in/photostream


Please remember Pocket Pets does NOT use Martin's cages, but Martin's cages have been linked to ill gliders also. The issue we believe is the actual wire used for cage building, not just a specific cage company.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Trigger
Originally Posted By: SplinterBaker
Originally Posted By: Norpa
Does someone have a picture of a martains cage? I want to double check when my cage gets here today it's not from them. And if It is, its a beautiful day I'll enlist a friend of mines help to scrub it down in her backyard lol.


I Believe this is the pocket pets cage Made my Martin's. This is the CAGE that I have, and that I got when I first purchased my glider. It's the starter cage.

Edit-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/computermilk/5740459886/in/photostream


Please remember Pocket Pets does NOT use Martin's cages, but Martin's cages have been linked to ill gliders also. The issue we believe is the actual wire used for cage building, not just a specific cage company.



Oh so is this cage that they give out not a martin's cage?
Posted By: IowaGlider

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:22 PM

Maybe I'm the only one thinking this, but from what I've gathered, there is no clear answer or determination on the cause of the glider illness (besides probably the cage wire). But what exactly is "safe" about the new cages that Pockets Pets is sending out if there is no known reason for what is wrong in the first place?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:25 PM

Thank you Trigger and Splinter. I am relieved to say the wire on my cage looks nothing like either of those. I understand that its not just Martins cages effected but the wire. The only reason I asked about that specific cage was so I could get a look at the wire itself and determine if I needed to clean my cage really well (which I planned on doing anyway regardless of the make/wire) or if I should start looking for a new cage if others were saying the cleaning wasn't working. I may have to go down to the pet store and give the lady a heads up though saying some people are having complications and she should keep an eye out in case they decide to recall the cages. Not anything to scare her but enough to be wary. I'll make sure to direct her here if she has any further questions.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:26 PM

i did not get my glider from pocket pets but we did get our cage from them. do you know which cage it was that was recalled
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:30 PM

Post edited.. apparently I can't talk about this..
Posted By: GliderGuy540

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:33 PM

Originally Posted By: kimbo6605
i did not get my glider from pocket pets but we did get our cage from them. do you know which cage it was that was recalled


I would suggest you contact them directly.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:33 PM

Originally Posted By: kimbo6605
i did not get my glider from pocket pets but we did get our cage from them. do you know which cage it was that was recalled


Kimbo send me a private message and i'll tell you which cage it was that I had.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: kimbo6605
i did not get my glider from pocket pets but we did get our cage from them. do you know which cage it was that was recalled


It is the starter cage that has been affected from Pocket Pets, if you have their single or double upgrade cage you should be fine. Please feel free to contact Pocket Pets if you are unsure.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 04:58 PM

I am going to give a brief recap because I am going to be on the road for about an hour but will check back in.

Pocket Pets is doing a cage recall for their affected customers, so far they are the ONLY company issuing such a recall.

New cages being sent out from Pocket Pets are from a different distributer than the affected cages.

Martin's cages also appear to be affected but those are NOT the same cages Pocket Pets uses, same TYPE cages but different companies altogether.

Some private owners who built their own cages from the wire in question also have been affected, hence the deduction that the common factor in all this is wire used to build cages by many far & wide.
Posted By: Sami

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 05:17 PM

I have the "Posh Sugar Glider" Martin's cage. We literally got it in the mail yesterday and set it up last night. Would I be okay to go home and scrub the heck out of it, or is it a lost cause? frown
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 05:35 PM

I would say scrub the heck out of it. Better to be safe than sorry.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 05:36 PM

Sami right now the community doesn't know if scrubbing these cages will work or not.
That is a judgement call that only you can make.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 05:48 PM

I wouldnt use any cage that comes from there. Noone knows if they switched batches or companies.
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 06:12 PM

It has been recommended to use Dawn Dish liquid with SUPER hot water and SCRUB (with a scrub brush) and rinse with hot water as well. Do this a few times.

This is recommended by OSHA and Veterinarians alike in many instances. Dawn Dish liquid is what OSHA recommends for clean up of oil on animals in an oil spill as well.


Not everyone has the money to put into another cage so quickly after just getting one.

Sorry Sami, I know that cage was not an expense that you were looking at having to flush down the toilet.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 06:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Trigger


Pocket Pets has 2 distributers they use for their cages, 1 of them had the bad wire and therefore the problem with some cages in certain regions, the new cages they are sending out are from their other distibuter who is not using the bad wire.
Pocket Pets from a purely business standpoint would not send out replacement cages to the customers just to suffer the exact same problem all over again.


Okay...so I need to understand this. All heck has broken loose because gliders are sick and dying from Martin's and PPP cages. However, we don't know WHAT the problem is because the results of the tests haven't been returned. We don't KNOW what it is in the wire, we're just sure it's the wire. Yet above, you state that it's already been determined that one distributor has the bad wire. How is this possible if a) we don't have test results to TELL us what's wrong and b) we don't know what it is IN the wire that's bad.

