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#109345 - 06/11/06 07:12 AM Ensure Question
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
Recently I have seen it posted if a glider is constipated you should not give it Ensure. Is this a fact or just someone's opinion. Ensure contains fiber and you can even purchase the high fiber version. I'm not defending Ensure but would like to know if there is any basis for the statement.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#109346 - 06/11/06 09:09 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
Charlie, I have to agree with you. Ensure does contain fiber in it and that would make no sense. I have never heard that one should not be fed Ensure if constipated. This is a good question and may just fall under the glider myth section perhaps? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
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#109347 - 06/11/06 09:17 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


When Ling-Ling was sick, and before I got her to vet, I was told to give her Ensure...anything but the chocolate variety. Where did you read you shouldn't give it to them?

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#109348 - 06/11/06 12:21 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmm, I'm not sure about this either. The only time that I know of that you are Not to feed Ensure is if the glider is dehydrated. I can't remember reading anything about not giving when constipated <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

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#109349 - 06/11/06 01:40 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 5830
Loc: USA
I'm still wondering why we aren't supposed to give them Ensure if they are dehydrated. It has vitamins too and is a liquid. ?? (in the case you can't get them to take anything else)
_________________________
Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.

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#109350 - 06/11/06 01:53 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I'm still wondering why we aren't supposed to give them Ensure if they are dehydrated. It has vitamins too and is a liquid. ??

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Because when the body is dehydrated it absorbs fluids from the system faster than usual. When fed Ensure if dehydrated, the gliders body sucks all the fluids out leaving a pasty/chalky lump in the digestive tract which can cause a blockage. This can be very painful and even fatal for the glider. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

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#109351 - 06/11/06 04:33 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 9910
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I might've erroneously posted once (I hope only once) about not giving Ensure if the glider was constipated. I meant dehydrated (for the reason given), and made the connection in my mind between being dehydrated and constipated and made a leap. (I plead lack of enough sleep <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) I believe I was immediately corrected (by Jen or someone).

My sincere apologies if I am the source of any confusion.
_________________________
Owned by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

• 2003: Hiroshi (M)
• 2009: Herbie (M)

:rbridge:
• 2002-2004: Keiko (F) and baby Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
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#109352 - 06/11/06 07:49 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Charlie...when Peek died..he had an intestinal blockage like his dad died of at the same age. Peek died at 1 year 26 days, his dad at 1 yr 25 days. We rushed him to the vet, where he was trying to vomit (Ensure)...because the water had been pulled out, it was extremely thick and claylike, and nearly choked him to death at the vets 3 hours before he died of the blockage-and may have hastened his demise.

My vet said that because of the rapid water loss in the Ensure due to the dehydration he was experiencing because of the blockage and not drinking...it turned claylike-he couldn't get it either up or down once it started coming up...it was sticking in his throat. It was, in fact, Ensure causing the issue. He got a little bit all the way up-extremely thick and pasty-not near the amount he consumed, however. His (the vet's) advice was if we suspected dehydration, constipation (indicating lack of sufficient water in the body) or blockage...NOT to give Ensure (which was what we had done in an attempt to get him to eat/drink something). We learned the hard way. While it may not happen in every case, it can, and if it starts to come back up, dehydration can turn deadly from choking. I'm the one who started that after Peek...feeling caution was better than being sorry (as we were).

After watching two gliders suffer and die that way...I felt it was responsible to say something. I still have nightmares.

Edit: Here was my beautiful Peekster, in his pic of the week...taken shortly before his death.


Attachments
583426-PeekMovies.jpg (44 downloads)



Edited by Xfilefan (06/11/06 08:12 PM)
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#109353 - 06/12/06 06:46 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
This presents a new problem among glider owners. If we are advised to not give Ensure to a glider when it is dehydrated or constipation what is the best solution. Ensure was originally designed for people who have difficulty taking solid food. Because of the nutritional values of the Ensure and the fact that most gliders will drink it we have used Ensure for years with sick gliders. Could it be that in the two cases mentioned there were other factors affecting the way these particular gliders reacted.

I have never had a glider react to Ensure in this manner. I do know of a glider that gets diarrhea when he eats Ensure but this is an isolated case. One of the cautions about Ensure is possible constipation. However I would think that most any food ingested would cause a similar condition if the body rapidly drained all the liquid from it.

If the symptoms Jen mentioned are am ongoing problem with sugar gliders I would think a similar situation would happen when Ensure is constantly being given to sick humans. Any one else who have had problems with this product please let us know. This is one of the ways we learn the dos and don'ts about sugar gliders.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#109354 - 06/12/06 11:41 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I used to feed Darcy's diet - 2 of my boys and 1 of my girls had chronic constipation (every day they struggled). I fed oranges and tomatos, etc to try to compensate, but nothing seemed to work. I switched off the Ensure & all the gliders with constipation issues were fine after about 2 weeks.

