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#1050718 - 01/04/11 04:39 PM Who came up with these diets?
AnBglidermommy
Unregistered


I understand that all these diets (HPW, BML, Pricillas, ext..) were created by different people but were they scientists, vets, just normal glider owners? Obviously they're all keeping our gliders alive and healthy for a long time but if they were created by just an adverage owner how do we know that they have the correct balance of all the nutrietion they need? I'm just curious and want to learn about this.

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#1050742 - 01/04/11 05:46 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


To know the answers to these questions, you probably need to speak with the diet creators.

PML was developed by Pockets (ordinary glider owner). I have not spoken with her directly to know what all was entailed. I know the base for her, and all the other "ML" diets is Leadbeater's diet. She does post some very good reads in links in a lot of the diet and health and hygiene threads.

HPW was developed after Peggy Brewer (ordinary glider owner) took PML to her vet and he suggested a few changes.

BML was developed by Bourbon (ordinary glider owner) after a TON of research.

Priscilla's diet - developed by Priscilla Price, a large-scale breeder.

Blended diet - developed by Candy Otte. She's posted a lot about her diet and research recently, so I'm sure she will come speak for herself here in a few. smile

Reep's diet - developed by Teresa/Dancing (another owner). Her gliders refused any diet with honey in it, so she developed her own.

A lot of this diet history is stored in the diet 101 archives. I'm not sure how much is still there since I read it all 2 Marches ago and GC has undergone several changes since then.

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#1050764 - 01/04/11 06:19 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
jimbo Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 137
Loc: FL
The SunCoast diet was created by a very experienced exotic pet vet, you can see her background here:

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/exotic-pet-vet.htm#drc

A "weekly menu" version of the SunCoast diet can be found here:

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-45.htm#menu

The pellet food used in the diet was created by a well known animal nutritionist, background here:

http://www.sugar-gliders.com/exotic-pet-vet.htm#drd

Unlike many other diet approaches, the pellet food is an important part of the diet, because it delivers consistent high quality nutrition. This can be a problem with gliders who are often selective / picky eaters and don't eat everything you offer to them - nutritional balance of what you offer is not the issue, it's the nutritional balance of what they eat that's important.

None of the above means the SunCoast diet is "better" than the others, it's simply a different approach, based on the science of how professionals at zoos, etc. feed exotic animals.
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#1050798 - 01/04/11 07:14 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
Hi Jimbo. Can you tell us how long gliders are living on this diet and is there bloodwork being done to back it up?
Hard to get blood on these little angels!
OT: seeing you reminds me I have to get some more cage cleaner/sheild. It works perfect with my H2O steamcleaner!!!!
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#1050855 - 01/04/11 10:13 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
jimbo Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 137
Loc: FL
We've been feeding the SunCoast diet since 2001, over many generations, and yes, there have been blood tests.

I think more importantly, what people have come to call the "SunCoast diet" is not something SunCoast came up with; we were given the diet by a very experienced exotic vet with a lot of work out in the field.

And later on, an animal nutritionist with decades of experience managing the exotic feeding programs at a number of different major zoos helped us tweak the diet just a bit based on what she had learned from her studies.

We just do what the experts in the field say is the best approach to feeding these animals; we're not claiming to be smarter or have a better diet than anybody else.

Glad to hear you appreciate the Cage Wash and Cage Shield, those products are another example of asking experts to help solve problems in ways far better than what we can come up with ourselves!
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#1050883 - 01/04/11 11:26 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
PML was developed by Pockets (ordinary glider owner).


If you get a chance to talk with Pockets, you will learn she is not just an ordinary glider owner but one very dedicated to doing as much research about gliders as she can.
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#1050887 - 01/04/11 11:44 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 6573
Loc: Kilgore, Texas
almost all my questions answered smile
gliders at the glider tree are averaging 12 plus years on an ensure based diet. how long are gliders on suncoast diet averaging?
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#1050892 - 01/05/11 12:01 AM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: Dancing]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
PML was developed by Pockets (ordinary glider owner).


If you get a chance to talk with Pockets, you will learn she is not just an ordinary glider owner but one very dedicated to doing as much research about gliders as she can.


Let me clarify - I use the term "ordinary glider owner" to mean that person is not a vet or PhD or what-have-you. I know there are quite a few people out and about that have forgotten FAR more than I know about gliders and yes, just from reading her posts I am certain that Pockets is an exceptional part of the glider community!

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#1050906 - 01/05/11 12:31 AM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1414
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Just wanted to add that the Priscilla Price diet was formulated as she worked very closely with her vet. She started by looking at the 25, 25, 50 diet and she and the vet made modifications and improvements slowly to get to the right balance of nutrients (she has a LOT of animals that she was feeding). She also made sure that the vitamin was made up of human-grade vitamins, to insure the quality of the vitamins... (we had this chat a month or so ago...lol)
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#1051831 - 01/07/11 12:46 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
jimbo Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 137
Loc: FL
Cora, this from Lisa:

We've been using the SunCoast diet since since 1999, so a bit over 10 years. I don't remember the Ensure diet being around when we started, but do remember Dr C commenting on it around 2004. How long have you been feeding this diet? Because it seems to me if you want to make a valid connection between diet and age, you'd have to look at gliders who had ever only eaten a specific diet.

