GliderCENTRAL

Gradual Weight Loss

Posted By: glidrz5

Gradual Weight Loss - 05/12/07 07:01 AM

Over the last few months my Meeko has been gradually losing weight. In December he was 140 grams & now he's down to 105 as of tonight. At first it was so slight that I hardly noticed but now he is as thin as my Nicky. I had noticed he was "trimming down" & I figured was that he has new neighbors & has spent more time over talking/looking at them. But that wouldn't account for the amount of weight that he's lost.
I know he's eating also. He's always over at the food bowl when I put it in & starts munching. I know Nicky isn't chasing him off because Nicky isn't food agressive. They will sit side by side & munch & even take food from each other without fussing. I did change his diet a few months before I noticed him getting more trim from the Ensure diet to PML. They do eat all of their PML each night & all of their veggies. They have never have been big fruit eaters, so it's not unusual for them to not eat their fruit.
He also is active and runs on his wheel & climbs all over his cage. He enjoys escaping from the tent....not sure how he manages, so I tend to take him & Nicky into my room for playtime. He climbs all over everything & plays. He's definately not lethargic at all.
He looks well. His fur is shiney & clean. He has bright eyes & his ears are up. His nose color is good.
If it wasn't for the weight loss I wouldn't be concerned about him.
The only other change in the last few months has been in his attitude toward me. He has finally become more relaxed & affectionate towards me & more willing to jump to me & let me pet him.
So, I'm not sure if he has become less food dependant because he's clamer....if he's more distracted.....if the change in diet has made the difference....if he's running on his wheel more or if something is really wrong.
I am going to take him into the vets & talk to Dr Kaiser about what might be going on with him, but if anyone has any ideas on what might be going on I'd apprecate hearing them so I can pass them on to Dr Kaiser.

Posted By: silverwolf

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/12/07 07:35 AM

I agree a vet check is in order. But there are a couple of things that it could be. My Ariel lost alot of weight she went from 140g down to about 85g last vet visit. But she was perfectly healthy. This is what he suggested. It could be that he is being more active than usual. 140g is slightly large for a glider. So he started losing a little weight and feeling better became more active therefore losing more weight. This is what my Ariel did now she has gained some back over the last few months but is still not as big as she was. I also changed diets to get her to gain weight back. This could also be a reason for the loss changing diets can be bad so pick a good one and stick with it. Also if he is un neutered it could be that he wants to mate she doesn't so he runs in his wheel to work off the frustration. My male does this alot lol because my female is a prude and he gets really frustrated.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/12/07 07:40 AM

Chris, you and I have talked on the phone, and in PM. Worst case scenario would be cancer (but look at Lord Darcy-the odds CAN be beaten!). Blood test would be first, as if he gets much lighter they won't be able to draw enough for a panel. Trust me. He's older, so that is a possibility, though one I didn't want to say out loud when you first told me-it did cross my mind then.

Fecals, though I don't know where he would have picked up a parasite-that could be another. You could try 2 weeks of Flagyl to see...

Also, put him back on the Ensure (offer him all he wants-Don't limit him) and see if he can gain some weight. You know Nicky, as his cagemate, will gain too, but that's okay-he's not fat.

And I mean it...I have my cell, so if you need to CALL ME.
hug2 hug2

Silverwolf-yes, Meeko is long since neutered, I do believe.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/12/07 07:49 AM

Yes Meeko is neutered. He has been since he's been @ 9 months old (when I got him). That was one of the first things I had done, before I put him in with Nicky.

Jen, you know I don't want to think of Cancer, but it has crossed my mind as well, so it's something I definately will be asking about. I'll also talk to Dr Kaiser about drawing blood for a work up. I know he wasn't comfortable with doing it with Syddie so I'm not sure what his reaction will be. Can you PM your vets number so I can take it with me? Talking to a vet who has drawn suggie blood might make him more willing to take that step if need be.
I'll go ahead & give Nicky & Meeko some Ensure along with their dinner. They do have PML but some extra "yummies" won't hurt them.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/12/07 08:47 AM

This is the one who did the draw from Chronos:

Douglas W Folland, DVM 86 North 70 West Centerville, UT 84014 (801) 298-2014

I'll PM it as well, so it's easy for you to find.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/13/07 01:21 PM

Meeko has a vet apt for 8:45 on Monday. If anyone can think of anything else to mention to my vet, please let me know.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/13/07 01:42 PM

AHA! I remembered what ocurred to me yesterday, then I forgot (<-hits self in head). Hyperthyroidism. An overactive thyroid could cause a gradual weight loss. I don't know what to look for in the blood or urine for that, but the vet should.

I know there can be other things, I can't remember if diabetes onset could do this, but markers in the urine include ketones and sugar, and excessive thirst is one of the noticeable symptoms. Is he drinking more than usual at all, if you've noticed?
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/13/07 01:55 PM

I haven't noticed him drinking more than normal. As far as thyroid, that should have occured to me....I have low thyroid production LOL...it took a blood test to discover it.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/13/07 02:01 PM

That one was probably unlikely-diabetes-but thought I'd throw it out there-it's easy to test for. I'll see if I can come up with anything else before tomorrow...so far that's all I can think of though.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/14/07 03:38 PM

cry need_hug
Meeko is at the vets office. Dr Kaiser was concerned about the amount of weight that he'd lost. He kept him so they could sedate him & draw blood, get a urine sample & take an X-Ray. Right now I'm about to chew nails.
I've got Nicky in my shirt for comfort. He's not really a bra baby, but he does go into my bra now & I felt that he would want some comfort also since Meeko wasn't there to share his pouch.
need_hug
Posted By: Msdoolittle

