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#1038623 - 12/09/10 09:13 PM ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders
HagridsHut Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 657
Loc: Virginia
Hi, everyone! wave I saw a recent post that seemed to indicate that it was inappropriate to ever house 2 intact males together. While I definitely agree that intact fathers and sons should never remain together, what about twins or 2 similarly aged male joeys? As long as there is no female to instigate dominance wars, I personally see no problem with allowing un-neutered brothers or joeys who have grown up together to remain together for the duration of their lives. dunno I am interested in hearing the opinions of others ... both pros and cons. thanks -Alicia
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:grey: Andromeda, Malfoy, & Peeves; Arthur & Lily :wfb:


:rbridge: Severus Snape, Dolores Umbridge, Horace Slughorn, & Molly Weasley ... Glide free, my little angels! We will love and miss you FOREVER!





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#1038632 - 12/09/10 09:32 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 4645
Loc: Ohio
Males can be kept together. Usually, the only time that intact males will get along without any hitches is if they're related(father/son or brothers). Also, intact males will oftentimes get along fine together as long as they're introed when at least 1 of them is not yet sexually mature(ex: an adult male with a male joey).

I've successfully housed twin brothers(they're adults now), father and son, and 2 unrelated males(if I remember correctly, they were 5 and 3 months old at the time of intros). All have done fine together. However, in each instance, they went through a pecking order phase where there was slight food-aggression. In each case, however, they worked out who the "top dog" was and never had any issues after that. smile

I think, perhaps, that people who try males together probably get to that stage where they're both mature and have to work out the pecking order...and then people split them up, thinking they're no longer working out together, when, in fact, things would have worked out fine if they'd just given them a couple weeks to settle who was going to be the head male. tounge

That being said, I'd conclude saying that the con is that they DO usually go through a short fussy phase(anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks). However, the pro would be that once they've settled in you've got a strongly bonded pair of males and you don't have to worry about unwanted joeys or scary neuters. wink

Personally, I prefer male gliders because I think that they tend to be more cuddly(not always, but the majority of the time, in my limited experience), but I hate the scare and stress of neuters and I especially hate that my gliders hate me afterward if I have to put them in e-collars. frown So, I feel that if 2 males can be intro-ed together then it's TOTALLY worth it! grin
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~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin

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#1038635 - 12/09/10 09:34 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
Meg_n_Von Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 12099
Loc: Vulcan, MO
I actually have two intact males together as we speak. They've been together since August and I haven't had any problems with them, they get along really well. They're about 3 months apart in age.

This doesn't mean that ALL intact males will get along, but all of the ones I've ever had together do great. smile
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Sugar Exotics

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#1038639 - 12/09/10 09:49 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: Meg_n_Von]
HagridsHut Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 657
Loc: Virginia
I have personally only ever housed intact males who were introduced as joeys, but have had remarkable success with each of these pairings. I am anxious for Connie ( aka suggiemom_1980 ) to respond. She has a great deal of experience, and was actually the person who originally posted her concerns on the subject. Here's the topic on which she was commenting: http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...hic#Post1038627 . -Alicia
_________________________

:grey: Andromeda, Malfoy, & Peeves; Arthur & Lily :wfb:


:rbridge: Severus Snape, Dolores Umbridge, Horace Slughorn, & Molly Weasley ... Glide free, my little angels! We will love and miss you FOREVER!





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#1038652 - 12/09/10 10:28 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: kentucky
I think many males can get along just fine. I have no prob with intact males being housed togeather. What i do have a prob with is when this is done in a breeding situation. I do not think there needs to be more then one intact male in the same cage as a female.


Why risk this? You know when a female comes into heat there is going to be trouble. I have a male right now missing a eye and going thru a lot because more then one of them was intact.
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www.treasuredgliders.com


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#1038669 - 12/09/10 11:03 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: ssdreamsicles]
HagridsHut Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 657
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: ssdreamsicles
I do not think there needs to be more then one intact male in the same cage as a female.
Why risk this? You know when a female comes into heat there is going to be trouble.