We no longer have any of our original gliders, and we did not have any type of age information on them when we first started. Once we choose to retire our breeding gliders, we re-home them when appropriate. And when not appropriate, we keep them with us. Most of them get re-homed, but we do have gliders who were born here first generation, mostly those I've kept as pets, and most of them are still around. I recently lost my oldest glider, and I had decent age information on her when she came to live here. She passed at age 16, but she was not always fed the SunCoast diet.

So ask me again in another 4 - 5 years and I will have a better idea of what our life cycle average is based upon the diet we use. Since we've only been doing this since 1999, it will be a few more years before we enter a zone where gliders who have only been fed the SunCoast diet are becoming "elderly".

This discussion brings up an idea - those that maintain lists of the different diets might want to add the dates those diets started being widely used so we don't lose track of the history. This will empower those after us look at this "lifetime by diet" question further.
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#1051843 - 01/07/11 01:12 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
With Reeps diet, it was a process too. When Reep came to me he was almost completely bald from head to tail. He looked like a rat with mange.

I started him on BML and he ate it. Then someone sent me a sample of Wambaroo High Protein Suppliment and I started sprinkling that on his BML. He started to grow hair back. This went on for maybe 6 weeks then he refused to eat the BML.

I went through a process of elimination to see what it was he wasn't liking and it turned out to be the honey. I could make BML without honey and he would eat it. But anything I tried with honey, he wouldn't touch. I got watching my gliders and realized that many of them weren't eating the BML and each one of them would eat it without honey. So I had to come up with something that they would eat.

I came up with the Reep's Mix. At this time I had over 30 gliders. Each and every single one of them would go straight for the Reep's mix first every night. Once it was gone, they would then eat all the fruits and vegies and I had completely clean plates each and every morning.

Reep's hair really started growing back and within about 9 months, he had about 90% or more of his hair back and had gained weight to a healthy weight.

I've been feeding it ever since and at no time during the last 6+ years have I had less than 30 gliders on this diet.

I have healthy gliders. Those that have had joeys on this diet have had healthy babies and all the joeys were great weights oop.

My gliders don't stink either. Even my intact boys do not have that KNOCK YOU OVER WOW YOU ARE INTACT smell. Yes, they do smell a bit more than the rest but not over powering.

No, Reep's had not been clinically analysied but I have discussed Reep's diet with 3 different vets and they all feel it is good and since it is working for my gliders, not to change things.

OH, I did try adding bee pollen to the Reeps but again, the picky gliders wouldn't eat it. But I can see the benefits of adding in the bee pollen.

The important thing about diets is no matter how good and balanced they are, if your gliders won't eat it, it isn't any good for those gliders.
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Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1051864 - 01/07/11 02:02 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: jimbo]
Mandy Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 293
Loc: Tampa, FL
Originally Posted By: jimbo
The SunCoast diet was created by a very experienced exotic pet vet, you can see her background here:

The pellet food used in the diet was created by a well known animal nutritionist, background here:
unlike many other diet approaches, the pellet food is an important part of the diet, because it delivers consistent high quality nutrition. This can be a problem with gliders who are often selective / picky eaters and don't eat everything you offer to them - nutritional balance of what you offer is not the issue, it's the nutritional balance of what they eat that's important.


okay i am confused now I thought i was absolutely not supposed to feed pellets... when i first came here for advice thats what i got out of all the posts and threw away 2 yrs of pellett foods i bought from Pocket Pets???? Now you are confusing me. So it is important to feed pellets????

My Benny is on the Blended diet from Candy Otte and he loves it. He also gets 6-8 mealies every day. fruit and veggies... however he is very very picky with his veggies he loves carrots and avocados but if i feed him avocados he will NOT touch his blended diet food that nite.
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1 suggie: Benny M neutered DOB 7/2010 got him 9/2010
1 suggie: Bubbles F Rescue no tail got her 3/16/11 at approx 2 yrs -she died due to pneumonia 7/6/2015 RIP frown

black Labrador: Bogi RIP 8/10/13 the void in my heart will never be filled again.
2 Bunnies: Buddy & Rexi RIP Rexi 6/5/2014

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#1051867 - 01/07/11 02:05 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
Pellets will always be controversial. Suncoast sells two types of pellets. One is hard and the other is a soft pellet.

The difference is, pellets are NOT the main part of the diet. They are an addition to the diet. Pocket Pets will say to feed the pellets and some apple. That is NOT enough for gliders to remain healthy.

The hard pellets (when I use them, I use Happy Glider made by Pet Pro) are beneficial in helping keep glider's teeth clean but are not an essential part of Reep's diet. They are a treat item like yogies.
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620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.