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/14/07 03:51 PM

I hope Meeko is ok and you can bring him home soon! Lots of hugs!!!
Posted By: TracieB

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/14/07 04:13 PM

hug2 hug2 I hope all goes well at the vet and that Meeko is okay. Good thoughts and prayers going out for you both. hug2 hug2
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/14/07 04:39 PM

Chris, as you know, I was gone for the weekend, so this is the first I've seen this thread. I really don't have anything to add to what Jen said, but I wanted to let you know that I'm praying for you & Meeko...
hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/14/07 04:39 PM

hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2

We are all here with you.... Please keep us updated...

Good Luck
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/15/07 03:18 AM

Meeko is home again & is his usual crabby self.....maybe a bit more crabby but who can blame him. He was anestetized & had blood drawn & an X-Ray taken. Dr Kaiser didn't get as much blood as he'd hoped for but got enough for some tests. We didn't get a urinalysis done as Meeko refused to cooperate there. We should have the results back by Friday on him.
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/15/07 11:33 AM

Thanks for the update, Chris. Still keeping ya'll in my prayers hug2
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/21/07 05:02 PM

Sorry it's taken me so long to update this. I've been out of town & haven't had access to a computer for the majority of the weekend. Anyway, I spoke to Dr Kaiser on Friday & he had the blood results back. Meeko has a slightly elivated white cound (I do need to find out what slightly is) and that Meeko is anemic! We need to tweek his diet to get him more iron/protein into it and put him on an antibiotic. In two weeks he will go back for follow up blood work.
It's hard being out of town when I learned this, because on the phone I wasn't able to think fast enough to ask the many many questions that popped into my head later & I didn't have any meds with me to start him on......I won't be back "home" until next weekend. However I'm staying with Teresa (Dancing), so she can get me antibiotics from her vet for my boy to use until we are home again and is helping me with his dietary issues.
Please, if anyone has any experience with anemic gliders or suggestions on a diet that will help with this let me know.
On a good note, Meeko is looking good & is very active. His "vacation" hasn't seemed to have stressed him at all! He's eating well, looks great is very active & has remained curious....He WASN'T happy tho when Mom had to stop him from exploring the new room he was in so she could stick icky meds down his throat & gave me a good nip.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/25/07 11:01 PM

Chris, I haven't been trying to ignore you, just been a really busy week-interviewed for a new job today, and still need a nap before work tonight.

I'd need to know, before offering much, does the vet have any idea WHY he's anemic? And how low is it? Slightly? Severe? You can add iron and B vitamins to his diet, but it could still get worse over time depending on what's causing it. I can offer dietary advice there, but not much more without knowing what's causing it. Depending on how anemic, you may not want to modify very much, because it will accumulate over time, and Iron is a heavy metal and has the potential to be toxic if there's too much. worried dunno
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/26/07 06:00 AM

I'm taking Meeko back into the vets tomorrow morning. He lost another 6 grams this last week frown I'll try to get more information about what's going on then & update you.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/26/07 10:20 AM

Chris...PM we discussed on the phone (questions for vet) is in your inbox. Here's a copy so we can keep the continuity of your thread, and Meeko's progress, going:

Do we know WHY he is anemic?

What is degree of anemia?

Double check for parasites (including roundworm, hookworm, as household has felines, and glider may have been where cats have walked)-suggest possible treat with Flagyl 2 weeks just in case-since may not show on testing if eggs not shedding, then retest/see if improvement. Both fecal float and direct smear. Was done last time? Stains?

What all was done with bloodwork? How much of panel? Results?

If second draw needed-Dr. Folland or Dr. Harris can advise for draw via Vena Cava (sp?) in chest for full panel under anesthesia. If sought let him/her know glider has dropped to just over 100 grams in weight. If he's not in, Dr. Harris IS in Saturday Mornings:

Dr. Laurel Harris
2675 Parley's Way
Salt Lake City, UT 84109
(801) 485-4736

Urinalysis, via voluntary or direct draw via syringe from bladder-are white cells showing up there as well? What amounts? Any proteins, sugars, ketones, high or low PH, etc?

Possibilities for source of anemia?

Is it possible to do Xray or Ultrasound?

I don't believe this to be aflatoxins (since store bought mealworms would be the only possible source), but if they can check without being too invasive, considering his low weight/state of health, it's worth ruling out.

I have to wait around Park City for the Post Office to open anyway, so I'll be up until at least 11 am your time-very likely later. Call me when he's done (or even during-it wouldn't be the first time I've talked to someone's vet-just make sure they know that I'm not one) if you think it'll be beneficial or helpful-I don't mind.

I know you're worried about your little guy-so am I. What's going on isn't normal, and beyond a bit of extra activity, and hopefully we'll be able to track down a cause. I can ask my vet questions, but without the answers to the above, they won't be able to help any more than I can. Hopefully the stress of the trip didn't add to whatever it is. You know you and your guys are never far from my thoughts--and always in my prayers. Tons and tons of hugs to you hug2 hug2 hug2

If anyone else can come up with questions I haven't put down, PLEASE post. We'd like to cover all possible bases, and find out what's wrong with the little guy, in order to help him.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/26/07 01:31 PM

I'll try to answer the questions after we get back from the vets office. I know they tried to draw urine last time, but Meeko was dry. They also did take an X-Ray which I'll ask Dr Kaiser to show to me.
As of this morning. Meeko had gained back 2 of the grams he lost, bringing him up to 104.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/26/07 03:37 PM

Just got back from the vets office with Meeko. He gave him some sub-Q fluids just in case he had dehydrated on the trip & I am to continue with the pedialite. He also checked Meeko's teeth & said that they looked fine & there is no problem there, but to use my rinse on them as a preventative measure. In addition, we are going to start him on flagyl just in case this is a parasite issue.

