GliderCENTRAL

(Toxic cage thread) Update on recall -PART THREE

Posted By: Gizmogirl

(Toxic cage thread) Update on recall -PART THREE - 06/01/11 01:31 PM

See PART TWO
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/01/11 03:24 PM

Hoping this doesn't get lost in the thread again.

Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Are those that are in charge of the testing in contact with the manufacturers?
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/01/11 04:13 PM

Shelly, they aren't going to answer you. I've seen you ask that several times now.
Posted By: pumpkin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/01/11 09:57 PM

Does anyone have any links to any confirmed cases of gliders that are being kept in the Klubertanz wire cages being affected by this?

I telephone'd Klubertanz and was told that as far as they knew, there was no recall on any of the wire they sell. I think I'm in the clear, as I cannot locate any specific case of Klubertanz wire causing illness to a glider. But, I want to be SURE.

I have a powder coated cage where my gliders will be kept until I can be certain that Klubertanz wire is safe. These symptoms are terrifying, and I'm not taking any chances.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/01/11 10:23 PM

Originally Posted By: pumpkin
Does anyone have any links to any confirmed cases of gliders that are being kept in the Klubertanz wire cages being affected by this?

I telephone'd Klubertanz and was told that as far as they knew, there was no recall on any of the wire they sell. I think I'm in the clear, as I cannot locate any specific case of Klubertanz wire causing illness to a glider. But, I want to be SURE.

I have a powder coated cage where my gliders will be kept until I can be certain that Klubertanz wire is safe. These symptoms are terrifying, and I'm not taking any chances.


This is exactly WHY the manufacturer of the alleged bad wire need to be made public.

Sorry, I can't answer that for you. Did you get your cage after October 2010?
It's a good thing that you have a spare cage.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/01/11 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Dancing
Shelly, they aren't going to answer you. I've seen you ask that several times now.


I am starting to feel ignored.
Posted By: pumpkin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/02/11 03:03 AM

Originally Posted By: GliderNursery

Sorry, I can't answer that for you. Did you get your cage after October 2010?


I purchased the wire in the beginning of 2011. Due to a wrist injury, my boyfriend and I never finished building the cage. My gliders have never come in direct contact with the wire, although it has been sitting in a corner right next to their current cage for at least four months.

I do hope someone discovers the cause of this mysterious illness soon. All I want is to be certain my gliders are not in danger.
Posted By: Berg

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/02/11 03:28 AM

Originally Posted By: pumpkin
Does anyone have any links to any confirmed cases of gliders that are being kept in the Klubertanz wire cages being affected by this?

I telephone'd Klubertanz and was told that as far as they knew, there was no recall on any of the wire they sell. I think I'm in the clear, as I cannot locate any specific case of Klubertanz wire causing illness to a glider. But, I want to be SURE.

I have a powder coated cage where my gliders will be kept until I can be certain that Klubertanz wire is safe. These symptoms are terrifying, and I'm not taking any chances.


I don't have a direct answer, put I have a data point. We purchased cage panels from Klubertanz in December from which I constructed our current cage. Our four gliders have been living in in it for more than six months without any ill effects.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/02/11 06:32 AM

Quote:
I telephone'd Klubertanz and was told that as far as they knew, there was no recall on any of the wire they sell.


Based on the limited info we are being given, we don't know WHICH manufacture has the bad wire and we don't even know IF the manufacture has been made aware of the issue. Martins, Klubertanz and Pocket Pets do not manufacture the wire they use/sell.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/03/11 06:33 AM

Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
Originally Posted By: Dancing
Shelly, they aren't going to answer you. I've seen you ask that several times now.


I am starting to feel ignored.


I'm not ignoring you. I just don't have an answer for you. roflmao hug2
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/03/11 08:43 PM

roflmao
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/05/11 09:26 PM

Hi,

I have a PVC coated cage that I purchased from Martin's Cages it is the model LSG-550 and my babies have been in it since I brought them home in March. It has been a battle since the beginning, because the breeder I bought them from sold them to me when they weren't even weened. I am very confused at this point and I'm unsure if maybe the cage could have had something to do with them almost dying the first couple of weeks when I brought them home? Or a combination of the bad breeder and the cage toxin? My Gliders are not in the best condition today, lately they have been acting strange slumped over in the corner and not wanting to run on their wheel. Now I was thinking maybe it is something I am feeding them? But it can't be because I feed them the BML Diet to the T. Along with balanced foods for their CA/PH ratios. Also I clean their cage often and toys/pouches. Well I jumped on my email today and received an email from Martin's stating they wanted me to remove my babies from the cage and they will be sending me a replacement when they figure out the issue, so I emailed them explaining my issue and hope for a timely response. In the mean time I am going to get a temporary cage because I honestly feel this may be the real issue with why my babies seem sick all the time. Now I feel horrible that I made them sit in this toxic cage for 2 months, thank goodness they are with me most of the day and a night when they are out playing with me. Maybe that is another reason why they are still alive because they aren't even in their cage much? Obviously the manufacturers know their is an issue otherwise they wouldn't be offering a replacement/ have taken the cages off the website and are no longer selling them. Manufacturers do not do this unless they know their is a serious issue. Hope this post helps. I know all of your posts have helped me. My babies will not be going in that cage ever again!
Posted By: Trigger

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/05/11 10:31 PM

Glad the babies are out of the cage, remember to push fluids, watery fruits to flush those toxins out asap.

