Nicodemus' unkown facial swelling

First off I want to thank every one at the sgga who helped me through this - especially sugarglidersuz, with out your help i don't know what i would have done. Cora you too.

For those of you who weren't there or didn't know,one of my gliders that i had brought with me has as of right now the only thing I can say is an unknown facial swelling. He WAS examined by a vet (Dr Gimre)- here's what he recorded.

Age is thought to be 5 or 6 years old

Weight 84 grams

Symptoms:
Fur yellowed / stained
Matted, watery eyes
Droopy ears

Diagnosis:
Primary possibilities
1) sinusitis - inflammation of a sinus of the skull
2) molar infection
3) impaction
Secondary
possible Glaucoma

Prescription
Deoxacyclene

This was done at the hotel at midnight so there wasn't any specialized tests done. Pretty much an oral exam and a good look at his eyes.

As of now there hasn't been any change in how he is doing - he is still active and isn't dehydrated.

I have a question that i didn't think to ask anybody at the time.
It was recommended that i separate him from his mate so i can have a better idea of how much he is eating (due to the underweight). I have a cage right next to hers, but i wonder if it would be ok or possibly better to put them back together in a single cage in the morning?

I'm going to take him in to our regular vet asap.

I'll keep updating everyone and please keep us in your thoughts and prayers

David, I'm so glad to see that you made it home safely!
Since you are monitoring the food intake only, I would say that it's alright to keep them together during the day time.

I will be keeping your little one in my prayers. Good Luck at the Vets tomorrow.

I am so sorry to hear this David! And I am so sorry I wasn't there for moral support, but it sounds like you had the best of the best there to help out! Keep us updated on Nicodemus!

David - thank you for posting an update! I was just about to PM you. I would, personally, keep them separate for the night (or until he is healthy). BUT, I would let them have supervised playtime together.

Keep us updated and take care.

I have great news!

this morning when i checked everyone, Nicodemus was looking pretty good. The swelling is gone but his eyes were still watering, and slightly matted. I took him in to the vet and he was given another oral exam this time he was anesthetized and i was told no problems with his teeth, they also did an eye pressure test and that was normal as well. Dr. Jordan suspects bacterial conjunctivitis and prescribed antibiotic drops and said to continue with the oral Doxycycline. Hopefully i should start seeing improvement in 3 to 5 days.

I am going to keep him separate during the night until he gains 20 or so grams. I asked Dr. Jordan about keeping them separated for the night so i can more accurately monitor his eating and then putting them back together in the morning he said that should be ok.

once again thanks to everyone who helped me out. I will keep updating until he is well.

That is good news! I'm praying for a full recovery! Keep updating please.

Suz is awesome!!!! will be looking for updates as well!!!!

Hey David. I am glad you made it home safe and sound. It was great to meet you and thanks for the company at Bucca, that was awesome!!!
I am glad to hear your baby Nicodemus is doing better
"We" will keep sending out more prayers for him
It was great to meet you at the SGGA

Pat

That's wonderful news David! I hope that things will heal up quickly for your little fella. Your a wonderful glider daddy!

His eyes are looking almost normal!! any the swelling is completely gone and hasn't returned.

as far as his diet I.m going to start a new thread for that.



Pat it was great meeting you too. I hope to see you again.



I'm trying really hard to be. It makes me feel terrible that i hadn't been paying enough attention to notice his weight loss tho. He use to be a little on the heavy side.

this could be some of the reason he had quit eating,maybe it was too painful for him. i'm also having a problem w/one of my girls not eating as well as she used to,but she checked out all ok,so i am still stumped.
talk @ ya L8R

well the swelling has been gone since Sunday after noon (I checked him at my first gas stop), hopefully he isn't in any pain. he seems to be very picky please see the diet thread what to do when he won't eat fruits or veggies?

David,
Am so glad to hear that Nicodemus is doing better I will let doc know the final verdict. Was great meeting you and I look forward to seeing you and Nicodemus at next year SGGA.

