Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
jen102375, NatalieFuzzbutt, upsoon
Featured Member
Registered: 12/28/15
Posts: 506
Last 10 Posts
Bare Tail Question
by kskill99
11 minutes 6 seconds ago
Introducing Two Colonies
by KarenE
Today at 01:26 PM
Seeking a Bra Baby Glider for PTSD
by KarenE
Today at 11:01 AM
Should breeding pairs ever be separated?
by KarenE
Today at 09:48 AM
Took in a glider from my Ex
by KarenE
Today at 09:48 AM
Looking for vet recommendation, Atlanta
by Jen_faith
Today at 04:40 AM
Fruits and Veggies
by KarenE
Yesterday at 10:39 AM
Questions about following Critter Love diet exactly as written
by KarenE
Yesterday at 10:37 AM
My dog Willow
by Terry
10/21/17 06:36 PM
Too Soon To Say Goodbye, my Lulu
by Ladymagyver
10/21/17 05:44 AM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#10140 - 09/27/03 11:07 AM Possible news re: 5 glider deaths
Anonymous
Unregistered


The vet and pathologist aren't positive, but they think they're beginning to see a link between the deaths of my gliders.

A gram positive bacterium, listeria, was found in 3 of the gliders (the 4th report isn't in yet, and the first glider didn't have a post mortem). They also saw something that was gram negative in at least 2 of the gliders, but pathologist questions if that was a problem with the stain used. At first we thought the bacterium was gram neg, so was treating with Baytril. Now, they are certain that listeria is present, and we are using amoxicillin, along with Baytril (because of the uncertainty). vet says if any gliders develop diarrhea, to stop Baytril and continue with amoxicillin, and feed yogurt.

The condition is very strange and rare, and 'weird' according to the vet. She has been wonderful thru all of this, and has stayed with it, day after day, as well as the pathologist.

There is STILL something very weird with the livers in my gliders, tho, and I just realized that it's something I may have caused. I have a call in to my vet right now, and if what I fear is true, I will post what happened so that others can learn from my mistake.

Right now, tho, the one thing that seems to be present is listeria, the gram positive bacterium. Litter Feller had it in just about every organ. Others just had it here and there. I don't know about Poki yet. She just died Friday, and results aren't back, yet.

Thanks to everyone who has been so supportive. This has been a very difficult time for me.

Top
#10141 - 09/27/03 11:28 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Keep with it and let us know what you find out. As always, you are in my prayers.

Top
#10142 - 09/27/03 12:06 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Listeria Bacterium is found in soil and vegetation, therefore, you can expect it to show up in grazing areas and stale water supplies. It is easily contracted and transmitted by herd animals and can live in the intestines of humans, animals, and birds for long periods of time without causing infection. The bacterium is most often isolated in cattle, sheep and fowl, but is also found in dairy products , fruits, and vegetables.

What makes this bacterium increasingly hazardous is the ability to exist in foods that have not been previously considered dangerous. Food items such as lunch meat and hot dogs have shown that they are susceptible to Listera bacterium.

I know of a very large breeder up in Canada who lost most of their gliders from an outbreak of Listeria. The gliders just suddenly started dropping and by time two and two was put together most of the gliders and already died.

Listeria is a intercellular pathogen...thus it travels through the blood, but are often found inside cells. Once inside a cell, it can mirror the properties and move directly from cell-cell, avoiding many of the host's defense mechanisms. The bacteria can also produce toxins that will potentially damages cells.

Listeria food poisoning is often overlooked because it is a bacteria that can survie and grow in refrigerated foods.


Edited by Judie (09/27/03 12:31 PM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

Top
#10143 - 09/27/03 06:12 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Peggy, I am so saddened by your loss. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I cannot imagine losing so much so quickly. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your gliders. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

I have a question for Judie,
Is this listeria bacterium a bacterium that can be killed by freezing fruits and vegetables before feeding?

Top
#10144 - 09/27/03 09:38 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for all the great information on this problem Lucy!

Peggy, I am so sorry for your loss! Words cannot begin to ease your pain I am sure!
Hopefully you can find the cause of this devistation so you can put closure to the loss of your beloved gliders!

Top
#10145 - 09/27/03 11:41 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Sorry, I only know Listeria can survive in refrigerated foods. Therefor I doubt it would survive freezing.

Best way to avoid it....wash fruits and veggies. Milk products must be pasturized. No soft cheese. No lunchmeats or hot dogs. Meats must be cooked thourghly.
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

Top
#10146 - 09/28/03 03:27 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


For some great info. on Listeria, check the following link:

Listeria Info .