Keep us updated on your babies!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/05/11 11:39 PM

Please keep us updated, we definitely worry
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/06/11 05:09 PM

Does anyone have a survivor? My sick one has been out of the 'evil' cage for 2 weeks now, and she is still weak. She seems to have trouble with her balance and coordination. The shaking stopped almost right away, and she is grooming herself again which is a good sign. She is eating/drinking well (I feed her by hand 2x a day to be SURE) and was even up a few gms her last vet visit. The vet ran blood tests the last time she was in, and it showed that her organ function looks good. I am getting nervous that she has permanent neurological damage at this point though.
Posted By: BCChins

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/06/11 05:16 PM

I have 3 survivors out of 5. I hate to say this but she may never be the way she was. One is 95%/one who is 85% normal and one who is 75% normal. He will be able to live the way he is but unfortunately he will never be able to have a wheel and will live the life of a Special Glider who can not use his back end the way he did before.

I can only tell you to give her time and keep pushing her to eat good healthy foods. Give some out of cage time to work those leg muscles but make sure the area is safe from falls.


Private message me if you need to talk.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/06/11 05:54 PM

I also have a sugar glider who is surviving and improving - he began the tremors on 5/20. I immediately took him to the vet who told me about the concern with the cages - I had also the day before received the replacement cage email from PP.

We removed both gliders (the other has shown no symptoms)and started a regiment of injections to remove the metals from his system and flush his system with fluids. The tremors are minimal, but his coordination is still not great - although it is better and he can make the wheel go around once. He even jumped a short distance from one person to another.

Has anyone received their replacement cage from PP and begun using it? I assembled it last night but am still a little nervous about putting them in it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/07/11 08:32 AM

I have gotten my replacement cage from PP, but still don't have an animal to put in it, as my baby died on may 14th. It's all assembled and set up with toys, just no one to play with them. When I had both cages, I noticed a sure difference in smell between the two. The old one (which was cleaned frequently before and once after her death) had a very distinct chemical smell and the new one smells kinda like wood chips or saw dust to me. Has anyone else noticed this?
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/07/11 03:04 PM

so sorry to read abt. your little cocoa.

take care,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: flower09

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/07/11 03:48 PM

I am so sorry about Cocoa. It is great that you have come on here even after little Cocoa passed to help try to solve this horrible problem
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/08/11 02:09 AM

Thank you so much, I am very happy to have found this site. It is very comforting to know I am not alone and have so much support and help if I need it!!
Thank you everyone for being so wonderful!!!!
Jennifer
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/08/11 04:36 PM

Thanks BCChins and VAGliders, I will just keep doing what I have been, and hopefully she will come around.
Posted By: GliderGuy540

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/08/11 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: hermes
Thanks BCChins and VAGliders, I will just keep doing what I have been, and hopefully she will come around.


I also have a survivor and she is almost 100% recovered. So, have faith and keep up with the treatment your vet advises.
mlove
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/08/11 11:45 PM

Those of you who have been treating with luck... what has been working?

We're going to the vet tomorrow for this issue (she wasn't in today) so I want to know what I should ask for, and what I should tell her.

I already know plenty of water, and I've been doing that. I also picked up some watermelon, too.
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 03:41 AM

Wait...Jen..you're having issues from the cage????

If so...push fluids...over and over...as much as possible to flush the toxins out! I know you're doing this...just sayin'. frown
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 04:07 PM

Yep, Cici too. frown I thinking since she's the youngest her immune system wasn't the best yet, and that's why she is the only one with problems. We ordered a new cage already.. should be here soon.. hopefully.

She's getting plenty of water! I'm not forcing it, but I'm offering her the water bottle several times a day, and she's drinking. She tent tests just fine, so at least I know she isn't dehydrated. She's getting skinny though, so last night they got avocado and watermelon in addition to their usual fruits/veggies. I made sure she ate some of that, too.

We go in about two hours. Kind of a shame no one else replied. frown

From reading I seen antibiotics and vitamin B shots.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 05:03 PM

i wish somebody had answered also as i am taking my 3 in.
vanilla, coco and shadow. coco and shadow started showing
signs last night. their appt. is for 4:00.
i made the appt. for vanilla but last night i saw shadow
and coco were not up to par and have the symptoms i have been reading abt. so i am bringing them all in.

i had bought a large tower cage from exoticnutrition and thought i was safe. but i got an email from them telling me my cage and others are being recalled and to take the gliders out of this cage. they said to contact martins as they are the ones that supply to exoticnutrition and other companys.
i emailed martins as instructed and they are sending me a
new powder coated cage when they come in.

i will also be sending a copy of the paid receipt from the vets today to martins as i feel they are responsible for
my sick babies. i am going to ask for reimbursement of all
the vet. charges do to this terrible situation that is going on.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. the cages from exoticnutrition that were recalled so far are:castle cage, tower cage, mansion cage and travel cage. if your gliders are still in one of these cages i advise you to get them out. my gliders were in the tower cage since feb. and last night started showing signs.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: hwh4ev

p.s. the cages from exoticnutrition that were recalled so far are:castle cage, tower cage, mansion cage and travel cage. if your gliders are still in one of these cages i advise you to get them out. my gliders were in the tower cage since feb. and last night started showing signs.


