GliderCENTRAL

I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma

Posted By: kittybaran

I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/19/09 05:22 PM

Hello,

I need Help! Is there anyone out there who has had to deal with biliary adenocarcinoma? The pathology lab that worked the tissue samples have stated that bile duct tumors are common amoung sugar gliders under 4 years of age. They did a survey. Mine are around 7 years. Pip died and because of that I took his brother for a check up. (I'm the one who has the hemolytic anemia in the group.) He had been in for blood work because of a recent past history of elevated liver enzymes. He was on Prednisoe and an Doxy. In three weeks he went from what was not plapable to a large tumor and exploritoy surgery was done. A mass was found connecting his liver and gallbladder and attached to his abnominal wall. The tumor tumor and tissue removed was abount the size of the last joint in your thumb to the tip. His prognosis is poor. Pip's necropsy showed abnormaility in tissue and hypertrohy, as well as a decresae in the size of one kidney, but his tissue cells were not cancerous, but something was going on because he is dead. The conclusion by my vet who has been dealing with this issue of mine for around 10 months of so has said that there is a strong correlation between the caging wire I bought to make the big cages for glider happiness. I'm ditching the wire and am looking for stainless steel. I'm hopeing for some used stuff, possibly from a zoo or some other animal sactruaries that are doing some remodeling or down grading. So I would greatly appreciate any input from others dealing with this type of cancer and anyone who might know where I can get the stainless steel wire. I'm trying to get it as cheap as possible because I've already spent around $16,000 (on vet bills on the animals, primarily the Gliders, plus there is the future medical bills in trying to stop this disease before it gets to the severity of which takes life. If this disease progression can't be stopped I'm looking at doing hospice and euthenasia for half or more of my glider population. Feel free to e-mail me direct at kittybaran@hotmail.com or call me at 480(695-0402) or just post it here - I need to save my gliders. Kitty
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/19/09 05:33 PM

I'm so sorry to hear about your gliders' health problems! I don't know where to get good cheap wire, but have you considered reptariums? That's a really cheap way to get a lot more space for your dollar if your gliders don't have a bad chewing habit.

Hope you find what you're looking for!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/19/09 05:55 PM

I'm really sorry to hear this. Just as a question (and sorry if this sounds insensitive), what cage wire did you use to make the big cage? I'm considering building a cage and if one type of wire can cause health problems, I'd really like to know. If it's too much to ask, I COMPLETELY understand. You're dealing with a lot right now.

I'm new here, but you have all my sympathy and well-wishes.
Posted By: dranger1108

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/19/09 06:12 PM

I've made cages out of the pvc coated cage wire that they sell at homedepo.
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/19/09 07:32 PM

I've made cages out of the shelving material at Home Depot or Menards or Lowe's. The only down side to that concept is that it's HEAVY once you get the cage constructed. I used nylon "cable clamps" to hold the pieces together. They were HUGE, rather inexpensive to make, and could be taken part easily for cleaning.

As far as who you could turn to for advice/input, 3 names come to mind: Dr. Fitzgerald @ Alameda Animal Hospital West (think Animal Planet/Emergency Vets...in New Mexico?) or SRLB's vet Dr. Tristan (don't remember where he hails from...) or Val's doctor (can't even remember HIS name) in Tulsa, OK. Sorry to be so vague; my mind is having MAJOR lapses today.
Posted By: USMom

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/19/09 08:57 PM

Dr Tristan is in Portland, TX and Val's vet is Dr Walsh in Tulsa.
Posted By: kittybaran

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/27/09 08:55 PM

I can not be the only person on the forum here that is dealing with cancer and sugar gliders. Will someone here please give me some input on cancer and gliders or specifically adenocarcinomas and gliders

Kitty
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/27/09 10:14 PM

sending you a PM
Posted By: USMom

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/27/09 10:21 PM

Kitty, the only cancer I've seen in gliders, 2, has been post mortem. One was ovarian cancer, and the other was liver cancer.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/27/09 10:31 PM

Dr. Fitzgerald is at Alameda East in Colorado - can't remember the # though - But it is Denver Colorado -

Sue
owned buy &
mom to
Posted By: Cora

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/27/09 11:20 PM

so sorry you are dealing with this. The only cancer I have personally experienced was Lymphoma. The glider didnt make it.
Posted By: SweetGliders

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/28/09 06:27 AM

Hi,
I have dealt with several gliders whom I have lost to cancer.