Hi, Melissa! I whole-heartedly agree! agree Perhaps that's what Connie was referring to, as well. I think that we all concur that multiple intact males being housed with any number of females is just asking for trouble! I just wanted to make certain that I wasn't missing something. I routinely pair young male joeys together for pet-only homes and, because we're fairly new to breeding, I wanted to be sure this practice wasn't frowned upon! worried

I appreciate your input! Thanks, everyone!! grin -Alicia
_________________________

:grey: Andromeda, Malfoy, & Peeves; Arthur & Lily :wfb:


:rbridge: Severus Snape, Dolores Umbridge, Horace Slughorn, & Molly Weasley ... Glide free, my little angels! We will love and miss you FOREVER!





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#1038693 - 12/10/10 02:11 AM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered


I agree, Connie has a lot of experience and hopefully she will post on here regarding this. I personally don't have any intact males in the same cage. I don't want to take that risk of them possibly fighting and severely injuring each other (or worse). I do know a few that have kept intact males together with no problems. I think it's a personal choice. If I were to do it (which I don't plan on it) I would keep two brothers together that already know each other.

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#1038696 - 12/10/10 02:46 AM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
Adri Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 956
Loc: Homestead, FL
I have had both related and non related male pairs (intact) that have worked wonderfully. As a breeder I have many females in my glider room and this has never caused an issue with my male pairs. As with any pairing issues can arise but overall I feel you can have successful pairings of intact males.
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Mother of 2
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Slave to many glidin' gliders



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#1038745 - 12/10/10 10:21 AM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
DeniseDren
Unregistered


I have a pair of intact males that are unrelated but have been together since they were 9 weeks out of pouch. They are now close to 2 years old. They are in the same room with females also.

Most animals establish a pecking order between them to determine dominance. You see it in our pets, livestock, and wild animals...From dogs to chickens to horses to deer. It is part of life. Granted the challenge to determine dominance can end terribly sometimes.

Introducing on neutral ground helps...not allowing one to have the benefit of home turf over the other...and daytime introductions where they are sleepy has worked well for me.

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#1038764 - 12/10/10 11:33 AM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13746
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
I've had related males and unrelated males living together, who got along just fine, UNTIL they matured. Dads see their sons as competition. Brothers begin to have dominance issues. Unrelated males fight when a female comes in heat, even if she's in another room.

My daughter hand raised rejected brothers, from 3 weeks OOP. They got along just great until they matured. Then the dominant one became extremely aggressive, picking fights for no reason & hogging the food. After a couple months of trying to prevent his aggression, he was neutered. As soon as he was neutered, they got along great again, even tho only the dominant one was neutered.

I know there are intact males who do get along but I haven't had any in my house. I've even had neutered, related males (brothers and dad/son), fight when females came into heat! Because of this, I personally, won't have two intact males together. You can't control instinct.
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812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

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"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."

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#1038790 - 12/10/10 12:19 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 10569
Loc: IL (St. Louis area)
I tried helping a lady several years ago with her twin boys. They were the only gliders in the house and had been together since birth. Both boys were intact. They got along perfectly for three full years. They made it through sexual maturity without fussing one bit. Then, for seemingly no reason at all after years of peace, they turned on each other.

The owner said that they were trying to kill each other and she didn't know why. To be quite frank, I have no idea what suddenly triggered their aggression. Their cage was more than adequate. Their owner spent plenty of time with them, had them on a good diet, and had taken them to the vet to check for illness. She hadn't changed their environment or anything. As far as I can tell, these two brothers simply let their natural instinct to keep other intact males out of their territory get to them. It was my best educated guess.

Here is the happy ending! She separated the boys per my suggestion. After quite a few weeks of pushing, she finally agreed to neuter the boys because she hated seeing them apart. The boys remained separate for about a month after their neuter. They were reintroduced and went right back together with no issues.