Just want to emphasize this Nancy as it kind of gets lost at the bottom of your post. thumb

Jen and Nancy I am so sorry that you have to deal with this. hug2 Please keep us posted.
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 05:29 PM

I will, Liezel. I have about 30-45 minutes before I have to leave.

My vet wanted info, so I printed up the email I got from Martins, this post: http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...thy#Post1109408 also this vet's phone number, Dr. Tristan's phone number, and a conversation my husband relayed to me when he talked to Martin's.

I can't think of anything else to include. frown
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 05:48 PM

I've been looking for information for you Jen, maybe this will also be helpful.

Cage toxicity vets contact details for vet phone consultation?
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 05:53 PM

I took down Dr. Stewart's information already.

There's just so many topics and so many pages it's hard to find stuff.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 05:59 PM

As much as folks do not want to hear it...

If and when you need to take your gliders to a vet because they are showing signs of this, PLEASE have them sign up on the ASGV board... There are SO MANY GOOD Vets that are on there right now that are dealing with these same issues with their own clients. They are talking amongst themselves and they have access to what testings have already been done and what is currently being done from my understanding.

Also this has recently been posted...

http://www.exoticnutrition.com/suglcare.html

It is VERY important to know that Martins is not as small as folks think they are. They supply many different places with cages.

I have to say, from here on out, you will NEVER see me recommend this type of cage wire to be used as a cage when folks ask. This has happened in the past as well, just not to this degree. To me, its just not worth the risk.

I say Epoxy or Powdered coated cages ONLY...

Dr.Tristan has always told me to stay away from Galvanized cages due to the SMALL risk of zinc toxicity. Now I tell folks even with the small risk of this ever happening again, also stay away from PVC Coated Wire.

I do hope these threads will be some that stay in the archives and not automatically cleaned out after the 30 day period.
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 08:11 PM

We are back from the vet.

She has happy to hear that Cici has improved since I've taken her out of the cage.

We were prescribed amoxicillin, Lactulose, metronidazole, and vitamin B shots.

I'm to give the shots and the lactulose until symptoms are very much improved or gone, the other two are for a week and then we'll see where we need to go from there.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 08:24 PM

Thank you for the update Jen, I am hoping for improvement and fast recovery. hug2
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 10:06 PM

Glad to hear you've seen improvement, Jen! Please continue to keep us posted!!
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 10:40 PM

I noticed improvement a day or two after I took her out of the bad cage. Her shaking went down considerably, and her balance/motorskills have slowly been returning. Hopefully all of these medications will help her get back to at least something close to 100%.

Also: My new cage came today, yay!
Posted By: Thumper

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/09/11 10:48 PM

I built some Klubertanz cages with wire I bought late Sept 2010 and those cages are fine. I bought more wire 3/26/11 and modified one of my original cages with the new wire. 6 of my gliders were placed in the modified cage and 5 of them were shaking last night. 1 of them was shaking and vomiting.

I immediately removed them from the cage last night and they spent the day with my vet. He gave them all a shot of atropine and they seem to be doing better.

As of today Klubertanz has not offered to replace/refund.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 01:10 AM

i got back with the vets. with my 3 gliders and my poor babies went thru the wringer. they all had to be put under as they were each getting 3 shots and 1 blood work to send to lab.
each glider got a shot of calcium edta (draws the metals out of system), vit. b12 and subcutaneous fluid.
she also gave me oral calcium edta for each glider to take
2 times a day. the oral doesnt work as well but she said
my gliders werent bad at all.
i gave her the numbers of the vets. that have treated this
problem. i believe she did consult with one of them, from my
eaves dropping.
the vets. office will call me when they get the blood results and she said we will go from there, maybe changing
the meds. or whatever.
she did not give them any antibiotics. which i dont mind as they dont have infections of any kind.

the only good thing abt. this is that she said they were not bad and they should be ok in a week or 2. yeh.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. i am saving all of my vet. receipts because one of these companys are going to be paying all vet bills for this.
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 02:14 AM

I'm glad to hear that your vet visit went well.

Good luck getting them to pay for stuff, and let me know if you succeed in that. I highly doubt they will, though, since there is no proof (ie, no tests have come back with anything linking the cages to my knowledge) at this point that it is actually the cages.

I would love for Martin's to eat the $160 I spent at the vet today. Plus my future appointments I have for Cici.

All of this is just so crummy. I'll be glad when it is all over.


Got my new cage cleaned and put together! It wasn't hard at all, and it fits through my doorways!
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 02:38 AM

somebody is going to pay for all the lost gliders and sick ones that are still getting sick.

keep all receipts and bad cage for proof.

good luck to all of us in this heartbreaking time.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: Kitkatt1216

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 02:55 AM

I've missed a lot of this issue as I've been off the boards for a bit. I was wondering if we had a list of safe/unsafe places to get a cage, as a lot of the problem seems to be in my area, my vet did mention it to me today when I was in. I have a cage in desperate need of replacement but am now almost afraid to do it. If a safe/unsafe list exists, could someone kindly point me towards it.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 11:53 AM

any powder coated cages are safe. you can get some at suncoast.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 04:37 PM

Are the actual wire manufactures taking any steps to fixing this yet???
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 10:06 PM

Has anyone heard anything from Martins? I've sent them two emails after the inital "Remove your animals from the cage" email and still haven't heard anything? My babies are doing GREAT! Definitely up to their mischief again! They are much better since I removed them from the cage earlier this week thank goodness. However their temporary tent cage isn't going to last forever. My heart goes out to everyone who has lost a glider I'm so sorry.
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 11:10 PM

I've managed to get responses. Though I didn't reply directly to that email, instead I've emailed whatever address they said to in that email.