Meeko will go back in next Wednesday for another blood draw so they can run a second panal to check to see if the meds are working and to see if there is any change. They will also run a more complete panal since the previous one was bare bones because they were not able to get enough blood from him. They will also run a fecal & uranalysis (if Meeko will cooperate with me on that)

I also got some more information on the test that were run on him:

Uranalysis: unable to run
X-Ray: Got a great shot & everything is normal
Blood Panal:
* White Cell count is 15000. This indicates some kind of infection. Dr Kaiser needs to consult to find out what a Suggies normal count is.
* Red Blood cell estimate is 33%
* Protien is 7.4
* White/red blood cell estimate:
> 22% nutrifils
> 58% lymphocytes
> 17% monocytes
> 3% eosinophils


Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/27/07 04:12 PM

Chris...when is your next appointment? Been studying, and have some info it'll take me a while to type-so need to know when my deadline is (there's a lot of info, and it needs converted into plain english, lol). The white blood cell count is making sense to me now, with the anemia, which is a little more complex than just severity.

Anyway, I picked up an extra shift at work, so need to sleep today, but I want to plan when to get this up for you. Let me know. hug2
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/27/07 11:25 PM

Thanks Jen, I'd appreciate having things put into perspective for me. The numbers & trying to figure out what they mean makes my head spin. It's definately not my forte'. As for his next vet apt, Meeko goes back in Wednesday morning. I'm hoping to get his weight back up to something close to what he was before. He's getting there, but it's taking time. As of this morning, he was up to 105 grams.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 01:09 AM

Meeko's vet appointment has been postponed until next week. Dr Kaiser is ill & won't be in and the other vet in the office isn't comfortable with gliders.
Hopefully I'll be able to get his weight up some more by then. For now tho, he's holding at 105.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 02:38 AM

That will give you some time to assimilate the amount of information I'm going to throw at you, lol. I'm going to give you a lot, and it's up to you to make your vet do it, or find one that will, and I'll explain the reasons as well. It's probably going to take at least an hour (probably longer) to type it all, and put the links in-so be patient-it'll be up by morning.

The things I'm working from are the following:
What we know:
1. Unexplained weight loss
2. High White Blood Cell count
3. Anemia

What we don't:
1. Why is he anemic?
2. Where is the infection?
3. Why is he losing weight, but eating?

I'm also going to explain what the items on the blood panel are, why they are needed, and what they're looking for, along with normal values, and what the cells are in the simple panel you've already had done, and what they do. Also why they NEED a urinalysis and fecal sample, and what they show.

Gotta feed kids, medicate and feed gliders, but I'll be back-spent the afternoon looking up references and organizing information-it's still going to take awhile to get it all up in understandable english.

For now, here's the info on normal blood values for gliders from the Merck veterinary manual (the u's are a measurement symbol I can't reproduce on my keyboard-your vet will know):

Hematology

Hemoglobin 13-15 g/dL
Red blood cells 5.1-7.2 × 106/uL
Mean corpuscular Hgb concentration 30-33 g/dL
Mean corpuscular Hgb 18.2-20.6 pg
White blood cells (WBC) 5.0-12.2 × 103/uL
Neutrophils (NEUT)1.5-3.0 × 103/uL
Lymphocytes (LYMPH) 2.8-9.2 × 103/uL
Monocytes (MONO) 0.06-0.2 × 103/uL
Eosinophils (EOS) 0.02-0.14 × 103/L
Basophils (BOS) 0
Plasma proteins (TP) 5.6-6.9 g/dL
Albumin (ALB) 3.0-3.5 g/dL
Globulin (GLOB) 2.2-3.6 g/dL

Biochemistry

ALT 50-106 U/L
AST 46-179 U/L
Calcium (Ca) 6.9-8.4 mg/dL
CPK 210-589 U/L
Creatinine (CREA) 0.2-0.5 mg/dL
Glucose (GLU) 130-183 mg/dL
Phosphorus (PHOS) 3.8-4.4 mg/dL
Potassium 3.3-5.9 mEq/L
Sodium (Na) 135-145 mEq/L
Urea 18-24 mg/dL

Chronos had more than this tested, and some listed not run, and I'll include those-but can't find normal values for a glider for them. I will put whether my vet felt they were within normal limits or not)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 03:01 AM

Hmm. Yeah, do we have more info on what are the normal limits? Or is there some way to transfer the percentages that you have from Meeko's report into the mg/dL (conversions, fun!)

That is really strange. I do wonder if increasing a dietary supplement could help with the anemia, although that's not really addressing the underlying cause.

Bloodwork can be complicated like that; oftentimes it tells you SOMETHING is wrong but it's hard to determine WHAT.

Best of luck to you Chris, and keep us posted!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 08:29 AM

Those are all that the current Merck Veterinary manual provide specific to Sugar Gliders at this time. We can hope future issues have a more thorough table.