David, We've been keeping up with each other in the PM, but I thought I'd better post here, too I'm so glad that Nicodemus is doing so much better already. Hopefully Dr. Jordan is right about it being conjunctivitis and the drops will take care of the infection. It certainly seems to be helping so far Thanks for the continued updates

Hey David :O)
I was just checking in on Nicodemus and I see Suz's post. Thanks for the update Suz
Glad to hear Nicodemus is doing well

Pat

I just spent an hour searching for Nicodemus' medicine, my cats got up on my desk an knocked it off then they batted it under the couch.
Anyways I've got pictures.

first how he looked the day i got him.
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq1/DavidW_sg/Nicodemus008.jpg
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq1/DavidW_sg/Nicodemus007.jpg
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq1/DavidW_sg/Nicodemus006.jpg

this is yesterday
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq1/DavidW_sg/041.jpg

and today his eyes look really clear
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq1/DavidW_sg/002-1.jpg
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq1/DavidW_sg/001-1.jpg

I also noticed his ears are up again looks like we may be well on the road to recovery

Thank you everyone for your support
I will keep updating.

YEAH Nicodemus' looking good!!!!
I am so glad David. Thanks for the update

Pat

been wondering about your boy!!! Thanks for the update!

YAY! Way to take care of your baby David!

That is great news David! I'm so happy for you and Nicodemus! Your doing a wonderful job with him. Thank you for the update, I had been wondering how he's been doing. And it sounds like he is in the perfect hands!

It was so nice to meet you at the SGGA and I cant wait to see you again next year!

Please keep us updated on how he does.

I'll be there!! wouldn't miss it for the world...

next year I'm going to take everyone to the vet a week before we go, and going to set money a side for emergency vet care.I've learned form this last SGGA.


****I urge everyone to set a side money for emergency vet care if you are traveling with your suggies you never know what might happen, and after hours vet care is really EXPENSIVE!!!!*******

he sure is a cute little guy take good care of him and spoil him

Glad that your baby is doing better.

Glad to hear he is doing better. That last picture of him really shows it.

Keep up the good work and keep loving on that little man.

Hey Dave how's Nicodemus doing? I hope all is well
Pat

I was thinking of him today also Pat!!! I guess great minds think alike!

Dave is such a nice guy. I am glad we go to go to dinner together. I know he was very concerned at the SGGA about
Nicodemus. I hope he is all better now
Pat

He seems to be better but I'm still having trouble get him to eat. I'm still giving him the meds, I've still got 1 more week of them. His ears are not drooping any more and his eyes are clear. I'm going to pick up my scale to night so i can track his wieght.

Pat if you're going to the next sgga we can do it agian. Reguardless of the problems i had, i still enjoyed being there.

I am glad he is doing better but hope he starts eating more.
If I do go next year we will have to do it (Bucca) again and I think we will be able to recruit some other people to join us as well.
Pat

David,
I am so glad see that Nicodemus is doing so much better. I remember reading that some meds can put them off their food for awhile I think I saw some suggestions of other food that works when their gliders were on meds and weren't eating much. Hopefully someone can chime in what those foods were. We will continue to keep you and Nicodemus in ours pray that this trial passes soon for you and him.

I dont remember what the recipe was, but I heard awhile back something that was called glider crack. That suggies loved it! Maybe someone that remembers what glider crack was will come along to help you out David.

It sounds like Nicodemus is doing better. Great job!

I found that recipe and I'm going to try it tomorrow.

Good luck! I hope Nicodemus likes his glider crack. I've never had to use it, thankfully.

Hey David how's Nicodemus' coming along?

Pat

he's active but his eyes are still a concern. I see some kind of a, it's not a crust but some clear matter in his eyes. We're going to go back to the vet and have it looked at. I had to stop giving the oxycycline it has changed color so I'm worried about it.

So, I'm not to sure about how he's doing.

We will be praying for Nicodemus'
Please let us know how the vet visit goes....
Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

I went to the vet today, I suspected it and had it checked for and i was right, Giardia. Bad too, hopefully this is why the weight loss. So now it's Flagyl for 5 twice daily for 10 days, oh I'm going to have so much fun..... I wonder how many times i will get bit. If this turns out not to fix the the problem, it's ex-rays and blood tests.

Oh, poor baby! I hope this will take care of him, once and for all! Sending prayers your way!!!

I got him to the vet today.

they are doing a bacterial culture and sensitivity and fecal centrifugation and giardia testing at an outside lab. I should have results for the centrifugation and giardia by Monday and the culture by Wednesday.

