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#1102184 - 04/19/11 03:46 PM Wombaroo Powder
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
I was interested in the information found on Wombaroo's site (http://www.perfectpet.net/wombaroo/highprotein.htm)

I have been thinking this whole diet again and was really delving into some numbers. I was trying to compare the original Leadbeater's formula against some of the formulas we use today.

When looking at the Wombaroo I noticed the calcium and phosphorous was listed in grams. I thought "really?" as I had ever only seen them listed in milligrams for ANY food. So just to make sure it was NOT a typo (which we all do) I contacted them.

I was told the information on that page is full of typos and was sent a "correct" one, that had the same information on it. So I contacted the Wombaroo company in Australia.
They sent me a list as well that differed from the US one.
It is as follows: (listing nutrients we seem to talk about the most)
this is for 1 kilogram!
protein 520 grams
fat 120 grams
fiber 30 grams
vitamin C 200 milligrams
vitamin A 400 ug (micrograms)
vitamin D3 80 ug (micrograms)
vitamin K1 9 milligrams
vitamin E 70milligrams
vitamin B3 200 milligrams
vitamin B5 75 milligrams
vitamin B1 30 milligrams
vitamin B6 12 milligrams
Riboflavin 10 milligrams
vitamin B12 150 ug (micrograms)
folic acid 5 milligrams
calcium 13 grams
phosphorous 9 grams

potassium 4 grams
sodium 2 grams
magnesium 600 milligrams
iron 8 milligrams
zinc 25 milligrams
manganese 12 milligrams
copper 5 milligrams
selenium 150 ug (micrograms)

this is one reason why we need to never stop researching...
_________________________
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#1102406 - 04/20/11 03:26 AM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
Bozeman Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 2346
Loc: South Africa
Yikes!
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#1102862 - 04/21/11 01:04 AM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Oh wow.....
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Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

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#1103265 - 04/21/11 10:16 PM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Hello Jill

Geoff Schrock contacted me and asked if I would post the following from him as he is unable to sign on to GC.
As a few here may be aware, Geoff is the owner of 'Perfect Pets' and the USA importer of all the Wombaroo products. Through the years he has raised many mac's.


I am curious as to what you would think the proper amount of calcium, phosphorous, and sodium should be per kg?
Wombaroo recommends a ratio of about 1.5:1. Please understand that not all the calcium and phosphorus is available to the animal so you should be quoting the available calcium to phosphorous ratio – which involves some understanding of the chemical form in which these minerals are present in the raw ingredients. Because Wombaroo HPS Ca:P ratio appears lower than some of the other feed supplements it is being implied that Wombaroo HPS is deficient in calcium. The reality is that Wombaroo HPS has 1.3% calcium in the diet which is higher than some other quoted maximum value of 1.1%. Indeed Wombaroos HPS Phosphorus is higher, but it is not all “available phosphorus”.
Geoff
_________________________
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#1103276 - 04/21/11 10:50 PM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 2294
Loc: NY
For those of us who are not science minded, would you care to explain what all of this means for the diets that we feed using the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement powder?


Edited by WintersSong (04/21/11 10:55 PM)
_________________________
~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin

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#1103297 - 04/21/11 11:47 PM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
I may be wrong here - but I think the point Jill Marie was trying to make is that you cannot always rely on information you find on the internet or that someone tells you and we all need to continue researching and asking to be sure we are working from *correct* information and figures. I don't think she was making a comment on what *she* considers good/bad levels of anything at all.

I think she just wanted to let everyone know that the nutritional information posted on the Perfect Pets site is incorrect and the Wombaroo company sent her correct values. dunno

Looking at the two lists, there are some discrepancies;
(Perfect Pet amounts listed in blue)
this is for 1 kilogram! Per KG
protein 520 grams 540 g
fat 120 grams 130 g
fiber 30 grams
vitamin C 200 milligrams Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) 200 mg
vitamin A 400 ug (micrograms) Retinol (Vit A) 10 milligrams
vitamin D3 80 ug (micrograms) Cholecalciferol (Vit D3) 100 grams
vitamin K1 9 milligrams Phytomenadione (Vit K) 10 mg
vitamin E 70milligrams a-Tocopherol (Vit E) 75 mg
vitamin B3 200 milligrams Nicotinamide (Vit B3) 200 mg
vitamin B5 75 milligrams Pantothenic Acid (Vit B5) 75 mg
vitamin B1 30 milligrams Thiamine (Vit B1) 30 mg
vitamin B6 12 milligrams Pyridoxine (Vit B6) 12 mg
Riboflavin 10 milligrams Riboflavin (Vit B2) 10 mg
vitamin B12 150 ug (micrograms) Cyanocobalamin (Vit B12) 150 grams
folic acid 5 milligrams 5 mg
calcium 13 grams 15 g
phosphorous 9 grams 11 g
potassium 4 grams 4 g
sodium 2 grams 2 g
magnesium 600 milligrams Magnesium 800 mg
iron 8 milligrams 80 mg
zinc 25 milligrams 25 mg
manganese 12 milligrams 25 mg
copper 5 milligrams 5 mg
selenium 150 ug (micrograms) 150 grams