First, here are all the values, what they are, and hopefully sort of what they do. There may be more than what I can include, since I haven't gone to medical school, so this is based on resources I have access to.

Complete Blood Count: Looks for the numbers of red and white blood cells per cubic millimeter of blood. It is one of the most routinely done tests in a clinical lab, and one of the most valuable screening and diagnostic techniques. They may also do a Differential Count, where each type of white cell can be represented as percentage of all (the total number) of white cells observed (there are 5 kinds of white cells with differing functions). There are also a number of red cells, but as they're normally not separated out I'll just give the basics. Most automatic counters also determine hemoglobin or hematocrit and include this number in the complete blood count. Can also look at protein content (T.P. - total protein) So far this is Meeko's only diagnostic test done.

Red Blood Cells: RBC (erythrocyte) It makes up the most of blood cell volume. It's primary purpose is to transport oxygen through the body. They originate (or a 'born') in the marrow of the long bones, normally lives for 110 to 120 days before being removed from the bloodstream and replaced by the body. New erythrocytes are produced at a rate of slightly more than 1% a day, so a constant level is usually maintained.

Acute blood loss, hemolytic anemia, or chronic oxygen deprivation can cause red cell production to increase greatly.

White Blood Cells WBC (leukocyte)
These function as phagocytes (a cell that is able to surround, engulf, and digest microorganisms and cellular debris) of bacteria, fungi, and viruses, detoxifiers of toxic proteins that may result from allergic reactions and cellular injury, and immune system cells.
1. lymphocytes-normally account for 25% (IN HUMANS) of the total white blood cell count, but increase in number in response to infection. There are two kinds-B and T cells, that interact with each other to fight infection.

2. monocytes-this is a direct quote, since I'm not sure what exactly they do: "a large, mononuclear leukocyte...with an ovoid or kidney shaped nucleus, containing chromatin material with a lacy pattern and abundant grey-blue cytoplasm filled with fine, reddish and azurophillic granules." --I need to look into this one some more.

3. neutrophils-are the circulating white blood cells essential for phagocytosis (see phagocytes under leukocytes) and proteolysis (a process by which water added to the peptide bonds of proteins-think the "skin" on a bacteria-breaks down the protein molecule into simpler substances. Numerous enzymes may catalyze (speed up)the process. The action of mineral acids and heat may also trigger this response--I'm not positive, but heat might be an example of what a fever does) by which bacteria, cellular debris, and solid particles are removed and destroyed.

4. basophils-represent 1% or less of the total white blood cell count. This number increases in myeloproliferative diseases (myelo is a prefix meaning "spinal cord or bone marrow". Proliferate meanse to grow by multiplication of cells, parts, or organisms. Proliferattion is the reproduction or multiplication of similar forms, the term is usually applied to increases of cells or cysts. A myleoproliferative disorder is a group of conditions (illness) characterized by proliferation of myleoid tissue (of the spinal cord or bone marrow)-you can look these up but the conditions listed are: such as agnogenic myelofibrosis, myeloid metaplasia, or chronic myelogenous leukemia) and decreases in severe allergic reactions. An increase in number is seen during the healing phase of inflammation.

5. eosinophil-normally constitute 1%-3% of the white blood cells of the body. They increase in number with allergy and some parasitic conditions, and decrease with steroid administration.

The Differential White Blood Cell Count is an examination and numbering of the distribution (types and numbers) of leukocytes (white blood cells) in a stained blood smear (slide under a microscope or by machine). The different kinds of white blood cells are counted and reported as percentages of the total number of cells looked at. Differential white blood cell counts provide more specific information related to infections and diseases.

Commonly used to test for anemia, infection, inflammation, and the healthiness of blood cells. Here are some links that helps to explain the CBC (Complete Blood Count)

http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/petOwners/wellnessExams/testGuide.htm

http://www.ctdslab.co.uk/profilesandscreens.html

I will refer to these links (easily accessible to everyone) or one of a few others, with the other panel explanations as well. Next post is the Chemistry Tests (all those abbreviations no one understands very well, or knows what they are) to try and clarify what is being looked for, how they can refine the results of the above CBC test further to help more specifically pinpoint an illness and where it might be in the body.

To end this post (and keep this in manageable chunks) I'll pull the "normal" values from Merck, and put them alongside Meeko's results:

White Cell count is 15000. This indicates some kind of infection. Dr Kaiser needs to consult to find out what a Suggies normal count is.

Meeko's Numbers:
* Red Blood cell estimate is 33%
* Protien is 7.4
* White/red blood cell estimate:
> 22% nutrifils
> 58% lymphocytes
> 17% monocytes
> 3% eosinophils

Normal amounts from Merck & percents I have from Allied health, above, where availble, then Chronos' and what the vet said was normal, and what was elevated-I'm going to need to study some more to get any more specific. The vet should be able to compare.

Merck (Sugar Glider normal values)
Red blood cells 5.1-7.2 × 106/uL
White blood cells (WBC) 5.0-12.2 × 103/uL
Neutrophils (NEUT)1.5-3.0 × 103/uL
Lymphocytes (LYMPH) 2.8-9.2 × 103/uL
Monocytes (MONO) 0.06-0.2 × 103/uL
Eosinophils (EOS) 0.02-0.14 × 103/L
Basophils (BOS) 0
Plasma proteins (TP) 5.6-6.9 g/dL

Chronos: had elevated white cells, and elevated lymphocyte counts in his CBC, with everything else-according to the vet-within normal range.