I'm just trying to understand, that's all...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 06:41 PM

Several people have had their cages and have washed them down repeatedly before putting the suggies in and have had this happen. Therefore washing it again probably will not solved this problem. I too did not have the extra money for another cage but I spent all that money on the vet visit, meds, euthanizing Taz I was not about to let them die. So I had to rob peter to pay paul and get another cage.
This really does stink .
Posted By: GliderGuy540

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
Originally Posted By: Trigger


Pocket Pets has 2 distributers they use for their cages, 1 of them had the bad wire and therefore the problem with some cages in certain regions, the new cages they are sending out are from their other distibuter who is not using the bad wire.
Pocket Pets from a purely business standpoint would not send out replacement cages to the customers just to suffer the exact same problem all over again.


Okay...so I need to understand this. All heck has broken loose because gliders are sick and dying from Martin's and PPP cages. However, we don't know WHAT the problem is because the results of the tests haven't been returned. We don't KNOW what it is in the wire, we're just sure it's the wire. Yet above, you state that it's already been determined that one distributor has the bad wire. How is this possible if a) we don't have test results to TELL us what's wrong and b) we don't know what it is IN the wire that's bad.

I'm just trying to understand, that's all...


From what I gather, PPP uses two different cage manufacturers and only gliders in one of the two are getting ill; therefore, the assumption is made it is isolated to a certain batch/distributor. This is the way I understand it anyway. However, since Martins isnt providing ANY information about which of their cages may be implicated we have to assume they all are a potential risk (at least those purchased in the last 4-6 mos anyway).
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:01 PM

Thanks, Kevin...so still, this is a supposition and not FACT. I think that needs to be stressed to people that we can't say for sure that the only one of them had the bad wire...it's only that so far, that's what's showing up.

The monkeys are coming out of their cage today and will go into something different.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:15 PM

i have contacted pocket pets in refernce to this and havent heard anything yet about it. So when i do i will let everyone know
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:28 PM

I contacted Martins cages about my cage and they said until yesterday they only heard about 1 case of gliders getting ill in their cages. However yesterday and today they received lots of email regarding this.

she is compiling a list of people who call her that bought a cage from them. She also said she is pulling the cages off the site until whatever is causing this can be found.

She did tell me to pull the gliders from the cage until the reason is found. I told her I did pull them and have them in a different cage and that 2 gliders were affected and 1 passed away and a necropsy and testing is being done on him.

She said it does sound like the cage is the cause but testing is not showing anything.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:34 PM

Since I know the wire is at the least similar, has anything been linked to Klubertanz wire? I know many people buy their wire from Klubertanz (me included). If there is a connection, we really need to know so we can protect our gliders as well.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:37 PM

Teresa, I do know that the same wire company that suplies Martin's does supply the wire for Klubertanz as well, I do not have any further info on them as of yet.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:41 PM

That's scary.

I haven't bought any in a very long time (couple of years) but was planning on another purchase soon...guess that is now off the table!


Has Klubertanz been made aware of this situation?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:45 PM

I did this same very thing a few days ago and the black coating has since started to come off. So now I am forking up the money and buying one from Granite State Gliders today, a local suggie store/breeder. Pocket Pets is sending me a new one, but I am not waiting for however long it takes for them to get it to me. And the one I am planning on buying is much bigger...
So hopefully my sick little guy has a 100% turn-around. The shaking has stopped, and he's been eating and drinking as usual, but his hind legs still seem affected. Does anyone know if this is reversible?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:51 PM

IF the cage is from Pocket Pets, then you don't need to fork up $ to buy a new one- they are sending out new cages free of charge. All you have to do is email them- once you tell them your sugar baby is sick, they will send you one out asap for free.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:54 PM

Rodzgrl, at this point people are seeing a very good survival rate WHEN
1 gliders are immediately removed from cages
2 push fluids, push fluids, push fluids
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 07:58 PM

Rodzgrl,
Chloe has stopped shaking, wobbling, seems stronger and seems to have regained her back legs since she was on the meds from the vet. I ordered my cage from suncoast and had it within 3 days.
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Rodzgrl
I did this same very thing a few days ago and the black coating has since started to come off.

The black coating is coming off my PPP travel cage!!!!! worried
Posted By: queenduck

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 09:18 PM

I see where it has been reccommended to clean your Martin's cage with Dawn and whatnot. But my friend who bought her cage wire from Martin's, and then built her own, washed the cage wire with everything, multiple times, and if you knew her you'd know her cleaning/and care for her babies is #1.

Well all that cleaning did not work for her. She had several gliders ill/die, and it happend in more than one cage.

If it was me and I had just got a brand new cage (or a cage this year) from PPP or Martin's, I would not use it, no amount of cleaning would do. I'd put it in the garage and wait for further information or I'd send it back and demand a refund.