My husband has also managed to speak to them on the phone. He talked to them last week, I think, and they said at that time 3-4 weeks, minimum, for new cages to be ready to go out.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 11:41 PM

Originally Posted By: hwh4ev

i had bought a large tower cage from exoticnutrition and thought i was safe. but i got an email from them telling me my cage and others are being recalled and to take the gliders out of this cage. they said to contact martins as they are the ones that supply to exoticnutrition and other companys.
i emailed martins as instructed and they are sending me a
new powder coated cage when they come in.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. the cages from exoticnutrition that were recalled so far are:castle cage, tower cage, mansion cage and travel cage. if your gliders are still in one of these cages i advise you to get them out. my gliders were in the tower cage since feb. and last night started showing signs.


Since the manufacturer has not been identified, how will you know if you are getting the exact same wire on the new cages being sent?
Posted By: sphynxie

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/10/11 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Originally Posted By: hwh4ev

i had bought a large tower cage from exoticnutrition and thought i was safe. but i got an email from them telling me my cage and others are being recalled and to take the gliders out of this cage. they said to contact martins as they are the ones that supply to exoticnutrition and other companys.
i emailed martins as instructed and they are sending me a
new powder coated cage when they come in.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. the cages from exoticnutrition that were recalled so far are:castle cage, tower cage, mansion cage and travel cage. if your gliders are still in one of these cages i advise you to get them out. my gliders were in the tower cage since feb. and last night started showing signs.


Since the manufacturer has not been identified, how will you know if you are getting the exact same wire on the new cages being sent?


Because the old cages are pvc coated and the one they are sending her is powder coated right?
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/11/11 02:42 AM

I was wondering if all those of you who have paid for testing and necrpcies were gonna get together and try for a class action law suit. Seems like this needs to be stopped from happening again. Someone knows where and when this started imo there is a cover up. I am sorry for those of you going thru this. Many hugs and prayers to you all.
Posted By: jennVA

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/11/11 03:00 AM

Originally Posted By: sphynxie
Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Originally Posted By: hwh4ev

i had bought a large tower cage from exoticnutrition and thought i was safe. but i got an email from them telling me my cage and others are being recalled and to take the gliders out of this cage. they said to contact martins as they are the ones that supply to exoticnutrition and other companys.
i emailed martins as instructed and they are sending me a
new powder coated cage when they come in.

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. the cages from exoticnutrition that were recalled so far are:castle cage, tower cage, mansion cage and travel cage. if your gliders are still in one of these cages i advise you to get them out. my gliders were in the tower cage since feb. and last night started showing signs.


Since the manufacturer has not been identified, how will you know if you are getting the exact same wire on the new cages being sent?


Because the old cages are pvc coated and the one they are sending her is powder coated right?



Yes. The new cages are going to be powder coated. The promblem cages were PVC. Martins is having to send out the wire to be powder coated as they do not handle that in house.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/11/11 03:17 AM

update on my 3 gliders. they are doing great today and i cant believe the difference in all of them they are running, gliding and playing like gliders should.
those 3 shots plus the oral calcium edta did the trick for my 3. blood work will come in next week. i will update when i get the blood results.

side note: i re-introduced vanilla to her partners-coco and shadow tonight. so far these is no fighting or squabbling. they are not crabbing or fussy like they were
just yesterday. what a big difference. i am glad it was caught in time.

ttl,
nancy
Posted By: Feather

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/11/11 01:12 PM

Great news Nancy!
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/11/11 06:32 PM

thank you. i count my blessings because i am one of the lucky ones.

sending prayers to everybody that has these sick babies.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 01:53 PM

Add me to the list of those affected by the wire cry

I picked up wire from Klubertanz back on June 24th of last year. I made 2 cages right away, but, the other cages weren't done until a couple months ago. The wire I bought was the 1/2" by 1" in 3 foot rolls, I bought a whole roll and a partial roll. The partial roll was good, but, the whole roll had a very distinct odor on it. It was all washed right away before making the cages and also at least twice more before putting the gliders in the cages with water & dawn. The cages were also steam cleaned at least once. I still have wire in the garage because I had planned to make travel cages and even a year later it still has a weird smell to it dunno

I had one glider start showing signs on Friday, she looked like either she hadn't been grooming or her mate had been over marking her (or both). Took her and all of my gliders to the vet for fecals - all were normal so the vet attributed it to the mate since there were no other symptoms. A couple hours later that morning I lost Amira who had shown no symptoms was dead. Later that night Miya started showing symptoms of lethargy so immediately went to the er vet where we got some sub Q fluids and a b12 shot. I was sent home with that to continue subQ fluids over the weekend as well, just small amounts and push fluids orally as she'll allow. I'm happy to say this morning she's showing improvement. The bad news is this morning I have also lost another glider who had shown absolutely no symptoms. He was fine when I went in to check everyone at 2am when I gave out yogies and 8 am rolls around and he's in the bottom of the cage gone cry cry cry

I have pulled everyone out of the cages I built and put my reptariums back up.
Posted By: Vicky

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 01:56 PM

Omg I am so sorry for your losses cry
Posted By: BCChins

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 02:39 PM

Becki I am sorry for your losses. I think you should try to push oral fluids and get them to eat as often as you can. You should wake them up every 2 hours and get them to take something. Offer Pedialyte with a touch of fruit juice in it to make them want to drink a lot. Flushing their systems is what helps the most. I am not a vet but have gone though this too. I also kept anyone who had symptoms in smaller cages to keep them from using too much energy in hopes they would use the energy to heal faster.
Posted By: Thumper

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 02:44 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your losses Becki. hug2 When I contacted Klubertanz they basically told me too bad. I was advised by them to contact their manufacturer who is Riverdale Mills.