A few years ago I lost one of my gliders named: Diddles. She died from Adreanal Gland Cancer (spelling ?) (my vet said this was very rare in gliders)

Then here recently I lost another glider named Leah to Salivary Gland and Lymphoma Cancer (spelling ?).

And Cheryl from Tulsa another GC member, lost her baby Mattie to Mammory Gland Cancer.

I think more people are having alot more necrospy's done now then in the past and we are finding out that more gliders out there are having & dying from several different types of Cancers.

I wish I could tell you more.

Anita heart

P.S. - My vet is Dr. Paul Welch in Tulsa, OK. 918-299-8448 maybe he could answer some questions for you.


Posted By: chattrbabe

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/28/09 07:20 AM

Kitty, I am going to call you tomorrow. I live nearby, and though I don't have any experience with Cancer in suggies, I can help you find new cages all over the place here. Either way, I'll call you or you can call me. I'll send you a PM with my number in it. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/28/09 09:13 AM

Ok I found the number to Dr Fitzgerald at Alamda East Vet Hospital in Colorado (303) 366-2639.
I am not sure how you would be able to tale to him but this is the phone number and maybe it will help you some.
Good luck and I am sorry to hear that all of your suggies are sick!!!!
You are all in my prayers!!! smile
Posted By: kittybaran

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/29/09 04:42 PM

That is interesting, sad but, interesting. The cancers you mentioned in your reply are adenocarcinomas, cancers involving the epithelial tissue, glandular tissue and their accompanying organs. The study done by the lab that processed my glider's tissue samples said that billiary adenocarcinomas were common in gliders under the are of 4 yrs, maybe it is not just billiary adenocarcinoma, but a more general adenocarcinoma. I wonder if gliders develop the problem in the wild or have we in their captivity contributed someway to the development of the this type of cancer? Something to think about. Kitty
Posted By: kittybaran

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/29/09 04:57 PM

THe above was in response to the "sweet glider" from Tulsa input. By the way, thanks to those of you who have given input. I am quite devastated by what is occuring. My gliders are currently on Prednisone, Doxy, CoQ10, Milk thislte (if anyone has anyway to make milk thistle taste better let me know. The gliders find it pretty impalatable) Sam-E, Urosol(I don't remember how to spell it, but is is suppose to help detoxify some of the bile that is released making less work for the liver. I'm waiting for an e-mail from a molecular biologist that I've spoke to in the past about naturally occuring heat shock protein co-inducers.

(Im looking for Italian licorise extract info if anyone has heard of it drop a line please.)

Heat shock proteins occur naturally in the body and they come out only under extreme cellular stress. The idea of a co-inducer is that it intices the HSPs to stay out longer and do more cellular repair. Hence my interest in trying out on my gliders.
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: I need to save my gliders - biliary adenocarcinoma - 05/29/09 06:34 PM

Ensure is great to cover up bad tasting medicine, it might help. dunno

Have the vets found that all of your gliders are having this problem, or just one of them? I would be careful with long term prednisone given to healthy gliders as it can mess up their immune system (whether they are healthy to begin with or not). As I said in PM, Kira was on prednisone for a while and I do believe it helped her, BUT she has a chronic problem now, we think due to the long term use of prednisone on her system.

