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#100322 - 05/04/06 06:07 PM Chicken Bones
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just took my babies for thier yearly check up, and happened to metion that my little girl had had seizures, but not for awhile. He told me what i already knew, CALCIUM, CALCIUM CALCIUM. Guess what he told me works the very best? Chicken bones. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And it does make sense. In the wild they eat them for the calcium, so why not. I cooked up a couple drummies, put them in the cage, (meat and all)and everynight they eat more bones. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />
Just wanted to share my new information. If anyone tries this, get back with me and let me know how it goes.
Also, the lack of calcium will cause seizures


Edited by hollyjean (05/04/06 06:09 PM)

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#100323 - 05/04/06 06:40 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Although I haven't read anything about feeding gliders bones as a calcium source it does sound like it might work.

My concern is with feeding cooked bones. These are notorious for breaking into sharp pieces (the very reason we don't feed cooked chicken bones to dogs/cats). these shards can cut the mouth or damage internally. The only bones that I've ever been told that are safe are raw ones (chicken bones this is).

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#100324 - 05/04/06 06:45 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]I, too, am concerned about feeding cooked chicken bones to any animal. Chicken bones are known to splinter into tiny little shards that can do some serious damage. Did your vet tell you to cook the bones first? If not, I would double-check with the vet to find out whether they should be fed cooked or raw. It would be tragic to have an injury caused by the very thing you're using to try to keep your glider healthy.
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#100325 - 05/04/06 06:46 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I wonder if the breast bone would be better. It's a different thickness and texture than a leg/thigh bone plus less greasy. Let's see what other people think about this but for now I'll be on the safe side and wait.

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#100326 - 05/04/06 06:49 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The breast bone has a ridge of cartilage.. the rubbery flexable part ~ is this what your asking about?

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#100327 - 05/04/06 06:50 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sorry, i guess i could be more clear. Cook the chicken only until the meat is no longer pink. The bones will cook only a little. You do not want to give them uncooked chicken. Hope this is more clear. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#100328 - 05/04/06 07:40 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 11157
Loc: Tampa, FL
This is an interesting idea…. I will be interested to hear more about this option…
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#100329 - 05/04/06 07:56 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 1234
Loc: Tarpon Springs, FL
Would chicken bones be the only ones we could offer? Beef and pork meats are not optimal but what about rib or steak bones? They don't seem to splinter and they do pack calcium too.
_________________________
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#100330 - 05/04/06 08:21 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
hummm. I think if it were me, I wouldn't offer the chicken bones, cooked or not. To much risk involved for me.

Pinky mice are a wonderful source of protien and calcium. Fuzzy mice (5-7 days old) are an even better source of calcium as the bones have developed more.

Yes, I know, it's grusome but is a food source that is more natural to them. Also, they can be frozen then thawed before feeding if you are squimish about feeding live prey.
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But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#100331 - 05/04/06 08:47 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bones have to be thoroughly chewed to access the calcium in them, anyways. Given how picky gliders are, I'll hedge my bets that a calcium supplement is a far better and more measurable way of making sure they get this nutrient.

Not to mention the whole splintery-chicken-bone bit as mentioned before- I never give them to animals.

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#100332 - 05/04/06 09:22 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16745
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
If you are needing more calcium in your gliders diet may I ask what diet you are feeding them? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
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#100333 - 05/04/06 09:26 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you're sticking to one of the accepted diets, you wouldn't be needing additional calcium.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Chicken bones. And it does make sense. In the wild they eat them for the calcium, so why not. I cooked up a couple drummies, put them in the cage, (meat and all)and everynight they eat more bones.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's great that your gliders enjoy the bones, however, I just thought I'd point out that wild gliders don't get their dietary calcium from bones, but from botanical sources like Acacia gum. In fact, when it comes to consuming vertebrates they are largely opportunistic, but don't particularly specialize in consuming great portions of vertebrates... the scientific sources indicate that when preying on other animals, the gliders feed mainly on invertebrates... so in effect, wild gliders consume very little bone in comparison in the large scheme of things.

Acacia gum is quite high in calcium, and it's one of their main calcium sources (if not their primary source) in the wild, not bones. Also, it has been said that Australian soil itself tends to be calcium-rich, which suggests that the flora (and the fauna that feed on the flora, e.g. insects, etc) also may be rather calcium-rich, and that includes eucalyptus, acacia, and banksia.

...So again, bones play a very little role in the diet of wild gliders. Actually, I have found that if I feed my gliders rat pups that have a hardened and fully calcified skeleton, the gliders will often discard the bones and eat around them.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#100334 - 05/05/06 01:34 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Teresa. I take everything you have to say to heart, always, and now i am a bit concerned with what my vet is telling me. I too questioned the bones when he told me, and he said it would be alright. Now i am hesitent to offer it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
As always, i am going with what you tell me and not do it.
Thanks for the eye opening. (can't give live babies)so i will just trust the calcium i give them with the staple is enough.

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#100335 - 05/05/06 06:48 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow Mikey, you really use big words!!

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#100336 - 05/05/06 07:26 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello! I don't know if I understood correctly, but baby mice are a source of calcium <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Seriously <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I've always been quite reticent in feeding live preys to gliders. Maybe I unconsciously thought it would make them more agressive or have them jump on everything that moves... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />

I know it's not true, however! So live preys are a source of calcium!?! (that was my question, actually....!)