One positive note he has gained 10 grams since his last visit on the 15 of last month.

I'll keep everyone posted on the results as soon as i get them.

Good I'm glad to hear hes doing better update us when test are done.

Come on Nicodemus

I got the first of the results in today!
no giardia or other parasites!!

I was told they didn't even find cysts!!
If this is correct that means it is 100% eradicated
now i just hope they didn't get it from something here....

I hope the cultures will show whats going on.

That is awesome David!!!!
Have a GREAT weekend
Pat

That's awesome news!!!

Woo Hoo Great News!

Way to go Nicodemus!

the rest of the report is in.........

It's Salmonella.

Now I know why he's lost so much weight. I just got the e-mailed lab results from the vet. I'm going to get the meds tomorrow, I bet it's going to be baytril. I even asked the vet if he would put them on a round baytril before we did the culturing.

Ideas on how they got it?
everything food wise is washed before i freeze it.
I don't give them chicken. I rarely eat it myself
The eggs i use in their hpw are cooked thoroughly.

I think that about cover the way to get it right?

Here's a copy of the lab results.

Actually no David, that doesn't cover it. If you aren't using the shell of the eggs, or farm fresh eggs there is very little chance of it coming from eggs anyway. A lot of produce has been recalled in recent years for salmonella, mostly stuff that comes from Mexico. Do you or anyone you are around a lot have any reptiles? What about birds?

That bites as far as having to do antibiotics again. But at least now you have an answer and it CAN be treated! Hope Nic gets better fast!

no birds, no reptiles, no shells, but the produce maybe we live so close to Mexico. I've not seen any recalls tho, and why just one cage and not both?

Well I hope they can get Nicodemus the proper treatment now and get him all better!!!

Pat

Well Now you have the diagnosis and treatment...............good job! Hope he gets well soon. Did you ask your vet how he could have gotten it???? Did he have it when you got him and maybe it manifested itself from the stress of the trip to the SGGA????

I don't think he came with it i've had him for 6 months. Besides I'm pretty sure if he had it when i got him the stress from re-homing would have set it off, right?
I haven't got to talk to the vet, that's tomorrow hopefully i can talk to him and not just one of the techs.....

hmmmmmmmmmmm I dunno...........what I do know is YOU ARE the customer and certainly have the right to ask to talk with the vet.

sometimes I wonder about that with Dr. Jordan. He knows his stuff, but ask anyone that has been to him. here's a quote for someone else that's used him before - "He prefers to gas them in the back and do the exam back there"

Yea well thats OK I guess......... but afterward HE should talk with you..............not a tech................jmo! Or at least by phone if test results are being discussed. My vet always talks with/calls me himself.............as well as with my dog/cat vets too.

I know what you mean, he's the only vet i know like this, my cats vet is super awesome about all of this but she doesn't know any thing about gliders. I'm thinking about going elsewhere after all this is behind us, but for now I'll just work with him. or rather his techs....

I was right it's Baytril all around, and i was right nobody but the techs at the vets office today Well at least we should be on the road to recovery

I dunno if you farm your own mealies or where you get them but the skim milk I was using in my mealie farm bedding was recalled for possible salmonella comtamination... so my mealie farm never even got off the ground! $100 down the tubes and I would have had tons of mealies by now instead of a stinky dead mealie crate that I am dreading cleaning sitting outside

I tried farming them but i never got anywhere with it, I didn't use any powdered milk anyways. I've been getting them from Fluker Farms cause they are super close to me but they only offer the mediums. I switched to Grubco mighty mealies, just have to pay through the nose for shipping.

I don't envy you, I'd just throw the whole stinking mess out.

lol I wanted to save the container, as long as I disinfect that it will be fine. I am going to give it another shot because I am spending way to much $$$ on mealies these days with the shortage.

I've question for anyone who has dealt with Salmonella.

how long did it take on the medication to see any results?

I'm already three days into treatment and Nicodemus still has diarrhea. fortunately he has had any dehydration. I keep checking him, he must think I've gone crazy.

David, I don't know how long it should take before the meds start helping Nicodemus You may want to check with Dr. Jordan to ask if he knows how long it would take with other species

I've sent him an email and i will call him this afternoon. I wonder if maybe he's a carrier and this is not what's wrong with him.