I am so sorry that you and your gliders are going through this. I hope that you can find something to help them. hug2
Posted By: kittybaran

cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/23/09 07:51 PM

Hello All,
Geo went to the oncologist yesterday (one of my billiary adenocarcinoma gliders). and all hope is not lost. He is taking his previously prescribed meds plus some Chineses herbs prescribed by the oncologists and she has found a chemo drug that she believes will not be harmful to the gliders and can be given orally vs the IV route. We are hoping that the herbs work and we can avoid the chemo, but that depends on the results of todays blood work. She is also going to try to get into contact with a vet oncologist in Austriala who may have worked with other marsupials with cancer,and perhaps gain some more insight into the treatment of cancer in sugar gliders. So, for any who are dealing with cancer in their gliders do not lose hope for there is still some. I will post the chinease herbs and the intent of their use is when I am next on the computer. Plus I let you guys know if Geo has to go thru Chemo and how he responds to it. I am praying I do not have to post the chemo results. Anyone who has questions pertaining to how my gliders are being treated for their cancer and can't wait until next time I am on feel free to call me at 480 695-0402. We are also looking at the possibility of treating the cancer profolatively (however you spell it) Since we are not sure as to weather the cancer is secondary to something else. [censored]! I just got the call, the tumor has regrown close to it's previous size in Geo and Pesta now has a mass as well. Both are going to surgery today and it looks like we are going the chemo route. I guess we will learn about Chemo and sugar gliders after all. Prayers please.
Posted By: ozzi

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/23/09 08:25 PM

I am so sorry to hear that the tumor has grown back.upset
Prayers going out for you and Geo and Pesta angel

Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ angel
Posted By: Cora

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/23/09 10:30 PM

my thoughts and prayers are with you. Thank you so much for your post which may help others. I would definitely be interested in knowing if cancer is prevelent in Australian gliders. And what preventive/curative measures(if any) are available and effective.
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/23/09 11:14 PM

I am so sorry you and your gliders are going through this.
I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but here is a post about one of our members having her glider treated with chemo medication. Fawkes had lymphoma, so I know that is a different kind of cancer. But if they may be of some help, here they are;
There are 4 parts - I wasn't sure what you wanted to know, so here is Part 1: http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/604611/1
Here is the link to the first post she starts discussing Elspar, the chemo med her vet used; http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...rt_3#Post622460
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/24/09 01:12 AM

so sorry to hear abt. the tumors returning.
prayers are sent to you and your babies.

regards,
nancy

p.s. i know cancer cells love sugar in any form and
cant survive in oxygen. i am familiar
with cancer/alternative treatments (daughter).
Posted By: Feather

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/24/09 01:31 AM

Prayers and good thoughts going out to you and your gliders. Poor babies having to be subject to chemo with their little bodies. I watched my mom suffer with it when she was sick.

Thinking of you and your gliders.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/24/09 02:48 PM

frown how sad! I hope the treatments work for your babies!
Posted By: kittybaran

GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/25/09 06:41 PM

My vet has been in contact with a Dr in Calf. at the howard Hughes Medical Center. When he heard of my gliders billiary adenocarcinoma (basically it can be lumped under liver cancer) he was exited. At least someone is. Well this Dr, and I can not remember his name right now is doing research on the liver cancer with the theory that many of the liver cancers are due to viruses that have yet to be detected with the current methods used. This research is for people, but it may help the gliders with cancer first, since they are to be the animal subject of this phase of the study. What he needs is liver tissue from gliders with both healthy and unhealthy livers. The healthy ones of course are the baseline comparisons or control group.
The exotic lab that did the original work on my gliders tissue samples has told my vets that they did a study and the results indicated that liver cancer is common is sugar gliders. The symptoms can be minimal and then they crash. Necropsys are expensive, so who knows how many gliders have died from this disease unbeknownst to their owners. To get to the point.....
WE NEED LIVER TISSUE SAMPLES!
If anyone is sadley having a necropsy done on thier glider could you have the vet take a liver tissue sample and preserve it for shipment to Calf. Also if your glider is haveing liver problems and you are having a biopsy done could you have your vet save a sample for the study.
If you wish to participate in this, hopefully life saving study for glider and human alike please have your vet contact my vet for further instruction on preserving and shipping. The Dr. at the HH Medical Center is paying for the shipping and the testing, and you will have access to the results of your gliders samples with no extra cost to you.
My vet is Dr. Kevin Wright at the Arizona Exotic Animal Hospital. He has been practicing exotic animal medicine for over 20 years and has over 150 publications in the field of exotic medicine and husbandry. He has also presented over 200 talks at national and international veterinary conferences. He is a member of: Association of Avian Vet, Association of Exotic Mammal Vets, Association of Reptilian and Amphibian Vets and the American Association of Zoo Vets. He also recieved the Exotic Vet of the Year Award last year. To sum it up he is a darn fine and dedicated vet! I strongly encourage all of you who are in a position to help my vet and the reasearcher at Howard Hughes medical center to participate in this study. It may save the lives of our gliders and gliders to be, as well as the lives of family and friends alike.
Dr. Wrights phone number is (480) 275-7017 FAX (480) 284-5045. Web:arizonaexoticanimalhospital.com Dr Jay Johnson is the other vet I work with there. Another great vet (i'm truly blessed) I just don't have the info about him on me. Please help the gliders!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/25/09 06:50 PM