WP 14,960
PCV (packed cell volume) 52%
Neutrophils 26%
Lymphocytes 60%
Monocytes 11%
Eosinophils 2%
Basophils 1%
Total Protein 6.5g/dL

It looks like Meeko's proteins might be a little high as well-but I don't know what significance that may have.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 09:15 AM

Okay, my reply just glitched, and scrapped over an hour's work, so I'll retype it all on a Word document, copy and paste, tomorrow. frown Glad there's not a rush for this before the AM.
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 11:20 AM

We had the exact type of problem with one of our rescues a few months ago. Turned out she had roundworms. She was eating everything and playing but losing weight. Doc explained the roundworms were taking the nutrition out of her body. (lowering her immune system and getting infection) Thing is, she acted normal cept for losing the weight, then she got kinda runny poo. Not diarreah, but icky.

She was on meds that Peggy's doc told the vet to give her for 3 days then again in 3 weeks for 3 days. It cleared it all up.

Praying your baby is okay. smile
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 02:49 PM

Meeko was up to 106/107 grams this morning!
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/30/07 02:57 PM

clap clap clap
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/31/07 01:37 AM

smile that's great news, i sure hope you find out what is wrong with your little one, hope he's still doing great, keep them updates coming and i'll keep the prayers coming he'll be okay!!! grin hug2
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/31/07 03:40 AM

Part 2 (there will be one more). Told you it was a lot of info!

Chemistry Testing:

Chemistry normal values-the amounts of various substances within the normal body , determined by testing a large number presumed to be healthy. Normal values are expressed in ranges of numbers, and ranges vary for different age groups, and from lab to lab. Although variations from normal values can be highly significant tools in the diagnoses of certain diseases, in all cases an abnormal result must be cautiously interpreted.

ALB (albumin) a water soluble (dissolvable) heat coagulable (clotting) protein. Various albumins are found in practically all animal tissues and many plant tissues. Determining the levels and kinds of albumin in urine, blood, and other body tissues is the basis of a number of lab tests. For instance, albumin A is a blood serum constituent (an essential part; component; element) that gathers in cancer cells and is deficient in circulation in cancer patients.

ALKP or ALP (alkaline phosphatase) an enzyme present in bone, the kidneys, the intestine, plasma, and teeth. It may be elevated in the serum in some diseases of the bone and liver and in some other illnesses. Abnormal levels can be indicative of such illnesses as external and internal obstructive biliary disease (bile duct), hepatic tumors, hepatotoxic drugs, hepatitis, osteopblastic metastatic tumors, Paget’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and hyperparathyroidism.

ALT or SGPT (alanine aminotransferase) an enzyme normally present in the serum and tissues of the body, especially the tissues of the liver. The enzyme is released into the serum as a result of tissue injury and increases in the case of acute liver damage. Elevated levels of ALT are highly specific in indicating hepatocellular disease (hepato-of the liver).

AMYL (amylase) an enzyme that speeds up the hydrolysis (to break down with water) of starch into smaller carbohydrate molecules. The test is most specific for pancreatitis and other pancreatic disorders. Elevated levels may also indicate non pancreatic disorders such as bowel perforation, penetrating peptic ulcer, duodenal obstruction, and others.

BUN (blood urea nitrogen) this is a measure of the amount of urea in the blood. Urea forms in the liver as the end product of protein metabolism, circulates in the blood, and is excreted through the kidney in urine. The BUN, determined by blood test, is directly related to the metabolic function of the liver and excretory function of the kidney. A very high level can indicate serious impairment of renal (kidney) function.

Ca (calcium) an alkaline earth metal element. Fifth most abundant element in the body and is mainly present in bone. The body needs calcium ions for the transmission of nerve impulses, muscle contraction, blood coagulation (clotting), cardiac (heart) functions, and other processes, and it is a component of extracellular fluid and of soft tissue cells. The endocrine system controls the concentration of ionized calcium in the plasma-only a small amount of intake is ionized and diffusible-the rest is bound to proteins, especially albumen. Vitamin D, calcitonin, and parathyroid hormone are essential in the metabolism of calcium. Abnormally high levels of ionized calcium in the extracellular fluid can produce muscle weakness, lethargy, and coma. A relatively small decrease from the normal level of this element can produce tetanic seizures. The blood or urine test is used to evaluate parathyroid function and calcium metabolism by directly measuring the total amount of calcium in the blood. It is used to monitor patients with renal failure or transplantation, hyperparathyroidism, and various malignancies, as well as during and after large blood transfusions (transplant and transfusion not done on gliders).

CHOL (cholesterol)a waxy lipid soluble compound found only in animal tissues. It is an integral component in every cell in the body, facilitating the absorption and transport of fatty acids. It is found in foods of animal origin and is continuously synthesized in the body, primarily in the liver.

CREA (creatinine) a substance formed from the metabolism of creatine, commonly found in blood, urine, and muscle tissue. It is measured in blood and urine tests as an indicator of kidney function.

GLU (glucose) a simple sugar found in certain foods, especially fruits, and a major source of energy present in the blood and animal body fluids. Excess glucose in circulation is normally polymerized (to undergo a change) within the liver and muscles as glycogen, which is hydrolyzed to glucose and liberated (freed) as needed. Determining blood glucose levels is an important diagnostic test in diabetes and other disorders.

