GliderCENTRAL

HELP~ Glider is seizing

Posted By: Anonymous

HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:30 AM

Jorn, my 6 month old male is seizing... I took him to the vet, and they did a fecal, but didn't find anything. They don't know of any other tests they can do for him. They gave him some sort of anti-seizure meds, and they aren't helping. Do any of you know of anything I can tell my vet to do that may help my baby?
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:32 AM

Is there anything he could have gotten into or eaten? Did they do a urinalysis??

I'm going to put out a yell for help and see if we can get you some more ideas..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:35 AM

There really isn't any way he could have gotten into anything he wasn't supposed to in the past few days even. I have only had him in tent time. During the last call to the vet, they hadn't gotten a sample for a urinalysis, but they may have by now
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:37 AM

hmmm, I am going to put out a yell for help, I'm all out of ideas frown
Posted By: Mel2mdl

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:43 AM

Can calcium defiency cause seisures?
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:49 AM

If he is on a diet using those certain vitamins that I am so against, according to the person who wrote the article on them, they can cause siezures.
What diet is your glider on?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:49 AM

I'm not sure. I feed him Pricilla's diet with the vitamins every day. plus he gets the monkey biscuits and dry food during the day
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:51 AM

here is a good article on seizers in gliders
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:51 AM

Don't fret. Those weren't the vitamins I was talking about.
Though I must confess I have no idea what are in those vitamins. I doubt that's the cause.

Where did you come across this little fella? It could be something genetic carried by one of his parents. When did the siezures first start?
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:03 AM

Oh Laura, I'm so sorry. Hmm, try to get ahold of Jen (xfilefan) I will go find her number for you, hold on.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:05 AM

He came from Queenduck. I got him last December. They started some time this morning. I noticed he was up rather late this morning (around 11), so i fed him some extra food, and while i was watching him, he had a seizure. I called the vet, and she met me at the office. He has gone down hill since
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:06 AM

Here's Jen's number. Call her, she won't mind. If she don't have an answer she will get you in contact with Charlie & Mary or Bourbon. Is he still seizing?

Jen: H 435-783-6097 C 435-640-9438
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:18 AM

she (the vet) called about an hour ago, and he was still seizing every hour.
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:21 AM

Call Jen!!!
Posted By: Ellen

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:22 AM

It could possible be a liver injury.You need to get to a Vet ASAP. Please find a vet that can take care of him. Most Vets have a small animal hand book they can go by.
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:25 AM

Ellen, Jorn is with the vet right now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:30 AM

oh no, poor Laura... She loves her babies soo much.. I hope everything is ok, or at minimum its something that can be controlled with meds.
Posted By: GliderLove

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:35 AM

hug2 laura, my prayers are with you and Jorn. I hope they figure out what's wrong with him soon! I'll be watching for updates!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:40 AM

I just got a call from the vet. He has quit seizing, at least since the last time i talked to her. But he is still VERY weak, and not really eating or taking anything voluntarily. I asked her to keep pushing the fluids at the very least. She is mixing the yogurt juice and pedialyte for fluids. I'm not sure what else to tell her to do for him. We don't have any vets around here that are overly experienced in gliders. So we are pretty much working hand in hand with my little experience and knowledge from here.
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:45 AM

CALL JEN!!! CALL JEN!!! CALL JEN!!!
Posted By: GliderLove

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:46 AM

Oh that's a good sign atleast. Did you ever get ahold of Jen? She really helped me out with Popeye. Where are located at? I am wondering how far you might be from my old glider vet, they were AWESOME, i wish I was back in Illinois. They are called Midwest Exotics.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:48 AM

I'm in the dead center of the state... Where is the vet located?
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:50 AM

Call Jen.
Unless you've already tried.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:50 AM

i tried jen. the guy (i forgot his name) said she isn't availble right now
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:51 AM

My usual sites aren't working, which is odd.
Get ahold of as many experienced people as you can. I wish I could help you more, but I don't know enough to do much.
=(
I'm sorry.
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:52 AM

Okay, then we need to find someone with Bourbon or Mary's number. Let me see what I can find.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:00 AM

Cindy, I'm about 4 hours south of Chicago, so unfortunately that won't work.... But i did just call my vet and gave her the number for them... hoping they can give her a little more insight... She is up trying to feed him every hour she said, and not to hesitate to call her to check on him if i am up. He has at least quit seizing after i suggested the juice and pedialyte mixed.... I'm starting to think maybe he is hypoglycemic.....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:02 AM

Has the vet given subq fluid? Either D5W or sweet ringers lactate?

