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#102468 - 05/13/06 12:43 AM Healesville Sanctuary Diet
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just couldn't get my guys to eat the BML so have tried this diet with great success. The only change is the fly pupae because I just cannot stomach them. My gliders live outdoors and are thriving so far.

Helesville Sanctuary diet

Water

Daily diet per animal:
1 Dog chow/Advance.
6g Fruit, chopped (1 tablespoon)
3ml Nectar mix.
1g fly pupae(1/4 teaspoon)
5g corn
2g Sprouted seed
2 mealworms.

Supplement:
5 pollen grains-once per week(bee pollen grains available at Health food shops)
3 sultanas-3-4 times per week
2 sunflower seeds-once per week
1g Pet health food(small cube)-once per week.
I use an all natural no added preservatives chicken loaf for dogs and freeze it.
1 almond-once per week
Insects-3-4 times per week (moths crickets etc.)
Acacia, eucalypts. other blossoms as avavilable.

I make up 1/3 of the nectar mix and freeze it. They say fresh and I'm going to check with a chemist to see if the vitamins are destroyed in the freezing. Perhaps we have a chemist on GC that could tell me.

Nectar Mix:
2 litre formular:
700ml of Honey,
1 litre Hot water,
3 eggs(hard boiled no shell)
Soluvet 20 ml(liquid vitamin for birds)
Calicivet 20ml.
250ml cold water
cereal 70g

Blend together hard boiled egg, Soluvet, calcivet and cold water. Once blended add mix to honey and water, together with High protein Baby Cereal. They love the nectar mix.

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#102469 - 05/13/06 03:30 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
Anonymous
Unregistered


NICE! Love it!

You Aussies sure can teach us North Americans a thing or two on captive glider nutrition. Ha! People around here would never dare speak of DOG CHOW as a food source for captive gliders.

Look at that variety! Also, it's interesting how many elements of a wild glider diet (e.g. pollen, acacia, eucalyptus, etc) you guys incorporate into your captive glider diets (I'm supposing part of the reason for that is you have the flora available to you readily, the luxury of which we North Americans of course don't have).

Nevertheless, great post!

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#102470 - 05/13/06 08:41 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Paula0442 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3008
Loc: Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
Mikey, I will be brave enough.
I leave a couple Iams puppy food bits in the cage with their Cheerios. I have to monitor them though because they love them more than anything else that I give them.
I can't leave them in the cage at night because that's what they'll eat instead of the BML.

Okay people, give it to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I'm waiting for the scoldings. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />
I can take it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!



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#102471 - 05/13/06 08:58 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Nope Paula, not gonna get it from me, nope, nope, nope. In fact....I may start leaving a couple if kibbles out during the day when I go to work. I hate thinking they might wake up while I'm not there and be hungry and I hate leaving anything that might spoil such as the BML and I can't leave fruit out because I live in SC and we would be covered up in ants!!!

I feed my gliders BML because after much research it really seems that here in the states, its the best we have to offer them; however; I am a FIRM believer in that if we could feed them as close to their natural diet, we would all have happy, healthier gliders. I don't know where on earth they would find gerber yogurt, chicken and gravy, etc., growing in Austrailia.....LOL But, my gliders seem to be thriving so BML is what we'll continue to use happily!

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#102472 - 05/13/06 09:22 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


okay - going to be a little too bold and stick my nose into some business I probably shouldn'e - but please, please if you're going to feed a commercial dog chow/kibble, look at the ingredient list carefully. I won't go into gory details, but through the process of "rendering" all sorts of chemicals end up in dog food. There was a study done in the late 90's to early 2000's that tested for the trace amounts of Phenobarbitol (euthanasia fluid) that was present in many commercial dog foods. I'd have to research for which school was connected with the study - i want to say Davis was one, but I don't rmeember well enough to say for sure. The vet I worked for at the time gave me the article from a medical journal he received.

Anyway, the point I was trying to get across is that it's widely known that many dogs foods are not the most healthy. Not to say there are not good foods out there - especially some of the holistic brands. Just read your ingredient labels and make a well-informed decision.

okay - back off my soapbox. I hope I've not offended anyone.