PHOS (phosphate) a salt of phosphoric acid. Phosphates are extremely important in living cells, particularly in the storage and use of energy and the transmission of genetic information within a cell and from one cell to another. Abnormal phosphate levels are associated with renal failure, acromegaly, hyper- or hypoparathyroidism, liver disease, advanced lymphoma or myeloma, hemolytic anemia, hypercalcemia, vitamin D deficiency, diabetic acidosis, hyperinsulinism, and sepsis, among other conditions.

BIL or TBIL (bilirubin) the orange-yellow pigment of bile, formed principally by the breakdown of hemoglobin in red blood cells after termination of their normal lifespan. Water-insoluble (unable to be broken down in water) unconjugated bilirubin normally travels in the bloodstream to the liver, where it is converted to a water soluble, conjugated form and excreted into the bile. The majority of bilirubin leaves the body in the stool. The characteristic yellow pallor of jaundice is caused by the accumulation (build up) of bilirubin in the blood and tissues of the skin. Blood testing for it provides information for diagnosis and evaluation of liver disease, biliary obstruction, and hemolytic anemia.

TP (total protein) – built up of necessary amino acids, major source of building materials for muscles, blood, skin, hair, nails, and the internal organs. Growth hormone, insulin, and androgens stimulate protein formation, and adrenal cortical hormones tend to cause breakdown of body proteins. Diseases affecting protein metabolism include homocystinuria, liver disease, maple sugar urine disease, and phenylketonuria. The presence of unusually large amounts of protein in blood or urine can be a sign of renal disease or complications of another disease, such as hypertension or heart failure.

GLOB (globulin) one of a broad category of simple proteins classified by solubility, electrophoretic mobility, and size.

Hb (hemoglobin)- a complex protein-iron compound in the blood that carries oxygen to the cells from the lungs and carbon dioxide away from the cells to the lungs. Testing is for abnormal levels, cells, etc.

Lipase – any of several enzymes produced by the organs of the digestive system that catalyze the breakdown of lipids. Test results are used most often to diagnose acute pancreatitis, but also are useful in helping diagnose renal failure, intestinal infarction or obstruction, and several other conditions.

TGs (triglyceride) – a simple fat compound made up of 3 molecules of fatty acid and glycerol. They make up most animal and vegetable fats and are the principal lipids in the blood, circulating within lipoproteins. The test detects levels of fats existing within the bloodstream that are transported by Very Low Density Lipoproteins and Low Density Lipoproteins. It is part of a lipid profile that also evaluates cholesterol and lipoproteins to [censored] the risk of coronary and vascular disease.

Hematocrit, or PCV- a measure of the packed cell volume of red cells expressed as a percentage of the total blood volume. There is a normal range, and an abnormal one.

These are the most common tests done on a blood sample. Later I’ll go over a urinalysis and what anemia is. For now, here’s the link that will explain which tests are done and why for each grouping. Some of what they look for has already been covered here.
Click on the words (in blue) for each group for more specifics.

http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/petOwners/wellnessExams/testGuide.htm
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/31/07 08:56 AM

Last one unless there are questions (bet you're all glad and going 'shut up' lol). It includes Urinalysis and Anemia


Urinalysis

A physical, microscopic, or chemical examination of urine. The sample is physically examined for color, turbidity, and specific gravity.

Turbidity: a condition of light scattering in a liquid resulting from the presence of suspended particles. In other words, cloudy or obscured in appearance. Turbidity increases with the concentration of particles and depends on their shapes and sizes.

After being physically examined (ever wonder why they don’t just say ‘looked at’?) it is spun in a centrifuge to allow collection of a small amount of sediment, which is examined under a microscope for blood cells, casts, crystals, pus, and bacteria. Chemical analysis may also be performed to measure the pH and to identify and measure the levels of ketones, sugar, protein, blood components, and many other substances.

Now to what these things are. Blood, glucose, bilirubin, and protein have been covered. Most don’t know what pH, ketones and the like are, though, or whether they should be there, or what. So on to definitions.

Specific gravity (sp.gr.): is the ratio of the density of a substance to the density of another substance accepted as a standard. The usual standard for liquids and solids is water. Thus, a liquid or solid with a specific gravity of 4 is four times as dense as water at the same temperature.

PH –abbreviation for potential hydrogen, a scale representing the relative acidity (or alkalinity) of a solution, in which a value of 7.0 is neutral. Below 7.0 is acid, above 7.0 is alkaline.

Urinary sediment: solid matter that settles to the bottom of a urine sample that has been allowed to stand for several hours.

Urinary casts-cells or particles excreted in the urine having the shape of renal-collecting tubule cells.

Urinary crystals: such as calcium phosphate, tri phosphate, etc. They can occur with a UTI , and frequently accompany an alkaline pH.

Ketones: are an organic chemical compound characterized by having in it’s structure a carbonyl, or keto, group attached to two alkyl groups. It is produced by oxidation of secondary alcohols.

What do the numbers on the urinalysis mean? Here are some answers-NOTE that it is not all of them, and abnormal readings could indicate other things as well. That’s why we have vets.

Color: Normal…amber yellow. Abnormal…red indicates hematuria (possibly urinary obstruction, renal calculi, tumor, renal failure, cystitis)

Clarity: Normal…clear. Abnormal…cloudy; debris, bacterial sediment (urinary infection)

pH: Normal…according to my vet about 6.0-7.5. Abnormal…1. alkaline on standing or with urinary tract infection. 2. increased acidity with renal tubular acidosis.

