GliderCENTRAL

Glider dealing with spinal issue.

Posted By: sandbat

Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/28/08 06:10 AM

Hi, I was actually referred to this forum by Jackie_Chans_Mom for this reason. I have had my glider Cessna for 11 years. Thursday last she was fine...but early in the AM on Friday and before I went to work she started seeming lethargic and wasn't eating. I took her to her regular vet the very next day, and he suggested it might be a stomach issue and perscribed Flagyl. Shortly after I got her home, she stopped using her back legs, period.

I figured it might be HLP, which I have read a lot about. While I give Cessna suppliments like RepCal without Phosphrous and GliderAide, I have had trouble getting her to eat the suggested calcium-rich foods in the past (her favorite foods are basically melon and mealworms.) I took off from work and rushed her to the emergency vet, as the regular vet she'd already seen that day had closed. She was not eating or defecating at this point.

The emergency vet took x-rays and informed me that she had possible swelling, obstruction, or injury in her spinal cord, said grimly that it was all down to age and that she had only days left to live, and even suggested I have her put to sleep! I wanted to give her another chance and maybe get a second opinion, so I asked him for a calcium shot and some oral calcium, and he threw in some medicam as well.

The next morning I took her back to her regular vet first thing, and he gave her some oral steroids to take. A nurse showed me how to stimulate her to go to the bathroom. She is now eating a modified liquid form of the bml diet and boiled egg and eliminating on her own again, thank God! However she is still unable to walk. I got tons of good advice today from Jackie_Chans_Mom, and I am wondering if anyone else has had to deal with an issue like this as well.

This has been a very scary ordeal for both of us, and we are taking it one step at a time.

Thanks in advance!
Posted By: hipbchik

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/28/08 06:29 AM

WOW...I'm so sorry Cessna's having a rough go of it. I've not had to deal with HLP, but I know that a lot of people modify their cages to make them shorter (turning them on their side and such) so that there's less chance of the glider falling, or placing hammocks throughout the cage so if they do fall, they only fall a short distance.

I'm glad you were able to get back to your regular vet who was much more helpful than the ER vet...I hate it when someone's first reaction is "she's old, put her to sleep".

I'm sure there will be others with more experience in this that will post soon...I just want to say hang in there! I'm so glad Jackie_Chans_Mom told you about the forum!

hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/28/08 07:53 AM

What a horrible thing for him/her to say! You wouldn't put your grandmother to sleep from being old...Oh, some people! shakehead

I have no experience either, I jsut wanted to give you a hug2 , and say I was glad you went to your normal vet. People have indeed made special cage changes for gliders with either no back legs, or with HLP. So, hopefully they can come along and post pictures for you! I'm so sorry this happened to your baby. I hope she does ok, keep us informed!
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/28/08 10:52 AM

When my Pika was about 10 years old she came down with HLP. You can read my article about it by going to Hind Leg Paralysis. After changing Pika over to BML (she was also very choosy about the foods she would eat before her diagnosis) and giving her Neocalglucon for quite a while (along with intermittent 3-day treatments with Metacam for the various swellings she had along with it), she survived and lived another 1.5 years heart
If you have any more questions after reading my article, please let me know hug2
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/28/08 01:34 PM

Erin

I am so glad that you made it over here. Please give Cessna huge hugs and mealies from me!

I did want to post a few pictures of some of Jackie Chan's cages, even though I know that you understood what I was explaining yesterday.

Jackie's intermediate cage

Jackie's travel cage

Just a reminder - Pet screen can be found in the door/window department at Home Depot.

Please keep my phone number and give me a call any time.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 12:51 AM

Thanks! laugh I will go get some denim and pet screen for her cage asap.

She started eating mealworms again today, though she started acting like she was either having trouble eating them and balancing at the same time, or she was having a nervous issue (she kept shuffling her front feet and was shaking her head while trying to chew them up. It may have just been that she had always been able to rely on her back legs to balance her, and wasn't able to do so anymore.) I really don't want to aggravate her spinal issue, so I'm wondering if I should just stick with the BML at this point.

I am also wondering if there are wipes I can use to help keep her clean...her poop is still kind of runny, and I am wondering if there is any reason for me to keep up with the flagyl (the vet said it could reduce inflammation, but her poop is kind of sticking to her and I don't want her anal/urinary area to become irritated or infected.)

Thanks again!
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 03:05 AM

You may need to hold her while she's eating her mealies since she will have difficulty with her balance right now.
Also, you can use Cottonelle Fresh Wipes (found near the TP in most stores) to clean her, then wipe her dry with a dry washcloth afterwards. They work really well and are non-toxic for suggies thumb
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 04:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Val, I love the fleece in this pic! Where did you get it!
Posted By: Xglider

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 04:24 AM

I can’t add anything myself … you are getting help from some of the best I know… just wanted to send my support for you both …
Posted By: Their_mommy

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 06:52 AM

Originally Posted By: suggiemom_1980
Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Val, I love the fleece in this pic! Where did you get it!


