Metabollic bone disease new owners

I just want to make sure everyone (mainly new glider owners) understand just how important proper calcium in a glider's diet is!!
I recently got another new addition to my family! A beautiful little girl sugar glider...When I got home after a 7 hr drive from picking her and my other new babies up I got them all in the house and started taking them out of the travel cages to put them in their new cages and when I got her out I realized something was VERY wrong with her hind legs they were laying flat and she couldnt use them! I immediately called the vet got and appointment (after searching and being told almost every vet in this crazy state was out for the week) Took her on the apt day we had a COMPLETE fecal done she had no infections or parasites which was awesome! She was quite underweight at 51 grams and was OOP 7 mths ago! Keep in mind I had only had her for 5 days! But then we had an X ray done because even the vet was soo concerned with her legs (by this time i had increased calcium and she gained enough usage to hop like a bunny) So today the final results are in with 5 other vets concurring she has Metabollic bone disease due to long term lack of calcium! She has also had several fractures that have mended themselves not due to being abused just having weak easily breakable bones due to lack of calcium! So to the new parents please make sure and give your babies the proper calcium and if you see anything that looks off about the walk they walk play eat anything go to the vet!!! Do not risk it! My baby has to have calcium injections as well as a calcium drop prescription daily! She cant climb very well at all so her pouch has to be hung at the very bottom of her cage! I love her very much and no matter what she is my baby! But it is more difficult to care for her than my other glider's!I know some people dont or wont make the time to do it so please if you cannot devote proper calcium and time to your baby don't purchase a glider! They are very speacial little babies! The vet is certain he can make her all better and that's all I care about I just really wanted to stress the IMPORTANCE OF PROPER CALCIUM!!!

Thank you for the reminder Alicia, this is very important yes. I also took in a rescue about two years ago with HLP. He recovered completely.

Here is a link to a very informative article about Hind leg paralysis

Alicia I'm so glad this little girl has you to take care of her. I know you'll do everything to get her all better.

This is heartbreaking! I'm so glad you have her now and she is being treated. She might not have made it much longer had she not found you!

please have the vet run a fecal snap test and a bacterial cNs on her, to rule out bacterial and parasitic infections. if it turns out to be bacterial, you could be wasting a lot of valuable time treating the symptoms (nutrient leaching) and not treating the real problem.. the bacterial cNs takes 7-10 days for the results to come back

She has already had FULL fecals she has no parasites or infections! The vet called me this morning with all the results! ...

fecals need to be retested after 21 days. just because you have one clean fecal doesn't mean she doesn't have any parisites. just a heads up you are not out of the parisite woods yet per say. I hope your baby recovers quickly.

She has ANOTHER apt in 3 weeks for a repeat check up and x ray! I understand the concern about the fecals and the next apt was scheduled this morning when he called! But thank you!

Good luck Alicia. Prayers for you and your little girl.

Thank you David! And we simply adore the baby girl we got from you too! She is an angel!

I got all the vet reports and the x rays today along with her oral calcium drops! copies of everything have been sent to Dr. Tristan! There wound up being 5 different vet opinions (which were all pretty much exactly what my vet said) Gypsy may be getting calcium injections very soon and she has a follow up X ray and blood work/fecales (again) on September the 7th! Everyone please keep my angel in thoughts and prayers I want her to be happy and comfortable!

Prayers for Gypsy!

Thank you! My baby needs all the prayers she can get! I will keep updating as things unfold!

I know you said you had fecals done, but was a bacterial cNs done as well?....

I am very very concerned about this babiy and about the diagnosis..

since as a joey, the calcium and the protein go to the joeys first, and she herself would not have started to be affected till she was over 2 months oop, in the meantime, the mom herself would have seriously been leached of the calcium and nutrients, IF there wasn't enough in the diet, then MOM would have actually been the first one to be affected, the joey would not have survived, as mom would have cannabilized the joey to be sure she herself had enough nutrients to keep her alive. (survival of the fittest) only the strong will survive, as a joey if she was weak and malnutritioned then the mom would have also cannibilized it.

you also stated their was a 7 hour trip, that would definitely be contributory to anything that would be stress related, as the immune system would have been down at that point , opening the door for opportunity for bacterial growth or other infections to come into play.

sorry for this, but my head hear says something else is missing in this equation.. she is far too young, for the HLP to be a primary factor, secondary, absolutely, but not primary

She already has apt's scheduled for bloodwork and further testing I will make sure that every possibility is checked!