Originally Posted By: WintersSong
For those of us who are not science minded, would you care to explain what all of this means for the diets that we feed using the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement powder?

Nothing, unless you figured the nutritional analysis based on the information listed on the Perfect Pets website (as it is now), in which case, you would need to re-figure it.


Edited by sugarlope (04/22/11 12:18 AM)
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#1103319 - 04/22/11 02:38 AM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
Gretchen is correct. I was not implying anything. And I have much respect for the Wombaroo supplement, and tons of respect for you Pockets.

I have been doing some comparisons of diets, specifically the original leadbeaters, PML, and HPW. I did not want to use information that was "second hand" so was looking at the wombaroo page. I just had a question about it and contacted Geoff. He emailed me back and said not to use that info as it is filled with typos (HIS words, not mine) and so I contacted the company in Australia and Rich sent me back a very nice email with these figures and some tips on converting measurements. I was a little unsettled over this as that info has been up for years, and incorrect? I did not want to make a huge deal over this, I was advised to post the correct information that was sent by Rich in case other people wanted it as well.

Goeff asked me that same question
Originally Posted By: Pockets
I am curious as to what you would think the proper amount of calcium, phosphorous, and sodium should be per kg?
and I even apologized if I ruffled his feathers but explained that I didnt "think" it should be anything other than what it is and I just wanted a correct figure. Not one "filled with typos"

I publicly apologize for insulting anyone, be it Geoff, Pockets, Rich, or anyone else, but I cant see how me wanting accurate information, and sharing it with others is anything other than a good thing.

When I realized there were afew things on my own sites that needed correcting, I did it right away. I never get insulted if someone points out an error either. If fact I am grateful, as the health of my gliders is more important to me than my pride.

added: conversion links if anyone wants to use them:
http://www.highlandlighting.com/conversion.htm
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/
http://curezone.com/conversions.asp

also added:
Thank you Pockets for clarifying that information about calcium absorption, this is something we all need to know as well.

Want to add that I am feeling a slight bit defensive over sharing this.


Edited by JillMarie (04/22/11 02:52 AM)
_________________________
:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!

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#1103368 - 04/22/11 08:25 AM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
NGS
Unregistered


Jillmarie, I also do not want information filled with typos and appreciate you posting the correct information. Thank you for sharing this. smile

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#1103611 - 04/22/11 08:31 PM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 19735
Loc: in my happy place
I pushed Jill Marie to post this because I know that some people use information they find on websites because they assume that it is correct. If the information from the primary distributor's website is not correct, people in the community need to know what the correct information is.

It was not an attack on a personal or business basis, just a 'heads up' to people that may not realize they have calculated incorrectly if they used what was posted on the website.

Jill Marie has nothing to apologize for. (Thank you, Jill Marie for posting this information so that we are all aware). hug2

I believe her underlying point is that we always need to check and double- (triple-) check our information so that we know we have the correct information to work with.


Edited by sugarlope (04/22/11 10:14 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
~Gretchen
Maia & Squish
If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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#1103637 - 04/22/11 10:02 PM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3264
Loc: Northeast U.S.
Jill Marie, I know your intentions behind posting this was good and true, and I am very appreciative of now having the correct figures to work with.

I am just curious, if Geoff is aware that the page is full of typos, and that he is also aware that people probably reference his page all the time for this info as he is the main distributor of Wombaroo products here to the U.S., I'm just wondering why this information hasn't been corrected so that we all are working with the correct numbers?? I, too, assumed that the figures on his page were correct, as he has been a very reputable figure in the Wombaroo product sector, so wouldn't it be beneficial to everyone who uses these products to have the right figures? I'm not saying it as an attack, I just think I'm a little confused is all....
_________________________
Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile

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#1104279 - 04/24/11 07:44 PM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: JillMarie
Gretchen is correct. I was not implying anything. And I have much respect for the Wombaroo supplement, and tons of respect for you Pockets.