I would love to get my hands on a couple yards of that as well, it is so cute.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 07:44 AM

Thank you all again! I will grab some of those wipes. I checked her instructions for the flagyl and will call the vet tomorrow and see if they want me to give her any more, because I was only supposed to do it for a week anyway. I am apprehensive about leaving her while I am at work. D: I am just glad she is eating and eliminating on her own now, though I will give her help with the mealworms definitely.\

I'll keep you all posted!
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 10:33 AM

Hun, quite a while ago my Nicky stopped jumping and sitting up. I was worried that he was developing HLP as he wasn't a big eater of BML (picky little guy) Unlike your baby he still had use of his back legs & was still able to walk though. Anyway, after doing x-rays that showed good bone density, my vet put him on a steroid to reduce inflamation. It seems that Nick had strained muscles in his back. Within a few days of being on the medicine, Nick was well on the way to being himself again. I'm hoping & praying that your little one just has strained muscles also & will be on the road to recovery soon. ((((HUGS))))
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 01:08 PM

Erin

I am so glad to hear that she is doing better. You are doing a great job with her.

*sigh* Why does Texas have to be such a huge state? I would love it if we could get together.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/29/08 02:15 PM

Hope Cessna continues to improve. I don't know for sure if this relates to gliders, but I had a German Shepherd that was 13 and went paralyzed in her hind legs. The vet said renal failure causes it. You could ask about it, anyway, as another possibility. I don't know that you could do anything you aren't already, though. Thoughts and prayers your way.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 02:34 AM

Well, she was somewhat shaky this morning. I was told to give the flagyl every other day now, but I am wondering if I should stop giving her the steroids, wait a day, and give her the medicam instead as jackie_chans_mom suggested. I have been giving her the steroids for four days in a row and I'm wondering if that is good for her, or if I should stop (I know with the medicam it's not good to give it to them more than three days in a row.)

She has started eating solid food again, but I am still really freaked out. She managed to have a fall before I could get the glider hammock up (the cage is really only big enough for one.) I also hate leaving her alone in this situation when I have to go to work.

Sorry for spazzing about this here. I will keep you all posted.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 03:15 AM

I would not stop until the vet tells you to, but others on the board have more experience with this. Did you ask the vet about the possibility if renal problems or was she already checked for that?
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 03:19 AM

Neither vet I took her to suggested possible renal problems, but I'll bring it up. Thanks!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 03:29 AM

I really hope that's not it, but It was the first thing I thought of when I read your post. Thoughts and prayers your way.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 03:34 AM

I was looking at the dose you are giving her again...

Edited due to: remainder of post deleted due to giving med dosages ~ Suz
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 03:35 AM

Yes it is. That was all they told me to give her. I am just wondering if I'm giving her too much. I will call tomorrow.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 03:41 AM

That's probably right, but I'd still ask the vet what he/she thinks considering her size and age and everything.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 04:35 AM

Flagyl is an ANTIFUNGAL medication. This is why I suggested you talk to your vet about an antiinflammitory.

You should not make any medication changes without consulting with your vet first.

You are still welcome to call me any time. Though, I may be busy playing with my new squirmal, I can still take your call.
Posted By: the gliders angel

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 04:48 AM

in order to say she has hlp that only can be diagnosed with an x ray. to me it sounds like a bacteria which hlp can be caused by the bacteria. i would change meds if you dont see improvement within 3 to 4 days. like baytril the shakeyness makes me think of bacterial issues. and then the hlp can come along from it. did the vet do a urine culture and sensitivity? that will tell u what bacteria she has and what med will treat it. but she would need to be off meds for 3 days before a test like that can be run. im glad u didnt put her down. this problem needs to get to the root of it. and solved one step at a time.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 04:52 AM

I did ask him about the flagyl, and he seems to think she should still be on it. I am not sure why. I will call him again tomorrow. Thank you for all of your help so far.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 04:57 AM

Yeah, both vets seem to agree it's a spinal issue now. The only problem is that the medicines they've given me to correct it might clash very badly (medicam and steroids.) My regular vet was the one who prescribed me the steroids, and I am going to call him tomorrow for a follow-up.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 08/30/08 11:01 PM

Ok, I talked to the vet this morning about the meds, and he wants me to give the flagyl less often but keep up with the Steroids and then bring her back in Tuesday for a checkup. I told him I had medicam, but he told me to keep up with the steroids for now.