sounds like you have a remarkable group of vets in your corner! I certainly hope that through others' tragedies, the glider community can live to see treatments and cures by way of research!

Thanks for sharing the information with the GC community!
Posted By: kittybaran

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/25/09 07:08 PM

Hey thanks for the prayers and thoughts everyone. Gretchen, thank you for the previous posts. I'm going to talk to my vet oncologist about some of the med/vitamins mentioned.
Geo is doing well - considering. Pesta is having problems. She spent the night in critical care at a neighboring 24 hour vet hospital with a IO catherter sutured in place, and very specific instrutions on what to do if... They were also given his cell phone to call if something went wrong during the night. God, I love my vets! She has some internal bleeding going on. My vet thinks that when she threw up (reaction to Ketamine injection I gave her in the morning) that she blew out a blood plug so to speak, from the abdominal movements of barfing. Between that and the blood loss she is hypovolemic (decreased blood volume)so she is a bit shocky. He uesed a couple of meds to help stop the bleed, Ladicaine and something else. I pick her up this morning from the 24 hr place and took her back to my Docs to be monitored. She is still not really stable so I imagine that we will delay the chemo treatment at least on her for awhile. Thanks again for the prayers we certainly need them Kitty
Posted By: SugareeErin

Re: cancer surgery, herbs and chemo for gliders - 06/25/09 07:27 PM

Awww poor baby is going through so much. gangel Many hugs and prayers to you! I hope that she startes feeling better soon and the treatments help! hug2 hug2
Posted By: ozzi

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/25/09 07:54 PM

I have printed this out to give to my vet.
Thank you....Pat
Posted By: Srlb

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/25/09 09:51 PM

I also have been talking with some folks about this. Dr.Tristan is also involved in this study that is being done and has asked for some help.

I am in hopes we can get some answers.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/26/09 05:01 PM

After speaking with Dr.Tristan today, this is what he would like for me to put out there for him.

Dr. Tristan has been in contact with Dr. Wright in Arizona and UCDavis in regards to a few recent cases of liver disease/tumors in gliders. To investigate the condition more in depth, they are looking for liver biopsies and liver samples from gliders with AND without liver disease. If you want to see if you have a glider that may be able to qualify for the study, please contact Dr. Tristan at 361-994-1145. Information on other gliders will not be discussed until the projects completion.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/26/09 05:27 PM

Wow, I am so glad that people are working on this. The liver problems really are becoming a growing, silent epidemic in sugar gliders. It's great that somebody is willing to study it.

I will be giving this info to my vet and also saving a copy. My gliders are currently in good health, but if they were to pass on, I would want them to be involved in the study if it's still ongoing. I think this work is so important.