I'm sorry for my delayed response but a lot has been going on here and I did lose my Skye on Friday. I came home from work and found her cold and lethargic at the bottom of her cage. I rushed her back to that same vet who gave her another injection of atropine and placed her on a warming pad. He let me hold her while we waiting to see how she responded. She was gone within 10 mins. I have since learned that the atropine probably wouldn't have helped her and being uncomfortable with the care she received I took the remaining 5 to a different vet yesterday. I'll copy and paste what I posted on another board.

Being unhappy with the care they received I took the remaining 5 to another vet. Since the treatment Nancy's vet gave to her gliders seems to be working I discussed it with my vet as well. She loved the idea of Calcium edta injections but had none in her office. She is checking with her colleagues and will call me in when she has it. They did receive an injection of Vitamin B-Complex. One glider (Dekota) also received subq fluids as he is worse than the others. His skin is also yellow like Skye's was but not quite as bad. I was sent home with Clavamox and she's also trying to find some sam-e which she will compound in her office and mix with cherry flavoring. These guys go back to the vet in a week for their recheck but will most likely be back in on Monday for the other injection. She also sent me home with supplies to subq and showed me how to do it.

She will also be calling Dr. Tristan on Monday just to see what his opinion is.

As of this morning my remaining 5 are doing okay for now.
Posted By: SGQ

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 05:47 PM

Becki~ your wire was almost a year old?

Does anyone else have issues or purchases dating farther back than Oct 2010? Does anyone know or heard of anything?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 06:23 PM

I'm so sorry Becki. hug2
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 06:30 PM

BeckiT, are the symptoms you experienced the same as what other people have posted? Yours seem different. All cases to this point have been wire/cages that was purchased after Oct. 2010, yours is before that. I would think that you would have seen symptoms a lot earlier if it were the wire causing them. I'm just speculating here, but I would have the vet look a little more into why your gliders died. I hope you sent them off for a necropsy to get some answers. I am so sorry for your loss!
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 06:36 PM

Also, I received an e-mail from Klubertanz. To answer my own question that I've asked here several times - the manufacturer of the PVC coated wire they sell, Riverdale, is aware of this situation.

Klubertanz further stated that as far as Riverdale is aware, there is no direct connection to the wire. They also stated that maybe in a few weeks, information will be more scientific. At this time, there is not much scientific data to analyze the cause. Hopefully in a few weeks, more will be known.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/12/11 09:54 PM

Hmmm, when I took my pair in, one was perfectly healthy, the other trembling and bobbing her head, and barely eating. She received a shot of D3 and some subq fluids in the office and I was sent home with orders to subq every 12 hours and oral calcium and an antibiotic every 12 as well. As of 10am when I left for work, my Giz was doing well in her hospital cage. She ate well last night so hopefully when I get out in a few hours we will continue to do well...
Posted By: Rocky_D

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/13/11 03:22 AM

Originally Posted By: BCChins
I think you should try to push oral fluids and get them to eat as often as you can. You should wake them up every 2 hours and get them to take something. Offer Pedialyte with a touch of fruit juice in it to make them want to drink a lot. Flushing their systems is what helps the most. I am not a vet but have gone though this too. I also kept anyone who had symptoms in smaller cages to keep them from using too much energy in hopes they would use the energy to heal faster.


This is great info for us, unfortunatly our vets have not been much help. Rocky spends most of his time in his pouch and is eating a small amount. He also seems scared of most every noise or movement. We pushed the pedialyte with apple juice just minutes ago and he drank alot. We placed the rest in a drinking cup for him. Thank you for posting this info, we will push more now that we have some idea how to treat him.
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/13/11 05:32 PM

Cici is still doing okay. I really hate having to stick her, though. frown Poor kid.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/15/11 02:52 PM

I have a survivor. My little girl (from PP unfortunately)did not seem to be thriving. She stopped growing and started looking like maybe her diet was not adequate for her (which i later learned it wasn't). And then the tremors started. Once she started actually showing symptoms her health deteriorated Very Very quickly. I didn't know what to do, since she is my first glider, so I just pushed fluids, fed her very soft concentrated foods, and kept her warm, the same as I would with other types of animals. I took her to the vet on the second day she was sick and he thought she had HLP, so he gave her calcium (dropps). I gave her drops every day, and she went to stay with my boyfriend and his glider. I did this in case she was lonely and that was one of the things that was making her sick. I am so glad I did this, because the end result was that she was put into another cage.