Suggies will seize if they are dehydrated or if their blood sugar gets too low.

Subq is the best way to handle the problem.

Honey water by mouth will supply glucose which goes directly to the brain to off set the neurological consequences of the low blood sugar.

Sweet ringers contains electrolytes which help to balance the system.

The suggie should be evaluated for calcium deficiency, parasites and infections.

Prophylactic treatment with a broad spectrum antibiotic should be considered.

Make sure the suggie is kept warm.

We are keeping you in our prayers.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:12 AM

Angel, Thank you! Yes she is doing sub-q fluids, and pushing the yogurt baby juice and pedialyte (50/50) by mouth at least every hour by my suggestion... Once she started doing the juice mixture, the seizures stopped... I am thinking it may have been a problem with dehydration (although i checked thier water this morning, and it was fine) or low blood sugar, or a combo of both.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:18 AM

What fluid is she giving subq?

Normal saline has no sugar in it... D5W and sweet ringers do contain sugars....

I would add a little honey to the juice/pedialyte mixture....the glucose is absorbed directly from the lining of the mouth and stomach and sent to the brain....no digestion necessary...it is fast relief.

The vet might want to look at measures to prevent swelling of the brain...solumedrol type medications in humans....I dont know what is used in suggies....probably some sort of similar medication...both dehydration and low blood sugar can lead to swelling in the brain.

Will keep you in our prayers.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:19 AM

Laura, have your vet call mine. Dr. Tristan at 361-994-1145

He will do a phone consult with her. He is very knowledgable on gliders.
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:23 AM

Okay, I got Laura on the phone with Bourbon and they are calling Peggy & Alicia. So hopefully we can save this baby. Thank you to all the people that I bothered for phone numbers. I will write all these numbers down so I have them for any other emergencies.
Posted By: Kitkatt1216

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:27 AM

sending thoughts and prayers for this little guy hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 05:09 AM

going back in. His cage mate has started the same thing at a lesser degree
Posted By: Cora

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 05:15 AM

Oh No................Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your babies!!!!
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 05:26 AM

Srlb, laura and myself, had discussed many things, the female cage mate also started having seizures, she is rushing her into the vets as well, we do hope with all the tests, that something is found. The good thing is the hydration levels seem to be up at this time, all the rest of her gliders SEEM to be fine. so hopefully whatever it is, is localized in the one cage.

As we told Laura, the possibilities are endless as to actually pin point the cause of this, we are hoping that the various testing can help. She also is going to have her vet contact dr Tristan, for a consult.

Laura, know our prayers are with you, and all of us are awaiting the updates.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 06:10 AM

With a second suggie involved I am sure the vet will look at infectious agents...and Dr Tristan is a great suggie vet...

Take a close look at the environment for any source of toxins...a new toy or cage furnishing....a spider in or near the cage....a bug that may have been exposed to a pesticide...

pesticides of any sort are always suspect...has a neighbor exterminated recently or had a yard treatment? could a poisoned bug have wandered into their cage?

carbon monoxide from a heating system...is their cage closer to a vent than the other cages...or at a different level in the room...different gasses rise and fall and settle to form oxygen poor areas...carbon monoxide is a silent, odorless killer....and frequently causes seizures...

make sure the water bottle works...just because it has water in it does not mean they can get the water out...sometimes the little ball in the tube can get stuck and no water will come out.....

has a piece of food been hidden somewhere in the cage and grown mold...some are very toxic...

is there any algae growing in the water? some produce neurotoxins....

None of these are common happenings....but....they have all happened to someone....

look closely and think hard...

We are keeping you in our prayers..
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 07:08 AM

Sorry, Laura-I was at a movie with my sons-husband just told me I had a call here at home a few minutes ago frown . Don't know why he didn't call my cell I had with me.

I agree that with both seizing, they were most likely exposed to some thing, somehow. Angel gave you a very good list of things to check. Also...what do you use for bedding and could they have possibly got into that? Look over all their toys and see if any thing is chewed. Think of ALL foods, and anything they might not have had before. I'd also check any dry foods-with some of the dog/cat food ingredients being tainted lately-some ingredients (such as those to make monkey biscuits) could have common suppliers, though I would hope that's not the case. Check expiration dates, and look for any discolorations that might hint at mold or something. I hope the vet has some insight.

