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#1061515 - 01/27/11 12:16 PM "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not
BenC Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 88
Loc: New York
I didn't want to hijack Stephanie's thread (http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...lid#Post1060813) , so decided to just open a new one and get some opinions.

I've seen a lot of advice saying the owners should take the bite from their gliders and few that say not to. I think I agree with the not to side as I don't see what gets accomplished by taking the bite. I think, the glider is stressed and that's it's way of saying I'm scared/angry go away.

So to the more experienced owners, how do you feel about the subject and what's you're rationale for or against.

Luckily this is not currently an issue for me, but more curiosity and hopefully is some benefit to owners that are dealing with biters.

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#1061521 - 01/27/11 12:30 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 22746
Loc: 80 acres of paradise in KS
For me, it depends....

If the bites are nipping type bites, non agressive, then I tend to take the bites but also distract to get them to stop.

If they are agressive lunging bites, then no, I don't take the bites. I wouldn't let a lion bite me so why would I let a glider. But I do NOT let them "make me go away". I will pull back from them but then I go right back to what I was doing (or trying to do) with them so they learn that biting is not going to get me to leave them alone.
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#1061527 - 01/27/11 12:46 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
BindiAndScrubbie Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 1837
Loc: Florida
This is a subject that will always get split in opinions. I can say that each biting case is different and it that case, may need to be handled different.
Some will say take it, some will say don't.

I can only tell you what I did here at my house for one particularly bad biting case.

When I first brought Chloe home, she was stressed. It started in the car, driving the 4 hours home. From day one, she crabbed at the slightest movement, sniff, breath....she'd lunge like lightening from her bonding pouch from the second it opened. She even lunged and bit the top of it when it was closed. lol She got my finger so many times I can't even tell you. She even drew blood on many occasions. One time she got the top of my hand and ripped it. I have a tiny scar from this. But I knew she was scared, not mean. I knew she had potential. I wore her in a bonding pouch around my neck EVERY day for 3 months. She still bit me every time I opened it. I made sure to always have a treat in my hand, but she usually managed to bite me before the treat. lol After the first few good bites, I stopped jumping and just took it. My husband couldn't believe that I had gotten past the stage of flinching but would just expect it to happen so it didn't scare me anymore. And pain is only pain, it goes away.
I'd open, she'd lunge, she'd bite, get the treat....I'd pet her. 3 months this went on. Then one day, it just stopped. I had gone most of the morning petting her through the pouch as usual and realized she hadn't crabbed. I opened the pouch. She looked at me differently....sniffed me and let me pet her. It was like the Heavens opened up, angels were singing.....she never bit me again. She even seemed to have this look about her like she was thinking....'Ok, I've been attacking this lady all this time and she still is nice to me, I guess I'll stop now'. And to tell the truth, she is my MOST sweet and loving glider I have. She surpassed Bindi in sweetness which I thought was impossible. She is such a joy to me and I really do believe that it's because of this process we'd gone through.

So in this case, I took the bites. It was worth it. I'd do it all over again.
_________________________
Davie

:rtmo:SpoiledRottenSuggies.com

Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy - Anne Frank

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#1061532 - 01/27/11 01:01 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
BenC Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 88
Loc: New York
Wow two great replies! Teresa, I think my sentiments echo yours. Davie, I'm curious about your relationship with Chloe. Did you try any other techniques with her or was this a case where taking the bite was the only thing that worked with her?

I can't believe you did that for 3 months. Did you have prior glider experience when you were going through this with Chloe or was she your first? Lucky for Chloe that you had the patience to work past it.

Well great comments and thoughts so far. I'd love to hear other owner's thoughts and experience with this.

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#1061537 - 01/27/11 01:20 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
Holydust
Unregistered


Goodness, that's scary. I hope I am able to do what you did, because my hamster Wobbles and I had an event during his life that made me terrified of him forever.

He'd just been brought home, and I knew I wasn't supposed to touch or bother him for 48 hours, so I was happily leaving him be. However, someone left the top opening of the cage off, and I looked over from my computer to see him wandering around on the table.

I panicked, tried to gently scoop him into my hand to quickly replace him, and we were halfway to the cage when he turned around and sank both his top and bottom chompers so deep into my fingertip that I could feel them both nudging at either side of my fingernail.

I managed not to drop him, blood was everywhere. What's funny is that I could tell this was just his way of testing what the heck these strange pink things were and not a malicious bite, but I was terrified to pick him up ever again. I never handled him without gloves after that, and he continued to bite the gloves so I assumed I'd never be able to handle him without them (I'm sure there was a similar scent thing going on, but I didn't know any of that back then). He lived out a full, healthy life without a lot of manhandling from us. He had ball time, racetrack time, lots of love, but no handling. My roommate called him "Bitey the Hamster".