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#1051869 - 01/07/11 02:15 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: Dancing]
Mandy Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 293
Loc: Tampa, FL
thanks for clarification so I will get just a few to use for that purpose only.
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1 suggie: Benny M neutered DOB 7/2010 got him 9/2010
1 suggie: Bubbles F Rescue no tail got her 3/16/11 at approx 2 yrs -she died due to pneumonia 7/6/2015 RIP frown

black Labrador: Bogi RIP 8/10/13 the void in my heart will never be filled again.
2 Bunnies: Buddy & Rexi RIP Rexi 6/5/2014

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#1051900 - 01/07/11 03:34 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
jimbo Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 137
Loc: FL
Mandy, it depends on the diet and on the pellets.

The SunCoast diet is *designed* around pellets because that is the approach used by professional keepers of exotic animals. That doesn't mean it's a better diet than others, just came from a different viewpoint with some different objectives.

In some other diets, people feed pellets as snacks, and other diets there are no pellets at all. In the end, what's important is the glider actually consumes the right balance of nutrients. Gliders can be picky and that's why there are lots of different diets.

There was a pretty detailed discussion of pellets a while back, if you would like to know more:

Pelleted food??
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#1051975 - 01/07/11 07:52 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
Viciousencounter Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 207
Loc: New Mexico
Originally Posted By: lovely1inred

Blended diet - developed by Candy Otte. She's posted a lot about her diet and research recently, so I'm sure she will come speak for herself here in a few. smile


I believe Candy is a certified nurse
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#1051980 - 01/07/11 08:00 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: Viciousencounter]
Mandy Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 293
Loc: Tampa, FL
Candy is a certified nurse i think you are right and to me it sounds she did a LOT of research even the vet I use (which she recommended to me in Tampa) seems to feel very comfortable with Candy's diet. My Benny loves it.

I on the other hand have a hard time finding veggies he likes he is VERY picky with his veggies.

Is there a limit on mealies to feed him?
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Mandy
1 suggie: Benny M neutered DOB 7/2010 got him 9/2010
1 suggie: Bubbles F Rescue no tail got her 3/16/11 at approx 2 yrs -she died due to pneumonia 7/6/2015 RIP frown

black Labrador: Bogi RIP 8/10/13 the void in my heart will never be filled again.
2 Bunnies: Buddy & Rexi RIP Rexi 6/5/2014

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#1052022 - 01/07/11 10:53 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Mandy...my monkeys get 5 or 6 mealies, but that's it. They're a great treat...but fattening so you don't want to feed TOO many.
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#1052603 - 01/09/11 12:27 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: DCMuffin]
Mandy Offline
Glider Explorer

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 293
Loc: Tampa, FL
okay thanks wow i really did OVERKILL it with the mealies then smile I gave him 6-8 at night and usually in AM another 2-3 smile i just loved watching him eat them he goes NUTS and its so cute when he crunches on them lol but I will cut that back right away!
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Mandy
1 suggie: Benny M neutered DOB 7/2010 got him 9/2010
1 suggie: Bubbles F Rescue no tail got her 3/16/11 at approx 2 yrs -she died due to pneumonia 7/6/2015 RIP frown

black Labrador: Bogi RIP 8/10/13 the void in my heart will never be filled again.
2 Bunnies: Buddy & Rexi RIP Rexi 6/5/2014

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#1052610 - 01/09/11 12:43 PM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
I would definitely steer clear of mealies in the evenings...you want them to have a good meal at night and eat everything and if they have mealies or other treats, they won't do that because their little bellies will be full!

Mealies in the morning works though! thumb
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#1053001 - 01/10/11 12:03 AM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: DCMuffin]
My_Sugar_Fix Offline
Out of Pouch

Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 71
Loc: Blissful paradise USA
Quote:
I would definitely steer clear of mealies in the evenings...you want them to have a good meal at night and eat everything and if they have mealies or other treats, they won't do that because their little bellies will be full!

Mealies in the morning works though!


I may have heard this before but don't remember this is GREAT advice. Mealies are good, I've noticed a difference in their fur (a little shinnier)... Anyway, but I have also noticed a little less is eaten at night... GIVE IT IN THE MORNING she says LOL laugh DUH!!!
Can we make this a disclaimer on everyones diets that list mealies as a treat or staple laugh for us duh-duh-dum-dummers out there ( I think I am a little tired...oh 1am YEP!!)

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#1053083 - 01/10/11 07:44 AM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 28202
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro Area
roflmao Hey, don't feel bad, I was a duh-duh-dum-dummer one day, too! LOL

Mealies are also good for gliders teeth - can't forget that! thumb
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#1053087 - 01/10/11 07:56 AM Re: Who came up with these diets? [Re: ]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


LOL y'all are cracking me up!

Really I think the mealie confusion starts with how many because there are so many different sizes of mealies out there. I try to feed treats mostly in the morning but sometimes I get home late and they just look so cute and their eyes are so big......

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