I have been doing some comparisons of diets, specifically the original leadbeaters, PML, and HPW. I did not want to use information that was "second hand" so was looking at the wombaroo page. I just had a question about it and contacted Geoff. He emailed me back and said not to use that info as it is filled with typos (HIS words, not mine) and so I contacted the company in Australia and Rich sent me back a very nice email with these figures and some tips on converting measurements. I was a little unsettled over this as that info has been up for years, and incorrect? I did not want to make a huge deal over this, I was advised to post the correct information that was sent by Rich in case other people wanted it as well.


I publicly apologize for insulting anyone, be it Geoff, Pockets, Rich, or anyone else, but I cant see how me wanting accurate information, and sharing it with others is anything other than a good thing.

When I realized there were afew things on my own sites that needed correcting, I did it right away. I never get insulted if someone points out an error either. If fact I am grateful, as the health of my gliders is more important to me than my pride.

added: conversion links if anyone wants to use them:
http://www.highlandlighting.com/conversion.htm
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/
http://curezone.com/conversions.asp

also added:
Thank you Pockets for clarifying that information about calcium absorption, this is something we all need to know as well.

Want to add that I am feeling a slight bit defensive over sharing this.




Don't be defensive when you are trying to offer accurate information.You will find anything on the net is subject to typos or actual changes. Look for instance at the taronga zoo diet's nectar mix aka leadbeaters mix where on several sites, it states that the zoo uses vionate powder as vitamins where in actual fact, vionate powder is not available here in Aus! That is just the start of a multitude of errors when it comes to gliders and their diets grin

Whilst collating some electronic documents this long weekend (up to over 3000 already!), I have a folder for wombaroo and note there are several data sheet files amongst them from different sources. When I get a few moments tonight, I will compare with interest with the information you have here with the ones I have. The Rich family sent me some of this data (lovely and helpful people indeed) so no doubt the one that they sent you is accurate.

Now as a sudden sidethought. does anyone know which data sheet the nutritional information for HPW diet was based on?



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#1104389 - 04/25/11 05:47 AM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 593
Loc: Iowa
Well, thanks for sharing the information. I understand what you're saying and appreciate the infor. Like anything else on the web, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

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#1106092 - 04/28/11 06:02 AM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: Marz]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
Agree Marz

One sure has to look into & trust their own research I have learned. Have also seen much misquoted information through the years on websites including OZ.
Happy to hear Geoff has corrected his site - as I had not visited GC in some time & was only relaying his message

Marz Des Hackett created the original Leadbeater's mix for his wonderful captive Leadbeater's - so many have incorrect information... as we both know!
_________________________
:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org

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#1106144 - 04/28/11 09:25 AM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: Pockets]
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 7748
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Pockets

Marz Des Hackett created the original Leadbeater's mix for his wonderful captive Leadbeater's - so many have incorrect information... as we both know!



It was reading the book about Des Hackett "Bred to be wild" that got me to thinking about HIS diet and wanting to more research and learn more, and get back to some diet basics and the desire to have the correct info.
_________________________
:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!

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#1106214 - 04/28/11 01:12 PM Re: Wombaroo Powder [Re: JillMarie]
Pockets Offline
Glider Slave

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 2092
Loc: Lone Star State
JillMarie hello

Peter's book was quite interesting to me, I did forward Peter a little more info about Des, as I have been researching & collecting his info for many years. Peter signed my first copy of Bred to be wild & I sent him a beautiful embroidery patch of a sugar glider I named Fred.

Not one soul could ever tell me or even knew where the original Leadbeater's mixture came from although many certainly took credit for it, even in OZ - some still do or have changed something & re-named it with no credit to Des - similar to people on this as well as other websites.

I certainly have tried to make absolute sure the correct person Des Hackett, his name is attached to his Leadbeater's mixture - it was created by him for his captive Leadbeater's possum & was taught to all Zoological parks who were lucky enough to obtain these adorable little sprites!

Is it the perfect diet, no but it has worked for many years but certainly not without a few problems (have research) but we are keeping exotics in captive situtations which is difficult if one speaks with zoological nutritionists etc.. across the globe


Edited by Pockets (04/28/11 01:17 PM)
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