Watching for update
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 07:58 AM

Laura asked that I update everyone, to let you all know that Jorn don't make it, upon returning from the vet Logan was found passed in his cage, the vet is keeping Lilly, and extensive testing and a necropsy tomorrow on Jorn and testing on Lilly. None of the others at this time are showing any signs or symptoms. please keep her and her gliders in your prayers, she will update tomorrow, tonight she is going to get some sleep as tomorrow is going to be a long day.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 08:04 AM

I am so sorry for your loss. I hope Lilly gets better hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 08:12 AM

Thanks for the update, Bourbon. Lots of thoughts and prayers being sent.

I'm very sorry for your loss. hug2 hug2 I hope the vet is able to find the cause for your other baby.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 12:34 PM

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and prayers. Lily did make it through the night, and is attempting to eat on her own.... Which is a good sign. When i got up this morning, I thought i was looking at a ghost. Logan was in his cage. This "beast" didn't take him, but took Trinity instead. Everyone else is looking great and acting fine, no "quaking" or lack of appetite in any of them. I have taken samples of anything and everything i can think of into the vet to have her check for any toxins. I took a sample of my mealworm farm in, but on the suggestion of Bourbon last night, I will be taking the rest of it in. We are afraid that this may be from aflatoxin, which would explain why it is hit and miss with my gliders. I will be getting a black light today to see if i can detect aflatoxin in their feces or in the mealie farm. If we make it through this, i will never ever feed another bug to my gliders. This is horrible. I am completely helpless and so are my babies. it is awful to come in and see my babies seizing like they were, and to find Trinity dead in the kitchen like that was AWFUL. I'm just hoping that we will figure out what this is, so that we can fix it!

Thank you to Bourbon, Peggy, Jen, Lynsie, Alicia, and everyone else that has been helping me through this. You all have no idea how much i appreciate your help. Cross your fingers and throw your prayers out for Lily that we can still save her. Again, thank you to everyone that has kept us in your thoughts and prayers... Lets hope this nightmare is almost over.
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 01:45 PM

cry Laura, I'm so sorry, I know how much you love your gliders and I can't imagine what you're going through right now!! The first thing I asked in IM last night was if you had ever fed crickets, thinking it was possible aflatoxins, didn't think about the mealies frown Call me if you need to talk! heart and hug2 s
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 01:51 PM

Awwwh.. Laura, I've never had a glider of my own, so I must confess that I can't relate to the pain you must be feeling right now. All I can say is keep a very close watch over your gliders. If you have to go to work, consider asking someone else to keep an eye on them. I'm sure that whatever is taking your babies will be stopped with all of the help and support that others have given you. I am deeply, deeply sorry for your loss. No one deserves to go through that but you definitely did all that you could and I'll keep praying for you and the rest of your gliders. God bless.

&#9829;(<3)
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:26 PM

Oh Laura, I am so very sorry. I cannot even imagine. I hope they can give you an answer, at least. Please keep us posted on how Lilly is doing and what they find out. Prayers going out.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:30 PM

Laura- please let me know if you need a friend to talk to. I am sending lots of love and hugs to you. I will be praying for Lily.

hug2 heart hug2 heart hug2 heart hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:36 PM

I'm so sorry for your loss. Sending hugs hug2 for you and prayers for the rest of the little ones.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 02:42 PM

I dropped off the mealie farm, and they are doing the necropsy on jorn today. They are running a boat load of tests on Lily today, as well as aflatoxin tests on 3 different sources of food (mealie bedding, dry food, monkey biscuits) they are also running diagnostic tests on the sample of Pricilla's diet that i took in to see if something i mixed in there may have been tainted. Lily was still quaking, but she is fighting this with every bit of her existance.