This was about 1.5 months ago. Peanut went from 27grams at her sickest to almost 60 as of yesterday. She has NO weakness in her hind end anymore, and she is back to her old antics, with no shaking. So physically and neurologically I would give her a 100%

I am so sorry that some of you guys have lost your babies to this. :-(
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 02:58 AM

Have any of the replacement cages caused problems??? I got the replacement cage from PP last Wednesday CoCo amd Delilah have been in that cage since that time and Delilah is still very wobbly and her coordination is awful. I am on my second round of meds with her at this point, and although she is definetly feeling better (she is doing her best to run around and glide...initially all she wanted to do was sleep and wouldn't eat, now she is) I am wondering about the symptoms she is continuing to have, she is very "jerky" with her movements?? Just want to make sure that she is ok< any advice is very appreciated!
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 03:11 AM

I will be honest with you about how I feel about this. There is no way I'd put my monkeys back in a pvc cage right now. While I respect PPP for turning around and sending out replacement cages, I have a really hard time, given the fact that they still don't know what's causing the problems, thinking about using another cage of the same material. How do we know it's not affected, as well?

So...me personally? I'd have them in something totally different.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 03:27 AM

I will be stopping at a petsmart or somewhere tomorrow, I need to find something big enough for them that is not going to make them sick or put them in danger. Any suggestions on where I can get a cage (at a store, so I can move them asap) that is ok for them. These are my first babies and I am still learning the ins and outs
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 03:48 AM

Are your gliders chewers? If not...you can get them a pop up dog kennel from Walmart...that would work until you find a good and suitable cage for them. If they chew, it won't work. Just make sure the bar spacing is no more than 1/2" and that it's either powder coated or epoxy.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 03:57 AM

They do like to chew....thank you so much, I will be cage shopping tomorrow smile
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 05:34 PM

Also, if you get a cage that is a bit on the small side from Petco (or where ever) it'd be okay for a few days until a bigger cage got to your home. Just as long as they aren't in a smaller cage for any extended period of time (I wouldn't leave them in longer than shipping time, IMO) they should be fine. I had to shove my quad in a dinky cage for a week until my new cage got here.

So if you can't find something big enough at a local store, don't stress too much! But definitely get another cage to put them in ASAP, even if it is, like I said, smaller. It'll be okay for a little while.

What meds do they have your girl on?

My Cici is still very uncoordinated, especially in her hind end, and is jerky with her movements too. I have my doubts that she'll ever get back to 100%, but I'm very happy that she's hanging in there and doing okay, everything considered.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 07:53 PM

She is on CAEDTA, 2 times a day. i question whether or not she will back to 100% too. Hopefully they are both ok soon
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/17/11 11:23 PM

Hrm, what is that? I haven't heard of it, but I'm not familiar with a lot.
Posted By: Pockets

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/18/11 03:26 PM

So sorry to hear of this & certainly hope the cause is found & corrected asap!
My very best to those glider's as well as their caretakers all animals suffering from this nightmare!

Wished for others to have a peek into this info even though it is a few years old - quite informative - Happy Birdy

A few quotes .....

A word to the wise ---
if you have a powder coated painted cage and it is not stainless Steel -- then get it tested. It does not
make any difference if you have a China made cage,
European made cage or any made cage… if it is
painted then get it tested. Your bird’s life is at
stake

A bird is NOT a human. A bird's system cannot
tolerate ANY lead. So - standards within the avian
community are set by the consumer as - ZERO toxins
in cage paint.
(I would think this is very sound advice for our gliders also)

Importers, distributors, and retailers advertise ALL
of their bird cages to be "Toxicin Free". The
manufactures of bird cages, parrot cages, monkey
cages and other pet cages advertise that their
baked on powder coated paint is non-toxic paint.

-----------------

I recieved link from an OZ friend to SunCoasts newsletter
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-111.htm
this morning in regards to their cages & wished
to also make others aware to the above information -

( I purchased my pvc coated 'reptile' cages
(was no glider cages back then)
in the 1990's & was lucky & have had no issues - very lucky,
same with my cockatoo cages although replaced one due to
the powder coating finish eroding.
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/18/11 06:16 PM

What you cited above are about painted/powder coated cages, not PVC cages. As far as I'm aware no cages or gliders have tested positive for any toxins, and without proof the problem is the cages there is no legal recourse. The various companies have been recalling and replacing, which is good! Well, some of the companies, anyway.
Posted By: Pockets

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/18/11 06:45 PM


Understand, but many animals have had serious health issues including death due to powder-coated cages as well.

Am just advising others to be careful selecting their glider's captive habitats & please be aware of the powder coated cages as well, they are not always quite as safe as people think - research as much as possible.
Posted By: kittybaran

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/22/11 04:17 PM

I had klubertanz wire and rools now sits in my back yard because they are toxic! I lost 9 gliders due to their cages and 4 are on chemo for cancer bebetween 2008 and 2010. When told of the problem they did not even apologize nor offer any sympathy. I can't sell the wire, or throw it away in case someone should find it and use it for some other animal. Klubertanz has cost me over 35 thousand dollars in vet bills.
Posted By: Thumper

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/22/11 04:45 PM

I got the same response from Klubertanz. Sending you a pm.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/22/11 05:00 PM

has anybody talked to a lawyer abt. what is going on here.
35,000.00 lost in gliders and vet bills and everybody else
that have lost their gliders or still have sick ones.
seems to me a good lawyer could do something about this- as a class action suit.

on another note to all the still wobbly glider owners out there.
please ask your vet abt. getting a calcium edta shot-it takes out metal poisioning, b12 shots and fluid flushed and oral calcium edta to be taken at home for at least a week.

my trio of gliders had all the symptoms and after this one treatment by my vet and the oral for a week, they are fine and running up their toys and gliding again. being healty gliders.
my vet has seen alot of metal poisioning in birds from cages
and knew what to do immediately, it worked.

take care,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: Thumper

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/22/11 05:35 PM

I do have a call into my attorney but I'm not so sure it's going to go anywhere on my end. I did expect more from Klubertanz since their customer service was always so great. It's very disappointing.

