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#109205 - 06/10/06 03:15 PM Is it true about pinkies?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've heard that if you feed your glider pinkies, it can sometimes affect the chances of them eating their young - They get so used to a high protein diet that they are more likely to cannabalize their joeys in an effort to get more protein.

Is this true? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#109206 - 06/10/06 03:40 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
That is just not true. Gliders are very intelligant and can certainly tell their babies from a pinky. Two entirely different scents. Gliders will eat their own if there is something wrong with them, proper diet is not in existence or they are stressed but not because they ate a pinky. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

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#109207 - 06/10/06 04:00 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with Carrie... it is so Not True <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />. Like said above, the only reasons a glider will kill it's young is if there is something wrong with the joey or the Mom has not enough milk etc. They do this as a survival instinct, in the wild any signs of weakness or illness can attract predators.

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#109208 - 06/10/06 05:39 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I disagree here, sorry. I had one glider that I had bought, my first male from a pet store, his name was Peppy Le Pew. He was my first glider, and over a year old. Knowing that his mate died I then bought another one, Sweetie Pie. I introduced them slowly, and within a month they got along. I gave them pinkies on a weekly basis, in fact so much so that I started breeding them. I had also bought 3 other poor little guys one of which I still have and is the sweeties thing ever, his name is Scooby Doo. I bought those 3 from the same pet store I bought Peppy from. They were handraised by some breeder that wasn't far from me, the main thing I disagreed with the fact that the poor things only knew cat food as a diet, and it took me over 2 weeks to get them accustomed to something healthy.

Okay back to my point. It was Christmas eve and I went to get my gliders out to play, and at this point I still gave pinkies, and I had 2 joeys twins 2 weeks OOP, and with their eyes open. Peppy bit me so hard I should have went to get stitches, as he bit me right to the bone. Okay maybe I thought he didn't want to get held so I left him alone.

In looking later at the cage I did my nightly check up and head count, 1 joey was missing, and I couldn't find traces of it anywhere, let alone blood. Nothing.

I thought to myself that this was strange, and maybe the mom and dad thought that something was wrong with the joey, but why I couldn't understand they killed it at 2 weeks I didn't know.

Christmas night. I go in again to get my gliders. Peppy proceeds to bite me even harder on the pinky. Hurt like the dickens. I am only 5'7 125 pounds so I am thin, and I tell ya when he bit, it wasn't no love tap, it was a bite. Bled all over. Again I did head count.. The other joey was gone to, again no traces of anything, no body parts, looked in that cage everywhere, up and down for an hour, checked the bedding everything.

Due to this I was forced to get rid of Peppy, and slowly introduced Scooby into the cage with Sweetie. I stopped giving pinkie mice, and breeding them, and I have never had that happen since.

So take it as fact or fiction, but since I have quit feeding pinkies I have not had a joey come out of the pouch and canabolised at any age. It is not something that you want to see or discover trust me. It broke my heart, as I can only imagine the poor suffering those poor helpless joeys suffered without me even hearing it, as they are in my livingroom. I do believe that there is a link.

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#109209 - 06/10/06 06:07 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
Okay so was it the fact that you got rid of Peppy or the fact that you quit feeding pinkies or the fact that there might have been something wrong with that baby. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> It seems there are too many variables for you to blame it on the pinkies alone. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />

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#109210 - 06/10/06 06:16 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I got rid on Peppy, quit feeding pinkies all at the same time. Since then no more problems. Not one. Sorry I didn't clarify this but I had started later feeding the pinkies and then the attitude started kicking in. Then the canabilism. One I got rid of Pepply, and quit feeding pinkies I have not had it happen since. From the point of getting rid of Peppy there has not been 1 pinkie in my cage since, and frankly with what I have seen there will never be another.