There are some tests out there that milling companies use to test their grains, and after the dog/cat food scare, the vets office ordered a bunch of several different tests they can run on pet foods to check for these types of things. We just have to wait a few hours for some of the test results to come back. So right now I am just playing the waiting game on all of this, and praying that it is some sort of bacterial infection. At least that is curable....
Posted By: KimeyDiann

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:16 PM

I'm so so sorry to hear of your loss. gangel Just thinking of what you are going through brings tears to my eyes. upset
I wish there was something I could do to help. dunno
I'm sending you lots of love and hugs and you will be in my thoughts at all times!
hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2
heart heart heart heart heart
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:21 PM

They'll catch what it is soon, Laura. It sounds like they're doing everything they can. I'm sure it won't be long now. The sooner they find out what it is, the sooner they can treat it properly. I'm sure Lily will be okay. She sounds like a real fighter; she's not giving up. I tried looking up information on siezures and nothing I found seemed to make sense.
But I'm sending a big hug your way, and lots of love. Keep us updated. We're all thinking of you.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:22 PM

Thank you to everyone that is sending their thoughts and prayers.... I'm on the verge of breaking down after all of this.... I have a friend sitting at home keeping an eye on my other babies while i am at work. I have the vet keeping me updated on Lily and the test results on an hourly basis. She is still holding on somehow. I have to stay strong for the rest of my babies.... Its just so hard not knowing anything at this point. It leaves me feeling completely helpless.

I am supposed to care for these babies and keep them safe and healthy. We do our best to provide for our babies, and then something like this happens and leaves you second guessing every little thing you do. What happened to my babies may have been completely out of my control, but until we figure out what caused this, I can't really do anything to help the rest, if there is anything i can do for the others at all... Sorry I'm rambling now. I'm just so lost....
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:36 PM

Laura, I have heard some very good things about you in the short time that I've been here. Several people have mentioned that you love your little ones dearly, and I can see that you'd truely to anything to keep them safe. You've been a fantastic glider mommy as far as I can see. You got them proper care right away, you called numbers, you're having tests done on your Lily and her food, you're doing everything you can. If she doesn't make it, atleast you tried. You're doing everything you possibly can, and that's what counts in a good pet owner.
I hope that Lily comes home safe and sound. I'm confident that she will. The vet will find out what's going on soon. Just don't give up.
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:45 PM

cry cry cry Laura, I am so sorry. I don't even know what to say. This is so hard for me. I hope you find what is causing this so that the rest of your gliders make it. hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: BCChins

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 03:56 PM

Laura I just want you to know we are all thinking of your glider's and you. Please know you are not a bad glider Mommy and you are doing everything possible for them. I am sorry you lost 2 of them. Big Hugs are coming your way.

Hang in there.

Hugs



Posted By: GliderLove

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 04:27 PM

Hi Laura,

I am sorry I didn't get back to you in your thread last nite, I have a long distance call and had to run out. I sure hope your little ones make it ok. I know you said you 4 hours south of chicago, so these clinics would be about 3 1/2 if you ever need to go there.

1) Animal 911 2)Midwest Exotics
3735 w.Dempster 7510 W. North Ave.
Skokie,Ill. Elmwood Park,Ill.
847-673-9110 708-453-4755

I always went to Midwest exotics when I lived in Illinois.
I have a friend that was a breeder for 10 yrs, she said you should try feeding atleast 75% pure protein(like jarred baby meat) diluted with some gatoraide or pedialyte, with a syringe in small amounts. She really could not make a diagnosis either with out knowing more information. She is also willing to talk with you if you wanted. I know there is tremndous support here as well. Her oldest glider passed last year at 17 and her son that she bred from him lived to be 14. She knows her stuff, she has helped me a ton. Anyways I just thought I would let you know. hug2 Hang in there!
Posted By: Usha77

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 05:01 PM

I am so sorry you are going through this Laura. I am sending tons of prayers and hug2 your way.
Posted By: Gossamer

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 07:05 PM

Laura,

I am so sorry to hear about this. I can't even imagine how you are feeling right now. It is very scary what is happening to your babies. Was there any type of pesticide spraying in your area?
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 07:11 PM

Any updates on Lilly? Prayers continue.
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 07:15 PM

at noon she was still hanging in there, and she hadn't heard from the vet at 2 when I last talked to her, so Laura's hoping no news is good news..
Posted By: Carrie T

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 07:55 PM

Sending thoughts and prayers your way Laura. heart hug2 hug2 heart
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 07:58 PM

If she was doing worse, I'm sure the vet would've contacted her. But nobody deserves to go through this.
=(
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 08:18 PM

So sorry :'(
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 08:22 PM

Laura I know this is a very tough day for you, you have no time to mourn the loss of your Jorn and Trinity, as you are so worried about Lilly and the remaining gliders, please know our prayers and sympathies are with you throughout all of this. If you need someone to yell and scream at just call..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 10:33 PM

You will never believe this. Talked to the vet.... actually drove over there to check on my baby. They said it was aflatoxin
.... But Lily is RECOVERING! She is gaining her coordination back, eating from a syringe and everything! They sent her home, since there really is nothing they can do for her. I have to keep her in my shirt or on a heating pad to regulate her body temp, but she is alive and seems to be doing MUCH better!