I'm not sure how much this helps you, but it was my opinion that the Ensure actually caused the constipation in a few random gliders. Like you mentioned previously, it could just be an isolated issue with certain gliders, but I don't think I was the first to have this experience feeding Ensure.

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#109355 - 06/12/06 11:54 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This make me wonder about whether a diet that I am feeding could be harmful and not as healthy for the gliders as we thought. If Ensure causes constipation and there have been known cases where gliders have passed due to intestional blockages, then is the Darcy's diet okay to feed? I have saw where two of my girls can poop large amounts and I never knew such little cuties could produce that much waste, while my other one (who is in a seperate cage) seems to not poop as much but still poops every night. There is no hissing nor struggling while pooping and they enjoy the mix along with a few fruits and veggies. (they do not consume as much of these items since I started with the ensure) Should there be a concern whether or not we might be causing intestional blockages by using ensure all together or is this something that is okay as long as thier water consumption is adequate?

By no means am I trying to knock the Darcy's diet, for this is the only time that I can say my babies have enjoyed eating and have gained an adequate amt. of good weight. I just needed to know for my on peace of mind and for the sake of my little one's health. I would not know what I would do if I lost one of my babies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

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#109356 - 06/12/06 11:55 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Now that you mention that Monster, I have heard a couple of my gliders hiss a little bit when trying to poo. I would give them cantalope or apple juice to help them but couldn`t understand why they`d get constipated <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />. Maybe this is the problem too but it would only happen once in a while, so it`s kind of hard to me to blame it on the ensure when it wasn`t a constant thing. The last few days I`ve been slowly switching them to Judie`s BML because my one boy decided he didn`t like ensure anymore. It`s funny that I`m hearing all this bad stuff about ensure right after I began to switch their diet.

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#109357 - 06/12/06 12:01 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


OK Carey, we must have been typing at the same time and I just now read your post. This is all so weird because My Nicky stopped eating the ensure and he would hog all the veggies and protein while the other 3 who loved the ensure would go right for the ensure and yogurt but wouldn`t touch anything else, at least not until much much later in the night or even morning. My gliders poop a ton too lol. Maybe this is just coincidence but it was bugging me to share this.

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#109358 - 06/12/06 12:03 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


It is probably just like people, some people can eat anything while others must be very careful what they eat. Such as those that are lactose intolerant. Milk is obviously very good for you, but if your body can't handle it, you have to adjust your diet. There is probably not one perfect sugar glider diet out there, you have to find what works for your specific glider.

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#109359 - 06/12/06 12:50 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 16758
Loc: St. Johns, Florida
One thing everyone must remember is just because a diet is wonderful for some gliders it does not mean that it will be good for all gliders. If your glider will not eat it or has problems with bowel movements due to the diet I would suggest to research other diets and to find a knowledegable vet in Sugar gliders to talk with (the second part really does seem to be a huge problem with many). I had my gliders on the Darcy diet for quite some time with no weight gain or any other problems, however, once I spoke with my vet who I must say is HIGHLY intelligent when it comes to gliders, he was concerned at the vitamin intake the gliders would be receiving and stated in his opinion although it would be beneficial for a sick glider he does not think one should be on it constantly. Once again, all vets will think differently and all gliders will react differently and only we know our own gliders and what they will and will not eat or tolerate health wise.
_________________________
Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.


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#109360 - 06/12/06 12:59 PM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the advice, I will continue to do some research and see if I need to continue on this diet or if I need to switch to something else. They were on BML and I tried it every different way with no luck. Even tried Judies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I will check back on this post and see if any new info comes along but as of now I appreciate all the help that has been given <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#109361 - 06/13/06 12:31 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 3060
Loc: u.s.a.
sustagen is suppose to be ensure. i spoke to darcys mom on this. if you look up sustagen it is actually boost not ensure. they are very similar. but boost is the sam e as sustagen which is exported under this name.

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#109362 - 06/13/06 07:32 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1659
Loc: Wallis Texas
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
he was concerned at the vitamin intake the gliders would be receiving and stated in his opinion although it would be beneficial for a sick glider he does not think one should be on it constantly.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

This has long been one of my concerns with all of the so called approved diets.
Charlie H
_________________________
Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]

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#109363 - 06/13/06 08:25 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I had my two on the Ensure diet for a short time. No matter what way I mixed the BML they refused to eat it, so I switched them over as Badger was needing to be neutered and I worried that he was not getting all the necessary nutrients.

I too like Charlie worried that they were getting vitamin overload and researched other diets as best I could. They only one I found without all the added vitamin supplements was PML. We are on that now and they are doing great.