Can you ask the vets more about how the gliders would need to be preserved, and then post here? Really, we are unlikely to get gliders that could be part of the study unless people have this information in advance and have it in mind. Not to be morbid, but bodies start to deteriorate quickly after death, and by the time a phone call or email is returned, it might be too late to then use the glider in the study. If there is a record of what to do before hand, then a glider owner could properly preserve their glider so it could be part of the study.

Again, sorry to be graphic, but I know it can be a tricky issue with necropsies. By the time many people decide they want a necropsy, the body is too far gone to make accurate determinations from the necropsy...it's something we need to educate people about in advance.

Thanks again for spreading the word hug2
Posted By: Srlb

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/26/09 05:59 PM

Jen, actually that is a very important point. It was noted once before, but can never be noted too many times:

When you loose a glider, if it is possible, please place your glider in a ziplock baggie and get it to your vet as soon as possible for a necropsy.

If it is possible to get your glider in within 12 hours of death for a necropsy, you will be able to get a much better report, however, you do have up to 24 hours.

If you find the glider and you know it will be several hours prior to getting them to a vet, please place your glider in the refridgerator, NOT THE FREEZER. Keep it in there until you are able to transport it to your vet.

Jen, I will ask Tristan exactly what he would be needing and post it here.

It is graphic and it is VERY hard to deal with, however, having a necropsy done is VERY IMPORTANT on finding answers to help the gliders that are still living.

I can only pray the community is willing to help in any way they can.

If someone says they can not afford a necropsy, they need to get in touch with the Sugar Glider Research Group immediately as they do have a program to help in that area.
Posted By: kittybaran

Pesta dies & Geo starts chemo (cyclophosphamide) - 06/27/09 06:46 PM

Pesta lost her battle with cancer yesterday. I had to teach a class and I could not find my last syringe to give her some sub-Q fluids before I left, and I just had a poor general impression about her so I dropped her off at a secondary vet that I use who is not as good as my regular, but I trust them to be competent and they are alot closer to where I live. I rushed over there with quick instructions and ran off to teach. During the class they called me to tell me that she had gone into cardiac arrest, but they had revived her and she was alert and resting. By the time I got there about 2 hr later she had died. I had my regular vet do the necropsy and he said that all was healing well and the internal bleeding had completly stopped, but he thinks her liver was just too involved. I feel bad for putting her thru so much only to die before getting an oportunity to try chemo and all the herbs. Good bye my sweet Pesta. Mean while Geo began chemo yesterday and I was suprised that he did not mind the drug at all. Took it like a real tropper. I hope he does not lose his hair. It would be kinda funny to have a naked glider though. We dropped the milk thistle because it did not seem to work and could interfere with the chemo. I'm glad of that because Geo really hated the milk thistle no matter what I mixed it with. I took three more gliders in: Lolly, FS and Kazi. They have had mild liver enzyme changes just a couple of weeks ago, but the cancer is so fast that I want to know what is going on right now. We are discussing the possibility of using chemo profolactively in order to perhaps arrest the development of the disease hopefully before it becomes the true cancer or at lease before it affect the organs. I just don't think we have the time to wait to see if the herbs alone will help...I really don't want to lose anymore sweeties.

The chemo drug we are trying is cyclophosphamide plus the Wei Qi Booster, Max Formula and Liver Happy
Posted By: kittybaran

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/27/09 07:33 PM

The Dr at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute is Dr. DeRisi. I looked at some of the web stuff. I guess he is head of the DeRisi Lab. There is a bunch of articles on cancer put out by the DeRisi labs there. He appears to be quite a knowledgeable and busy gentleman. (derisilab.ucsf.edu) In reference to preserving, if your glider dies at home keep him/her on ice, but not frozen and get them to the vet ASAP if not STAT.