Is there a possiblity that she will recover from this? Bourbon, please PM me your number, or call my cell... I tried the number that came up on my caller id, and they acted like i am nuts, lol

All the other gliders are doing fine too.... No signs in them what so ever... I pulled them all out one by one, and we are doing good!
Posted By: Xglider

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 10:39 PM

Scrooling back up to see what the pellets are ...



Edit ... i do not see that you indicated what they are ...
so sorry for your loss, glad you have one healing and now know what the issue was .... can you let us know what the pellets are..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 10:41 PM

Glad to here Lily is doing better. Do they know what caused the alfatoxin?
Posted By: Mel2mdl

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 10:47 PM

I'm so sorry for your loss, but glad to hear that Lily came home. She is my prayers, as are you - hope she is able to pull through. I'm glad to hear that none of your other babies seem to have this!

Where did the aflatoxins come from? Do you know?
Posted By: Kitkatt1216

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 11:20 PM

So glad to here Lily is pulling through, and sorry about the loss of your other babies. Will be sending thoughts you way today for a full recovery.
Posted By: Shuttershade

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 11:51 PM

Awwwh that's great!
=D
I'm glad to hear she is doing better. I hope she continues to improve. What a good glider mom you are.
=)
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/21/07 11:56 PM

Laura...they can slow it down, but they can't stop it. Bourbon will know which meds to ask for. The damage can't be undone and the toxin cannot be eliminated from the body. You may want to try daily milk thistle to improve liver function, among others. This kills the liver over time, among other things-its a very nasty, very slow moving and insidious toxin. I'm so sorry for your babies that didn't make it. hug2 hug2 I hope Lily continues to improve.

Here's a few links on Aflatoxins (or Aspergillis fungi) to sort of give an understanding of what it is, and what it does.

http://www.aflatoxin.info/aflatoxin.asp

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/aflatoxin/aflatoxin.html#Aflatoxicosis

http://wellvet.com/aflatoxins.html

And this one has a link for a possible antidote, and supportive care:

http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/aflatoxins.html

^ B...I think this is the one you were asking me about-I just found it again.

Slow deterioration of the liver is going to be the gliders biggest battle, if any others were exposed. The milk thistle is what Chronos took to help improve his liver function.

My vet also mentioned a drug called Urekelin (and I don't know if that's spelled right) to thin the bile, and make it easier for the body to process-I'm not sure if that applied to the gall bladder primarily though, so you'd want to ask a vet.

Another herbal compound he mentioned that we thought of trying to also work directly on the liver and improve function was called SamE.

I can't give dosages, as like any other med they need to be based on weight, but if you want to try them, and your vet is willing, here's my vet's number for consult:

Parrish Creek Veterinary Clinic
Dr. Douglas Folland
86 N 70 W
Centerville, UT 84014
801-298-2213

Also note that these can't 'fix' the damage...it can improve performance of the organ, make the glider more comfortable, and hopefully extend life.

Do they know which food was the source of the fungus?
Posted By: Gossamer

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 12:07 AM

wow. I hope they can figure out what it is from. I would think if it was from the food, All of your gliders would have been infected. I hope Lily continues to do well.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 12:13 AM

Not necessarily. If it was in the biscuits, there may have been spots of it, and some may not have ingested the actual mold or spores. This can play hit and miss, though with a common food source all of them are at risk.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:27 AM

OK, Here I go.... I am going to try to keep this as professional and unemotional as possible after going through what i have in the past 36 hours... Please excuse the spelling....

Last night lily took a turn for the worse. I told Bourbon and Peggy, as I was on the phone with them when i noticed her. They had me take in EVERYTHING i possibly could to have tests run. I took in the mealie farms, the pellets, the vitamins, the remainder of the diet batch... Everything. They ran multiple tests on all of this. They are doing a necropsy on Jorn for actual results of the cause of his death.