The treatment that worked for Nancy's gliders also seems to be working for mine. Mine did not get the oral calcium edta to take at home though. My vet felt too much of it can damage the kidneys. I do have one with yellow skin so he has some liver damage. The symptoms from the toxin in the wire seems to be passing. All my affected gliders are getting SAM-e & subq'd daily and the one with obvious liver damage is also getting milk thistle daily.
Posted By: fox0r

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/22/11 07:09 PM

My Cici hasn't changed so much. She is still really unbalanced in the back end. She has been eating better, though, and seems to be as much of herself as she can be. She has some problems walking around but she seems to be able to climb fine. I'm not so sure she's going to improve anymore.

I've been having a lot of problems with my back lately and been laid up in bed for the most part. Once I heal enough where I can get around a bit easier I think I'll take her back in and see what the vet says. I'll ask about the calcium shot, too.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/22/11 07:14 PM

jen that is a calcium edta injection just not calcium.
wanted you to know there is a big difference.

hope your baby gets better.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/23/11 03:07 AM

Just here to say I am praying for all affected glider kids and their families to get well FAST!! Bobbi, am praying for your babies and Nancy too. ((((HUGS))))
Posted By: Thumper

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/23/11 03:27 AM

Aww thank you Bridget! Dekota is still hanging in there with me. He even gained 2 grams this week! Don't get too excited though...I'm hand feeding his staple. We are all thinking of you here too. You get yourself better. If you're up at midnight on a Monday call me. HUGS smile
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/28/11 07:16 PM

Cages are being shipped from Martin's. Those of you getting replacement cages should begin to receive your notifications. smile
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/28/11 09:36 PM

i got an email from martins today, addressed to brandy i/o
my name, so i emailed them back to make sure they are sending the new cage to my address.

i am also concerned that these new powder coated cages
are from the same wire supplier, i would think not after
all this. i am still afraid to put any gliders in the new
cage, very paranoid at this time with cages.

has anybody received replacement cages from martins yet?

regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. called the vet again yesterday for coco's blood work results and it still is not back
from the lab.
Posted By: Midien

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/29/11 02:06 PM

I emailed Martin's after reading that they were sending out new cages, and they said I should get a tracking number later today. They said the new cages are the exact same style and size as the previously purchased cages. That leads me to wonder if it is the same wire, but powder coated instead of PVC coated.

Do we know if the testing was done on the wire? (It's been a long time since I read through ALL these threads, and can't remember, though I do remember mention of tests of something coming back negative?) My worry is whether the wire itself is safe underneath that powder coating. I'd LOVE to put the babies in the bigger cage, but don't want them to get hurt. D:

Short of that, is there a way to have our individual cages tested, or would that be insanely complicated/expensive?
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/29/11 02:09 PM

My cage will be arriving today, it's on the truck for delivery.
Posted By: jimbo

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/29/11 04:45 PM

I know there is a way to get cage paint tested for toxic metals, but not sure that helps with the PVC issue...

The best way to find a local lab if you live in a metropolitan area is probably the phone book (they usually don't have web sites); also many are associated with Colleges if you have one near you.

The pricing we have experienced is "per toxic element tested for", with each being $30 or so. So if you test for Lead, Zinc, Arsenic, Cadmium, Chromium, Mercury, and Selenium, this full test = 7 x $30 = $210. Test for Lead only, maybe $30, but we have never done that so not sure. I guess it depends on how "deep" you want the testing to be.

SunCoast has our powder-coated cages tested at a lab that specializes in testing for animal issues. You can see a sample report on black HQ powder-coated cage paint here:

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/images/store/blk-2011.pdf

On the PVC cages, I don't think anyone knows, specifically, what the exact mechanism is that is causing these problems. So getting one of these PVC cages tested would be more of "hunt" to find toxic sources, and so probably more expensive. Perhaps people could donate to one of the glider non-profits to get a test done at an animal tox lab like the one we use.
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/30/11 07:21 AM

Thanks for posting that report (what a great idea)
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 06/30/11 05:41 PM

I don't believe the cage issues is a "metal" issue. I believe it is some chemical used in the processing of the pvc that is toxic. With all plastics, there is the risk that the process used in manufacturing will leave behind residue that is harmful. But without knowing the processes being used, how would the average "lab" know what to look for?

The manufacture of the toxic pvc coated wire WOULD know and should be held responsible for all the testing (by independent labs) and should be stepping up to make things right for those that have had effected gliders (replacement cages from a trusted source, vet bills, as well as the cost of the animals AND emotional damages). This would take a law suit to achieve I'm afraid.