How do you get over the fear of being bitten? I'm worried that if my suggies get too bitey I will have trouble being the strong parent I'm supposed to be without a lot of meditation and mantras.

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#1061548 - 01/27/11 01:40 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
GliderGuy93 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 397
Loc: Morristown, TN
I usually take the bites from my gliders. Neither of them are aggressive, and 9 times out of 10 they are just grooming me or they smell food on my hands. There is a big difference between an aggressive bite and a inquisitive bite. When you get an aggressive bite you know it, but an inquisitive bite is just "Hmmmm, this thing smells like mealworms" and it is just a little nibble. I tried to avoid getting bitten by Sydney when I first got her and I gave her plenty of love and treats, eventually she calmed down and she hasn't bitten me out of aggression since.
_________________________
Aaron

Sydney Victoria
:grey: :grey:


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#1061549 - 01/27/11 01:41 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
BindiAndScrubbie Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 1837
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: BenC
Wow two great replies! Teresa, I think my sentiments echo yours. Davie, I'm curious about your relationship with Chloe. Did you try any other techniques with her or was this a case where taking the bite was the only thing that worked with her?

I can't believe you did that for 3 months. Did you have prior glider experience when you were going through this with Chloe or was she your first? Lucky for Chloe that you had the patience to work past it.

Well great comments and thoughts so far. I'd love to hear other owner's thoughts and experience with this.


Chloe was my 4rth. And a few times I had pulled my hand away before she had gotten a chance to connect but then she would re attack it. So for her, for this scenario, I felt it better to show her that no matter what she did to me, I would still be there and show her love and compassion. Some would think this is crazy but this is what I did.

Now I'm not saying that everyone should do this. I just felt it best for my own circumstance. Giving her demeanor now, I'd do the same thing if I had to do it over again.

*now I must go kiss her because I'm teary eyed* lol
_________________________
Davie

:rtmo:SpoiledRottenSuggies.com

Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy - Anne Frank

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#1061561 - 01/27/11 01:59 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: ]
BindiAndScrubbie Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 1837
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Holydust
Goodness, that's scary. I hope I am able to do what you did, because my hamster Wobbles and I had an event during his life that made me terrified of him forever.

He'd just been brought home, and I knew I wasn't supposed to touch or bother him for 48 hours, so I was happily leaving him be. However, someone left the top opening of the cage off, and I looked over from my computer to see him wandering around on the table.

I panicked, tried to gently scoop him into my hand to quickly replace him, and we were halfway to the cage when he turned around and sank both his top and bottom chompers so deep into my fingertip that I could feel them both nudging at either side of my fingernail.

I managed not to drop him, blood was everywhere. What's funny is that I could tell this was just his way of testing what the heck these strange pink things were and not a malicious bite, but I was terrified to pick him up ever again. I never handled him without gloves after that, and he continued to bite the gloves so I assumed I'd never be able to handle him without them (I'm sure there was a similar scent thing going on, but I didn't know any of that back then). He lived out a full, healthy life without a lot of manhandling from us. He had ball time, racetrack time, lots of love, but no handling. My roommate called him "Bitey the Hamster".

How do you get over the fear of being bitten? I'm worried that if my suggies get too bitey I will have trouble being the strong parent I'm supposed to be without a lot of meditation and mantras.


Sorry, I didn't see this one. You know what, you most certainly don't have to take a bite if you don't want to. You do what YOU feel is best. Or take advice from several and configure it to what feels comfortable to you.
How I got over my fear was simply that I am human and I can control what makes me afraid. My sorrow for her outweighed my own fear so I did what I did. I do though, want to say again that you only do what you feel is best. That's all. wink
_________________________
Davie

:rtmo:SpoiledRottenSuggies.com

Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy - Anne Frank

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#1061570 - 01/27/11 02:06 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
BenC Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 88
Loc: New York
There is so much information and misinformation about gliders that for me (probably others as well) it's frustrating sifting through what to do at times. I'm starting to think maybe the biting issue is just as you and Teresa say, it depends. I'm glad that Chloe is a success story

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#1061571 - 01/27/11 02:07 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BindiAndScrubbie]
IslandGliders Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/29/10
Posts: 4182
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: BindiAndScrubbie

*now I must go kiss her because I'm teary eyed*


I'm all teary over here, too! What an amazing story, Davie!

I have had very little experience with aggressive bites, but I want to throw in my two cents because... well, because. roflmao

I have Michi, who never crabs but is "curiosity biter" still to this day.

I have Pasha, who huffed and puffed and tried to blow the pouch down when I first got her, but who never really followed through on her threats.

And I have Novak, who really nailed me on my thumb the second day he was home.

I am new to gliders so Pasha kind of taught me a bad thing, in that I learned that if I pushed past Pasha's crabbing, nothing really happened. She'd crab up a storm, grumble, mumble, curse me under her breath... but it was all just hot air.