Her clocal area has become inflamed and irritated due to the fact that she just can't keep herself clean like she used to, and her stool, while not exactly runny, is soft enough that it is sticking to her skin and fur. The vet told me to use diaper rash ointment on this area. I am using the cotonelle wipes as well to try and keep that area as clean as possible. My mom is helping me out with her today while I am at work. Any further advice regarding any of these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/02/08 06:30 PM

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses. Cessna is doing a whole lot better. I am taking her back in for a checkup soon, and I will let you all know what happens.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/03/08 01:07 AM

Great, and glad we could help. Please do let us know.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/03/08 06:04 PM

Her regular vet gave her a steroid shot yesterday and said she was improving very well. She has started to use her right hind leg to balance and propel herself with, but is still having trouble with her left one. I am going to keep working with her.

When I think that the emergency vet wanted to put her to sleep, I am absolutely livid. I am never going to that emergency vet for anything ever again!
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/07/08 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: sandbat
The vet told me to use diaper rash ointment on this area. I am using the cotonelle wipes as well to try and keep that area as clean as possible.


What kind of diaper rash ointment are you thinking of using? Neosporin has been used safely with gliders or even the A&D type of ointment.

I pm'd you about the possibility of helping to care for Cessna while your at work.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/07/08 08:07 PM

I am alternating between neosporin and A+D, which was recommended by my vet Dr. Ahumada in Dallas. Right now she has an ecollar, as she has been chewing her feet. Dr. Ahumada also recommended compresses at two minute intervals for her feet, and I am also trying to keep them clean as possible as some of them have been chewed hard enough to draw blood.

I will now check your PM. Thanks!
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/12/08 07:10 AM

Well, the vet said I could try to remove the collar today...and she went straight for her feet again. >.< I am still treating with Neosporin, and a spray the vet gave me to use that it supposed to help the feeling return to her feet as well as making them not taste good, hopefully deterring the chewing. It's not really helping.

The ecollar he gave her flares out too much, and she's been tipping over on her back like a turtle. I have checked out some of the ecollar patterns and will try to modify it or make my own for her.

I am camped out by her cage on my days off, but I just feel horrible right now because I can't stay with her during the days I have to work. I know now that I should have gotten her a cagemate a long time ago, but I was actually told a vet that they attack each other(!) which I now know isn't true. She shows so many signs of hanging in there - eating well, getting over her "diaper rash" issues for the most part, and regaining a lot of movement in her feet and tail. If only she'd stop trying to chew them!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/12/08 07:24 AM

hug2

Your doing a great job taking care of her, hang in there!

If she keeps chewing, just dont take off the ecollar..It isnt worth the risk. If you modify it, just be sure she can still eat and drink, but make sure that she cant get to it in any way.

Just wanted to give you some more support! It's not your fault you have to work. Maybe after shes doing better, you can think of getting her a friend grin
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/12/08 03:04 PM

Erin
You are doing great with her.

Remember, this going after her feet is actually a good sign. It is sad that their response to it is so disasterous. But, she is regaining use of her legs and that is GOOD.

Keep her in the collar until she is fully recovered. I know you don't want to hear that, but it is really necessary. You do not want to start down the road of repeated SM and repeated surgeries like Jackie Chan experienced.

Don't hesitate to call if you need to.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/12/08 08:12 PM

The ecollar pattern I printed out and made was too small. the collar she got from the vet is a modified bird collar. I tried covering the sharp edges with electrical tape, but she's managed to tear two of her claws already. The vet says they should grow back, but it's terribly distressing. D: My biggest fear is of her tipping over again and being unable to reach food and water while I am at work, though she did appear to right herself after tipping over this morning. I left her some of her liquid mix in a tube feeder, confirmed she can reach her water as long as she's upright, and she did eat her mealies and some more grapes and mix and 25 ml of pedialyte this morning.

One - the only - positive thing from this is that she's having to use her back legs to balance herself, putting them back into use again.

I know this is preferable to coming home to find her bleeding from SM, but I'm still so worried. frown
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/12/08 08:25 PM

I believe you can get one with snaps from TGI, and I bet they would overnight it to you!
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/12/08 11:01 PM

I think she actually has one of those, and I ended up trimming it down a whole lot because she was unable to walk and kept tipping over on her back. Is this one meant specifically for gliders?
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 09/14/08 12:35 AM

Well, the modifications to the collar I made seem to be helping her move around better, and she seems ok. She does keep trying to go for her feet though. D: I am hoping for a resolution to this...the collar is working for now, but if this is going to be long term she will need a better one. I will see what I can come up with if I can't buy one.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/01/08 05:42 AM

Hi there,

I just wanted to update everyone on what has been going on with Cessna. She has some of her tail movement back, but I have been having trouble keeping her ecollar on her. Friday she managed to get it off again, and chewed two of her toes pretty badly. She went to the emergency vet and is on meds for pain and possible infection, but now she also has what I thought were cataracts and what the emergency vet says are ulcerations. She is on topically-administered medicine for this and the lacerated toes, but I am wondering what else might be causing the eye issues.