Preliminary results showed level 4 traces of aflatoxin in the pellets(level 20 will kill a cow). The pellets i had were called Premium Sugar Glider Diet (or Sugar Glider Cereal) and manufactured by Briskys. I am not sure where the pellets became infected with aflatoxin. It could have been at the manufacturer, the packaging company, the distributor, at my home, or in transit from one place to another. We don't know, and I WILL NOT place blame on anyone for this. I had them stored in the fridge, and have been feeding them since i got them. I am posting this to help anyone else that may be experiencing problems with these pellets, not to bash anyone.

There are not currently any tests that we know of that can prove that a glider has aflatoxosis. There is no cure, the only thing we can do is regulate their diet eliminating as much fat and iron as possible. All of my gliders are being put on a special diet, that does not include any insects or traditional treats.

At this point, we don't know if lily is going to make it. She cannot regulate her body temperature, so I have to keep her warm at all times. We don't even know if she will ever be able to regulate her temperature again. I have been hand feeding her every hour to watch how she is doing... So far so good. She does get ansy with me, and wants to go play, but after only a few minutes, she is ice cold again, and I have to warm her back up. I am working on devizing an incubator to put in her cage to give her the best of both worlds... I may in the long run, have to build her a special cage that holds heat more like a terrarium to help regulate her body temperature, but that is down the road when we will know more about what her ultimate outcome will be.

This demon has taken two of my beloved babies... I WILL NOT let it take any more lives. I refuse to give into this thing.

I would like to thank all of you for your help, prayers and thoughts. You have all been there for me when i hit rock bottom. I thank you sooo much! You all mean the world to me. The next few weeks for all of my gliders will be touch and go. Please keep them in your prayers!
Posted By: fliptout

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:28 AM

what are the vitamins that you think are bad?
Posted By: Holly1221

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:44 AM

heart && hug2 && more sent your way to you && your little ones
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:46 AM

Fliptout-it's not the vitamins (it would be whichever ones are used with Priscilla Price's diet)...she was just saying she took EVERYTHING to find a source. Here is the culprit so far:

Quote:
Preliminary results showed level 4 traces of aflatoxin in the pellets(level 20 will kill a cow). The pellets i had were called Premium Sugar Glider Diet (or Sugar Glider Cereal) and manufactured by Briskys.


Laura, you know all our prayers are with your little ones. Please read my post earlier, and see if those meds might be able to help (aflatoxins do affect the liver, and it's what those help with). Keep us updated on your babies, and thank you for the information. hug2
Posted By: fliptout

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:52 AM

ok thank you so much
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 03:15 AM

Thank you all for being there for me. If it wasn't for this board, Lily would be gone, as I am sure the rest of my babies would be too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 03:26 AM

Laura, I can only imagine how terrifing,overwelming and heart-breaking this is for you. I'm terribly, terribly, sorry. We are all here for you, so please lean on us. You will NEVER cry alone!! ~Stac
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 03:42 AM

It's my understanding, from asking some questions just now, that at Level 4, this very, very likely came with the food. That is a LOT of toxin. I would let Brisky's know...and is there a chance you can post the numbers off the packaging you have (or the vet has)?

Know that the aflatoxin is the byproduct of the fungus...not the fungus itself.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 03:50 AM

I am so sorry for your losses.....and we are keeping you in our prayers....

Is your vet notifying Brisky's and the appropriate gov agencies so that product testing can be done and product recalls issued if necessary?

You are very right that the contamination could have occurred anywhere in the food production, storage or delivery chain.

However, you now know that the fungus that produces aflatoxin has most likely been in your fridge......For the safety of you and your family, I would remove all food from the fridge, and discard any that is not tightly sealed.....and disinfect the entire interior of the fridge....making sure to get all little cracks and crevasses and hidden areas.... the fungus will survive in the fridge....foods should be tightly sealed to prevent cross contamination...foods that will be stored for more than a few days should be frozen....

The fungi that produce aflatoxins are very common in our environment.... have you ever opened an ear of corn and seen that the end of it was pink?.....or found a pink scum in the bottom of the fridge...under the produce drawer?....that is the fungus that produces aflatoxin....

on the other hand if you open the ear of corn and there are little worms in it .....it is probably ok....lol....it is the pink fungus that produces the aflatoxin...so dont eat the pink corn...

Please keep us posted on Lilly's condition....

I have put you on our prayer tree...

Godspeed

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 04:05 AM

Is the "Primium Sugar Glider Diet" the stuff sold by exotic nutriton...and I only thought that they made it? - or does it just have the same name?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 04:10 AM

I am very sorry that you had to go through this, just know Lily has a great suggie mommy who is doing everything possible for her. You did a great thing by going to the vet and putting them before your wallet (I'm pretty sure that wasn't very cheap) if only more people were so caring.