Ive been in the situation of dealing with research labs and experimental drugs before when I was trying to find a drug to cure or at least slow the progression of my Mom's ALS. I really did not think I would find myself involved again and in an illness so different. I can not emphasize the importance of participation in this study, not just for the gliders but people as well. Liver Cancer is a prevalent disease in people. I personally know 4 people, 2 dead and 2 transplants. Who knows, God forbid, but some day it may be myself or one of you. And would it not be nice to take medicine to treat the problem and not have to go thru a transplant(if you were fortunate enough to get one) and all the complications of that business. Because viruses due cause cancer, i.e. HPV which is a well known fact, its also thought to be the cause of arthritis, heart disease, and may more diseases, therefore it seems resonable that liver cancer, which is prevalent may also be caused by viruses. Which many researcher do believe. Right now, and I'm not positive on the number I asked my brother who is on the road right now and whose wife if a liver transplant pt. and he thinks the known number of people waiting for transplants is 1800. It is probably higher, but even so many of those will not get thier desired transplant before they die.

I can not emphasize enough how important it is to participate in drug studies when you are in a postition to do so. I don't know, maybe you really have to go thru the experiance and watch the people and animals you love suffer only to die a misirable death to truly understand the need for research, especially when one is just dropped at your door step. I besiege you, please help our gliders and our loved ones by participating if you are in the miserable postition to do so. I mean just think, if this pans out and new insight is gained about liver cancer your gliders death or illness was not invain. Their lives would not just be solely our own personal sarrow and memories. Heck they would be little super heros gliding to save man and glider alike. Lets make our little gliders heros - we need more heros
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Pesta dies & Geo starts chemo (cyclophosphamide) - 06/27/09 07:54 PM

I am so sorry to read about Pesta and I'll pray for Geo -

Sometimes life is tough and we just have to take the good with the bad - but you seem to be having nothing but bad -

I'm sure he'll be okay - he needs to stay with you and be loving and caring - since Pesta went "Over the Rainbow Bridge"

RIP sweet Pesta

Sue
owned by &
mom to
Posted By: Feather

Re: Pesta dies & Geo starts chemo (cyclophosphamide) - 06/27/09 09:55 PM

I am sorry to read that little Pesta lost her battle with Cancer. I hope that Geo does good on Chemo.

Glide Free little Pesta.

Deepest Sympathy,
Posted By: Cora

Re: Pesta dies & Geo starts chemo (cyclophosphamide) - 06/27/09 10:12 PM

(((((HUGS))))) so sorry you are going through this.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: GLIDER LIVER TISSUES NEEDED FOR CANCER RESEARCH! - 06/28/09 01:53 AM

Thank you for posting this. 2 of my 3 gliders just died from an unknown liver disease. This is so important!! I have forwarded this information to my vet.
Posted By: ozzi

Re: Pesta dies & Geo starts chemo (cyclophosphamide) - 06/29/09 02:05 PM

cry I am so very sorry cry
Glide free little Pesta. I hope all goes well with Geo angel

Pat
Posted By: kittybaran

Geo OK, Lolly exploratory surgery ,PVC the suspect - 07/02/09 08:30 PM

Little Lolly(she only weighs 72) has exploratory surgery today. She had blood work 3 weeks ago and the week following the blood work I wanted her to have more blood drawn. I just had a bad feeling about her, but they said that she just had it done and that it was too soon. Well I took her in again after Pesta died and they did the blood work and she had elevated liver enzymes, the bile acids had not shot up yet, but the liver enzymes precede the bile acids so.....off to exploratory surgery she went. Hopefully the vet can remove the cancer before it destroys the liver and with chemo we can save her. I've talked to the oncologist when I took Geo and Pesta in about treating the gliders with chemo without going to surgery since we know what the progression of the diesease is like. Why not treat them before the tissue damage is done and the cancer is ramped and just avoid major surgery. She said she had not heard of that being done, but did not rule it out. I called her today to press her on the subject, but I've yet to hear back. I left her a message on monday because I was thinking about the situation, its never far from my mind, you don't get and die of the same cancer at the same time as your parent does! The probablity is low for one occurence, but for multiples? No. The oncologist said that she also believed that it was an outside influence that led to the development of the cancer, but that there is a genetic suseptablity factor as well. She believes as does my regular vet, Dr. Wright, that the cage wire is most likely the cause of the toxic exposure. The big cages are going untill I find stainless steele! Geo seems to be doing OK. He got the e-collar off yesterday and I know he is happy about that. The tumor regrew in about a month so we will see what the blood work shows the friday after next. I'm praying.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Geo OK, Lolly exploratory surgery ,PVC the suspect - 07/02/09 08:45 PM