Basically, She has a film over her corneas with some white spots. I am looking up some causes for these issues, and am wondering if it isn't liver-related. I found that someone suggested artichokes in another thread and will try that tonight. the ecollar is finally on for good (I found out how she was pulling it off and taped it closed there.) Her urine screening from a week and a half ago showed no problems. How do we tell if she has liver issues?

I also talked with the breeder I originally got her from back in 1997, who told me that she was already a year old when I got her (meaning she was born in 1996) making her nearly 13 years old. The emergency vet, her breeder, and the person I am having sit for her while I am at work all tell me it's perhaps just age and I might be prolonging her suffering, but I don't want to give up on her. Nor do I want her to suffer. I just feel badly about this whole situation.

I also found this:

http://www.swanimalhospital.net/html/sugar_glider.html

I'm going to go boil some eggs for her RIGHT NOW, considering they are a good source of B1. Any other advice would be seriously appreciated. I would like to thank Jackie_Chans_Mom again also for all of her great support and advice over the phone.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/01/08 02:08 PM

Erin
I am always happy to help out when I can.

In her condition, I don't know how much you should put her through. BUT, if she has to be anesthetized anytime soon, please have them take some blood while she is under. A blood panel will tell you a lot about her liver function. During urinalysis, they should be able to tell you how her bilirubin (sp?) looks - which will give you some indication of her liver functioning.

I know that Peggy's vet - Dr. Tristan - has made some suggestions of supplements in the past to address liver functioning. I think it would be worth it for your vet to consult with him. His phone number is 361-994-1145 (but remember, he will only consult with other vets).

13 years is a long, happy life - and a testament to the love and care you provide for her. I understand the "not wanting to let her go" part. I hope that you are planning for the worst, though - just so that you are prepared. When you feel up to it, please review this thread:
Why Necropsies are important

I think of Cessna every day and I just love the encouraging updates you give me on her. Keep loving that baby - and sharing with us what you have learned.
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/01/08 09:01 PM

Thanks. She saw her normal vet this morning, and her feet have scabbed up without any sign of necrotic tissue. However, she has been very lethargic today.

I am having to come to terms with the fact that maybe it is just age, and that I should be ready to accept whatever happens. I'm still working with her. I will keep the information in that link in mind...gliders still are relatively new animal companions, and I know there is still a lot of learning to be done.
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/02/08 10:32 AM

With my Pika & Cricky I had to make the decisions that they had lived enough and were ready to go... their suffering had become too great. It was very hard to make those decisions, but I just KNEW when they were ready. For Cricky, that was in Nov '06 and for Pika that was Mar '07 heart You will know if it comes time for your little one hug2
Posted By: sandbat

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/15/08 06:43 PM

Cessna passed away early Saturday morning around 6AM. Somehow she got out of her ecollar while I was at work, and her babysitter was out for a short while. She chewed the foot she's been trying to get to down to the bone. The emergency vet told me that at her advanced age and with the other complications that were starting to show up, she did not think she'd make it through anesthesia - and with the ecollar on she was constantly in distress.

We had the most trustworthy ecollar on that I'd gotten, and even now we are not sure how she got out of it. She was euthanized around 6AM by the emergency vet.

I feel horrible, like I let her down. She had twelve years, and her normal vet told me that she was literally the oldest glider he'd ever seen before. I am still trying to deal with this, and it's really hard with her not being here anymore.

I'd like to thank you all for your help and advice during the past month. I really do appreciate it.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/15/08 06:58 PM

I am so very sorry for your loss......
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/15/08 09:23 PM

I know how hard it is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/15/08 09:59 PM

I'm very sorry for your loss. worried
I truly know how bad you must be feeling (been there...) but you did the right thing.
No matter how much time it pass... Cessna will be always in your heart! mlove heart
Treasure all the sweet memories you have of all those wonderful years spent together. mlove
My prayers are with you. hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/15/08 10:08 PM

I just read your post -I am really sorry for your loss - In your heart you know you did all you could for your baby - I'll say a prayer for your whole family tonight and I'm sure their are alot of fuzzy's waiting at the end of the "Rainbow Bridge" to greet your baby -

Beezer
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Glider dealing with spinal issue. - 10/15/08 10:23 PM

Erin - you did NOT let Cessna down. You have been a faithful fighter for her for months. When we last spoke, you seemed to know that the end was coming for her. Maybe she was trying to tell you that she was ready to go. She knew she was loved and she was just ready to go. She DID have a long, happy life with you. You were a great mommy to her.

Please call me if you need/want to.
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