Keeping you in thoughts and prayers, along with all your little ones.
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 06:02 AM

Yes it is probably the Exotic Nutrition, she purchased it from someone else that repackaged it, so she does not have the lot numbers.

here are some links , to help you understand the aflatoxins better

Aflatoxins
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/115623/page/88#Post115623

Aflatoxin - Preliminary results
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/115735/page/88#Post115735

aflatoxin a summary 10/03/01
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4938/page/88#Post4938

Aflatoxin and alternative cricket diet by Pockets
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4957/page/67#Post4957

Aflatoxin- What it looks like on a necropsy
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/745/page/88#Post745
Posted By: kybluesky

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 10:57 AM

I have a bag of premium glider diet purchased from exotic nutrition, there are NO lot numbers on the bag.

Laura,
I am so sorry, know that you and your babies are in our thoughts and prayers. hug2

Laura
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 11:18 AM

Laura,
I'm so very sorry that you've had to go through this entire ordeal. Thank you for being so thorough in getting everything tested and for sharing the results with us here. Know that you are in our thoughts & prayers and if there's anything we can do to help, just ask...
hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: Gossamer

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 11:55 AM

If it's the exotic nutrition stuff, I have a bag of this that I purchased from Pricilla. Anyone using the Pricilla's diet should be aware of this. Luckily, my guys wouldn't touch the stuff. I wonder if it has one of the recalled pet food ingredients in it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 01:04 PM

Thank you everyone again for your support. I could not get through this without all of you. Lily is doing MUCH better this morning. She ate very well last night. I wrapped a heated blanket around the bottom of her cage last night to keep her warm, and it worked well. Her temp is still up and she is starting to act more like herself. She is still only eating about 1-2cc's at a time, but I am feeding her every hour to make sure she gets what she needs to get. Everyone else is doing fine and not showing any simptoms of the toxin

The pellets are originally manufactured by brisky's but repackaged and sold by several distributors
Posted By: Xglider

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 01:39 PM

hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:16 PM

cry OMG, Laura!!!! I'm just devistated!!!! cry
I'm SO sorry I haven't been here to at least send my love and prayers. hug2
I have to ask, is there a risk that Kumar could have it via Trinity's milk?? I've had him 11 days now and he's been eating well and crabby as ever. He is on bml now.
I'm so sorry, Laura. I just can't tell you how upset I am over your babies. cry Wish I were closer so I could be there to help.
mlove
Posted By: BCChins

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:28 PM

Laura Thank you for taking the time to update us on Lily. I know you are exsausted and are in a sea of emotions right now. You have been very thorough in your testing and making sure you babies get all they need. I am again sorry for for the loss of Jorn and Trinity.
Take care of your self also and remember we are all thinking of you.

Hugs
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 02:41 PM

Leah, there is that possibility. I will PM you the diet that I have had to put mine on and you can try it with Kumar.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 06:34 PM

I just talked to my vet and she said that aflatoxins are not spread thru breast milk. She also said that if he was infected, because of Kumar's age, he would already be gone. So, that eased my mind a little for Kumar. I still will be cautious and keep a close eye on him, though.
mlove
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 07:41 PM

Ok, good! I was worried about that with Priya and the other two joeys as well.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 07:52 PM

Laura, while I was out today, I picked up some plants as I am getting ready to redo my memorial garden (I do one for my dog, Jake and last year it had to be totally dug up because we were changing over from septic to sewer.) Anyway, I picked up two little bluebird plants and will plant them in a special part of the garden in honor of your babies. My heart just breaks for you and I just wanted to do something in their honor. Its small but it is from the heart and when it rains, I like to think that your babies will be taking care of their flowers from above. I will take pics when it is all finished. I am going to see if I can find a little sugar glider statue to put in there with them as well.

(((Laura)))
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/22/07 09:13 PM

cry cry
pappy, that is so sweet of you.
heart and hug2
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/23/07 12:22 AM

Mary you made me cry again! What a selfless beautiful act! hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/23/07 03:51 AM

Mary, thank you.... I'm crying again. You are all so wonderful. I don't know how I would make it through this without all of you... I feel so lost without all of my babies here now...