Pop up cage or a cheap flight cage is much better than taking a risk and relying on Dawn.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 09:23 PM

Thank you Alicia for the information on the success of just trying to clean the cages.
I understand the frustration and expense of getting another cage but I agree, with my babies better safe than sorry is the way to go.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: suggiemom1980
Originally Posted By: Rodzgrl
I did this same very thing a few days ago and the black coating has since started to come off.

The black coating is coming off my PPP travel cage!!!!! worried


Connie, I can only advise contacting Pocket Pets directly regarding the black coating coming off your travel cage, I know absolutely nothing about the travel cages, to my knowledge these are not the cages in question or involved in this recall but you really need to go straight to the company for an answer on those.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 11:00 PM

My glider is very sick & I am in contact with Pocket Pets as is my vet. It's pretty serious at this point. I have removed him from his cage, but it may be too late.

We got Bammer with his cage in January from Pocket pets. If you need any other information from me, please let me know. It's so sad to see him suffering. I don't want anyone else to have to suffer what me & my son & Bammer are suffering now.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 11:10 PM

Daysea, most people affected are seeing improvement withing a week of getting their babies out of the affected cages and following vet care. FLUIDS have been vital, please get your baby to take fluids and more fliuds to flush the toxins from his system.

Glad you got to the vet and got your baby out of the cage.
Rooting for Bammer down here in TX!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/20/11 11:24 PM

The vet didn't seem to optimistic. He said he's seen 15 in the last month from this issue & they've been able to save 50% and none will ever be 100% they said. I'm hoping he's wrong.

Thanks everyone for the info & links on temp solutions for cages. We are being sent a new cage free from PP, but it may not be here for a couple weeks.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 12:23 AM

Daysea, where are you located in VA?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 12:15 PM

My Chloe was saved from the vets visit with meds and lots of syringe feeding fluids. Taz was not able to be saved.

this is what my cage looks like that I bought in December that caused mine to be sick (we think)

Diana Martin has pulled all the glider cages from the site, but this is the flying squirrel one that looks identical to mine.

http://martinscages.com/products/cages/flysquirrel/
Posted By: Feather

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 02:31 PM

Martins Cages need to realize that the problem is the wire and that they use the same wire for other animal's cages.

I can't believe for a minute that other pet owners are not seeing the same signs that we are, granted if the animal is bigger it may be taking longer for the symptoms to manifest in the animal.

They need to pull all pet cages until this is resolved.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 04:25 PM

i was wondering what cage did you get from pocket pets. i got the jungle gym its on step up from the travel cage. and do you know if that cage was affected by this
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 04:30 PM

Its the wire that the cages are made with, I wouldn't chance it.
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 04:48 PM

It almost sounds like two situations are going on here and being made out to be one. There are several new members who recently purchased gliders & cages from PPP. We don't know that those ill gliders are ill just because of the cages. PPP has a history of selling gliders who are not the healthiest.

I think the focus on cages/cage wire in question should be to those with recent purchases of cages/wire for gliders that were not purchased from PPP. I think those tests/studies will give the true results of what could be going on.

What kind of time frame with these cages and the gliders becoming ill are we dealing with? Are these new cages and the gliders became sick quickly - or have these gliders been in these cages for quite some time? I'm just asking to be sure we are really looking at the wire these cages are built with.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 04:57 PM

While I agree that PP has a history of selling ill gliders, the NUMBERS of ill gliders is just not "normal" even for PP.

The thing that all these ill gliders have in common (so far as I can piece together) besides symptoms is that they are all in fairly new (since October) cages made from the black pvc coated wire (like the klubertanz wire). And that once removed from those cages and given fluids and meds, many are showing signs of recovery.

These cages have come from PP, Martins and homemade from random rolls (it has been said that Klubertanz also receives their wire from the same manufacture).
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 05:17 PM

I also understand that the older gliders are taking longer to show symptoms, where the younger ones and joeys are showing symptoms faster.

Some gliders are showing symptoms months after being put in these type of cages, while others are showing symptoms just weeks after.

This is a sad, sad time for all owners and gliders that are affected by these types of cages.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 05:32 PM

i got my cage from pocket pets the jungle gym, my glider Baily who is 6 months old she is fine. I still got rid of the cage i wouldnt want to chance it. i sent them a email yesterday and no reply yet. and there is no number that i could find for pocket pets. to those of you who have a sick glider i am sorry and i hope that they get better.
Posted By: shannyn

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 06:00 PM

If it's the jungle gym single, double, or outback then it is fine because they are epoxy coated not pvc.....i think
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 07:00 PM

I recieved a email back from Pocket pets and it explained everything. the model cages aand everything thank god ours wasnt affected but still not putting baily in it.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/21/11 11:46 PM

Could someone please tell me:

Is it the cage wire like this:
http://www.thechickenhutch.com/images/_5x1vin.jpg

or the cage wire like this:
http://www.martinscages.com/images/full/WRP.jpg

Or is it both?
Posted By: GliderGuy540

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 12:22 AM

Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Could someone please tell me:

Is it the cage wire like this:
http://www.thechickenhutch.com/images/_5x1vin.jpg

or the cage wire like this:
http://www.martinscages.com/images/full/WRP.jpg

Or is it both?