As you can see, Listeria microorganisms can survive freezing (20 F ) and grows best at OF to 50F. What makes it so dangerous is that it is not only capable of travelling in the bloodstream but invading cells of the body including internal organs. This is why it is referred to as an intracellular pathogen . It then:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
...can co-opt the cell's machinery to its own advantage by manipulating the host cell genes, and then move directly from cell-to-cell, avoiding many of the host's defense mechanisms

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> . It also produces toxins which can damage cells. This could account for why the livers/other organs of Peggy's gliders showed evidence of the listeria bacterium especially the livers as it is the liver which disposes of worn-out blood cells by breaking them down into their different elements storing some & sending others to the kidneys for disposal in the urine. The liver also filters and destroys bacteria. However, as an intracellular pathogen, listeria as previously pointed out can avoid the liver defense mechanisms for destroying it by manipulating the liver's cell genes.

Listeria's incubation period can be 1-8 weeks with 30 days being the norm. However, some crucial factors which can affect the incubation period include:

1) compromised immune system. Rescue gliders on previously poor diets tend to have poorer immune systems and could be affected more quickly even though they may have been on an adequate diet for quite some time.

2) amount of the listeria bacterium ingested.

3) virulence of the listeria strain.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Where does Listeria monocytogenes come from?


There are many opportunities for contamination with Listeria during the process of food production because Listeria monocytogenes is ubiquitous in the environment.3 For examples, it can be grown from wild and domestic animals, birds, insects, soil and wastewater, and vegetation. As it is a bacterium found in soil and vegetation, it is easily contracted and transmitted by herd animals. Listeria is found in grazing areas, stale water supplies, and poorly prepared animal feed. It can live in the intestines of humans, animals, and birds for long periods of time without causing infection. The bacterium is often isolated in cattle, sheep, and fowl, and is also found in dairy products, fruits, and vegetables.



<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Given that the listeria bacterium can grow slowly at refrigerator temperatures, it might be best to:

1) thoroughly wash all fruits/veggies & then

2) freeze all fruits/veggies for at least 24 hours before use to decrease the risk of listeria bacterium development.

3) if using cooked chicken as an occasional treat for your glider, be sure that the thickest section of the chicken is cooked to at least 165F.


Top
#10147 - 09/29/03 10:54 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


whoa thanks Glideroo and Judie!! I love reading about stuff like that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

Top
#10148 - 09/29/03 01:54 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
You guys are amazing! Who needs college when we can learn everything that's truly important right here on GC? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> Peggy, good luck with finding answers and closure on your tragic situation. Our prayers are with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

Top
#10149 - 09/29/03 06:04 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Peggy,
Please keep us updated. We love you and are praying for your little ones. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

Top
#10150 - 09/30/03 04:44 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The best news I have right now is that no more gliders have died yet. They are on their 4th day of amoxicillin (a 10 day treatment), and they seem to be tolerating it okay. We had to stop the Baytril because we did see diarrhea in one of the gliders. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that no one else dies. It's really hard to get my hopes up too much tho. Sometimes it's 2 weeks before the next one goes. Please keep praying for my gliders.

Top
#10151 - 09/30/03 09:01 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm praying for you and your little guys, and I'm thinking it was the listeria alone that took the 5 you lost, and hopefully with the amox you won't lose another, crossing my crossables for you!

Top
#10152 - 09/30/03 11:31 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Still praying all will pull through. Hang in there....it does get better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

Top
#10153 - 10/01/03 04:41 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks to everyone....so far, so good. We are seeing a little diarrhea due to the antibiotic. We are offering yogurt, but they have 6 days left on the amoxicillin. Does anyone have any suggestions? I dont want to deplete their systems, but they don't necessarily take the yogurt. I can't wait until this nightmare is over.

Top
#10154 - 10/01/03 08:02 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Still sending prayers and good thoughts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

Top
#10155 - 10/01/03 08:13 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm not sure how helpful this is, Peg, but they have fruit somothies in the dairy section now made with yougurt. Or you could make some yourself by blending some yogurt with their favorite fruit to enhance the flavor.

Prayers for you and your little ones! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

Top
#10156 - 10/01/03 08:14 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mine also like cottage chesse with fruit mixed in. Maybe that will help you?

Top
#10157 - 10/01/03 09:20 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


you can buy acidophillus pills at herbal stores, and they usually come in capsule form, make sure it's kept refridgerated. maybe if they refuse the joghurt, you can unscrew one of those capsules and sprinkle some on their favourite food, such as BML if that's what's fed ? I'm praying for your remaining gliders.

Tanja

Top
#10158 - 10/02/03 05:37 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
We're still sending prayers your way that the meds will do the trick and your gliders will be healthy and thrive under your care. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

2003: Hiroshi (M)
2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
2010: BJ (M)
My gallery

Top
#10159 - 10/02/03 09:32 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 9173
Loc: Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Ask the vet for some Ben-Bac. It is a live culture and will renew their systems. There is a generic name for it but right now I am brain dead. Too early. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

Also, when feeding Yogurt for loose stool...it is best to feed Plain and with Live and Active Cultures. Dannon is one that comes to mind. Yogurt with sugar does not set well with upset GI tracts.


Edited by Judie (10/02/03 10:40 AM)
_________________________
Web site: www.MyLittleGremlin.com

Top
#10160 - 10/02/03 10:23 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My thoughts and good wishes are with you, so glad you are keeping us posted. I'm so glad you have lost no more.