I am so sorry that your little babies have to be going through this. Hopefully soon, they will be able to determine the cause and prevent things from spreading any further.
I will continue to keep you and your babies in my thoughts and prayers. hug2
Posted By: kittybaran

Re: Geo OK, Lolly exploratory surgery ,PVC the suspect - 07/02/09 10:58 PM

Lolly survived the surgery and her gallbladder looked competely normal. He took it out anyways. Her liver had spots in a few areas and he took samples to send to the path lab and for the cancer research over at Howard Hughes Medical Institute. Maybe the problem arises directly from the liver and not the gallbladder. The gallbladder involvment is secondary. That would back the idea that the culprit is a toxins of some sort,or possibly a virus and not merely a genetic problem.
The oncologist does not want any of the chemo drugs given to the others until Geo's blood work is taken again because she does not know if the gliders will have an unforseen side effect that is harmful in itself.
Posted By: SariYappa

Re: Geo OK, Lolly exploratory surgery ,PVC the suspect - 07/02/09 11:54 PM

I'm so sorry for you and your little babies! I'm glad Lolly came through this one! hug2

What actual cage do you have, that they are worried about the wire? How scarey!!!
Posted By: ozzi

Re: Geo OK, Lolly exploratory surgery ,PVC the suspect - 07/03/09 03:49 AM

angel We are praying for Lolly angel
angel
Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: Geo OK, Lolly exploratory surgery ,PVC the suspect - 07/03/09 09:10 PM

There are a lot of potential toxins in the environment, and I agree with your idea that if everyone is sick at once, they were probably all exposed to the same toxin. I hope that Geo keeps getting better and that Lolly can pull through this as well. hug2
Posted By: kittybaran

to have surgery or not to have surgery - 08/13/09 07:51 PM

Much to my distress both Kazi and FS died 3 and 2 days following surgery and the necropsies really did not reveal why. I think back just the day before surgery and remember FS doing the bite and hiny on my shoulder (when they repeatedly bite something and their back end bounces up and down and side to side) and little Kazi raising her nose up for me to give her a kiss which was a habit of her's and then I remember how miserable they were after surgery, not so much the first day, but definately the second. When they died I woundered if I should have put them through the experiance at all. And it hurts to remember them with the "I don't feel good" look. I wish I could erase it from my mind,but it is etched on my heart. It is a very personal decision, but even though it hurts....termendously, I am glad I gave them the chance to overcome this stupid and horrible illness. For me personally if I had not tried and they just died,because for sure they would have, perhaps even a worse death, I would have looked back and questioned and kick myself wondering if I had tried surgery would they be alive today? That for me would have been more tormenting then knowing that I tried and failed. I've lost 6 gliders to this disease, Kazi, FS, Pip, Pesta, Token and Ponce de Leon. 4 have been just in the last what, 2 months. I can't stop wondering why are my gliders being taken from me? Especially when I've tried so hard to ensure the physical health and psychological well being. God be with every one of you haveing problems with your glider's health or injuries.
And I can not plead more stongly that if you are wondering, questioning your glider's health please, please just dish out the money and take it to the vet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: to have surgery or not to have surgery - 08/13/09 08:03 PM

I'm so sorry for your loss but it sounds like you did everything you could. You can't blame yourself. I hope the ones you still have can stay healthy. {HUGS}
Posted By: silverwolf

Re: to have surgery or not to have surgery - 08/13/09 08:14 PM

Personally I think you did the best thing to at least try. I lost a glider to a liver tumor almost two years ago and sometimes I miss her terribly. I know how it hurts but as owners I feel we need to try every angle to help our little ones your babies know they were loved and I hope that you realize that they understand now that you tried all you could do prayers and thoughts are with you through this hard time.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: to have surgery or not to have surgery - 08/13/09 08:31 PM