I called the vet this afternoon and according to Dr. Jordan sugar gliders are not able to be carriers of Salmonella. I was told that it might take all the way up to the end of the 10 days to see results.

I had two gliders (cage mates) who were diagnosed with having salmonella. Not only did my vet diagnose it, but she sent the fecals off to a lab to be tested and came back with the same results. They were treated 1 week on, 1 week off, 1 week on. At the end of six weeks, they both had clean fecals, two weeks apart for six weeks. That many fecals was MY idea, not my vet. I'm paranoid. LOL!

That's been well over a year ago, so I'm not sure what medicine they were given. I'll check with my vet tomorrow and find out. I think they were on Bactrim but don't hold me to that. They had diarrhea for about a week to 10 days. I pushed pedialyte to keep them from being dehydrated and sub-q'd twice a day. I also gave them an old-fashioned oatmeal flake each day. They got worse before they got better but, they did get better. The female had two joeys IP and they turned out fine.

I have a feeling that Nicodemus has had this for a while, long enough to lose about 30 to 40 grams. but keep in mind he had giardia as well.

But he's gaining weight and is pretty active, he does sleep more than the rest of my crew but for now I'll chalk it up to being sick for so long.

hopefully we've all ready hit the worst of this.

just curious did you have your vet do a C and S? or just the cultures?

She did a SNAP test and a culture at the same time.

For anyone who was following his troubles, Nicodemus has passed away sometime between 11pm to 1 am.

David, I'm so very sorry Please know that you truly did absolutely everything you could for Nicodemus. My heart, thoughts & prayers are with you

Moving this over to Rainbow Memorials now...

Glide Free, Nicodemus

I am so sorry David. I know you did EVERYTHING one could possibly do for Nicodemus. How heartbreaking
Glide free little Nicodemus

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ

I am so sorry David, I am crying with you this morning. If you need to talk, you have my number.

Glide free Nicodemus, and know that you were loved!

((((HUGS)))) I am so sorry y'all lost the fight David but he knew love................I hope you will find some comfort in that. I lit a candle for your boy.

I am so sorry for your loss David.

David, I am so sorry for your loss. God's blessing of love has taken his frail body away from the pain that he has been living with, and has now brought him home. He's free, living only with the pureness of light which will forever shine in your heart.

My prayers are with you David.

Godspeed precious baby.

Thank you every one. this has been a very long very hard struggle.

Oh David - I am so sorry to hear this! I was pulling so hard for him. You did everything you could for him and he knows he was loved.

I was just reading this hoping for the best until I got to the bottom. I am so very sorry.

I am soooo sorry for your loss of Nicodemus.

There are many strains of Samonellia. Since you had your vet do a C&S the report should have ID'd which type Nicodemus had. Please ask your vet for a copy of the report and also ask him to highlight what type it was.

Also, with a C&S... once the germ is identified... the report also gives a list of meds that the bugs are most sensitive to for proper treatment. This C&S Report will not bring Nicodemus back but it may help give you closure by not leaving so many blanks open as to cause.

Again, I am sorry for your loss.

David,

I am so sorry to hear of little Nicodemus' passing. May your memories of your short time together comfort you in the days to come. Nicodemus knew much love since he came into your life.

Glide Free Nicodemus

Oh, David! I am so very sorry to hear this! You were the best daddy you could be to him. He knew how much you loved him.

Glide free, Nicodemus, over the Rainbow Bridge. You were loved. You will be missed.

I am so sorry for your loss David

Ty to you David and to all that post about suggies who have passed, with yall's stories, its educational for some people like myself and it shows the depths we are willing to go to for our suggies!

David,
We were very sorry to hear of Nicodemus passing over the rainbow bridge. I will forever remember seeing the love you had for him as you held him waiting for the doc. And the faith and love he showed you. He knew he was loved and gave his love back to you. May you always remember the good times and know that he is watching over you for always. Glide Free Nicodemus

I got a card from my vet today, I couldn't believe it!

That card is so sweet!!

I'm so sorry for your loss. Keeping you in my prayers!

David, that card is wonderful! And every comment made by the vets and the staff is absolutely the truth: Nicodemus couldn't have had a more dedicated, loving home than he did with you