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#109211 - 06/10/06 06:28 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Carrie T Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 06/10/01
Posts: 4049
Loc: Doniphan Mo
It is recommended that parents who consistently cannibalized their young be taken out of a breeding situation. I fed my first pinky in 2001 and have never had a problem. My biggest concern is making sure you have a safe and healthy source of pinkies. I'm so sorry for your loss but firmly believe it had nothing to do with the pinkies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />

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#109212 - 06/10/06 07:19 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 10569
Loc: IL (St. Louis area)
Nope. I give my kids pinkies as treats pretty regularly and have never had a problem with it. I even gave Sprocket a pinkie when she had two joey rear ends hanging out of her pouch and it never even crossed my mind (or hers apparently) that it would lead to any harm. I've offered them to suggie mommies with joey's of all ages with no problem whatsoever.
_________________________
~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~

:grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:

>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<

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#109213 - 06/10/06 08:44 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
bugsmama Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 745
Loc: Hattiesburg, MS
I have two two week oop joeys and I give pinkies and haven't had a problem.. I don't see how she could have mistaken the joeys for a pinky.. they don't resemble each other in the least and have totally different smells... I worried more while the babies were IP and actually LOOKED similar to a pinky mouse..
_________________________
Mama to:
T & B ~my bio babies
N,C,G & H ~ step babies
Wraith & Rayna and soon to be Izzy & Ali~Gliderbabies
Max ~ my German Shepherd
And wife to the most amazing man I've ever met! smile

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#109214 - 06/10/06 09:39 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would have removed the other joey immediatly. omg.

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#109215 - 06/10/06 09:52 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I had no idea, I was new to breeding at the time, and didn't know about forums that could have been out there to guide me. Had I known then what I know now, and had someone say take that other joey out of there, trust me, I would have listened. I still fear pinky mice for that reason however.

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#109216 - 06/10/06 09:56 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I wish that it were me instead of those joeys. I cried and cried for days. However on that note I have learned, grown, and have better tempermented gliders (with Scooby Doo). Someone told me that some males will do that so they can breed again and produce more joeys. I dunno, however I still wonder if there is a link to those pinky mice.

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#109217 - 06/10/06 11:44 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am so sorry for your loss. That must have been a terrible thing to go through, especially at Christmastime. However, it is what they call in the scientific arena "anecdotal evidence", which is basically a coincidence until proven otherwise. The only way to prove a hypothesis is to show that the outcome is always or usually the same when a certain variable is introduced. You can't introduce two variables at a time (stopping feeding pinkies and removing Peppy) and say one or the other caused the outcome.

I do understand what you are saying. Because you had this experience which was associated, at least in your heart and mind with feeding pinkies, you don't want to feed them anymore for fear of going through it again. I don't blame you for feeling that way. But it's kinda like if you get sick after eating a particular food (for example, breakfast tacos that had sat out too long...this happened to me) and not wanting to ever eat that food again. Even though you know in your mind that it was the fact that they were spoiled and not that all breakfast tacos will make you sick, you just can't bring yourself to eat any breakfast tacos again.

Back to the topic, stories like yours are probably how the (IMO) myth of pinkies causing cannibalism got started. Since the majority of the time when people feed pinkies to breeding gliders it does not cause them to cannibalize the joeys, science would tell us that there is not a cause and effect relationship. Serina, I'm not suggesting that you should start feeding them again. Do what you feel comfortable with, but I have to disagree with your premise that the pinkies were the cause. If nothing else, I hope that makes you feel better that it wasn't anything you did. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#109218 - 06/11/06 01:42 AM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't agree either that gliders will mistake their joeys for pinkies. In my experiece as a breeder when one momma has canabalized a joey the next time she is pregnant I give her pinkies and EVERY time I have done this she (a few different moms not the same one... once a mom rejecets or canabalizes twice I will take them out of breeding and have as pets <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> thats my plan IF it ever comes to that) has always kept the next joeys. Not all my mommas get pinkies all the time but the ones that have had a problem in the past always get them and I have never had a problem since I started doing it.
That is just my experience though, but it has worked for over 4 1/2 years now.