Specific gravity: normal…in humans it’s 1.010 – 1.026—Chronos was 1.034..I don’t know what is normal for a glider. Abnormal: Usually reflects fluid intake: the less fluid intake, the higher the specific gravity. If specific gravity remains low (1.010-1.014 in Humans), renal disease or pituitary disease (deficit of ADH) is suspected.

Protein: normal-do not know for glider. 0-8mg/dl for Humans. Abnormal…Proteinuria may occur with high protein diet and exercise (particularly prolonged). Seen in Renal disease.

Sugar: Normal…0 Abnormal…Glycosuria occurs after a high intake of sugar or with diabetes mellitus.

Ketones: Normal…0 Abnormal…ketonuria occurs with starvation and diabetic ketoacidosis.

RBCs (red blood cells) Normal…0-4 (Human) Abnormal…Injury to kidney tissue (see color above)

WBCs (white blood cells) Normal…0-5 (Human) Abnormal…Urinary tract infection

Casts: Normal…0 Abnormal…Urinary tract infection, renal disease

There are other things that may be tested for as well, but these are the most common a glider owner will see.

There are also tests for Thyroid function, with names like T1, T3, free T4, that are specific and necessary for diagnosing thyroid issues. I do not know if they’ve ever been done on a glider or if any kind of normal values are known or estimated.










Anemia
(and note that most ‘symptoms’ would be almost impossible to see on a glider-which is what makes testing to find the cause so important)

Anemia is a decrease in hemoglobin in the blood levels to below the normal range. Anemia may be caused by a decrease in red cell production, an increase in red cell destruction, or a loss of blood.

Depending on severity, anemia may be accompanied by clinical findings that come from the lessened oxygen carrying capacity of the blood. Signs and symptoms include fatigue, exertional dyspnea (a distressful sensation of uncomfortable breathing that may be caused by certain heart conditions, strenuous exercise, or anxiety), dizziness, headache, insomnia, and pallor (ie pale nose/gums). Signs may also include confusion or disorientation. Anorexia (NOT the eating disorder. It is: lack or loss of appetite resulting in the inability to eat. The condition may result from poorly prepared or unattractive food or surroundings, unfavorable company, or various physical and psychological causes.), dyspepsia (a vague feeling of epigastric discomfort after eating-an uncomfortable feeling of fullness, heartburn, bloating, and nausea), HEART: palpitations , tachycardia, cardiac dilation, and systolic murmurs also may occur. Iron deficiency is the most common causative factor. Additional lab studies may be required to establish the less common forms of anemia.

The therapeutic response to anemia (treatment for) is variable and depends on the causative factors. Moderate to severe anemia, with hemoglobin levels that are below (in Humans) 7-8 g/dL, may require transfusion of one or more units of blood (packed blood cells), especially if the condition is acute and specific clinical signs are present. Depending on the kind of anemia, treatment includes providing supplements of the deficient component, eliminating the cause of the blood loss, or alleviating the hemolytic component. Alleviating the hemolytic component may involve administration (or dosing) of adrenal corticosteroids or splenectomy—which would not be viable on a glider. Neither would a transfusion.

Appropriate lab tests are repeated at intervals to monitor the response and need for continued therapy. Erythropoietin injections may be used to stimulate red cell production when anemia is secondary to chronic renal (kidney) failure, or the anemia of chronic disease.

There are many kinds of anemia-caused by things from kidney infections, parasites, dietary iron deficiency, processing issues, etc. A parasite that travels through the bloodstream, such as trichinosis, may also trigger a white cell response in the host as if there were a bacterial infection. Because a glider will not show most symptoms, or be able to tell a vet “I feel…” or “It hurts here…” testing is the only conclusive way we have to confirm a problem that may not be straightforward, and ensure the right treatment in a timely manner, since usually with gliders by the time we know there’s a problem at all it’s late in the game.

I’ve talked to Chris about subq’s both before and after his blood draw, considering his weight, to make it easier on him, with the backup and professional advice of another GC member on that. I am also going to quote part of the PM (hope that’s okay!) in additional info she’s added for our understanding and education, and in an attempt to help Chris and her vet (the neat thing is that after recent studies and typing all this, I have no problem understanding what she said, as well as agreeing):

Quote:
Re parasites-he is on flagyl so the fecal float and smear may be neg. when repeated. In people the equivalent is the "ova and parasite" test-pretty much the same thing other than volume of specimen. We request 3 specimens collected on different days. If we got 6 specimens the test at that point is only 90% accurate. Parasites are often not detected in every specimen collected. Therefor specimen quality is critical. Is it possible for Chris to bring a specimen to the vet? Also, same with UA-can it be collected in a urine cup before she leaves and kept on ice?

Also, it only takes less that a drop to do a manual diff. Some machines do an automatic diff. I think this is a worthwhile test either way. You count the first 100 wbc's you see and report the results as as percentage. It is useful in that a "shift" of too many neut. would indicate poss. bacterial infection. Immature neut. are called bands. They are present when you have a bacterial infection and the older neuts. are "used up". Monos are the garbage eaters-they can mean infection,parasites,and also stress. Too many lymphs can mean a viral infection, but usually you have a low WBC count. You can also learn a lot about a patient's anemia with this test by looking at the rbc's. RBC's that are too big or too small are indicative of different types of anemia. You get a lot of info per drop of blood when a diff is performed!