My Martin's cage was made from 1/2 x 1 inch pvc wire
Posted By: kitsune

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 12:41 AM

I'm looking for a close picture of the type of black pvc-coated wire that is contaminated so I can post it on my CL warning. I've seen the two Alden posted, and one other type that looks like a totally different brand (I have a cage like this one, it's older tho). I need to know which pic I should post.







Thanks all!
Posted By: Ikeda

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 02:30 AM

You know... I've kept VERY quiet about this. I too have and recommend Martin's in the past. My gliders aren't sick. Frankly, you people YOU the community are taking something that Bourbon and LSardon posted and BLOWING this thing COMPLETELY out of the water.

1) You THINK it's the wire. Prove it. Show me the test results as they haven't come in yet.
2) Martin's Cage and PPP run the same issues. But not ALL gliders are having the issues. So you must be making SOME form of guess (educated or not).
3) Until you have a 100% conclusive study, who's to say that you don't go out and buy a cage that has equally harmful properties?

I love my gliders but ya'lls anxiety and stress over this situation followed by statements of FACTS that are not backed up is only making the ENTIRE situation worse.

That's my statement.

P.S. My gliders are happy and fine. If they aren't then I'm sorry that I made the wrong decision but I will ERR on the side of skepticism ANY time someone tells me that something is true without providing facts that prove it to be so.

P.P.S. Since everyone is speculating.. I think that there is a volcano in the Pacific belching ash over Japan which is floating over the U.S. and causing all the issues...
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 02:41 AM

Ikeda, you have absolutely NO idea what is going on here! You go ahead and keep your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing wrong and I will continue to keep praying for the gliders that are affected and of course I will add YOUR gliders to my prayer list.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 02:53 AM

Should we all keep hush hush about this? Allow more gliders to become ill? Allow more to die?

With the amount of gliders, AND PEOPLE (yes, I read on another forum that people are getting ill too) by this... well, I would hope everyone would choose to err on the side of caution.
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 04:26 AM

Quote:
you people YOU the community are taking something that Bourbon and LSardon posted and BLOWING this thing COMPLETELY out of the water.



actually "I" said there are no definitive, that the commonality is the cage wire..

please don't make this out to be me or lindas starting.. it is the gliders that are speaking with common grounds, and the facts many are getting better when removed from the cage..

"I" haven't told anyone to pitch their cages,

I don't think you have your head in the sand, on the contrary, I think you are very much like the vets... not going to do anything till there are definitives found..

I call that making a personal decision, in spite of what is being said by many whose gliders have been in this situation and is recovering from it.

it is your decision.. and I applaud you for making it, is it the same decision I would make? who knows, depends on the cages I have and whether or not it is in the "hot" areas if it is a PP cage or if if ordered if it fell into the time line of distribution of martins cages..

but then it would be my decision.. and with that decision I must live with the consequences if it were the wrong one, and the joys if it were the right one.

sounds to me that everyone is asking which cages MAY be affected, and then making that " personal decision" on their own.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 04:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Ikeda
You know... I've kept VERY quiet about this. I too have and recommend Martin's in the past. My gliders aren't sick. Frankly, you people YOU the community are taking something that Bourbon and LSardon posted and BLOWING this thing COMPLETELY out of the water.

How can one argue with FACTS that are black and white throughout the forums about this. Rainbow Memorials, have you read through those recently? Health and Hygiene?

Those of us who have been diligently working behind the scenes collecting data, researching, working with Vets, and Agencies are doing so in order to find out the facts. Informing the community before final conclusions is no different than the weatherman giving you a 7 day forecast. Preparation, information, and caution.

We have already received grief for not coming forward sooner. Now that we have, we still get the slack.




Posted By: Bourbon

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 04:58 AM

Kitsune..

the 1" x 1/2" wire pic you have is the right size, but the coating is much heavier the coating thickness is similar to that of your picture 1

i took a pic of the wire from a cage I have here at the house, I hope it will help those that want to know about the wire itself.

if it is a pocket pets cage, contact them, they will let you know about your cage.

Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 05:00 AM

I have removed the monkeys from their cage and it's outside covered in plastic. I had a long discussion today with Diana Martin from Martin's Cages and she, too, recommended I do so. It had already been done...and I feel confident in my decision.