So then I get Novak, who is telling me in no uncertain terms that I'm moving too fast and he's scared, but I thought he was just being like Pasha. Of course, no two gliders are the same. When I pushed Novak's boundaries, he followed through with what he had been TRYING to tell me. Since then, I listen to my gliders a lot more. Or at least, I learned to in theory. None of my gliders ever crab any more.

When Novak bit me, I was so shocked that I took the bite. And I like Davie's explanation of, "It's just pain and it will go away." Because, you know, they are sugar gliders. They weigh 100 grams. You don't have to take the bite, but don't be afraid of them, because they really can't hurt you.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I have Michi who is just the sweetest glider but will still chomp on me from time to time just to... I don't even know. See if I'm full of sap? See my reaction? I can't really figure her out. She'll be climbing on me and chomp on me. Or grab my finger, chomp it, and then climb onto my hand. CHOMPCHOMPCHOMP. I'm starting to think it's how she says "hi!" I take those "bites" because I know it would only frighten her if I jumped or pulled away. They really aren't painful; they never break the skin. So I see no harm in just ignoring that and hoping she grows out of it.

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#1061574 - 01/27/11 02:18 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
GliderGuy93 Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 397
Loc: Morristown, TN
Quote:
There is so much information and misinformation about gliders that for me (probably others as well) it's frustrating sifting through what to do at times.


That is very true. It seems like every time I have a question I get 5 different answers. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. thumb
_________________________
Aaron

Sydney Victoria
:grey: :grey:


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#1061576 - 01/27/11 02:19 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: IslandGliders]
BenC Offline
Joey Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 88
Loc: New York
[/quote]
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I have Michi who is just the sweetest glider but will still chomp on me from time to time just to... I don't even know. See if I'm full of sap? See my reaction? I can't really figure her out. She'll be climbing on me and chomp on me. Or grab my finger, chomp it, and then climb onto my hand. CHOMPCHOMPCHOMP. I'm starting to think it's how she says "hi!" I take those "bites" because I know it would only frighten her if I jumped or pulled away. They really aren't painful; they never break the skin. So I see no harm in just ignoring that and hoping she grows out of it. [/quote]

Early on the bite to figure out what this finger thing is and while a tad uncomfortable wasn't significant. That's the hardest she's ever bitten me. My wife got a nasty bite from Luna (drew blood) but she was trying to manhandle her and I explained what she did wrong and haven't had any other episodes.

Now I get playful bites on the finger which I totally enjoy. Don't know if I'm extremely lucky or what. I'm getting her sister in mid Feb, so hoping my luck continues.

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#1061586 - 01/27/11 02:29 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
Sister_Sue
Unregistered


I for one will not take the bit if he's just being mean
I will let them nibble but I stop them when the nibble starts to get harder,but that's just me it seems the older I have gotten the less pain I can handle shakehead

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#1061590 - 01/27/11 02:41 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: ]
BindiAndScrubbie Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 1837
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Sister_Sue
I for one will not take the bit if he's just being mean

Absolutely not, if it's soley because they are 'being mean' or aggressive then I woudln't take the bite. In Chloe's case, she was an 8 week old baby. She was scared and confused, being separated from her mom. I knew her attacks were fear based and she was young enough to come out of it. At least I was 'almost' certain, guess you can never be too certain, can you.

My fifth glider, Seri, she's a 'just because' biter. She's very sweet and playful but she has given me the play bites for no reason since the day I got her. I could tell the difference and in her case, I do not take them. I remove my finger when she does it.


I will let them nibble but I stop them when the nibble starts to get harder,but that's just me it seems the older I have gotten the less pain I can handle shakehead


Your last sentence made me chuckle. lol
_________________________
Davie

:rtmo:SpoiledRottenSuggies.com

Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy - Anne Frank

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#1061591 - 01/27/11 02:41 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 13744
Loc: Vincennes, IN, USA
Biting, crabbing, lunging and running away, are a gliders ONLY defenses. I go so slow with bonding, that if I get bitten, I know it's my fault. If I take away their defense of biting, they will eventually give up and submit to me. But I don't feel they bond fully to me that way. If I earn their trust, the bond grows much stronger and deeper.

Even when I get rescues in who have to be vetted/operated on for a broken something, neutered, medicated, put in an ecollar, etc.; once they've healed, I start the bonding process from the start, just as if I just got them.

I wouldn't want to be forced into submitting to someone, because I've given up trying to defend myself. I'd never fully trust them. But, if they respect me and let me learn to trust them, that resulting bond will never go away.
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#1061802 - 01/27/11 09:41 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: suggiemom1980]
Holydust
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: suggiemom_1980
Even when I get rescues in who have to be vetted/operated on for a broken something, neutered, medicated, put in an ecollar, etc.; once they've healed, I start the bonding process from the start, just as if I just got them.