I can't even imagine the heartache your going through. I am so sorry that your still trying to understand and dealing with the guilt. Please, try and not feel as though you were at fault. I've gone back and read through all your posts and through all of your efforts the love that you had for your babies shows.
They are at peace now, and will forever shine a light in your heart.
My prayers are with you. hug2
Posted By: kittybaran

Liver cancer not uncommon in gliders - 08/24/09 07:04 PM

THE INFORMATION PROVIDED HERE IS NOT FOR SELF DIAGNOSIS OF YOUR SUGAR GLIDERS PROBLEM IT IS INTENDED TO ASSIST IN YOUR DICISION TO TAKE YOUR GLIDER TO THE VET AND TO HELP YOU IF YOU GET STUCK GOING TO AN INEXPERIANCED VET. The zoo path lab my vets ues have done a little study which revealed this sad little fact gliders have a suseptibility to liver cancer. Recently there was a small mammal vet get together in which gliders were discussed amongst a group of them and they, via experiance have noted a similar finding. This is what I am personally dealing with, with my gliders. I just lost Tiki a couple of days ago and she makes the death toll 7. With these !#***#^@%$@ Mill breeders I suspect the occurance of liver disease in gliders will only increase.
What to watch for:
1.weight loss dispite over feeding
2. Pale nose, gums or feet
3. fatique They may just be hanging
there on the cage looking kinda
lost especially after some, even
minor exertion or perhaps just
less active than they use to be
4. If you ask "hey are you OK"
because you have a nonspecific
general impression that something
is not right, but you don't know
what.
These symptoms can be subtle and slowly progressive or wham bam and they are dead. On blood examination they may have a low Packed Cell Volume count (this in my gliders seems to be the must seriously significant i.e. all that initially showed up with low PCV have died.) There liver enzymes may be elevated and/or their bile acids. Always have both checked especially if a low PCV is found. Be aware of fluid forming in the lungs (Pulmonary Edema) a noise can be noted in their breathing or with a pedicatic stethescope. Also be aware of Plueral Effusion (fluid around the lungs) that may not necessarily be auditable. If your glider is having a sudden breathing problem do not let the vet assume it is just due to a low PCV it may be Plueral Effusion especially if no lung noises are noted. Tiki died because I did not ask the vet at the late night hospital to do a chest xray despite the fact that I wanted to especially when she listened to her and did not hear lung noises despite her severe breathing difficulty. I'm so angry at myself because I know this! 4 days of virtually no sleep and I doubted myself. AHHHHHHH! If she had had an xray and been tapped for the fluids she may have survived to be treated with the chemo and maybe just maybe survived.
Posted By: ozzi

Re: Liver cancer not uncommon in gliders - 08/24/09 08:45 PM

Thank you for this info Kitty.
I am so very sorry to hear you lost Tiki gangel
upset
Pat
Posted By: kittybaran

A celebration - 06/10/10 07:37 PM

Geo is now 1 year and 2 months post op cancer surgery for biliary adenocarcinoma! He is doing great as well as the other five who have not yet reached the 1 year mark. He is still on chemo and his liver builder herbs. The oncologist is not sure if he should or should not be, but he is still alive and, well...he really should not be. So he is still on them. We have learned more about the cancer and treating these little guys. So the cost of blood work is now cheaper and there is a drug that my vet has found that may work better in the gliders that exhibit a low PVC as part of their symptoms. We have not had to use it yet, thank God.

Side note: The moderator here in PHX whose cage I've barrowed, I can't find your phone number. Could you email it to me. I did not intend to run off with the cage for so long.
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: A celebration - 06/10/10 07:44 PM

clap I am so happy to hear that Geo is doing well! Thank you so much for letting us know. I hope this improvement continues and your other gliders follow his lead. hug2
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