Everyone can make their own choices...but I will say that at this point and time, until the test results are in (and yes, Ike...there is a tireless amount of testing going on behind the scenes), I will err on the side of caution and not take the chance. For something as simple as taking the cage outside until I know one way or the other, it's worth it to me. The monkeys are MY responsibility and if they get sick, and I knew of a possible cage issue yet didn't take action, then it's on me. I can't deal with that.
Posted By: Midien

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 05:56 AM

I've got a new cage on the way from Suncoast, thankfully, and Nox is in his travel cage for now. The way I see it, I won't pitch my Martin's cage or anything (don't think I could stomach doing it yet anyway, for as much as it cost), and if there's a way to test for sure to see if it's affected when all the results come in, I'll check it out.

Worst case scenario? I have to throw the cage out or send it back or something. Best case? If it comes back safe, hey, that just means the babies have an extra cage. smile

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that it'll come back as something simple that can be fixed somehow.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 06:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Ikeda

1) You THINK it's the wire. Prove it. Show me the test results as they haven't come in yet.
2) Martin's Cage and PPP run the same issues. But not ALL gliders are having the issues. So you must be making SOME form of guess (educated or not).
3) Until you have a 100% conclusive study, who's to say that you don't go out and buy a cage that has equally harmful properties?


What?! Over 100 gliders are DEAD.

So ... I'm for taking ALL proactive steps. Maybe some of the steps will eventually turn out to be unnecessary. So - go ahead and take steps WHILE continuing testing.

Or - just do nothing until the test results come back with the FACTS you want. How many more gliders will be dead then?

The *ONLY* common factor amongst the sick and now dead gliders is the CAGE they are in. The CAGE! It is a FACT that of the many many many now-dead gliders that have been seen by various vets - they were on different diets, different toys, different water sources, different everything. The common FACTor was THE CAGE.

So - ok - maybe it turns out that they are reacting to something else. But - until then, I think we'd be extremely careless and neglectful if we didn't take whatever meager steps we can take. If that step is to remove them from a cage made with suspect wire - then how hard is that? Is it worth your gliders' lives to be stubborn, dig your heels in and demand proof before you act?

Oh - edited to add - it is entirely coincidental that the gliders who aren't too far gone actually begin to improve immediately upon being removed from THE CAGE. But- you know - you go ahead and wait for proof!
Posted By: Sherri

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 06:59 AM

clap thumb
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 07:03 AM

Well said Alden! thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 07:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Sherri
clap thumb


Originally Posted By: Gizmogirl
Well said Alden! thumb
Posted By: kitsune

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 07:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Bourbon
Kitsune..

the 1" x 1/2" wire pic you have is the right size, but the coating is much heavier the coating thickness is similar to that of your picture 1

i took a pic of the wire from a cage I have here at the house, I hope it will help those that want to know about the wire itself.

if it is a pocket pets cage, contact them, they will let you know about your cage.



Thanks Bourbon, I've got no worries about any of my cages, just realized that most of the people with gliders in my area don't go to the forums...CL is the best way to get the word out, your picture will help a great deal!
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 02:59 PM

Well said, Alden...very well said. This is why I finally chose to remove the monkeys. I'll admit that when this first came out, I was a bit skeptical. Not anymore and I'm not willing to chance it.

ALL: Do nothing with your Martin's Cages - just move them out and cover them so the elements don't bother them should the time come that you're able to use them again. Testing is ongoing and Martin's is in the process of going back to October and pulling out records of those that have purchased cages and also talking with their distributors. One of their distributors provides to them AND Klubertanz...not sure about PPP yet.

For those "in the know"...I'm sure I could go back through the threads and look, but is it ONLY the Majestic cages from Martin's that are seemingly affected?
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
but is it ONLY the Majestic cages from Martin's that are seemingly affected?


To my understanding, any cage made from that wire COULD be affected.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 03:27 PM

That's not my question, Sara. I want to know if the cases involve more than just the Majestic's. The Majestic uses a completely different sized wire roll than the others so it makes a difference.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
That's not my question, Sara. I want to know if the cases involve more than just the Majestic's. The Majestic uses a completely different sized wire roll than the others so it makes a difference.


I would assume that the answers still the same..
Gliders in all different PVC coated cages are being affected.
Pocket Pets uses PVC coated wire for their starter cages -- and gliders are getting sick from it.
The Majestic uses PVC coated wire (from a different sized role), and gliders have been affected.

Even gliders in homemade PVC-coated wire cages are being affected by this.
Posted By: GliderGuy540

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
That's not my question, Sara. I want to know if the cases involve more than just the Majestic's. The Majestic uses a completely different sized wire roll than the others so it makes a difference.


I know of one person whose gliders were affected had a majestic. I had one of the smaller size cages from martins. And another person I know of who had sick gliders built her own cage from wire purchased from martins.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 04:21 PM

Thank you, Kevin. smile
Posted By: Ikeda

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 04:54 PM

I like how because I'm a skeptic my head is in the sand.

Fact: There was a church claiming FACTUAL evidence that yesterday was the Rapture. It was not apparently.