This is GREAT advice! I will remember this, and hopefully not have to use it. But it makes a lot of sense.

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#1061952 - 01/28/11 08:17 AM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
lovely1inred
Unregistered


I've had one glider bite me at this point - a real blood-drawing bite. Completely my fault. A baby I knew was scared, in a new home, and not completely trusting and she got out of the cage and wanted to streak across the room. So I grabbed. The #1 no-no working with trust issues, and I grab her. Well she bit hard! I scared the poo out of her though, I can't blame her for that. I think if it's my fault, then yeah, I ought to take the bite.

Grooming nibbles are just nibbles and I consider those love.

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#1061969 - 01/28/11 09:01 AM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
1daddyglider1 Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Lecanto Florida
If this is for new sugar glider parents then I think you have to determine the difference between:
Grooming
Nipping
Tasting
Pinches
Communication nips:That can get harder if we don't listen.
Scared Hard Bites

Also the sounds that come with the nips or bites after crabbing and then lunge bite.

For me I don't take the bite, but do to a certain extent enjoy a licking and will deal with a nip mixed in but try to teach them to do it without the pinch or nip.
I don't force past a scared crab to receive a bite.
I let the glider baby calm down first and then decide what to do. If I am doing "Parental" bonding then if I get a nip I will move or position my hand so it isn't easy for them to nip my hand in the pouch.

I don't see where forcing a glider to get so scared that it has to bite you is a way for new parents to tame/bond a sugar glider.

Also a territorial crab and lunge, where the glider runs across the cage to bite is anything I would allow them to do.
Art

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#1062395 - 01/28/11 10:05 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: Dancing]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
Originally Posted By: Dancing
For me, it depends....

If the bites are nipping type bites, non agressive, then I tend to take the bites but also distract to get them to stop.

If they are agressive lunging bites, then no, I don't take the bites. I wouldn't let a lion bite me so why would I let a glider. But I do NOT let them "make me go away". I will pull back from them but then I go right back to what I was doing (or trying to do) with them so they learn that biting is not going to get me to leave them alone.


Totally agree, I wouldn't let a lion bite me either!!! roflmao - (I agree with the rest of what Teresa said too, though, lol).
_________________________
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Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#1063105 - 01/30/11 01:36 AM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
haleighallen
Unregistered


Blahh. I really hope the girls I'm getting aren't biters :/ I was biten by an Alaskan Malamute and now anything that bites me really shakes me up. Ughh. Haha


Edited by haleighallen (01/30/11 01:37 AM)

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#1064533 - 02/01/11 11:43 AM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
MizzZombie Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 15
Loc: Raleigh NC
Hi there,

I'm new to Gliders I've had my babies since Last thursday night they are making leaps and bounds by the day the only problem is my male is rather bitey. I actually got to hold him and pet him for the first time last night I kept my finger tips away from his face and calmed him from crabbing and after a bit he would poke his head out and I could pet him between the ears. We're also letting him sniff fingers and if he does get bitey pushing our finger gently tword his face and just like the dogs I had when I was younger he seems to realize he's not going to get what he wants.

I hope to keep every one posted on progress we started aversion therapy last night.
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and Gusigus Amadeus Maximus my rescue rat a brown dumbo I got him from a man who kept him in a bucket after unsuccessfully housing him with three bald rats. He's was skiddish now he's quite tame and loves his cuddles.

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#1064539 - 02/01/11 11:52 AM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
Vona Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 12/04/10
Posts: 2070
Loc: WV
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/676642


Take a read at this smile It has opened my eyes immensely and it is such wonderful advice and it has me on the right track to having shuggle monkies smile
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Mommy to 4 precious suggies

:bb: Lani and Boo
:rtmo: Akio and Amorette

Glide free Boo(Elena's)Ricochet,Little Abby and PapaSugz cry

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#1064553 - 02/01/11 12:21 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BenC]
Mastiff_Mama Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 07/01/10
Posts: 917
Loc: Missouri
If they were aggresive bites, I would not take them. But when they are the grooming or exploring or terrible twos bites, I would... but I would also try and distract them so they would stop the biting. I have been using feathers to distract them and they work great. Seems like the glider immidiately goes for the feather and plays with it
_________________________
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and
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#1064615 - 02/01/11 02:08 PM Re: "Take the Bite" - Good idea or not [Re: BindiAndScrubbie]
wyndsong
Unregistered


Thank you for your story. I have an adorable male, he allows petting in his nest with his mate and in the cage. When I pick him up he crabs and bites. I'm going to try the pouch and the patience. Thank you again for your story.

wyndsong (Pat) mommy to Lacota and Kiowa

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