Top
#10161 - 10/02/03 06:04 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


More news from the vet--she is not concerned about the aluminum in the sandpaper--said she didn't think it had anything to do with what's going on. However, there seems to be 2 strains of the listeria...one is sensitive to amoxicillin, and the other is resistent! So, my gliders will start another antibiotic next week...after we calm their systems down (several have diarrhea). Sigh

Top
#10162 - 10/02/03 06:35 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'm so sorry... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> It will get better!!

Top
#10163 - 10/02/03 07:20 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Peggy...sending prayers your way. The ups and downs have to be so hard on you. We are all here for you!!! I am praying God will give you strength to get through this and that the rest of your babies make it through this!!
Thanks for keeping us updated!!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Top
#10164 - 10/02/03 11:29 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: Izzyandrileysmom]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I really dislike Listeria. We don't see a lot of it, but when it raises its ugly head, it can devastate. Once my partner lost not one but two newborn babies to Listeria the same night. One was born sick and floundered in the delivery room. Unfortunately died right away. The other baby delivered several hours later (different mother) but got sick and died within hours. Sad case. Studies showed it was the same strain, and the second baby must have picked up the bug from something that the first one contaminated. Newborns are known for being born relatively immunosuppressed. Although this has little to do with gliders, sepsis with a bad outcome is always a sad thing. Listeria is usually amenable to antibiotic treatment if caught early, though, so you should be heading in the right direction. Good luck.

Top
#10165 - 10/03/03 09:49 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good luck on the second antibiotic, so far so good with the stabilizing of no one dying, and hopefully they will get a bit sorted out from the amox and have no runs with the other meds! Still praying for you and your guys...

Top
#10166 - 10/03/03 10:38 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Peggy: Is the new antibiotic gentamicin and does the vet plan to use the amoxicillin and the new antibiotic together to fight the listeria? From the research I have done, the most effective treatment appears to be either using ampicillin alone or in combination with gentamicin. However, amoxicillin can be substituted for the ampicillin as both are from the penicillin family and basically do the same job.

Please let us know how things are going with the remainder of your glider crew.

Top
#10167 - 10/03/03 03:20 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think the current plan is to treat with two antibiotics, altho I can't remember the name of the second one. She wants to make sure she takes care of BOTH strains of listeria.

Top
#10168 - 10/03/03 07:45 PM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Ellen Offline
Owner:Emeritus-Mother Hen

Registered: 08/05/99
Posts: 7603
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA.
Peggy, you have a great vet. One that I would put myself in care of. Whatever she thinks is right will be right. I know how much she researches before she does anything. Have all the faith in her she deserves.

I just know she will be able to help if ANYONE can. Just listen to her.
_________________________
Love and kindness is a gift. Use it freely....
My Gallery

Top
#10169 - 10/04/03 05:31 AM Re: Possible news re: 5 glider deaths [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ellen, I have a tremendous amount of faith in my vet. She has stuck with this, calling me almost daily with any news she and the pathologist have uncovered. Cultures take time to grow, and I think that's why things were so sketchy in the beginning....they couldn't find a link between all the deaths. NOw that they are getting the info from the cultures, they are beginning to make sense of things. You can bet that I'm following her directions to a T! And I thank you so much for the reference. If I had stuck with my other vet, all of my gliders would probably be gone.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >




Moderator:  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver, Philwojo 
Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online
1 registered (kskill99), 26 Guests and 55 Spiders online.
Key: Owner, Admin, Mod
Newest Members
reba, AlyCatz, mandydarr, FinFiFuFe, Angelicat26
6389 Registered Users
Forum Stats
10 posts in the last 24hrs
6389 Members
134 Forums
8903 Topics
147916 Posts

Max Online: 478 @ 07/15/07 01:24 AM
Last 10 New Topics
Bare Tail Question
by kskill99
11 minutes 6 seconds ago
Took in a glider from my Ex
by New_Guy
Today at 12:11 AM
Should breeding pairs ever be separated?
by AlyCatz
Yesterday at 04:53 AM
Twitchy tale movements
by FinFiFuFe
10/20/17 12:29 AM
Looking for vet recommendation, Atlanta
by Jen_faith
10/19/17 08:40 PM
First time glider owner looking for wisdom
by
10/19/17 03:36 PM
Older Male/Joey Female or Older Female?
by
10/19/17 10:01 AM
Cold snap!
by Ladymagyver
10/19/17 12:51 AM
Bringing Home Your Baby
by Amanda159
10/18/17 06:42 PM
Bedding
by Amanda159
10/18/17 05:53 PM
(Views)Popular Topics
I just found a lump on Timmy's chest--HELP! 20203112
Spencer needs your prayers/good thoughts 12465215
TEXAS 646311
Pitbull biter needs advice/help 589369
OHIO 505343
Member Titles 449256
MISSOURI 383379
HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's 360090
OKLAHOMA 344364
URGENT - Genetic Flaw discovered 342370
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!


GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2017