Fact: There are a LOT of people the believe autism is directly related to a combination of shots children receive before pre-school. My daughter has received the shots and shows no signs. (let it be known that I actually personally believe this to be true but without hard evidence, would NEVER preach the school of thought. It it more of something to be taken into very CAREFUL consideration)

I'm sorry but people in general can tend to go into overdriven paranoia mode.

I grieve for the ones in our community affected (and I do feel horrible about those who've lost some of the best friends you could possibly have) but a LOT of people are completely blowing things out of proportions. Who's to say the wire/PVC are the primary causes? Maybe it's a result of chemical reactions or the like. (to Dawn, to glider feces, to bug sprays, to Febreeze, etc)

@ Bourbon, @ LSardou: It was not my intent to imply or otherwise in any negative way speak about your posts. Ya'll have done nothing but been nice, forthright, and pillars of the glider community. Everything you two (and the MBP) have done thus far has been on the up-and-up and I truly do appreciate that.

That being said, some in the community are using words like "ARE" and is "IS" when we SHOULD be using words like "POSSIBLY" and "LIKELY". It's like shouting fire in a crowded building.

I will pray that everything will work out with my gliders, just as I pray every day that my family won't be injured, ill, or killed. I hope I'm not a statistic for this but if I am, it'll be a statistic that will be able to help the community as a whole. I've checked on my gliders every 6 hours since this affair has started and I will continue to do so to ensure that if there is a possible reaction I will be on top of it as fast as possible. If anything, my gliders are enjoying the increased attention.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 05:08 PM

Please forgive me as I am just entering this conversation and do not know any of you. I am new to Glider Central. But I feel that it is necessary for me to speak up and tell my story.
I purchased a sugar glider from PP a few months ago and named her Cocoa, she had the sweetest disposition and she took to me almost right away.
Almost a month into to her time with me and my family she began to act lethargic and shake with tremors. She was very disoriented and did not want to walk and would simply fall over. I became concerned right away and rushed her to the closest exotic vet I could find, an hour and a half away.
Her 1st diagnosis was malnourished on account of the PP food. She was put on the BML diet and mealworms. I hand fed her for a another week with no improvement, so I took her back.
This time she was diagnosed with a neurological problem caused by toxins. The vet basically said that she was somehow exposed to a chemical or mold. I thought I was to blame. He told me that it was going to kill her and offered to put her down. I refused.
Sadly after continuing the hand feedings and babying her everyday she did pass away on May 14th.
Just a few days after that I get an email from PP explaining that there was a problem with some of the cages they issued and that they contained toxins causing this problem. They offered to replace the cage.
I did email them back requesting a replacement animal also, as I write this email I did just receive a call from them confirming that I would too get another glider.
I am happy to know that I will get another but very very sad that I lost Cocoa due to this. I did not ask them this, but shouldn't I also be reimbursed for the vet bills and travel expenses?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Ikeda
Who's to say the wire/PVC are the primary causes? Maybe it's a result of chemical reactions or the like. (to Dawn, to glider feces, to bug sprays, to Febreeze, etc)



That's part of our point, Ikeda. The fact of the matter is this cages should be 100% safe, and are stated as such, even when coming into contact with urine/feces/cleaning products.

So let's say, for the heck of it, it's the gliders urine. The same common denominator is STILL the wire coating. PVC coating. So what now? Tell our gliders not to pee in such cages?
What about the FACT that PEOPLE are getting sick from these cages as well? I find it hard to believe any person, after seeing all the stacking evidence, would KEEP their animals in such cages.

I'm glad you question things. That's fine and dandy. But you're willing to let your gliders be part of such a nasty statistic and for what? I don't get it.


Originally Posted By: RememberingCocoa

I am happy to know that I will get another but very very sad that I lost Cocoa due to this. I did not ask them this, but shouldn't I also be reimbursed for the vet bills and travel expenses?


I am so sorry about your loss. I wish I could say WELCOME to GliderCENTRAL, but really, how good of a welcome is it when it's such a sad situation that brings you here? hug2 I can't imagine how you or anybody who has lost a glider to this cage coating feel.

If I were you I would contact PPP again and ask them about this? IF they agree, I'm sure they'd want to see receipts, so you'd have to provide those. Good luck with that. I hope it works out well. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Ikeda
Who's to say the wire/PVC are the primary causes?


Who? How about ... uh ... the CAGE manufacturers? How about PPP who sold the cages? How about the fact that PPP has initiated a cage recall, and Martin's has pulled glider cages from their web site.

Yes, tests are still being done. But the initial results are convincing enough to move Pocket Pets and Martin's into action.

That's enough "proof" for me!
Posted By: GliderGuy540

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Ikeda
I like how because I'm a skeptic my head is in the sand.

Fact: There was a church claiming FACTUAL evidence that yesterday was the Rapture. It was not apparently.

Fact: There are a LOT of people the believe autism is directly related to a combination of shots children receive before pre-school. My daughter has received the shots and shows no signs. (let it be known that I actually personally believe this to be true but without hard evidence, would NEVER preach the school of thought. It it more of something to be taken into very CAREFUL consideration)

I'm sorry but people in general can tend to go into overdriven paranoia mode.