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#102473 - 05/14/06 05:19 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree you need to be careful on what dog chow to use. The sanctuary gives the brand they recommend. I use the puppy dog chow and they are very small pellets. the nectar mix is not as sweet as the bml and they always eat it first. The Arcacia is a hit as they use their teeth to strip the branches. (In the wild they love this plant).This is a very natural diet and Im sure that the ingredients would be easy to source in the states. The plants may be harder but well worth the effort. I'm lucky enough to have an abundant supply of Arcacia and Eucalypt like most Australians.

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#102474 - 05/16/06 08:57 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
Anonymous
Unregistered


By the way Jett, thanks for the info on the diet you're feeding. I got so busy on my soap box I never said thanks!!

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#102475 - 05/16/06 02:30 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


hey, what makes expensive dog kibble more favourable then expensive cat/kitten food?

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#102476 - 05/16/06 03:48 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Perhaps it's not a matter of which is more favourable, but something to do with the nutrient ratios. Cat kibble has a higer protein and fat amount than dog kibble (naturally since cats are obligate carnivores), and dog kibble often has higher amounts of grains than cat kibble, since biologically dogs are actually omnivorous. I'm guessing the Healesville Sanctuary diet accounts for this difference and has chosen the dog kibble to incorporate into the diet.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#102477 - 05/16/06 04:18 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Just another word of caution when feeding either dog kibble or cat food... Dry pellets can cause gliders to get "lumpy jaw" - a very painful infection that can be fatal if left untreated. The hard pelleted foods (glider pellets included) can scratch the pallette of the glider's mouth & allow bacteria to invade their system. This is not to be taken lightly as it can cause serious repercussions. Any pelleted food should be softened in juice or nectar before serving to help prevent this from happening.
_________________________
Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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#102478 - 05/16/06 05:54 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
I'm just not sure I beleive in " lumpy jaw " Can't the apple branches I have in my cage cause the same kind of damage <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#102479 - 05/16/06 06:12 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


this looks like a great diet... Jett can you give us any more information on the background of this diet.. I might have to add this to my approved list.

Also could Wombaroo's high protein supplement be used in place of baby cereal?

Question about some of the ingredients:
1g fly pupae(1/4 teaspoon) --> what do you replace this with?
5g corn --> any specific type of corn?
2g Sprouted seed --> what exactly is sprouted seed?
2 mealworms --> can you use anything to replace this?

pollen grains --> are there any types they cannot have?
sultanas --> do they need to specifically be these or can they be any raisin
1g Pet health food --> is this the dog food discussed?
insects are listed in two different parts of the diet ... is it supposed to be this way?
Acacia, eucalypts. other blossoms as avavilable. --> these blossoms are not available here.. are there any others that can be recommended?

i agree with carrie about the lumpy jaw tho i still don't give purely dry food.. i soak hard food in apple juice to soften it some.


Edited by TMarie (05/16/06 06:18 PM)

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#102480 - 05/16/06 07:01 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
I can give background to this diet

Of course Wombaroo High Protein Supplement can be used - that is why I created my 'PML' Pockets Modified leadbeater's mixture, it is as close as I can come to the Original Leadbeater's mixture.

I, Tmarie (as I have stated in the past to you) not Cathy Delany incorporated using the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement into my 'PML' - with approval from several Aussies!

I have also tried without success to contact Kris Derose, as 'PML' is listed incorrectly on his website,this was brought to my attention from Aussie friends, same with incorrect information on your website Tmarie

I do not advise using hot water as it will break down the vitamins!


Edited by Pockets (05/16/06 07:13 PM)
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#102481 - 05/17/06 11:47 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Pockets, if I may, where can we find the correct PML recipe?

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#102482 - 05/17/06 01:51 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I got the emails just didnt get to changing it on AC or emailing you back.. sorry but its all changed now...