Lori, this glider is 7 months old.

yes it is because she is only 7 months old that this needs to be addressed as to what the primary cause of calcium leaching

Bourbon and I were discussing this recently, and she said that it takes years for a glider to show signs of calcium defficiency as HLP. If HLP is found in younger gliders, it is usually caused by a bacterial infection.

Bourbon, correct me if I slaughtered it.

OT...Bourbon, I never got that pm from you about the leeching you said you sent...

awww I am so sorry your baby is going through this. So does that mean that her diet was the issue? I am not sure what she was fed but I feed hpw does that mean there may be an issue with the diet? I hope the breeder is aware and can make changes needed to their diet so this does not happen again. Prayers sent to you and your baby.

It has been called to my attention that I kinda came off wrong in this post! I want o make it clear that we DO NOT know what has caused this problem other than her body doesnt absorb calcium properly which could be caused by many things! I am open to suggestions oon what to ask the vet what tests to have ran etc. It is very important to me to find out the source of what caused my babies problems how to correct it do and compile as much research about this as possible to someday prevent the same thing from happening to someone elses baby! I would love the opinions from those who have researched this and or dealt with anything like it! We do not know that this has anything to do with diet!

tootles, no it does not mean that the diet is the issue, there are still tests being run, to find out the primary cause, still can't be eliminated that bacterial is not an issue, genetics, or something else that may be leaching the calcium, at this time it is pre-mature to say it is anything definitive, hlp symptoms, are usually secondary..

Nadine, it does take months, before the symptoms start to present itself, as was stated in a previous thread, it usually starts with like the ankle is sprained, then the knee then the hip, by the time it gets to the point where both legs are affected, there are other issues going on as well, the calcium if first started to be leeched from the bones yes, but it also gets leached from the organs, the blood.. so other signs you may see are swollen joints, fingers, discolorations etc.. breathing issues, and even seizure activity.

if the symptoms show up over night or in a rapid amount of time, chances are even greater that it is secondary to other issues, like bacterial or parasites.

What I really want to get out of this thread is as much information from experienced people (such as bourbon) on HLP and secondary causes and symptoms etc as possible so new owners understand some of the signs symptoms affects treatments tests etc! We all know how important things like this are and I would love to have this thread help me give the vet some ideas as well as help someone who may have the same problem I am know what they need to do ask etc! I thank all who have offered advice (and I am going to discuss it with my vet) b/c it can't hurt to ask and have her tested!

Bourbon thanks for clearing that for me. And Alicia I hope you can learn everything you need to help this baby.

I'm glad to see this thread taking a more informational turn. I wish I had time to type out all of my thoughts.

http://thesweetspot.forumotion.net/hlp-p...isit-t36.htm#77

I have a very good question on this topic. Before I found the glider world my mother and I both got a Joey from traders village. Now I know he was very young he was really small guy and they said he was 6wks old. Now I had him for 2wks and did not have the proper education. I did ask them numerous times about diet and was told to sprinkle on the calcium powder that was given to me. Now I followed their directions and my baby got HLP. So my question is if it takes time for this to happen then how did it happen so fast to this baby was it passed down from mom? He was only 6wks when I got him and I only had him for maybe 2 at the most.

Good question! I would love to know the answer to that too!

Tracy, because HLP is NORMALLY a SECONDARY condition. Your baby probably had either a parasitic or bacterial issue which then sucks all the nutrients (calcium) from where it is supposed to go into other areas. That is why so many of us stress when someone says they have HLP going on, we yell to get this tested of that tested.

Although you will probably have to give some calcium (Neo Calglucon or calcivet to name a couple)you will also be given either panacur, ivermectin, or albon or an antibiotic to give as well to treat the *primary* issue which is actually causing the HLP to be displayed.