I grieve for the ones in our community affected (and I do feel horrible about those who've lost some of the best friends you could possibly have) but a LOT of people are completely blowing things out of proportions. Who's to say the wire/PVC are the primary causes? Maybe it's a result of chemical reactions or the like. (to Dawn, to glider feces, to bug sprays, to Febreeze, etc)

@ Bourbon, @ LSardou: It was not my intent to imply or otherwise in any negative way speak about your posts. Ya'll have done nothing but been nice, forthright, and pillars of the glider community. Everything you two (and the MBP) have done thus far has been on the up-and-up and I truly do appreciate that.

That being said, some in the community are using words like "ARE" and is "IS" when we SHOULD be using words like "POSSIBLY" and "LIKELY". It's like shouting fire in a crowded building.

I will pray that everything will work out with my gliders, just as I pray every day that my family won't be injured, ill, or killed. I hope I'm not a statistic for this but if I am, it'll be a statistic that will be able to help the community as a whole. I've checked on my gliders every 6 hours since this affair has started and I will continue to do so to ensure that if there is a possible reaction I will be on top of it as fast as possible. If anything, my gliders are enjoying the increased attention.


A cage manufacturer (Martin's) has advised people to remove their gliders from their cages in purchased since last October. Do we have proof positive it is the cages? No, but it's the best working hypothesis we have at this time. If you choose to wait for definitive proof before taking action, that is your choice.
Posted By: kitsune

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 09:41 PM

Ikeda,

I understand that you don't think there is enough factual evidence to be certain the wire is the problem, but I don't see why that means we should risk our gliders' lives on the possibility (even if it were a large possibility) that the cages are not the cause. If there were two strong theories, like if we were unsure whether it was the wire or contaminated papayas, you can bet I'd rather pull my little ones from possibly affected cages AND avoid feeding papaya, just in case. In the end, if it turned out to be the papaya, I'd still be glad I didn't take the chance on the cage. People are certainly free to keep their suspect cages until the theory is confirmed, but leave their gliders in it? Why take the chance? If your child's car seat was recalled on the basis that some were made with bad parts, would you use the seat until someone proved to you that your particular seat was unsafe? If you want to take the chance, that's up to you...but if you're encouraging people to continue to use cages that MIGHT be causing gliders to become ill and then die, that puts blood on your hands when the cages are confirmed the problem and more deaths came about because of your encouragement to wait for solid fact. If it's not the cage, well, you've encouraged people to avoid some kind of inconvenience...grats...and in my opinion, avoiding possible illness and death is worth that kind of inconvenience.

If you've got theories about other possible causes, please post it, it should be looked into! But if you're here simply defending Martin's cages, or because you're trying to justify your own lack of action for your little ones' lives, it doesn't sound to me like you've got the kind of objectivity that is needed to find the real source of the loss of life.
Posted By: sharit

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 09:45 PM

[url=file://localhost/Users/sharitatman/Pictures/Photo%20Booth/Photo%20on%202011-05-22%20at%2015.21.jpg][url=file://localhost/Users/sharitatman/Pictures/Photo%20Booth/Photo%20on%202011-05-22%20at%2015.21.jpg][url=file://localhost/Users/sharitatman/Pictures/Photo%20Booth/Photo%20on%202011-05-22%20at%2015.21.jpg]file://localhost/Users/sharitatman/Pictures/Photo%20Booth/Photo%20on%202011-05-22%20at%2015.21.jpg[/url][/url][/url]
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/22/11 10:04 PM

could you please try that again, Shari? I'm not sure what you were trying to post.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 06:01 AM

Shari,
By the file name of what you were trying to share, it appears to be on your hard drive.
Upload the photos to photobucket, then share. wink thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 06:27 AM

I'm new to this site, but I just heard about this problem and bought a Martin's cage on May 7th. I have two gliders that are both a year old and don't seem to be exhibiting any of the symptoms listed or acting weirdly. I made sure to clean the cage after putting it together and just recleaned it tonight with dawn and water to be sure.

I'm very sorry for anyone that had gliders affected by this issue, but I was wondering how long the gliders were in the cage before they started showing symptoms? I'm just worried that mine might be getting sick and just hiding it. Luckily I still have their old cage that I can move them into while this gets sorted out. I have also contacted Martin's cages about the issue to see what they have to say.

Thanks for your help.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 06:42 AM

It can take months for the gliders to show effects and apparently just washing the cage is NOT enough.
Posted By: Midien

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 08:28 AM

Hey, I thought I'd note this since I observed it tonight, though I don't know if it'll be useful at all. I hope so. Wasn't sure which thread in which to post it, so here goes. smile

I decided to sniff my cages.

The PPP one that I was given with Nox does NOT have a distinctly obvious plastic-y odor to it. My Martin's cage DOES, and it's extremely noticeable.