Jimbo, thank you for your reassurances that Sun Coast is doing what they can to insure the protection and safety for the gliders.
Posted By: Vicky

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/01/11 10:14 PM

Some news from another forum, I don't have any information besides this:

Quote:
i got a voicemail from diane at martins, she told me the 14 or more REPLACEMENT cages they just sent out,
including my new one i got yesterday are bad, she said the coating was bad and that martins has sent me
out another new cage today and now i have 2 bad cages to send them. this is very upsetting, how many new
cages are out there that are again bad?

she sent me an email but i havent read it yet as i am at work.

this new problem as i know some people got new cages from martins and have
their gliders in them already and if martins forgets to call or contact any body more gliders will be in harms way.

thank you.
back to work.

_________________
take care,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: Srlb

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/01/11 11:10 PM

Ok these cages are NOT TOXIC folks so we need to let everyone know that is NOT the issue with these cages.

The issue is the folks that do the powder coating left out a step in the process. This will allow the coating to *flake and fall* off with the easiest of touches.

So please, do not think they are toxic, that is NOT the case here.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 12:36 AM

Thanks for posting the explanation Peggy. I was thinking..."Not again!"
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 02:03 AM

finally got to read the email from martins and am glad to
hear it is a powder coating issue.

didnt know the details at work because i didnt have access
to my email.

so all seems to be ok.

thanks peggy.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 04:49 AM

Yes...let's please not panic here!

Diana is absolutely beside herself right now. She's angry, she's sad and doesn't know if she should scream or cry. Martin's has used the same powder coating facility for years! This time was no exception and they have always done a good job for them. However, somewhere along the way this time, there were a select number of panels that were not properly coated. They are not a hazard to gliders and are NOT TOXIC. Fortunately, only a small number of these improperly coated cages went out so they're issuing replacements and all will be well.

thumb
Posted By: wildlifeangel

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 05:40 AM

I'm not sure if this is needed or not... but the tremors I have seen discussed sound like seizures. I have a glider that was having seizures, and my vet prescribed valium for the seizures. The valium helped a LOT... and it might help to prevent permanent damage to the brain from seizures. My vet also informed me that there is a condition called "brain shock" in which an animal seems to be neurologically damaged, but they recover over time.
Posted By: Vicky

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 06:04 AM

Glad it was just a coating issue and everyone's babies will be just fine. laugh
Posted By: DCMuffin

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Vicky
Glad it was just a coating issue and everyone's babies will be just fine. laugh


Yep...everything will be just fine! smile
Posted By: Rocky_D

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 05:00 PM

We received our replacement cage on June 30. We cleaned it up good and let it dry over night before putting it together. On July 1 we received an email telling us not to put the cage together because some of the panels may not be properly coated. The email stated a new replacement, replacement cage was being shipped out on July 1 and instructions to place the original PVC cage and the new replacement cage in the box the replacement cage came in and return via Fed X with return label provided and we would receive a tracking number for the new replacement, replacement cage later that day. Later on July 1 we received a phone call from Martins telling us of the panel situation and for us not to put the replacement cage together until we looked it over good to make sure we had none of the bad panels and if we did have bad panels to contact them and they would ship the new replacement, replacement cage out on July 5.

Our story began in March when both of our gliders were affected by the PVC cage. One (Taz) died after a trip to the emergency vet. The other (Rocky) started showing the same signs the next day and was seen by our regular vet. Rocky was placed in a hospital cage so we could better monitor his progress while we administered the meds. When Rocky began to show improvement he was returned to the PVC cage. In May we decided to replace Taz and found another young male (Oscar). During the introductions it looked like Rocky was not going to let Oscar stay with him so we decided to buy another cage from Martins just in case. When we attempted to order the new cage it was shown as 'out of stock'. We sent a message to Martins inquiring when they would have them back in stock. The next day we got the response about the issue with the cages and to remove them from the cage if they began to show the signs. By the time we returned home from work Rocky was showing the signs again. We returned him to the hospital cage and started the meds again. Unfortunately for us all our vet knew was that a virus had affected the east coast glider community and that only 50% were surviving (this was in March 2011) the meds we received were anti-inflammatory and calcium supplements to be given orally twice daily for 5 days only.

We purchased a flight cage from a local pet store where Oscar stayed until Rocky started feeling better. When we restarted introductions Oscar was the aggressor so Rocky was returned to the hospital cage. We are afraid that Oscar senses something is wrong with Rocky and wants nothing to do with him.

With the new replacement cage not having any bad panels we put it together and will attempt reintroductions again in the new cage.

Our $300.00 glider investment has turned into well over $1,000.00 with the purchase of additional gliders (Taz and Oscar) and cages. Our vet bills alone have been over $750.00. Emotional stress from the death of Taz and the near death of Rocky is immeasurable.

We know we are not alone in this saga and that many have suffered, both glider and human. We feel that Martins should have notified us, as soon as they pulled the cages from sale inventory, of concern for the health of some gliders. This would not have saved Taz but could have prevented a relapse for Rocky.

Has Martins admitted partial responsibility with the free replacement of the PCV coated cages they sell? Can we absorb the needless expense we've incurred? Is it right to ask us to? I know the glider community is not a 'rich' community and we struggle to give our gliders the best we can. For us to be exposed to these needless expenses hurts.

Thank you for reading our ramblings, once we got started our feelings took over.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: Update on cages and recall -PART THREE - 07/02/11 05:16 PM

See PART FOUR
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