If any lab work is sent to a reference lab, the vet should make sure to note what his priorities are as far as what tests are most important to him and that they need to take special care with the specimen as it was not easily obtained and cannot be recollected.


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/31/07 10:19 AM

WOW....that is a lot of good info for referrence. Thanks Jen!! Can we sticky that at the top of the forum so its easy to find?
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/31/07 04:02 PM

Jen.....WOW, you make my head spin. That's alot to take in all at once even when broken down into "bite" size pieces.
I'm definately going to have to print it out to take with me to the vets office.

also.........

dance jump clap Meeko was 109/110 grams this morning!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 05/31/07 11:03 PM

I know it's alot-told you it wouldn't work on the phone, lol. crazy But it gives the whys behind what you're asking for, and an understanding of why it's important to do, and do it right.

Things I'd like the vet to look into, if Meeko were mine:

Parasites. First thing. It would account for all of his symptoms. So far they haven't done anything that would confirm or deny-and the meds will make that more complicated. I'd go for repeat testing the next several weeks as well on fecals just to be sure.

As stated, make sure they're specific as to which tests they want run with the blood sample:

Quote:
If any lab work is sent to a reference lab, the vet should make sure to note what his priorities are as far as what tests are most important to him and that they need to take special care with the specimen as it was not easily obtained and cannot be recollected.


Since this is someone who works in one of said labs, they do know what they're talking about-you don't want that sample wasted.

And do somehow get a urine sample to test.

With the fecals, make sure both float and smear are done each time.

Kidneys are another thing that stood out-if they are infected/damaged could account for all of his symptoms also. I'm sure there could be other things, or combinations that could as well, but those are the two that stood out most. Have him cover as many bases as possible.

It was also suggested to me that the Hemoglobin, hematocrit and PCV in a recount when you get the new sample can be a benefit with pinpointing the anemia as well - those numbers weren't included in the first one (please other GC member-if I missed something let me know so I can edit)

K-other possibilities:
Quote:
in people we do occult blood testing when the patient is anemic. It is a simple test that rules out blood in the stool and tells the physician there is no bleeding in the intestinal tract-so this would not be the cause of the anemia.
To run the test, the vet or lab puts a small amount of stool sample on a card. The tech turns it over, opens the window and adds a couple of drops of developer. Blue color =blood present.


And told you he was trying (weight)! All those extras are helping! Go Meeko! clap
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/02/07 12:03 AM

I just wanted to update everyone on Meeko. I talked with the vet clinic today and the fecal sample I took in for Meeko came back negative for parasites. I will take in another sample to be tested in a few weeks because I know that some parasites are cyclic & might not show up in one testing. But for now he is negative & that is good. Also when I weighed Meeko this morning he was a solid 111 grams!
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/02/07 03:00 PM

Chris I don't mean to hack into your thread but I've been following because I now find one of my boys in this same situation.

Jen how much of a weight loss before I should be concerned? My Jack who is 4yrs is now starting to lose weight & nothing has changed in his diet in 2yrs.I've only had him just over 2yrs & the first year his weight stayed at 120 then the last year he was up to 130. His appetite still seems normal except for an isolated experience about 2-3wks ago.He went 2 nights barely eating- at the same time I gave them this new large toy & as soon as I removed it- he was back to eating normal, so I chalked it up to the new toy.

April Jack weighed his 130
May he went down to 120
And today he's now down to 115 (I weighed him last night and he was 110- but didn't want to go by that because I normally weigh them in the morning and for accuracy I weighed him this am).

So in 2months that's 15grams from a glider who had a steady record of staying the same weight. His buddy Serenity is at 190 and has been there for over 6months. They don't fight over food and both eat together.

edited to add*- Jack had a normal fecal in April.

Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/02/07 03:25 PM

Nancy, I'd recommend getting him in to be tested. With Meeko the only indication that ANYTHING was wrong was the fact that he was loosing weight. Otherwise he seemed perfectly fine, looked great & acted normal. It was only after the bloodwork that we found that he had some kind of infection & was anemic.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/04/07 02:34 PM

Meeko is continuing to gain weight. As of this morning he was 115 grams....when I got him to hold his tail up. When he had it resting on the cage bottom (while sitting on the scale) he was 114 grams.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/05/07 12:34 AM

I spoke with Dr Kaiser today & in light of Meeko gaining weight right now, we have decided to postpone his second bloodtest until he reaches at least 120 grams. Things will be much safer for him then.
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/09/07 03:28 PM

Just wanted to update everyone. On Thursday when I weighed Meeko, he had appeared to have lost a gram & was back down to 116. frown But after weighing him on Friday I think I must have made some kind of mistake with the scale on Thursday, because Meeko weighed in at a whopping 121 grams! He is eating well & is very active.
Posted By: Msdoolittle

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/10/07 06:16 PM

Go Meeko!!! clap
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/11/07 01:03 PM

clap WTG Meeko! smile
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/16/07 02:56 PM

On May 12 Meeko was 105 grams & I was very worried about him. I just weighed him this morning & he was up to 126 grams! dance jump party clap
He has been off antibiotics since Tuesday & for the last few days I have not been giving him lots of extras, just his normal meals & he is continuing to gain! I'm so happy! I'd like to get him up to @ 130 grams & then try to keep him at that weight, because he is looking really really good right now. Not too fluffy & not thin anymore!
Posted By: TracieB

Re: Gradual Weight Loss - 06/16/07 07:49 PM

jump dance Keep it up Meeko! thumb
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