I brought Nox home on April 15th with the PPP cage.
I bought my Martin's cage on April 26th.

I can't give evidence of a sick glider, though, since I've pulled Nox from the cage while he's still doing okay. Not taking the risk.

I hope this is somehow helpful. I know all it really means is that there's probably 'off-gassing' or something to an extent, but I figured I'd take the chance that the observation, and any of the implications from it, would be useful somehow to someone.
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 11:23 AM

I want to apologize before hand because I know this will offend some people, and in my heart of hearts I truly do not mean to, but I know how somethings are easily taken the wrong way. So please forgive me.

I do not want to take this thread off topic, so if Ikeda or anyone else wants to continue THIS part, please feel free to PM me
Originally Posted By: Ikeda

Fact: There was a church claiming FACTUAL evidence that yesterday was the Rapture. It was not apparently.

There was no FACT to this. It was one man's ego trying to put himself above Christ. FACT: part of recorded history, a man commonly called Jesus was quoted as saying "NO man knows the day or hour, only the Father knows" So please do not use the ravings of a mad man as an example of a church or the use of supposed fact.

Now as to the cage issue: when more than a handful of animals are getting sick and DIE and there SEEMS to be a common denominator, whether it is fact or not, why risk your animal's life by not taking safety measures???

Why wouldnt you take it out of its cage??? Better to be safe than sorry. I know if I had those cages I wouldnt care about expense, all I would care about is keeping my family members safe (furred and unfurred alike) and the cage would be tossed. The price of a cage does NOT compare to the value of my Arwen's life or my other gliders.

I am sorry if I come off strongly here, but reading of these deaths has me in such a state of depression and for some of you to say dont react...I would have and did agree to not panic when it was one or two gliders, but it is over 100??? cry cry cry

Anyone who really knows me knows I am not the panic type. I also do not have the cow/herd mentality. But now is not the time to speculate, now is the time for ACTION. This cage situation MUST be resolved and gliders or other animals protected!
Posted By: shannyn

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 12:20 PM

Well written JillMarie smile

I usually keep quiet but i have been following this thread and i have to say it definitely got interesting after Ikeda's post. I hope it wasn't his intention to upset so many as it appears the post has done so..i can see where he was coming from in writing his opinion and i don't think that in making his decision he should be chastised ..everyone has made their own decision on what to do given their own situation and everyone comes here to GC for support and information sharing and a general community and that's why GC is so great!

Maybe ...the post would have been received better if the the words such 'blowing things completely out of the water' were not included. Those types of phrases usually trigger a more emotional response when emotions are already heightened :/ especially when sick and dying little ones are involved.


I'd really like to see the thread back on topic because i like coming here for regular updates smile
Posted By: MissSarah

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 12:24 PM

In my opinion, this not the place to hash out your views on Christianity or vaccinations as neither has anything to do with contaminated cages. The only thing those two subjects are good for is starting fights and there's been enough tension as it is.

I don't understand why you would want to keep your animal in a cage that even has a chance of being toxic. I'm such a worrywort I'd wrap my gliders in bubble wrap if I thought it would keep them safe! I know there's been mention of new cage costs or whatever, but is saving a little money worth the possibility of watching your baby suffer slowly and die? I understand not wanting to jump the gun and if it were a simpler issue I'd agree. But when you put death on the table as one of the possible outcomes, my family and I will follow the herd.
Posted By: FuzzierThanMost

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: MissSarah
In my opinion, this not the place to hash out your views on Christianity or vaccinations


Agreed, its really just rude to those of us whom dont care about ether and only about our gliders. Gliders dont care about religion or vaccinations so lets all focus on them.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 01:01 PM

Does anyone have any idea if the people affected that bought from Martins or bought wire to build cages have had any luck with their companies offering any help, replacement cages or refunds if they have nothing safe to offer?
Do all the Martins customers just have to eat their losses or what?
Posted By: Sami

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 01:10 PM

I (very) recently ordered my Martin's cage...it actually came last Thursday, I came home from work and spent a few hours on putting it together and adding all the new toys and treats I bought for them, and found out about the recall on Friday morning. I sent Martin's an email to see what they'd do for me, because that's a huge expense to have to put outside until further notice...

PM me for the response.

Not everyone will be so lucky with the return (but if you bought your cage recently, definitely try this!!) Even if it all turns out there's a simple fix to make your cage safe, it isn't worth a glider's life. I don't want it on my shoulders if a glider gets sick that I could have done something to prevent it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 01:14 PM

I spoke to Diana Martin on Friday and she told me she was pulling the cages off the site so no others could be purchase until testing is completed. She told me if it is proven that it is the cage they will reimburse for the cage. but in my opinion I am owed more than that. My babies suffered, Taz was put down to end his suffering , there is vet bills, testing, necropsy etc.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Update on Cages and Recall - PART ONE - 05/23/11 01:22 PM

See PART TWO
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