Okay! Now I have another question! what if I have the bloodwork and baterial cNs done on Gypsy and they still find no parasite or infection? Then what other cause could there be for her HLP?

If EVERYTHING is ruled out Alicia, that will leave it with a diet that was not fed properly. And although that is always a possiblity 9-1/2 times it is proven not to be the case at all.

We have seen some rescues that have been fed a HORRID diet (like one that was taken in by SPIN that Queenduck brought up from the Keys)that was fed Powdered Coffee Creamer,and junk food, and it still shown no signs of HLP.

I just wonder, and it will be something I ask Dr.T tomorrow, if it is possible if a glider doesnt get enough vitD if that could be an issue as well...I know nocturnal animals dont *need* it as much as diurnal animals but...sorry, just thinking outloud....

Well I am sure any of that was possible. I didn't even know about glider boards then. I woke up that morning and he was acting funny like he could not climb and I got him out and within 20min he died. It was fast and horrible. It would have been great to have that information back then being a newbie owner.

Thank you I am just trying to find out every possibility so I can suggest tests to my vet that may help locate her problem! I mailed Dr. T the disk I got from the vet with the x rays on it so hopefully it will arrive to him by friday or saturday and I will have his opinion very soon! I want my baby happy and healthy!

tootles, it is not hard to say hindsight is always better than foresight, but back then, there were so many doors that had not been opened yet..
bacterial (especially the anti-biotic resistant ones. parasitic, as well as aflatoxin and some forms of pneumonia, as chris R has posted the psuedo parasites as well

when the bacterial thing happened in TX, sadly many gliders lost their lives till we found out what the real issue was, but there was also a group of people that wanted to blame it on the diet, so while they were doing their smear campaign, we as a researching group fought to find the primary cause.

those times seem to have gotten clouded with people wanted to blame this and that and not move the new found findings forward..

i moved some gliders, they were on bml, the new owner fed hpw, so when she took them into the vet to get checked, they found the dreaded round worm,

so when I found out I called someone else to validate that the readings could have been misread,that it may have been bee pollen and sadly their ulterior agenda got in the way, the woman was not told to question her vet, instead was told to listen to her vet,

there are many things that happened there that should have screamed, it had to be something else,

1. ALL of her gliders tested positive for it, her original group as well as the gliders I moved, they could not have contracted round worm from each other so quickly,

2. I should have been involved with anything that had to do with those gliders.

but what happened was a chance to help educate a vet with a common misdiagnosis, was passed up, and that vet still is left with the old information. Only to make the same mistake again.

If we all worked as hard to find definitive answers as we do when we THINK an injustice is being done, we could still open many many doors that are left to be opened.

we need to really really read the posts, many times the person posting has no clue just as alicia stated, they don't know what to tell their vet to look for, or look harder at, and it is frustrating , just as Kara found out last night.. everyone screamed take the glider to the vet, well she did, it cost her money she didn't have, only to find all tests done were negative. does that mean her glider is fine? No , it means that the tests that were run, couldn't find anything. she will have to continue with the vet visits just as alicia here will have to do, till the primary reason is found.

tootles.. remember that HLP doesn't happen suddenly, it progresses over a period of months SLOWLY, if it does, there is something else going on.

the key thing is now we do know more, does it mean we know it all? NO WAY.. but each step is a step forward..

Peggy, I am very interested in this. My vet says that gliders need at least 4 hours of full spectrum lighting each day. I don't really understand why, or how that would be possible with them being nocturnal. I'd have to take their pouches out during the day and mount a light fixture over all 7 cages.

I've asked her for resources so I can read about it, and she said it was discussed at a conference she attended. It seems that it is not widely accepted or recommended as required for gliders.

Anyway, I would love to hear Dr. Tristan's thoughts on this.

How's Gypsy doing today Alicia?

Well time for an update it's been a while...My precious Gypsy has made an amazing reovery with help from lots of calcium good food and her cagemate Aidan! The vet say's her legs will always look a little funny but it wont hold her back! Her fractures are fully healed some VERY messily! She is a wonderful little girl and we couldnt be happier to have her in our family!

Wonderful news! Yay for Gypsy!!!

Thank's GizmoGirl!

That is wonderful news!