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#102483 - 05/17/06 08:04 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Hello Yava
Email me at []tinytracks@austin.rr.com[/] & I will send you my 'PML' sheet - remember that this as well as any modified leadbeater's mixture is only a part of their diet.
I also advise anyone who is interested to take the 'PML' sheet to their <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s veterinarian.

Thanks Kris, the incorrect 'PML' info worried several here in the USA as well as from the Land Down Under!
It was also corrected on a UK website & they were very responsive.
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#102484 - 05/18/06 08:35 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Pockets, I just took the time to update everything. I just didn't have time to do that before but since it was brought up again I took a time out from my masters paper.

Jett, if you have any information on how much hps i should use and the other questions or anyone I can get in contact with, please let me know.

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#102485 - 05/18/06 10:53 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Thank you & Good luck with your masters paper!

Just spoke with Geoff, so you may be bothered once again today as he is placing an order.

Personally, I feel that the posting of incorrect info on websites could result in harm to our <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s & people should really research the information out clearly before posting it on their websites!
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#102486 - 05/18/06 11:24 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks so much for letting me know!! He tried to call me but my cell phone is dead so I just called him quick on my lunch break.

This diet seems interesting as a possible back up but there are many things I do not know where I'd find here...

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#102487 - 05/19/06 12:45 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Guys,
Sorry I haven't replied. I'm trying to get confirmation from the Sanctuary to have permission to place their diet on the diet links page incase of any copy right etc. I don't want to go against pockets but I don't think it is a good idea to substitute the baby cereal with the high protein supplement by Wombaroo. The Wombaroo is very high in protein and has a much higher fat content compared to baby cereal. The dog chow that everyone is concerned about can be soaked in water before giving to your gliders. I use bee pollen granules that I got from a health food shop. Sultanas are just the dried fruit kind. Sprouted seed can be the type you put in your salads. I use Mung beans. They also like Alfalfa and bean sprouts. You can buy them unseeded from a health food shop and put them in a jar with some water and a few days later you have sprouted seeds. I think it is important for us not to over care for our gliders by giving them too much calcium, protein and other vitamins. You can see from some posts that we can love them too death because we are concerned by giving them the right foods.(WHAT IS THE RIGHT FOODS) This diet has been created to give a ballanced menu. I find that my gliders like a repedative diet much more than a varied diet. I think the fly pupae would have a high fat content. My gliders catch a lot of insects outside so I'm hopeing this will make up for this in their diet. They tend to eat everything offered and love the nectar mix. Please feel free to private message me if you want any information. I will keep you posted on the out come of the sanctuary's permission for this to be placed on the diet links page

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#102488 - 05/19/06 01:58 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Hi,
Will await your info, I also have several published Healesville & Australian glider diets - Rosie Booth recommends Wombaroo products, I believe she is teaching in Queensland at this time. The Marsupial Society Of Australia, as does many other Aussie wildcare sources approve of Wombaroo.
I am going to forward this onto to Wombaroo & a few others for comments & advice.
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#102489 - 05/19/06 01:59 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
gliderdad79 Offline
Owner

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 15514
Loc: Long Island, NY
As you may or may not know, the main reason we in the states can not offer the original leadbeaters mix, is the sale of hi protein baby cereal was banned here in the states many years ago, meaning the use of regular cereal would not offer the amount of protein the diet mix called for.
_________________________
Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!

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#102490 - 05/19/06 04:17 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Will be interested in any additional information Pockets. I didn't know that the high protein baby cereal is not avavilable in the states. The protein level in Wombaroo is much higher than in our baby cereal. i will speak to the sanctuary about this also and let you know what I can find out.

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#102491 - 05/19/06 04:44 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Hello Jett
I have many wonderful friends in Victoria & the surrounding areas!
Bob "MSA" Marsupial Society of Australia, says that the high protein babyfood hasn't been around for quite awhile in OZ - he resides in SA. He also stated that the Wombaroo HPS is wonderful & would not recommend anything else - he has used it for many years.

I am very curious if you know Peter Preuss - wonderful friend & very active with Leadbeater's possum!