I do know that if either glider ever was sick or doing poorly that I would offer Ensure if needed but only for a short recovery period.

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#109364 - 06/14/06 04:55 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 8899
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I don't know if this will help clarify my position-and I do think it's acceptible for a healthy glider-by healthy I also mean no issues pertaining to low body fluids (ie dehydration-I don't consider a glider that is dehydrated to be healthy while that state exists, whether for an hour, or days).

First (as we all know) Ensure was designed for people, and not gliders. Take that as beside the issue, except for this: a glider can fatally dehydrate in a matter of hours. It usually takes a person days to die from lack of water, mostly because we are so much bigger than they are, with greater resources. We also do not have a fur coat, and a greater ability to sweat to cool off. Their body can pull needed water out of a food amazingly fast...even in a person that is dehydrated or starving, you give food/fluids slowly...because the shock of too much too fast can throw the victim either into shock...or death.

As intelligent as our little friends are...and as charismatic and diverse in personality...that does not extend to an ability to reason that approaches a human's. If it did, gliders would not Self Mutilate. They do that because they cannot understand the pain or discomfort...it's source or cause...what to do about it...or that it could be temporary. Instinct takes over, which is not the case with humans.

When a glider chokes, it will continue to try and bring it up the same way, by gagging, even if it doesn't work, until the obstruction comes up....or the glider dies. It's reflex, and all they can do by themselves.

A person has the ability to reason. We may think "this isn't working-try something else"...like drinking something, working or expanding the throat to make more room, forcing the diaphragm into a chair back so air can help dislodge the obstruction (as a few examples). This would never occur to a glider. Plus their throat is MUCH narrower than ours, taking less volume to block it, and I don't know how flexible-they could have more in that department, or less, than humans.

Here is a parallel: As a child, my parents gave me St. Joseph's aspirin. There were no warnings on the label, except for overdose. For fever, cold, flu, whatever-we got St. Joseph's Aspirin, and when older, adult aspirin. Children's Tylenol did not exist. I and the vast majority of children did fine. It worked as it was supposed to, and there were no problems.

When my own children were small, however, a warning appeared. It goes something like this: "Do not give to children under the age of 16 with flu or flu-like symptoms, as this product can cause a rare condition called Reye Syndrome". It seems a few individuals could be debilitated for life from a rare reaction to aspirin, when taken in childhood. So there is a warning on every aspirin label....including St. Joseph's Children's Chewable Aspirin. My children have never taken aspirin-once I found out what that syndrome was, and what it could do (no matter how small the possibility)...I elected to heed the warning. You will not see a warning on the label of an aspirin product that says "Warning: this product is toxic to animals"-even though it is...because it's not intended for use in animals.

Ever wonder, as well, why a cut within a few hours of taking aspirin or an aspirin containing product bleeds so freely and profusely and is hard to get to stop? Because it is a blood thinner that inhibits clotting as well. I was nearly 30 before I ever knew that, or saw it on any label.

We will not see a warning on an Ensure label that says: Warning..in rare animals this can cause vomiting that could be fatal in an animal with dehydration, due to product turning claylike. We won't see it because it was not designed for nor intended to give to animals. It does not mean it cannot happen. If even ONE glider could go through what mine did-I want to prevent that. It was NOT fun to watch, and I'm sure the glider didn't enjoy it either.

So since the chance is there...I will warn it is better to be safe than sorry...IF dehydration, constipation, or blockage is present or suspected...AVOID ENSURE. There are better ways to rehydrate that do not carry the risk: these include juice, pedialyte, water, nectar, gliderade, gatorade, sub cutaneous fluids. None of those present the risk that Ensure, though the vast majority of gliders likely would be fine with, if it happened can cause suffering and possibly death in the rare case.

This is my information and reasoning on this. Everyone is free to accept or reject it as they choose, but I will provide the information of what can happen so they can make an INFORMED choice. Therefore, in effect, this is my Warning Label.
_________________________
Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley

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#109365 - 06/14/06 05:37 AM Re: Ensure Question [Re: ]
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 14788
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
[:"green"]Excellent points, Jen, about warning labels & the use of human products for our precious friends... I agree that everyone needs to make their own, informed, decision.
Personally, I always recommend 50:50 liquilyte:water for gliders that are dehydrated (unless the dehydration is severe, in which case I recommend 100%, undiluted liquilyte). [When Scruffy was severely dehydrated about a month ago, I force-fed him 3.5 cc's of 100% liquilyte en route to the vet's office. By the time we got there, he was doing much better & with subcutaneous fluids, he survived. The vet told me that I saved his life by administering the liquilyte.]
Although I haven't had any problems with Ensure in the past, I will choose to heed your "warning label" and not use it for dehydrated or constipated gliders...
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