Lily is finally starting to get back to her old self. She crabbed at me a bit when I got home tonight to feed her... I have never been so happy to hear a crab! She let me hold her for a bit, but not very long at all... Before all of this she never would have dreamed of letting me hold her, lol. So she is slowly bouncing back from all of this
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/23/07 07:03 AM

The breeder I got Neo from sells this stuff, so I emailed her this link and told her to just stay on the lookout for recalls and she told me she had heard something already.

I dont know if she meant she had looked at the link already or if she heard it somewhere else.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/23/07 07:40 AM

After going over and over the list of ingredients, the only one that seems suspicious is the Corn Gluten Meal. It comes mainly from China. Almost all of it does. Which raises more questions of course.

Exotic Nutrition hasn't put a warning of any kind up nor taken the Premium Sugar Glider off the site yet. I think this should be done until further testing is done.

Also, with all the packaging from other countries and repackaging at people's homes here, it can be hard to trace. Damp homes, basements, cities, anything could go wrong in any of the processing of dry foods and insects.

I hope this was an isolated incident but it's doubtful.

Still praying for Lilly!

I'm so so sorry this all happened to you!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/23/07 01:58 PM

Thank you everyone for everything... Lily is getting back to herself more and more every hour. Once i am confident that she is as recovered as she is going to be, I will be putting her in with Logan, since they both lost their mates. For the moment, logan is at least not alone. He still has Priya, his daughter, in there to keep him company.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/24/07 07:35 PM

i hope that you little guy is ok and that you figure out what the prob is
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/24/07 08:06 PM

Thank you Jadenbug! She is doing much better now... She is successfully regulating her own temp COMPLETELY on her own now, and playing and eating well without my assistance too! We know that it was Aflatoxin, we were just really surprized that she came back from it... But she has almost completely recovered from her episode... Now she is on a completely controlled diet to prevent her from getting excess fat and iron, which she will not be able to process now due to the damage that the aflatoxin has inflicted on her liver.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/24/07 08:11 PM

I am so sorry for your losses. When I read about this kind of stuff, it scares me to death! I wish someone could just tell me.... Feed Macy Kay____. Do not feed her_____. She will be healthy and live for a very long time if you do _____. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees for humans, and as I am learning, no guarantees for our babies. Just know that we are doing the very best we can for today. I will keep you and Lily and the rest of your gliders in my thoughts and prayers. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/24/07 08:49 PM

CrabbyPatty, Unfortunately there are no more guarantees for our glider diets than there are anything else. I was feeding a proven diet exactly as it was written, and I still lost two of my babies. There are sooo many opinions out there about this diet and that diet, we can only do what we think is best and hope that everything turns out right.

I started to blame myself for what happened to my babies, and then a very smart lady told me that it is only our fault if we know better than to do something, do it anyways, and something bad happens... That acutally helped me a lot. Everything that everyone has done and said both here and on the phone, has helped me get through all of this mess. If it weren't for all of you helping me through this, I would have fallen apart, and lost Lily in the process.

Oh! I got some wonderful news too... The vet comped the ENTIRE bill, even Jorn's necropsy! She said that it was a learning experience for her, and a huge loss for me, and I should not have to pay for her not knowing what to do to save Jorn and Trinity (even though Trinity never made it in to her)... Needless to say, I have a wonderful vet that is more interested in the animals than she is in the money
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/24/07 08:52 PM

Wow! - It sounds like your vet really cares for the animals!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/24/07 09:08 PM

You are very blessed to have such a caring vet. I'm so sorry for your losses. I can't imagine what you're going through. (Big Hugs!!)
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 05/25/07 03:40 PM

Laura -

I never read this thread until now. I'm so sorry for your losses. I'm glad that Lily is up to her old tricks and doing better.

I'm glad you got some support and help thru the forum. I wish I had read sooner, just to give you hugs - although there is nothing I could have done.

I'm sorry about Jorn and Trinity.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 06/02/07 07:55 PM

I just read this - I can't believe I had not see it until now.

I know there are a lot of dry foods out there that might still be considered dangerous, but are there any that someone could recommend that are relatively safe in the ingredients and processing?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 06/02/07 08:00 PM

go to http://www.suggieshop.com/PelletPackagingInfo.htm. The manufacturers that are adding info to their packaging is listed there
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HELP~ Glider is seizing - 06/02/07 08:11 PM

Thank you Laura... you have probably already saved more lives than you know laugh
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