I have a link that shows the Healesville Sanctuary sugar glider diet, as I will not post out of my copyright publications, this link also shows Wombaroo HPS.

Here is a link to the High Protein Supplement Healthy Bird

As it states - You only need to use half the quantity of Wombaroo High Protein Supplement because of it's superior protein quality and higher concentration

If you visit the diet link here on GC you will see my 'PML' modified Leadbeater's - but as you know this is only a part of their diet - my 'PML' is based on the Original Leadbeater's mixture created by Des Hackett & is the closest I have been able to acheive


Edited by Pockets (05/19/06 04:57 AM)
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#102492 - 05/19/06 06:03 AM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This looks like a fantastic diet, however, with the amount of things I'm not sure I could find.. and the fact that I do not feed my gliders insects.. It might be best to stay with what I use for now. This is great to have on hand though. Thanks!!

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#102493 - 05/19/06 07:59 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Pockets. That is great news as I have a box of the Wombaroo High protein suppliment and I will use this in future. I din't realise the high protein baby food was not avavilable any more. I have not met Peter Pruess but have heard his name mentioned in many of the circles I move in. I would love to get his book on the Leadbeaters possums and about the life of Des Hackett. The company I work for has donated timber for boxes for the Leadbeater possums. I'm going out to the school that has built these boxes on Tuesday and Im taking my gliders to talk to the kids. Leadbeaters look much like gliders except for the flying membrane. I said on one of the other posts that their was 100 left in the wild but have since found out it is more like 1000. Much better odds though.

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#102494 - 05/19/06 09:40 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Thanks Pockets. That is great news as I have a box of the Wombaroo High protein suppliment and I will use this in future. I din't realise the high protein baby food was not avavilable any more.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Hi Jett

I have been using several of the wombaroo products including the HPS for some time now but just letting you know High Protein baby cereal is still readily available in most supermarkets (actually I haven't found one yet that doesn't stock it).

Cheers Marz

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#102495 - 05/19/06 09:43 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: beans1977]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Hello Jett
Peter is a wonderful man & yes I do have his signed publication & as always have been picking his brain.
Most people are not aware than Des provided all the zoological parks worldwide with Leadbeater's possum & was the very first person to successfully breed both the sugar glider & the Leadbeaters possum in captivity - He was an expert, he taught the zoological parks & would not release his Leadbeater's until he was assurred of their habitats, care, etc
Des was also the person responsible for releasing hundreds of sugar gliders into the wild & on March 1979 he released the first of his 26 sugar gliders into the Tower Hill Reserve.
If anyone is interested I can forward orders for Peters publication "Leadbeater's Possum - Bred To Be Wild"
His dream was to re-establish the Leadbeater's possums -

Jett do you know of the Hackett tree near Powelltown - I cried!

Jett the Wombaroo HPS is a wonderful product - perfect nope,
but I keep on looking! I have been using it for many years.

I have contacted Brian Rich - Wombaroo & it may be a few days for his reply as they are out of town - will post when I can


Edited by Pockets (05/20/06 09:50 AM)
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#102496 - 05/19/06 09:59 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: ]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Marz -
I certainly will let President of the 'MSA" Bob know -
I do know that he did use Farex yrs ago ?) but prefers Wombaroo products - I am so jealous as you two have so much flora to choose from!
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#102497 - 05/19/06 10:35 PM Re: Healesville Sanctuary Diet [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Marz -
I certainly will let President of the 'MSA" Bob know -
I do know that he did use Farex yrs ago ?) but prefers Wombaroo products - I am so jealous as you two have so much flora to choose from!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

He may have been referring to a farex high protein cereal then as I don't think I have seen one in the Farex Brand. I presently use the Heinz High Protein cereal.

I actually used to live near Powelltown and Marysville as a child and I have many memories of injured possums (mostly brushtail) and gliders living in our house until they were recovered and then released back into the bush surrounding our home. It was backed right onto the forests where the Leadbetter Possums have been found.

I know live in outer suburbia but do go and visit these spots mostly for my photography addiction now.


Cheers Marz

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