I don't know if these two boys will NEVER fight again, but I think that having them fixed made a huge difference. I haven't heard from the owner, so I can only assume the boys are doing well. smile

I'm in no way saying that it isn't possible to keep intact males together. Each glider is unique after all. I simply believe that it's a bit silly to take the risk. Why not just have the males fixed and keep them together while greatly reducing the risk of injury to either glider?
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#1038961 - 12/10/10 03:42 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: StitchsMom]
HagridsHut Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 657
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: StitchsMom
Why not just have the males fixed and keep them together while greatly reducing the risk of injury to either glider?


Unfortunately, the answer to this is quite simply ... funding. Some folks are fortunate enough to have a local glider-knowledgeable vet who doesn't charge an arm and a leg for neuters. I would wager that most, however, do not have that luxury. Neutering a glider can certainly cost as little as $50 - $75, but that isn't the norm. Most experienced vets ( ...at least here in Virginia ) charge upwards of $200 - $400 to perform such surgeries. When purchasing a pair of male joeys, the additional expense of neutering BOTH is simply too daunting for many families.
_________________________

:grey: Andromeda, Malfoy, & Peeves; Arthur & Lily :wfb:


:rbridge: Severus Snape, Dolores Umbridge, Horace Slughorn, & Molly Weasley ... Glide free, my little angels! We will love and miss you FOREVER!





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#1038966 - 12/10/10 03:49 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
COWGAL Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 442
Loc: USA
I had two male brothers that when I got them were housed with their parents, and two other female who I believe were sisters. I took only the two males and eventually got them neutered just to avoid problems and to cut the smell. Now I have a male female pair and im glad I got the other two fixed.

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#1038986 - 12/10/10 04:19 PM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
xoerikae Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1334
Loc: NC, USA
what about the idea of neutering just one, instead of both?

i have two intact boys together, but they're only about six months old. i'm going to get one neutered soon. so far, they've been fine together.
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#1039687 - 12/12/10 11:32 AM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: kentucky
I think 2 males in one cage WITHOUT another female may get along. Just like with any critter u have some that will and some that will not. Now i do not think having a female in the mix is a good idea at all. Diff probs can happen. How do you know who bred her? You will never know this and can not give a proper linage on those joeys which can lead to inbreeding. Both males will try to breed her causing her way to much stress. Then u have fighting. This is bad and will happen at some point no matter how much they get along. If u want to keep the gliders in the same cage just neuter the non breeding males. There are many people who have had reverse trios with a neutered male work out. My Esme was from a colony of 5 with only 1 intact male and they do well.


Here are a couple pics as to why it is not a good idea.



This little boy has had it rough. It was touch and go there for a few days and in the end he had to have surg to remove his tear duct and eye. He is doing well and healing but very tramatized. He may never be the same glider again and has lost all trust in humans. All of this because his owners kept 3 intact males in one cage with a female. What is worse is it was his son's so no i do not belive related males in a cage with a female will get along cause they are brothers or son's.
_________________________
cloud9Melissa
www.treasuredgliders.com


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#1040202 - 12/13/10 09:16 AM Re: ? regarding the housing of intact male gliders [Re: HagridsHut]
buttercup
Unregistered


I have 2 intact males together as well. Jay & Silent Bob are brothers, around 4 yrs old now. I am very fortunate that they get along so well.

I had one scare moment when I had gotten all new cages, made them new toys, etc...Im not sure what they got into it over, but I'm guessing a totally new environment threw them "off" a bit. I didnt witness what set them off but when I ran in the glider room after hearing the crabbing, it looked to me like a stand off..they were apart but clearly MAD at each other.

I do keep 2 pouches in their cage...they seem to fuss with each other when they are in the pouch. It reminds me of siblings fighting... as in "MOM he's touching me!! MOOOOOM he's in MY spot!!!!" So, with 2 pouches, I at least can give one a different sleep option if brother keeps "picking" lol

Pouch fussing aside, they do get along very well, they share food bowls, treats, no agressiveness over that, in tent time they pretty much ignore me after about 5 minutes lol and follow each other around.

I agree with what was said above about the presence of females...hormones kick in and all that love, patience and cuddling goes right out the window!

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