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#100337 - 05/05/06 08:29 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
hollyjean,

Like Peggy asked, what diet are you feeding your gliders? What staple are you using and with which supliments. If you glider is already exibiting calcium deficencies, we don't want to maintain her current levels but safely ensure her intake levels are where they need to be. Also, some gliders just need more then others.

I would usually not suggest to anyone to ignore what their vet recommends. I am not a vet. I have not seen your glider nor run tests on your glider nor have the technical and educational background to diagnose anything with gliders beyond my own personal experience and observations.

Has your vet run blood work and done xrays to determine if there IS a calcium deficency? If your vet is concerned about this being the problem, then the proper tests need to be done and IF the glider is calcium deficent, then oral calcium can be given to bring her calcium levels up.

Again, it does go back to proper diet and knowing what you are feeding your glider will help us help you.
_________________________
620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#100338 - 05/05/06 08:42 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


AnnLise - yes live prey works as a good protein and calcium source (some breeders suppliment their pregnant mothers with them)... I don't do it personally so I cannot say whether or not it changes their aggressiveness... others individuals on this board will have a better idea about that. Some also freeze them (the pinkies, to kill them) first so that it's not living prey but still nutritious

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#100339 - 05/05/06 09:17 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
First..Dancing has given EXCELLENT advice, so I can't add much there...I also would not feed poultry bones because of the risk of splintering and possibly puncturing mouth, throat, stomach or intestine...I never fed them to my cats or dogs for that reason.

Second..although mouse bones are not prone to splintering, so do not pose the danger bird bones do--and the reason for this is that bird bones are hollow, to allow for the lightness required for flight--and can be eaten, the meat itself is very high in phosphorus. Even fuzzies, which are higher in calcium than pinkies due to their more solid bones, are a phosphorus heavy food-tho the ratio is better in fuzzies than pinkies-there is still a calcium deficit (or more phosphorus than calcium), when you feed mice. That needs to be taken into consideration, unless all you are feeding is the bones.

Please post the answers to Dancing's questions-it will help us to know how to direct you. Though we are not vets, many of us are experienced with calcium deficiency. I had one it took over 3 weeks to forcefeed back from the point of death with HLP (Hind Leg paralysis, or metabolic bone disease-i.e., severe calcium deficiency)-but we need your input to know what has been done, what is consumed in the diet, etc., to know what part of our experience to responsibly offer and best help your little one.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#100340 - 05/07/06 07:53 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Teresa
I have them on Prisillas diet. Since i started with the Calcium OJ and extra yougurt, my little girl has not had any problems. I am now very concerned about what the vet says. He even told me that he had some Deer Antlars he could give me for them to chew on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> Do you think i should look for another vet? There are not too many here in San Antonio, but there are others. Also, should they be eating very much chicken? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Thanks very much


Edited by hollyjean (05/07/06 07:56 PM)

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#100341 - 05/07/06 08:35 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Chicken is a high phosphorus food, the ratio is about 1:730, CA:PH. As recommended by the diet should be fine-but I wouldn't feed a lot extra.

I am curious what criteria your vet used to determine she needed extra? On any of the GC diets, if they are eating them and they are prepared as directed, unless an infection or something is present that is pulling calcium from the body-the glider should not be calcium deficient.

Definitive signs of deficiency include most commonly, but are not limited to: loss of use of back legs, or general uncoordination/weakness in the limbs, uncontrolled shaking, or an Xray showing a weakening or pitting of the bones.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#100342 - 05/07/06 09:04 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I haven't read this entire thread yet but am wondering why not the Acacia Gum, yogurt or just plain adding extra calcium to the diet? These are things I've always done and have healthy gliders. I'm sorry, but there is no way I would consider feeding chicken bones to my gliders (or any animal for that matter) after seeing what kind of damage they can do to internal organs. Cats have very strong guts and can still die from splintered chicken and pork bones.

Gliders when eating chew and or suck the juice out of food and spit out the "hard stuff". HOW could they EAT bones??? They have such tiny throats that they can't even eat skins.

I may be silly on this one, but I've never heard of wild chickens. I'm sure it's because I live in the USA and am spoiled by our farms and USDA. LOL But how would a glider go about finding, killing and eating a wild chicken in Australia or Indonesia? LOL???


Edited by SugarBlossoms (05/07/06 09:07 PM)
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#100343 - 05/07/06 09:20 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Sugarblossoms..not chickens necessarily, but they have been known to eat baby chicks of small birds in the wild (not sure if that would include their eggs)...think a sparrow or similar.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#100344 - 05/07/06 09:37 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
True but I'm assuming she means chicken bones from chicken we buy at the store?
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#100345 - 05/07/06 09:53 PM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I may be silly on this one, but I've never heard of wild chickens. I'm sure it's because I live in the USA and am spoiled by our farms and USDA. LOL But how would a glider go about finding, killing and eating a wild chicken in Australia or Indonesia? LOL???

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

This is what I was replying to-vet is telling her to feed store bought chicken bones, I was just saying them eating bird bones is not unheard of, but cooked chicken and from a wild baby bird are entirely different things. Tho I can understand where he got the idea (they will also eat bones and all in a pinky mouse)...I don't think the directions she got made much sense.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#100346 - 05/09/06 12:06 AM Re: Chicken Bones [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I agree with you 100 Percent!
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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