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#109219 - 06/11/06 08:44 AM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: RSXTC]
Anonymous
Unregistered


But according to Serina, she feeds both mom(carrying joeys)and dad pinkies. Do u need to feed dad the pinkies as well or only mom? as maybe her male glider thought it looked like one. i personally havent given them any, i cant find them for sale around and im a little afraid of the giving the poor live baby to them.. i personally have 2 female mices at home and my bf has 1 male mice.. they look so adorable...

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#109220 - 06/11/06 11:44 AM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: RooGrandma]
Anonymous
Unregistered


My dads will some times get them.. boys are just as smart as girls. Some gliders (males and females) just don't make good parents for what ever reason and this could of been the case with her male.

I don't like feeding the live pinkies only because I heard the cries of the poor baby, BUT you can find frozen in most pet stores... I'm not sure about where you live so it might be more hard for you.

It is NOT a MUST to feed pinkies. It is just a personal choice. Those who do feed or who do not feed should never be bashed or looked down on for doing what thye have decided is best for their gliders.

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#109221 - 06/11/06 11:50 AM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: RSXTC]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yeah, well there may be several reasons why joeys get cannibalized and a lack of sufficient protein is one of them (and this is the case with several animals, actually).

I'd imagine that feeding more pinkies would have a reverse effect on what is being inquired about in this thread.

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

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#109222 - 06/11/06 07:40 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you PeeperKeeper for understanding my situation, as you seem to be the one person that has stuck up for me on this board since I got here. I appreciate that more then anything. I always had my gliders with me, and on that note I never fed live pinkies (eww) I always froze mine. To me I just have 2 much 2 worry about not to consider this as a problem. I just wish that I would have taken that last joey out, but then I would have had to separate mom to rear the joey to increase the chance for servival, but in not eating both that night I being a breeding beginner at the time thought that maybe there must have been something wrong with the glider. To me I felt the other joey female would have been alright, or she would have been gone that same night.

I know that my Sweetie Pie loves them, I am just so scared, and to my recollection I don't even know if I have ever fed him (Scooby) one.
Could it have been my male, I'm not sure. I never had a problem with him up until that point. I later discovered that he had been picked on while in the pet store, where he was at for awhile, but I never noticed the problem here. His personality just switched overnight. I dunno if it was the pinkies or what.
However when I bought the 3 males from the same pet store I bought Peppy from I was in there several times giving them love and attention, almost every week, sometimes more then that. They looked so depressed, and I would go in and make them pouches, and scrunchies all kinds of stuff, which from sleeping in a plastic tube was the ritz to them. I would go in and they would all be hundled in the pouches.

I was the only customer allowed to touch them, as no one else did, they feared the little things. I would get them out all the time, pet them, kiss them, play with them and put them back. They must have been in that store for 6 months, as no one wanted them.

Then I had my husband call the owner up around Christmas time. I wasn't gunna see those poor things locked up in a petstore while the owner went on vacation. I wanted to give them a good loving home, but Garry made me promise one thing, I had to sell 2 of them, and could only keep 1. I had them here for a few weeks to make sure that they were sound and healthy. Then one of the males came up and kissed me, and I knew then which one I was going to keep. I had tears in my eyes as when I looked into his there was a connection there, as to say 'thank you for bringing me home'.

Later I did find a home for the other 2, but I was adiment that with everything that they had been through that they stick together. That I did.

Then I put Scooby in the cage with the females once they were introduced and the rest is history. He is the sweetest male that I have ever seen. I still have yet to see a mean bone in this little guys body. He loves his wheel, toys, and the fact that he finally gets real food, not cat food, like he had for over 1 year. Not wanting to change his temperment out of fear I don't think that he has ever had a pinky. I am terrified of what might happen. I feel responcible for those joeys death, and almost quit breeding because of it I felt that bad, but I thought to myself, I would try another male, and it was the best decission that I ever made.

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#109223 - 06/11/06 07:45 PM Re: Is it true about pinkies? [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you sil to for understanding. I didn't want to leave you out. LOL Thank you for saying that it is my choice and sticking up for me on that issue.

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